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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:39 am 
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wamberal99 wrote:
As much as I despise Fox and all its works, I would assume that their polling is not confined to their audience only, but to a genuinely representative sample of the electorate at large?

Fox polls usually skew to the right by 5-10 points compared to most others. When a Fox poll shows majority support for not only impeachment but impeachment and removal, he's in deep trouble. When his electoral support starts dropping [even further], his Congressional support will start failing as well. Between Ukraine and now his abandonment of the Kurds, it looks like the tipping point has been reached.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:59 am 
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Taranaki Snapper wrote:
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Trump on the Kurds: "They didn't help us in the Second World War, they didn't help us with Normandy, as an example."

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-def ... h-normandy

But some of those Nazis were 'very fine people'.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:23 am 
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Waratah wrote:
Taranaki Snapper wrote:
Quote:
Trump on the Kurds: "They didn't help us in the Second World War, they didn't help us with Normandy, as an example."

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-def ... h-normandy

But some of those Nazis were 'very fine people'.


We live in strange times. It would be funny if it didn't look like lots of people will probably get killed now as a result. Perhaps someone should tell him which side Turkey were on in WWI, or how long they remained neutral in WWII. And which side their allies and trading Partners Japan and Germany were on in WWII.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:28 am 
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Fat Old Git wrote:
Waratah wrote:
Taranaki Snapper wrote:
Quote:
Trump on the Kurds: "They didn't help us in the Second World War, they didn't help us with Normandy, as an example."

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-def ... h-normandy

But some of those Nazis were 'very fine people'.


We live in strange times. It would be funny if it didn't look like lots of people will probably get killed now as a result. Perhaps someone should tell him which side Turkey were on in WWI, or how long they remained neutral in WWII. And which side their allies and trading Partners Japan and Germany were on in WWII.

And the only reason the Kurds weren't at Normandy was because they had bone spurs.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:14 am 
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Taranaki Snapper wrote:
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Trump on the Kurds: "They didn't help us in the Second World War, they didn't help us with Normandy, as an example."

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-def ... h-normandy


Heard that on the radio. What a despicable scumbag he is. If people think he is fit and proper, I'm afraid they are of the same ilk.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:12 am 
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There is so much dumb in Trump’s comments and even more in the bollox article he’s parroting.
Does anybody actually believe this shit?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:21 am 
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Ted. wrote:
Taranaki Snapper wrote:
Quote:
Trump on the Kurds: "They didn't help us in the Second World War, they didn't help us with Normandy, as an example."

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-def ... h-normandy


Heard that on the radio. What a despicable scumbag he is. If people think he is fit and proper, I'm afraid they are of the same ilk.


Hearing shit like this convinces me that those supporting him here are all just trolls.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:57 am 
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Kiwias wrote:
Ted. wrote:
Taranaki Snapper wrote:
Quote:
Trump on the Kurds: "They didn't help us in the Second World War, they didn't help us with Normandy, as an example."

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-def ... h-normandy


Heard that on the radio. What a despicable scumbag he is. If people think he is fit and proper, I'm afraid they are of the same ilk.


Hearing shit like this convinces me that those supporting him here are all just trolls.


He is in effect the troll in chief and isn't going away any time soon...


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:25 am 
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jamesfreeman wrote:
Kiwias wrote:
Ted. wrote:
Taranaki Snapper wrote:
Quote:
Trump on the Kurds: "They didn't help us in the Second World War, they didn't help us with Normandy, as an example."

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-def ... h-normandy


Heard that on the radio. What a despicable scumbag he is. If people think he is fit and proper, I'm afraid they are of the same ilk.


Hearing shit like this convinces me that those supporting him here are all just trolls.


He is in effect the troll in chief and isn't going away any time soon...


Maybe, maybe not.

The point stands, at least some of them are trolls. Some are loons and some are fuckwits, or a combination of the aforementioned. I'm also willing to consider that some are merely misguided, or does that put them in the loon category?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:31 am 
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jamesfreeman wrote:
Kiwias wrote:
Ted. wrote:
Taranaki Snapper wrote:
Quote:
Trump on the Kurds: "They didn't help us in the Second World War, they didn't help us with Normandy, as an example."

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-def ... h-normandy


Heard that on the radio. What a despicable scumbag he is. If people think he is fit and proper, I'm afraid they are of the same ilk.


Hearing shit like this convinces me that those supporting him here are all just trolls.


He is in effect the troll in chief and isn't going away any time soon...


Source?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:52 am 
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He is in effect the troll in chief and isn't going away any time soon...[/quote]

Source?[/quote]

The Constitution of The United States Of America and political reality. Requires 2/3rd supermajority of the US Senate to convict and remove a President from office. Also November 2020 is not soon.

This is not an endorsment of Donald Trump as President but political reality, who knows if he is really crooked more will come out and sink him but so far is not enough to get through the Senate where Mitch McConnell is saying it will be DOA (Dead On Arrival) as an impeachment as far as he is concerned.

The circus that is US Politics is going to be around for a while...


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:31 am 
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You guys have learnt nothing.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:52 am 
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Image


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:15 am 
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Boomers. :uhoh:


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:18 am 
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https://twitter.com/Liz_Cheney/status/1 ... 28997?s=19

Says it all.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:23 am 
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Taranaki Snapper wrote:
Quote:
Trump on the Kurds: "They didn't help us in the Second World War, they didn't help us with Normandy, as an example."

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-def ... h-normandy


What an absolutely plum thing to say.

Cue the usual bullshit - you guys have TDS, listen to Tucker, he doesn't actually mean what he says, you are all loons and morons, you people have learned nothing, but Andrew McCarthy said etc etc

EDIT: one down on the-defense-of-awful-shit-trump-does bingo, thanks Sen


Last edited by BokJock on Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:24 am 
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This northern Syria decision is a horrendous error of judgement.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:25 am 
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BokJock wrote:
Taranaki Snapper wrote:
Quote:
Trump on the Kurds: "They didn't help us in the Second World War, they didn't help us with Normandy, as an example."

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-def ... h-normandy


What an absolutely plum thing to say.

Cue the usual bullshit - you guys have TDS, listen to Tucker, he doesn't actually mean what he says, you are all loons and morons, you people have learned nothing, but Andrew McCarthy said etc etc


Well, what does he mean?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:30 am 
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Apparently the White House are 'surprised' at the level of military action Turkey are carrying out.

How much did Turkey help out in Normandy?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:35 am 
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I see he is now defending the cnut who killed the young lad on the motorbike and fled the country. The yanks really are becoming a rogue nation.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:36 am 
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Frodder wrote:
Apparently the White House are 'surprised' at the level of military action Turkey are carrying out.

How much did Turkey help out in Normandy?


I don't know, but Turkey is a NATO ally and last I looked that was a big deal when Trump was running down NATO.

As ever, it's not as if a decent case couldn't be constructed against the decision. ALL foreign policy decisions come with negatives, that's how it work. But the constant hypocritical reflexive inane flapping that goes on, well, best ignored.

And in this case, it's turned previous peaceniks under Bush into raving neo-cons, just to oppose Trump. As fonzee said, how about you send your kids for a change. Trumps voters are out, thanks, having done the heavy lifting in this for 30 years and no thanks other than an opioid epidemic.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:36 am 
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BlackMac wrote:
I see he is now defending the cnut who killed the young lad on the motorbike and fled the country. The yanks really are becoming a rogue nation.


Why should he do anything for the English? Where were they when the Yanks were on Normandy beach?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:38 am 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
BokJock wrote:
Taranaki Snapper wrote:
Quote:
Trump on the Kurds: "They didn't help us in the Second World War, they didn't help us with Normandy, as an example."

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-def ... h-normandy


What an absolutely plum thing to say.

Cue the usual bullshit - you guys have TDS, listen to Tucker, he doesn't actually mean what he says, you are all loons and morons, you people have learned nothing, but Andrew McCarthy said etc etc


Well, what does he mean?


I think he means, and this is just my theory mind, that he had a phone conversation with a dictator who stroked his ego so he abruptly changed American foreign policy. He is now back into a corner with even Fox and the GOP turning against him. He does not have a real answer to why he did what he did, so is just flinging feces in the hope that something sticks.

But I am just a loon and a moron so...


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:41 am 
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BlackMac wrote:
I see he is now defending the cnut who killed the young lad on the motorbike and fled the country. The yanks really are becoming a rogue nation.


To be fair, has the US ever given anyone up for judgement in a foreign jurisdiction? I'm struggling to think of an example.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:42 am 
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Jay Cee Gee wrote:
BlackMac wrote:
I see he is now defending the cnut who killed the young lad on the motorbike and fled the country. The yanks really are becoming a rogue nation.


Why should he do anything for the English? Where were they when the Yanks were on Normandy beach?


As Eddie Izzard said, we knew where Private Ryan was, they should have just asked us.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:43 am 
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zt1903 wrote:
This northern Syria decision is a horrendous error of judgement.


You guys have learnt nothing.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:44 am 
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The Man Without Fear wrote:
BlackMac wrote:
I see he is now defending the cnut who killed the young lad on the motorbike and fled the country. The yanks really are becoming a rogue nation.


To be fair, has the US ever given anyone up for judgement in a foreign jurisdiction? I'm struggling to think of an example.


that may be so, not sure but:

Quote:

What’s the purpose of the U.S.-UK extradition treaty?

•The treaty allows both the U.S. and the UK to seek justice for serious crimes affecting each of our countries and our citizens. Without such an agreement, both our countries would be unable to protect our citizens from criminals who flee our borders or commit crimes across our borders.
•The treaty also ensures that extraditions are conducted in a way that is consistent with laws of both our countries. It protects the rights of the accused while providing justice for the victims of serious crime.
•The law enforcement relationship between the United States and United Kingdom is predicated on trust, respect, and the common goals of protecting our nations and eliminating safe havens for criminals.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:47 am 
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This will define the fat fúck unless he gets to drop a few bombs on Iran


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:47 am 
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Isn't she claiming <ahem> deplamtaic ammoonity?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:49 am 
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The Man Without Fear wrote:
Isn't she abusing <ahem> deplamtaic ammoonity?


Sorted.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:06 am 
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Sinkers wrote:
There is so much dumb in Trump’s comments and even more in the bollox article he’s parroting.
Does anybody actually believe this shit?

Apparently so.

I'm a little conflicted about Trump, personally.

I've just seen on the BBC an analysis of the damage his trade war is doing to the global economy and that, together with his repeal of Obama environmental protection measures (and the placing of fossil fuel advocates in the EPA), the lives he's put at risk by granting Erdogan an opportunity to annihilate the Kurds in Syria and Putin's insurgence into Ukraine means that he must be stopped.

He clearly doesn't know what he's doing and is creating great damage.

Ideally, of course, it's up to the American people to vote him out next year, but I'm apprehensive that they will re-elect him.

The one thing that Trump has shown us is that the American Democracy is one in name only. In the hands of a more intelligent President all the supposed checks and balances are mere window dressing and, not only is the President above the law, but there is very little to actually hold him in to account. If Trump is finally brought down it will be because he pushed too far; emboldened by Mueller's watery report, he has believed that he is above the law (which, to all intents and purposes, he is), but actively seeking assistance from foreign Governments for your re-election isn't a good look.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:16 am 
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It's a funny one with no good outcome. At least in the short term.

People will die if the US pulls out. People will probably die wherever the US pulls out because the US presence is often the thing that is keeping a lid on deaths. So, should the US never pull out of anywhere? Should it stay unless peace has been established for eternity?

This is where the hypocrisy hits the road. The US is an awful neo-colonial interferer, but it should never pull out.

Of course I'm making a broad point about foreign policy and engagement and someone might say that this is about a specific instance and not a broad policy. But surely this is part of the US disengagement that has been on the policy cards for a while. And there will always have to be a first case and it will probably always be awful, but that first case awfulness has to be resisted otherwise the policy will never be enacted and the US will never withdraw.

Why doesn't the EU use its world beating clout to better effect? It's not that generous of you folks to spend American lives on your cause du jour.

This decision is understandable and difficult and has awful consequences. It doesn't follow from that that it is wrong.


Last edited by Santa on Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:18 am 
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Rinkals wrote:
Sinkers wrote:
There is so much dumb in Trump’s comments and even more in the bollox article he’s parroting.
Does anybody actually believe this shit?

Apparently so.

I'm a little conflicted about Trump, personally.

I've just seen on the BBC an analysis of the damage his trade war is doing to the global economy and that, together with his repeal of Obama environmental protection measures (and the placing of fossil fuel advocates in the EPA), the lives he's put at risk by granting Erdogan an opportunity to annihilate the Kurds in Syria and Putin's insurgence into Ukraine means that he must be stopped.

He clearly doesn't know what he's doing and is creating great damage.

Ideally, of course, it's up to the American people to vote him out next year, but I'm apprehensive that they will re-elect him.

The one thing that Trump has shown us is that the American Democracy is one in name only. In the hands of a more intelligent President all the supposed checks and balances are mere window dressing and, not only is the President above the law, but there is very little to actually hold him in to account. If Trump is finally brought down it will be because he pushed too far; emboldened by Mueller's watery report, he has believed that he is above the law (which, to all intents and purposes, he is), but actively seeking assistance from foreign Governments for your re-election isn't a good look.


Interesting. Another interpretation is the the US is a democracy and Trump hasn't really broken the laws you think he has broken.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:19 am 
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Sinkers wrote:
There is so much dumb in Trump’s comments and even more in the bollox article he’s parroting.
Does anybody actually believe this shit?


I can think of a few.....clears throat....so Santa, SOTN, ZT (spare me the unbiased sh1te) etc what's your thoughts on your dear leaders latest ? Lets put aside it being a reprehensible, completely immoral (for a normal person to do) thing to do to literally leave your allies to be slaughtered. From a purely "America first" standpoint how does this make sense ? 50 US soldiers is all that was required to keep sh1t at bay, now you have the guys that pretty much overthrew ISIS guarding them as POW's while getting attacked by the Turks - so you're basically allowing ISIS that believe me, were dead and buried now get a second chance ?....the shooting someone on 5th ave really is coming closer


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:21 am 
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ticketlessinseattle wrote:
Sinkers wrote:
There is so much dumb in Trump’s comments and even more in the bollox article he’s parroting.
Does anybody actually believe this shit?


I can think of a few.....clears throat....so Santa, SOTN, ZT (spare me the unbiased sh1te) etc what's your thoughts on your dear leaders latest ? Lets put aside it being a reprehensible, completely immoral (for a normal person to do) thing to do to literally leave your allies to be slaughtered. From a purely "America first" standpoint how does this make sense ? 50 US soldiers is all that was required to keep sh1t at bay, now you have the guys that pretty much overthrew ISIS guarding them as POW's while getting attacked by the Turks - so you're basically allowing ISIS that believe me, were dead and buried now get a second chance ?....the shooting someone on 5th ave really is coming closer


Send your troops or go yourself. Or better yet send some nice letters of condolence to the families of the 50 ( or whatever the number is). Thoughts and prayers at least.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:25 am 
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Santa wrote:
ticketlessinseattle wrote:
Sinkers wrote:
There is so much dumb in Trump’s comments and even more in the bollox article he’s parroting.
Does anybody actually believe this shit?


I can think of a few.....clears throat....so Santa, SOTN, ZT (spare me the unbiased sh1te) etc what's your thoughts on your dear leaders latest ? Lets put aside it being a reprehensible, completely immoral (for a normal person to do) thing to do to literally leave your allies to be slaughtered. From a purely "America first" standpoint how does this make sense ? 50 US soldiers is all that was required to keep sh1t at bay, now you have the guys that pretty much overthrew ISIS guarding them as POW's while getting attacked by the Turks - so you're basically allowing ISIS that believe me, were dead and buried now get a second chance ?....the shooting someone on 5th ave really is coming closer


Send your troops or go yourself. Or better yet send some nice letters of condolence to the families of the 50 ( or whatever the number is). Thoughts and prayers at least.


I'm remembering why I don't read your posts ; that makes no sense .....the perfect orange shitgibbon voter


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:26 am 
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Santa wrote:
ticketlessinseattle wrote:
Sinkers wrote:
There is so much dumb in Trump’s comments and even more in the bollox article he’s parroting.
Does anybody actually believe this shit?


I can think of a few.....clears throat....so Santa, SOTN, ZT (spare me the unbiased sh1te) etc what's your thoughts on your dear leaders latest ? Lets put aside it being a reprehensible, completely immoral (for a normal person to do) thing to do to literally leave your allies to be slaughtered. From a purely "America first" standpoint how does this make sense ? 50 US soldiers is all that was required to keep sh1t at bay, now you have the guys that pretty much overthrew ISIS guarding them as POW's while getting attacked by the Turks - so you're basically allowing ISIS that believe me, were dead and buried now get a second chance ?....the shooting someone on 5th ave really is coming closer


Send your troops or go yourself. Or better yet send some nice letters of condolence to the families of the 50 ( or whatever the number is). Thoughts and prayers at least.


These 50 troops must have been fcking rambos. They were holding the might of Johnny turk by themselves. The films must already be being commissioned. The brave platoon betrayed by Washington, the nerdy sergeant running comms having a platonic but promising budding relationship with a comely kurdish village girl whose family had been killed by evil achmed.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:31 am 
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Bowens wrote:
Flockwitt wrote:
Bowens wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
I'm sensing Trump is getting a bit of a wind on at the moment. I've said on the other thread that I couldn't see a path way to victory for him and that a sense of complete Trump fatigue and various demographic factors would work against him and Warren would win. But she has her own negatives in pretty much exactly the same zone that Trump needs in order to win again: these swing voters in mid-west / rust belt states.

More to the point, amidst all the craziness he is assembling a record that a campaign manager can really work with. This list not designed for you dear reader to agree with, but for those voters he needs, and here are some of them:

1/ good economy with very low unemployment
2/ seen to be moving on strong borders (shrieking about cages and children by libs helps amplify this)
3/ tough on Chyna - a big deal
4/ sticking it to the hated media big man style
5/ speaking in clear simple terms
6/ rolling back pc and being extremely un-pc himself
7/ building wall - bits of it definitely being built now
8/ talking about addiction (brother) - this needs much more action though
9/ doing bi-lateral trade deals as he said (Japan yesterday)
10/ This is the big one; and it will be interesting to hear what Bones says: starting to pull out of the middle east. This is the semblance of a proper strategic realist foreign policy for the first time in 30 years - or since Bush Snr uttered the phase 'new world order'. This is a long time coming - three years it's taken him, but his 'big man' inclinations are starting to come through. His instincts are to do big deals with big people and countries and build alliances and stability that way. It's a significant strategic departure from the liberal interventionist / neo conservative two sides of the same coin prevailing thinking that still dominates Washington. Most importantly, it's what the American people, and particular his swing voters, want.

So in summary, he looks a better shot than he did six months ago. He will struggle though - many people have enjoyed the fun but will be thinking fudge can we go through another four years of this?


Missed this earlier but luckily it was quoted 20 times. Yeah it will play well with exactly the voters you mention. You can put all analysis of how it makes various allies feel aside and focus on that one point. It’s going to be a net gain for him at the polls if he sticks to it.

I’ll, respectfully, contest this one. I think that was the plan but Trumps actions here have been seen in a negative light by a chunk of those base people and very wide group outside of it. I don’t think Trump will be sticking to it. From an ongoing campaigning point of view I believe this will be dropped. If he can.


I appreciate it but coming from the region that Seneca describes, his analysis is pretty spot on. We aren’t talking about traditional republicans here. Basically all of them have made their mind up on Trump (90% approve) and this won’t change it one way or the other. When Michael Moore said that Trump would win in 2016 it’s because he knew that Trump was saying a lot of the same things that working class people in that region say about trade and wars. I’m telling you the tweets he wrote about Iraq being “the worst decision we have ever made” will play well up there. I have heard people say exactly the same thing. Guys like Phil Donahue, Michael Moore, Jimmy Dore are all fairly typical of the working class foreign policy mindset up there. Most of the people are from blue collar Democrat or ex-Democrat families and lots have friends or family who serve in the military. 2016 was decided by 77,000 votes in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania and these are the voters he is reaching out to again. He will probably do some more trade related stuff to appeal to them too since that is a big issue in that region.

Alright, I see where you're coming from. I was looking at it from the perspective of another part of Trump's base, the good ol' gun toting boys who came tumbling out of the backwoods to have record turnout numbers in rural areas. Stuff that really helped in Florida and other places though I think there's aspects of this that could apply to that blue collar Dem lot as well. Trump may play the good ol' boys like a banjo, but he's not one of them and does miscalculate. Unlike him they're not limp wristed wimps and there's an aspect of what has happened in Syria that resonates I think... if you fight and die beside me, I'll be there for you buddy, is American as apple pie. And I think the point about Kurdish betrayal is going to stick to an extent. Yeah, the guys who are 100% sold on Trump come hell or high water are never going to change, but the margins are thin and this has hurt him.

When you talked to servicemen and ex-servicemen back in the day about the Vietnam war, losing was one thing, what still rankled was the South Vietnamese who were their allies who were due for the chop, and I think certain aspects of this still echo a bit in the American military psyche. Those 1000 troops who were pulled out of Syria, only to allow Turkey to charge in aren't going gosh it's great to accoladed as mission accomplished and thank you for getting us back for Christmas.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:38 am 
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Bowens wrote:
Flockwitt wrote:
Bowens wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
I'm sensing Trump is getting a bit of a wind on at the moment. I've said on the other thread that I couldn't see a path way to victory for him and that a sense of complete Trump fatigue and various demographic factors would work against him and Warren would win. But she has her own negatives in pretty much exactly the same zone that Trump needs in order to win again: these swing voters in mid-west / rust belt states.

More to the point, amidst all the craziness he is assembling a record that a campaign manager can really work with. This list not designed for you dear reader to agree with, but for those voters he needs, and here are some of them:

1/ good economy with very low unemployment
2/ seen to be moving on strong borders (shrieking about cages and children by libs helps amplify this)
3/ tough on Chyna - a big deal
4/ sticking it to the hated media big man style
5/ speaking in clear simple terms
6/ rolling back pc and being extremely un-pc himself
7/ building wall - bits of it definitely being built now
8/ talking about addiction (brother) - this needs much more action though
9/ doing bi-lateral trade deals as he said (Japan yesterday)
10/ This is the big one; and it will be interesting to hear what Bones says: starting to pull out of the middle east. This is the semblance of a proper strategic realist foreign policy for the first time in 30 years - or since Bush Snr uttered the phase 'new world order'. This is a long time coming - three years it's taken him, but his 'big man' inclinations are starting to come through. His instincts are to do big deals with big people and countries and build alliances and stability that way. It's a significant strategic departure from the liberal interventionist / neo conservative two sides of the same coin prevailing thinking that still dominates Washington. Most importantly, it's what the American people, and particular his swing voters, want.

So in summary, he looks a better shot than he did six months ago. He will struggle though - many people have enjoyed the fun but will be thinking fudge can we go through another four years of this?


Missed this earlier but luckily it was quoted 20 times. Yeah it will play well with exactly the voters you mention. You can put all analysis of how it makes various allies feel aside and focus on that one point. It’s going to be a net gain for him at the polls if he sticks to it.

I’ll, respectfully, contest this one. I think that was the plan but Trumps actions here have been seen in a negative light by a chunk of those base people and very wide group outside of it. I don’t think Trump will be sticking to it. From an ongoing campaigning point of view I believe this will be dropped. If he can.


I appreciate it but coming from the region that Seneca describes, his analysis is pretty spot on. We aren’t talking about traditional republicans here. Basically all of them have made their mind up on Trump (90% approve) and this won’t change it one way or the other. When Michael Moore said that Trump would win in 2016 it’s because he knew that Trump was saying a lot of the same things that working class people in that region say about trade and wars. I’m telling you the tweets he wrote about Iraq being “the worst decision we have ever made” will play well up there. I have heard people say exactly the same thing. Guys like Phil Donahue, Michael Moore, Jimmy Dore are all fairly typical of the working class foreign policy mindset up there. Most of the people are from blue collar Democrat or ex-Democrat families and lots have friends or family who serve in the military. 2016 was decided by 77,000 votes in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania and these are the voters he is reaching out to again. He will probably do some more trade related stuff to appeal to them too since that is a big issue in that region.


one thing I liked about Colin Powell and his thoughts on the Middle East strategy ; he said you apply the old Pottery Barn rule (large US retail operation) ; "if you broke it you buy it". Also and I doubt the orange shitgibbons geography allows for it, by getting out of the Middle East does that mean Israel ?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:42 am 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
Santa wrote:
ticketlessinseattle wrote:
Sinkers wrote:
There is so much dumb in Trump’s comments and even more in the bollox article he’s parroting.
Does anybody actually believe this shit?


I can think of a few.....clears throat....so Santa, SOTN, ZT (spare me the unbiased sh1te) etc what's your thoughts on your dear leaders latest ? Lets put aside it being a reprehensible, completely immoral (for a normal person to do) thing to do to literally leave your allies to be slaughtered. From a purely "America first" standpoint how does this make sense ? 50 US soldiers is all that was required to keep sh1t at bay, now you have the guys that pretty much overthrew ISIS guarding them as POW's while getting attacked by the Turks - so you're basically allowing ISIS that believe me, were dead and buried now get a second chance ?....the shooting someone on 5th ave really is coming closer


Send your troops or go yourself. Or better yet send some nice letters of condolence to the families of the 50 ( or whatever the number is). Thoughts and prayers at least.


These 50 troops must have been fcking rambos. They were holding the might of Johnny turk by themselves. The films must already be being commissioned. The brave platoon betrayed by Washington, the nerdy sergeant running comms having a platonic but promising budding relationship with a comely kurdish village girl whose family had been killed by evil achmed.


yup, super rambos, the best Rambos......as you well know SOTN, that's all that was required to keep Turkey out ; they know that any loss of US life (even 1 of these 50 Rambos) was not worth the risk.....or is just co-incidence that Turkey jumped within hours of these 50 leaving ?


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