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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:18 am 
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Not so subtle hint that the NH Spivs are rucking the sport.
SH fans will have some sympathy for his views I suspect....

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/ ... -game-ruin


On the same theme Sops convinced the Kiwi player drain will continue unabated.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/ ... ma-sopoaga


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:22 am 
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Everyone should have sympathy for his view. There should be a time for domestic rugby, followed by international rugby, followed by a rest period.

It just takes compromise all round and everyone will be better off.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:35 am 
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sonic_attack wrote:
Everyone should have sympathy for his view. There should be a time for domestic rugby, followed by international rugby, followed by a rest period.

It just takes compromise all round and everyone will be better off.


Bwahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

There won't be compromise, because there are too many people with vested interests pulling in different directions. Simply put, what needs to happen is that there needs to be less games. TheUnions won't allow less internationals, and the club owners won't allow less league games (and in fact, as far as I can tell, there's a reasonable faction on both sides that actually want the other to reduce their games, so that they can have more games).

I do wonder whether the players would have the balls to go on strike until it's sorted, as they are the ones that are ultimately put through the mill. However, as with all such actions, there will be people who are stable enough to take a temporary hit in pay...bt others who are on the line and need to be working.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:51 am 
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Jeff the Bear wrote:
sonic_attack wrote:
Everyone should have sympathy for his view. There should be a time for domestic rugby, followed by international rugby, followed by a rest period.

It just takes compromise all round and everyone will be better off.


Bwahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

There won't be compromise, because there are too many people with vested interests pulling in different directions. Simply put, what needs to happen is that there needs to be less games. TheUnions won't allow less internationals, and the club owners won't allow less league games (and in fact, as far as I can tell, there's a reasonable faction on both sides that actually want the other to reduce their games, so that they can have more games).

I do wonder whether the players would have the balls to go on strike until it's sorted, as they are the ones that are ultimately put through the mill. However, as with all such actions, there will be people who are stable enough to take a temporary hit in pay...bt others who are on the line and need to be working.


What must be extra galling for the SH Unions is that it is all done on borrowed money. The England Prem. as an example is mired in debt. Of the 12 teams involved only one actually balances its books, the others are 10s of millions in the Red hence why they are crawling around looking for an adventure capitol company to bail them out. That's my take anyway.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:19 am 
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Jeff the Bear wrote:
I do wonder whether the players would have the balls to go on strike until it's sorted, as they are the ones that are ultimately put through the mill..

I'm pretty cynical about this view. The players say they want less games but if they have the choice between 20 games a year for £300k, or 35 games for £550k, I know which option they are taking.

NZ players constantly whinge about the workload but then piss off to France and smash their bodies to bits for twice the pay.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:33 am 
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Yeah, good chance it will go the way of soccer. Internationals will be meaningless outside of the world cup. 6N = Euro Championships maybe, but everything else just friendly's.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:53 am 
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J Man wrote:
Jeff the Bear wrote:
I do wonder whether the players would have the balls to go on strike until it's sorted, as they are the ones that are ultimately put through the mill..

I'm pretty cynical about this view. The players say they want less games but if they have the choice between 20 games a year for £300k, or 35 games for £550k, I know which option they are taking.

NZ players constantly whinge about the workload but then piss off to France and smash their bodies to bits for twice the pay.


Rugby = anything these days = world capitalistic market = happily running faster and faster to the wall.

ooooh the analogy, oooooh the meaningless rat race... ooooh the same result...


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:08 am 
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I might be a bit tired but Pichot's warning seems really vague to me.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:13 am 
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JM2K6 wrote:
I might be a bit tired but Pichot's warning seems really vague to me.


:lol:

I'd like to agree with Jeff but his flagrant abuse of the word 'less' puts him in the same category as Gregg from the Halifax


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:33 am 
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Bayern wrote:
the others are 10s of millions in the Red hence why they are crawling around looking for an adventure capitol company to bail them out. That's my take anyway.


I nominate the newest in the pantheon of boredisms, escape goat, cabal, morones, adventure capitol (that is so fully queenstown)


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:39 am 
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blackblackblack wrote:
Bayern wrote:
the others are 10s of millions in the Red hence why they are crawling around looking for an adventure capitol company to bail them out. That's my take anyway.


I nominate the newest in the pantheon of boredisms, escape goat, cabal, morones, adventure capitol (that is so fully queenstown)


The venture would be adventurous though but with fewer games it would be less profitable.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:45 am 
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Bayern wrote:
Jeff the Bear wrote:
sonic_attack wrote:
Everyone should have sympathy for his view. There should be a time for domestic rugby, followed by international rugby, followed by a rest period.

It just takes compromise all round and everyone will be better off.


Bwahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

There won't be compromise, because there are too many people with vested interests pulling in different directions. Simply put, what needs to happen is that there needs to be less games. TheUnions won't allow less internationals, and the club owners won't allow less league games (and in fact, as far as I can tell, there's a reasonable faction on both sides that actually want the other to reduce their games, so that they can have more games).

I do wonder whether the players would have the balls to go on strike until it's sorted, as they are the ones that are ultimately put through the mill. However, as with all such actions, there will be people who are stable enough to take a temporary hit in pay...bt others who are on the line and need to be working.


What must be extra galling for the SH Unions is that it is all done on borrowed money. The England Prem. as an example is mired in debt. Of the 12 teams involved only one actually balances its books, the others are 10s of millions in the Red hence why they are crawling around looking for an adventure capitol company to bail them out. That's my take anyway.


'Borrowed' in that the owners have been funding them for decades out of their own pocket. The debt isn't to banks (with a few exceptions)


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:52 am 
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Scrummie wrote:
blackblackblack wrote:
Bayern wrote:
the others are 10s of millions in the Red hence why they are crawling around looking for an adventure capitol company to bail them out. That's my take anyway.


I nominate the newest in the pantheon of boredisms, escape goat, cabal, morones, adventure capitol (that is so fully queenstown)


The venture would be adventurous though but with fewer games it would be less profitable.


Death defying buildings, bungee jumping marble domes, tightrope spires and escher stairways... all with shat through a cat coffee.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:55 am 
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JM2K6 wrote:

'Borrowed' in that the owners have been funding them for decades out of their own pocket. The debt isn't to banks (with a few exceptions)


People just don't get it do they.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:56 am 
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JM2K6 wrote:
Bayern wrote:
Jeff the Bear wrote:
sonic_attack wrote:
Everyone should have sympathy for his view. There should be a time for domestic rugby, followed by international rugby, followed by a rest period.

It just takes compromise all round and everyone will be better off.


Bwahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

There won't be compromise, because there are too many people with vested interests pulling in different directions. Simply put, what needs to happen is that there needs to be less games. TheUnions won't allow less internationals, and the club owners won't allow less league games (and in fact, as far as I can tell, there's a reasonable faction on both sides that actually want the other to reduce their games, so that they can have more games).

I do wonder whether the players would have the balls to go on strike until it's sorted, as they are the ones that are ultimately put through the mill. However, as with all such actions, there will be people who are stable enough to take a temporary hit in pay...bt others who are on the line and need to be working.


What must be extra galling for the SH Unions is that it is all done on borrowed money. The England Prem. as an example is mired in debt. Of the 12 teams involved only one actually balances its books, the others are 10s of millions in the Red hence why they are crawling around looking for an adventure capitol company to bail them out. That's my take anyway.


'Borrowed' in that the owners have been funding them for decades out of their own pocket. The debt isn't to banks (with a few exceptions)


Oh. That makes it much better. So they've been getting free money to distort the game. Cool. :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:59 am 
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Jeff the Bear wrote:
. Simply put, what needs to happen is that there needs to be less games. The Unions won't allow less internationals, and the club owners won't allow less league games .


Pretty much. Why the hell should independently owned businesses be forced to work less, have less opportunities to make money and therefore become less competitive?

Bonkers.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:00 am 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:

Oh. That makes it much better. So they've been getting free money to distort the game. Cool. :thumbup:



The hell are you on about? They've been propping up the game not distorting it.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:01 am 
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JM2K6 wrote:
Bayern wrote:
Jeff the Bear wrote:
sonic_attack wrote:
Everyone should have sympathy for his view. There should be a time for domestic rugby, followed by international rugby, followed by a rest period.

It just takes compromise all round and everyone will be better off.


Bwahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

There won't be compromise, because there are too many people with vested interests pulling in different directions. Simply put, what needs to happen is that there needs to be less games. TheUnions won't allow less internationals, and the club owners won't allow less league games (and in fact, as far as I can tell, there's a reasonable faction on both sides that actually want the other to reduce their games, so that they can have more games).

I do wonder whether the players would have the balls to go on strike until it's sorted, as they are the ones that are ultimately put through the mill. However, as with all such actions, there will be people who are stable enough to take a temporary hit in pay...bt others who are on the line and need to be working.


What must be extra galling for the SH Unions is that it is all done on borrowed money. The England Prem. as an example is mired in debt. Of the 12 teams involved only one actually balances its books, the others are 10s of millions in the Red hence why they are crawling around looking for an adventure capitol company to bail them out. That's my take anyway.


'Borrowed' in that the owners have been funding them for decades out of their own pocket. The debt isn't to banks (with a few exceptions)


It's hardly as if the SH Unions are a model of fiscal health - if the Lions got pulled they'd be pretty f**ked as they need the income every twelve years to balance the books. You suspect that reality will bite at some point for RU as the current way of running things just doesn't seem sustainable, but it'll take a pretty big crisis given the intractability of all sides in the argument.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:05 am 
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Agustin Pichot has played professionnal rugby from 1997 to 2009 in Europe for the evil club owners.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:09 am 
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Sensible Stephen wrote:
Yeah, good chance it will go the way of soccer. Internationals will be meaningless outside of the world cup. 6N = Euro Championships maybe, but everything else just friendly's.


I don't think that comparison holds up at all - there is a significant gulf between the popularity of the international game versus the popularity of the domestic game - which doesn't exist in soccer (or is even reversed).

Football clubs actually make a profit too.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:22 am 
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Brazil wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
Bayern wrote:
Jeff the Bear wrote:
sonic_attack wrote:
Everyone should have sympathy for his view. There should be a time for domestic rugby, followed by international rugby, followed by a rest period.

It just takes compromise all round and everyone will be better off.


Bwahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

There won't be compromise, because there are too many people with vested interests pulling in different directions. Simply put, what needs to happen is that there needs to be less games. TheUnions won't allow less internationals, and the club owners won't allow less league games (and in fact, as far as I can tell, there's a reasonable faction on both sides that actually want the other to reduce their games, so that they can have more games).

I do wonder whether the players would have the balls to go on strike until it's sorted, as they are the ones that are ultimately put through the mill. However, as with all such actions, there will be people who are stable enough to take a temporary hit in pay...bt others who are on the line and need to be working.


What must be extra galling for the SH Unions is that it is all done on borrowed money. The England Prem. as an example is mired in debt. Of the 12 teams involved only one actually balances its books, the others are 10s of millions in the Red hence why they are crawling around looking for an adventure capitol company to bail them out. That's my take anyway.


'Borrowed' in that the owners have been funding them for decades out of their own pocket. The debt isn't to banks (with a few exceptions)


It's hardly as if the SH Unions are a model of fiscal health - if the Lions got pulled they'd be pretty f**ked as they need the income every twelve years to balance the books. You suspect that reality will bite at some point for RU as the current way of running things just doesn't seem sustainable, but it'll take a pretty big crisis given the intractability of all sides in the argument.


Might be something to do with having to benchmark wages to nh rates.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:22 am 
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Petrus wrote:
Agustin Pichot has played professionnal rugby from 1997 to 2009 in Europe for the evil club owners.


He says that in the article.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:23 am 
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Kid A wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:

Oh. That makes it much better. So they've been getting free money to distort the game. Cool. :thumbup:



The hell are you on about? They've been propping up the game not distorting it.


If I was to call you an idiot, would I be the first person to do so on here? Be honest.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:27 am 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
Kid A wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:

Oh. That makes it much better. So they've been getting free money to distort the game. Cool. :thumbup:



The hell are you on about? They've been propping up the game not distorting it.


If I was to call you an idiot, would I be the first person to do so on here? Be honest.


You go girl


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:31 am 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
Petrus wrote:
Agustin Pichot has played professionnal rugby from 1997 to 2009 in Europe for the evil club owners.


He says that in the article.


Where does he say taht ? He just say he has been a professional player, as McCaw has been a profesionnal player without playing in Europe.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:36 am 
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This line tickled me though:
Quote:
“The biggest problem – in business and in sport – is egos. I don’t have that problem.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:37 am 
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It doesn't have to be, 'less games', it could also be 'more players' playing.

The issue is the number of minutes the top players are playing. Leagues could say that the first four rounds of the league, each team would have to play four academy players, under the age of say, 25; they would force teams to rotate players, & give their Internationals time off. They could also mandate a maximum number of minutes played over a six game period or something.

The bottom line is that the leagues have it in their power to control the minutes played; but often they don't.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:42 am 
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Not at all surprising which country's posters support the soccer like senario and which support the more egalitarian, caring and sharing ethos.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:45 am 
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I can't make head nor tails of what his point is


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:54 am 
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Ted. wrote:
Not at all surprising which country's posters support the soccer like senario and which support the more egalitarian, caring and sharing ethos.


Load of nonsense. ^


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:55 am 
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fishfoodie wrote:
It doesn't have to be, 'less games', it could also be 'more players' playing.

.


That means more players of a lesser quality. Which devalues the product.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:02 am 
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Kid A wrote:
fishfoodie wrote:
It doesn't have to be, 'less games', it could also be 'more players' playing.

.


That means more players of a lesser quality. Which devalues the product.


Only if your academy setup is crap, & the club prefers to import crap players from the SH, & if the rules are the same for everyone, then there's a level playing field; & that's when you get exciting games !


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:05 am 
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J Man wrote:
Jeff the Bear wrote:
I do wonder whether the players would have the balls to go on strike until it's sorted, as they are the ones that are ultimately put through the mill..

I'm pretty cynical about this view. The players say they want less games but if they have the choice between 20 games a year for £300k, or 35 games for £550k, I know which option they are taking.

NZ players constantly whinge about the workload but then piss off to France and smash their bodies to bits for twice the pay.


Non internationals in France probably aren't worked to the bone. They only have club games to play so the club is able to manage their workload properly. They finish up at the beginning of June so have a proper off season and there are other breaks, I think, in the Top14 during the year. Probably why Wilkinson stopped breaking once he didn't have to juggle club and country.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:06 am 
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fishfoodie wrote:
Kid A wrote:
fishfoodie wrote:
It doesn't have to be, 'less games', it could also be 'more players' playing.

.


That means more players of a lesser quality. Which devalues the product.


Only if your academy setup is crap, & the club prefers to import crap players from the SH, & if the rules are the same for everyone, then there's a level playing field; & that's when you get exciting games !


So test matches will be of the same quality if academy players are playing in them?

No idea what you are talking about here.

You seem to have only applied the "more players" thing to domestic rugby. Which is the sort of thinking that is the root of the entire problem.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:08 am 
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Kid A wrote:
fishfoodie wrote:
It doesn't have to be, 'less games', it could also be 'more players' playing.

.


That means more players of a lesser quality. Which devalues the product.


One of the biggest reasons Ireland's strength in depth has increased is the introduction of the Italians requiring bigger squads and therefore more playing time for bringing through academy players quicker.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:09 am 
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CM11 wrote:
Kid A wrote:
fishfoodie wrote:
It doesn't have to be, 'less games', it could also be 'more players' playing.

.


That means more players of a lesser quality. Which devalues the product.


One of the biggest reasons Ireland's strength in depth has increased is the introduction of the Italians requiring bigger squads and therefore more playing time for bringing through academy players quicker.


And money. Lots and lots of money.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:11 am 
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Kid A wrote:
CM11 wrote:
Kid A wrote:
fishfoodie wrote:
It doesn't have to be, 'less games', it could also be 'more players' playing.

.


That means more players of a lesser quality. Which devalues the product.


One of the biggest reasons Ireland's strength in depth has increased is the introduction of the Italians requiring bigger squads and therefore more playing time for bringing through academy players quicker.


And money. Lots and lots of WELSH TV money.

fixed


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:13 am 
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Kid A wrote:
CM11 wrote:
Kid A wrote:
fishfoodie wrote:
It doesn't have to be, 'less games', it could also be 'more players' playing.

.


That means more players of a lesser quality. Which devalues the product.


One of the biggest reasons Ireland's strength in depth has increased is the introduction of the Italians requiring bigger squads and therefore more playing time for bringing through academy players quicker.


And money. Lots and lots of money.


:lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:16 am 
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Petrus wrote:
Agustin Pichot has played professionnal rugby from 1997 to 2009 in Europe for the evil club owners.

Doesn't make any difference, does it. He still has every right to call it as he sees it.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:33 am 
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Kid A wrote:
fishfoodie wrote:
Kid A wrote:
fishfoodie wrote:
It doesn't have to be, 'less games', it could also be 'more players' playing.

.


That means more players of a lesser quality. Which devalues the product.


Only if your academy setup is crap, & the club prefers to import crap players from the SH, & if the rules are the same for everyone, then there's a level playing field; & that's when you get exciting games !


So test matches will be of the same quality if academy players are playing in them?

No idea what you are talking about here.

You seem to have only applied the "more players" thing to domestic rugby. Which is the sort of thinking that is the root of the entire problem.


I think you need to read his post again.


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