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 Post subject: Crusaders 2020 Thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:00 am 
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Well I believe super squads are named any day now, with a February start there is only 11 weeks till the 2020 Super season. No mid year break this year and the competition runs until end of May with finals in June.

I believe the talent we have on hand should have most of the below names in the strongest squad. I'll be interested to see the AB's coaching appointment in dec and if it has any effect on Razor.

Coaches:

Head Coach - Scott Robertson
Assistant Coach - Scott Hansen
Forwards Coach - Jason Ryan
Backs Coach - Andrew Goodman

Team:

CRUSADERS 2020 SQUAD

FORWARDS: Michael Alaalatoa, Harry Allan, Scott Barrett (c), Ethan Blackadder, George Bower, Tom Christie, Whetukamokamo Douglas, Mitchell Dunshea, Cullen Grace, Billy Harmon, Sione Havili, Oliver Jager, Andrew Makalio, Brodie McAlister, Joe Moody, Luke Romano, Ethan Roots, Tom Sanders, Quinten Strange, Codie Taylor, Isi Tuungafasi.

BACKS: George Bridge, Fergus Burke, Brett Cameron, Mitchell Drummond, Ere Enari, Braydon Ennor, Leicester Faingaanuku, Inga Finau, Jack Goodhue, Bryn Hall, David Havili, Will Jordan, Manasa Mataele, Dallas McLeod, Richie Mo'unga, Fetuli Paea, Sevu Reece.

In: Sevu Reece, Dallas McLeod, Tom Christie, George Bower, Cullen Grace, Sione Havili, Brodie McAlister, Ethan Roots, Isi Tuungafasi, Fergus Burke, Inga Finau, Fetuli Paea.

Out: Tim Bateman (retired), Ryan Crotty (Japan), Israel Dagg (retired), Owen Franks (UK), Ben Funnell (Japan), Mitchell Hunt (Highlanders), Tim Perry, Ngane Punivai (Highlanders), Kieran Read (Japan), Jordan Taufua (UK), Matt Todd (Japan), Sam Whitelock (Japan sabbatical).



Draw:

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Last edited by JPNZ on Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:35 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:11 am 
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mataele should really consider joining the highlanders...


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:36 am 
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Interesting season ahead for sure - how do we cope with the loss of Read, Whitelock, Todd, Franks, Crotty, Hunt, and Taufua? That's a huge amount of experience gone, including half our starting forward pack.

Our tight-five still looks settled and will remain one of the best in the competition - Moody, Taylor, and Barrett are all established All Blacks, Alaalatoa has started plenty for us over the years, and Strange is a very promising talent. Makalio, Perry, Dunshea, and Romano are all capable backups. The big issue will be finding capable tighthead backup.

The loose forwards is my biggest area of concern. To lose Read, Todd, and Taufua in one go is huge. No team can recover from that immediately. Still, Douglas is a quality number 8 with the added incentive of the All Blacks 8 jersey being up for grabs. Blackadder is a very promising young player, and Sanders is highly capable if he can finally string some games together. 7 is more of a worry - Tom Christie is promising but still raw, while Harmon is good but not great. Personally I'd roll the dice and start the season with a Blackadder/Christie/Douglas combo, as I think Blackadder and Christie have more upside than Sanders and Harmon. Dunshea is also a potential option at 6, or even Barrett with Romano starting at lock as a stop-gap.

We're well stocked at halfback, and I expect this to be the season where Enari overtakes one, if not both, of Drummond and Hall.

Mo'unga is the incumbent All Black 10 and a genuine superstar at this level - no issues there. Losing Hunt as backup is a concern as it means Cameron has to step up.

Midfield is interesting - losing Crotty and Bateman is a lot of experience gone. If, as many predict, we go with a Goodhue/Ennor combo it'll be interesting to see how things pan out. To me, Goodhue and Ennor are both natural centres, but I can understand the logic of moving one to 12 as they're also the two most talented midfielders in our squad. Moving the incumbent All Black centre to 12 is definitely a risk, but hopefully one that pays off.

In the outside backs we have a genuine embarassment of riches - Reece and Bridge are the incumbent All Black wingers, Will Jordan looks like the All Black fullback in waiting, Havili was arguably the form fullback in Super Rugby last year, Fainga'anuku is a hugely exciting prospect, and Mataele was in outrageous form last year before he got injured. The only issue here is trying to get them all sufficient game time.

The other thing worth discussing is who captains the team - Whitelock, Todd, Read, and Crotty departing leaves a bit of a leadership vacuum. I think the four candidates are Codie Taylor, Scott Barrett, Whetu Douglas, and Jack Goodhue. Whetu Douglas ticks a lot of boxes - previous captaincy experience, nailed on first choice in his position, and we've traditionally liked loose forward captains (Read, McCaw, Blackadder). It would be a little odd to select a non-All Black as captain though, which is why I think Scott Barrett is another strong candidate. Codie Taylor is another possibility, although I'd prefer a captain that plays 80, while Jack Goodhue has been vice captain in the past, so is clearly rated as a leader. Havili has obviously captained Tasman, but I'm not a fan of fullbacks as captains, unless we go with a co-captaincy model.

Overall, after a threepeat, a huge player exodus, and potentially losing a coach a few months out from the season kicking off, I can't see us winning another title. I'd be happy with a playoff spot and young players like Ennor, Jordan, Enari, Christie, Strange, and Blackadder continuing to develop :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:33 am 
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I can't believe you have sought to usurp AC by starting a Crusader's thread!


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:44 am 
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Peteray wrote:
I can't believe you have sought to usurp AC by starting a Crusader's thread!


Totally fine with me. I don't mind who starts the annual Crusaders thread, just as long as there is one to focus chat and drive discussion :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:58 am 
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Peteray wrote:
I can't believe you have sought to usurp AC by starting a Crusader's thread!

I was thinking I almost should ask permission...
Ali's Choice wrote:
Totally fine with me. I don't mind who starts the annual Crusaders thread, just as long as there is one to focus chat and drive discussion :thumbup:


Thanks, I agree. All the fans get along down here. I'll update the OP as more details emerge.

The Brumbies just named their 2020 team, but I can't find anything about NZ sides


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:59 am 
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This could be the last year we have a “Crusaders” thread.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:05 am 
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Ali's Choice wrote:
Peteray wrote:
I can't believe you have sought to usurp AC by starting a Crusader's thread!


Totally fine with me. I don't mind who starts the annual Crusaders thread, just as long as there is one to focus chat and drive discussion :thumbup:


:nod: Cool!


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:28 pm 
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I've just heard that all the NZ Super rugby teams will be named on Tuesday 12th November.

Will update any new signings and team list in OP then.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:29 pm 
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JPNZ wrote:
I've just heard that all the NZ Super rugby teams will be named on Tuesday 12th November.

Will update any new signings and team list in OP then.


:thumbup:


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:17 pm 
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I have no expectations for our 2020 season. We have lost so much talent and more importantly so much experience that to expect anything less than a few rebuilding years would be ridiculous. And to be perfectly honest, having won the comp three years in a row, and once again established our complete and utter dominance across SANZAAR, I am happy to throw another team a sympathy title.

In saying that I think we will still be competitive in the NZ conference, as I expect all our teams to be weaker as a result of a high number of retirements and sabbaticals. There has never been a better year for an Aussie, South African or Argentine team to win the comp.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:20 pm 
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We’ll still be an extremely competitive side .

Really looking forward to going to some more games , great atmosphere.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:25 pm 
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saders will play in the final in 2020, its just a matter of who against..


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:29 am 
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Any developments on a proper stadium?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:20 am 
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Wilderbeast wrote:
Any developments on a proper stadium?


Construction is supposed to "start" towards the end of 2020 and I'd imagine from working in Commercial construction a build time of between 2 and 3 years. So 2024 Season :x

https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/business/the-rebuild/112702921/christchurch-city-council-holding-briefing-on-stadium-for-interested-contractors

Problem is no final design has yet been accepted so the start date above is worthless


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:32 am 
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Looking forward to the new season but I'll miss the old faces.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:46 am 
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With Bateman & Crotty moving on and Punivai signing with the Highlanders, does anyone know who's likely to be in the midfield mix with Goodhue and Ennor?

Punivai, Bateman, and Ennor were the main midfield options for Canterbury this year, didn't really see enough of the others to form an opinion. I hope we don't move Havili to the midfield when he's found his niche at fullback - even with Jordan coming through. Dallas McLeod played 12 for the U20s this year and I think featured in a couple of pre-season games last year, might be an option.

Maybe a chance to pinch back some Tasman reps like Aumua and/or Nankivell? Any other names coming through?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:46 am 
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JPNZ wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:
Any developments on a proper stadium?


Construction is supposed to "start" towards the end of 2020 and I'd imagine from working in Commercial construction a build time of between 2 and 3 years. So 2024 Season :x

https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/business/the-rebuild/112702921/christchurch-city-council-holding-briefing-on-stadium-for-interested-contractors

Problem is no final design has yet been accepted so the start date above is worthless


Hope you guys do a good job of it. Unfortunately, people have begun to seriously question the value of stadiums these days so it’s going to be a bit of a struggle to get something decent I think.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:47 am 
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Crusaders should threaten to relocate to Nelson if no stadium is forthcoming. Health and safety etc etc.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:11 am 
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Aumua was seriously wasted at the chiefs then Blues..he was so depressed he got fatter :P .. that said, i would like them to try and develop Mataele as a 13...i think he got the skills for that position ..would be good for the saders if they have options on the bench... seta worked great at wing and 13.. he can too..


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:49 am 
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comets wrote:
Aumua was seriously wasted at the chiefs then Blues..he was so depressed he got fatter :P .. that said, i would like them to try and develop Mataele as a 13...i think he got the skills for that position ..would be good for the saders if they have options on the bench... seta worked great at wing and 13.. he can too..


Good choice, I think he has the skills to do both. Jordan at FB and Havili to cover 12/13 as mentioned is another choice.

Will be interesting who Razor names with so many departing players, reckon we could see some big moves...


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 1:22 am 
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So much experience has been lost for 2020. I guess I cannot complain, this experience helped us win three titles in three years. But it's definitely time for rebuilding the squad at the Crusaders. No team can afford to lose the following players and expect that performance won't diminish on the field.

15.
14.
13. Ryan Crotty
12. Tim Bateman
11.
10.
9.

8. Kieran Read
7. Matt Todd
6. Jordan Taufua
5. Sam Whitelock
4.
3. Owen Franks
2.
1. Wyatt Crockett


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:59 am 
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So whats plan b if Razor goes to the AB's


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:11 am 
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TEDS wrote:
So whats plan b if Razor goes to the AB's


whoever is makos coach?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:56 am 
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TEDS wrote:
So whats plan b if Razor goes to the AB's


There is no plan because Ian Foster will be head coach of the AB's in 2020.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:37 pm 
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Is nankivell in the crusaders squad? He was the form 2nd five in npc......agree he and havili have the experence and talent to cver the role.....


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:07 pm 
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terangi48 wrote:
Is nankivell in the crusaders squad? He was the form 2nd five in npc......agree he and havili have the experence and talent to cver the role.....

He may still be signed to the Chiefs?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:04 am 
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UncleFB wrote:
terangi48 wrote:
Is nankivell in the crusaders squad? He was the form 2nd five in npc......agree he and havili have the experence and talent to cver the role.....

He may still be signed to the Chiefs?


He's at the Chiefs till 2021 from what I've read


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:37 am 
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Quote:
CRUSADERS 2020 SQUAD

FORWARDS: Michael Alaalatoa, Harry Allan, Scott Barrett (c), Ethan Blackadder, George Bower, Tom Christie, Whetukamokamo Douglas, Mitchell Dunshea, Cullen Grace, Billy Harmon, Sione Havili, Oliver Jager, Andrew Makalio, Brodie McAlister, Joe Moody, Luke Romano, Ethan Roots, Tom Sanders, Quinten Strange, Codie Taylor, Isi Tuungafasi.

BACKS: George Bridge, Fergus Burke, Brett Cameron, Mitchell Drummond, Ere Enari, Braydon Ennor, Leicester Faingaanuku, Inga Finau, Jack Goodhue, Bryn Hall, David Havili, Will Jordan, Manasa Mataele, Dallas McLeod, Richie Mo'unga, Fetuli Paea, Sevu Reece.

In: Sevu Reece, Dallas McLeod, Tom Christie, George Bower, Cullen Grace, Sione Havili, Brodie McAlister, Ethan Roots, Isi Tuungafasi, Fergus Burke, Inga Finau, Fetuli Paea.

Out: Tim Bateman (retired), Ryan Crotty (Japan), Israel Dagg (retired), Owen Franks (UK), Ben Funnell (Japan), Mitchell Hunt (Highlanders), Tim Perry, Ngane Punivai (Highlanders), Kieran Read (Japan), Jordan Taufua (UK), Matt Todd (Japan), Sam Whitelock (Japan sabbatical).


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:38 am 
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It's going to be a long season for the Crusaders. Heaps of test players leaving and no new test players arriving. This is what the pointy end of the NH player drain looks like.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:45 am 
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Updated OP, Thanks AC.

A lot of youngsters, will indeed be a tough season.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:04 am 
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JPNZ wrote:
Updated OP, Thanks AC.

A lot of youngsters, will indeed be a tough season.


In saying that, you need to rebuild sometime. And when better to do that than after winning a title three-peat? A couple of competitive but potentially unsuccessful seasons will be acceptable to Crusaders fans.

My best guess at a first choice XXIII using that squad;

15. George Bridge
14. Sevu Reece
13. Jack Goodhue
12. David Havili
11. Brayden Ennor
10. Richie Mo'unga
9. Bryn Hall

8. Whetu Douglas
7. Billy Harmon
6. Ethan Blackadder
5. Scott Barrett
4. Luke Romano
3. Mike Ala'alatoa
2. Codie Taylor
1. Joe Moody

16. Brodie McAlister
17. Harry Allan
18. George Bower
19. Quentin Strange
20. Sione Havili
21. Mitchell Drummond
22. Brett Cameron
23. Leicester Faingaanuku

Players like Tom Sanders, Ollie Jager, Billy Harmon and Ethan Blackadder need to step up this year. Big time. They have had a lot of tome and development put into them and now they need to establish themselves as bona fide Super Rugby players.

PS - I'm very happy to see Luke Romano in the squad again. And with Whitelock missing, and Strange and Dunshea still green, I expect he'll play good minutes. Especially early in the season.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:21 am 
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Scott Barrett named captain. Not a bad choice given his experience.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:47 am 
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AC, not a fan of Will Jordan?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:56 am 
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Macrosan wrote:
AC, not a fan of Will Jordan?


or manasa apparently :uhoh: :thumbdown: if bridge is ever move to fullback, manasa will get first dibs at a wing and barring injury WJ will be in the 23.. the real fight is between havili and ennor to be in the 23.


Last edited by comets on Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:59 am 
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Macrosan wrote:
AC, not a fan of Will Jordan?


I am, I just forgot about him :blush:

Which suggests that our backline is actually looking pretty good for next year. If not perhaps a little bit small/white. Which makes you think that human-tank Leicester Faingaanuku might play an important role.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:04 am 
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I'm interested in knowing where Tim Perry has gone to?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:16 am 
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JPNZ wrote:
I'm interested in knowing where Tim Perry has gone to?


I'm going to guess that he has long term injury problems and therefore they haven't given him a full contract. Tough for him, but he has been very injury prone for years.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:56 pm 
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Ali's Choice wrote:
Scott Barrett named captain. Not a bad choice given his experience.


Good choice I think. History suggests it has to be a lock or loose forward, which pretty much made it a straight shootout between Whetu Douglas and Scott Barrett. Douglas has the prior captaincy experience, but Barrett is the more established Crusader & All Black.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:58 pm 
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Ali's Choice wrote:
JPNZ wrote:
Updated OP, Thanks AC.

A lot of youngsters, will indeed be a tough season.


In saying that, you need to rebuild sometime. And when better to do that than after winning a title three-peat? A couple of competitive but potentially unsuccessful seasons will be acceptable to Crusaders fans.

My best guess at a first choice XXIII using that squad;

15. George Bridge
14. Sevu Reece
13. Jack Goodhue
12. David Havili
11. Brayden Ennor
10. Richie Mo'unga
9. Bryn Hall

8. Whetu Douglas
7. Billy Harmon
6. Ethan Blackadder
5. Scott Barrett
4. Luke Romano
3. Mike Ala'alatoa
2. Codie Taylor
1. Joe Moody

16. Brodie McAlister
17. Harry Allan
18. George Bower
19. Quentin Strange
20. Sione Havili
21. Mitchell Drummond
22. Brett Cameron
23. Leicester Faingaanuku

Players like Tom Sanders, Ollie Jager, Billy Harmon and Ethan Blackadder need to step up this year. Big time. They have had a lot of tome and development put into them and now they need to establish themselves as bona fide Super Rugby players.

PS - I'm very happy to see Luke Romano in the squad again. And with Whitelock missing, and Strange and Dunshea still green, I expect he'll play good minutes. Especially early in the season.


Do you really think they'll move Bridge, Havili, and arguably Ennor out of their 'natural' positions, rather than keeping Havili at fullback and Bridge on the wing, and using a Goodhue/Ennor midfield as in this year's final?


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