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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:15 pm 
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Toulon's Not Toulouse wrote:
It takes time and effort to switch to an unfamiliar riskier game, so you need big balls at the top to keep everyone on board. Lievremont conceded too early, PSA never tried, Noves didn't work out with the players and was undermined by upper management. I'm not convinced Brunel is the kind of character that will make it happen but we'll see over time. It doesn't help that the various french XV captains over that period seem rather passive lead-by-example type. Leading by example on the pitch is necessary, but not sufficient imho. Half the role should be about sorting out internal issues and work ethics before they become endemic, and this bit doesn't seem to be happening. In Toulon I'm happier with Basta in the job than Guirado.

All of this.

Part of the reason Hartley is still in Jones' team: he's not even close to the best hooker but he is their best capt (when he is still on the field). You should not need to lead by example because if you do, by definition some players are not giving their all and therefore should not be selected.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:17 pm 
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La soule wrote:
TheFrog wrote:
Oui, l'automne 2016 m'avait fait rêver... Je me disais que la mayonnaise commençait à prendre et qu'il ne manquait plus qu'à régler quelques petits détails... Et puis je ne sais pas ce qui c'est passé...

Au moins, avec Brunel, on n'a pas de surprise. Pas de fioriture, pas de fausses promesses...

Et en plus, les joueurs sont contents parce que l'atmosphère est meilleure que sous l'emprise du dictateur Noves...


Tu m'etonnes!! Ils peuvent se battre dans la rue au coeur de la nuit et giffler les gonzesses a l'envie!!!

Pas photo!

Pour la compo de l'equipe contre l'Italie, je pleure.

It's pitiful and if this game was in Rome, I could see France losing.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:55 pm 
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TheFrog wrote:
Oui, l'automne 2016 m'avait fait rêver... Je me disais que la mayonnaise commençait à prendre et qu'il ne manquait plus qu'à régler quelques petits détails... Et puis je ne sais pas ce qui c'est passé...

huh...


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:01 pm 
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Torquemada 1420 wrote:
It's pitiful and if this game was in Rome, I could see France losing.

it's not nearly 'pitiful'. There's good talent in there. France losing in Rome, no not to this Italy.

I'd say there's flat out too much athleticism for Italy. Guys like Poirot, Vahaamahina, Tauleigne, Camara, Grosso, Doumayrou are going to give them a hard time, and then the power of Bastareaud. Off the bench, Priso, Gomes Sa, Tao, Fickou... that's a lot of athleticism/power coming your way. They'll get dominated without France playing much to its collective ability.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:07 pm 
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Dork Lard wrote:
Torquemada 1420 wrote:
It's pitiful and if this game was in Rome, I could see France losing.

it's not nearly 'pitiful'. There's good talent in there. France losing in Rome, no not to this Italy.

I'd say there's flat out too much athleticism for Italy
. Guys like Poirot, Vahaamahina, Tauleigne, Camara, Grosso, Doumayrou are going to give them a hard time, and then the power of Bastareaud. Off the bench, Priso, Gomes Sa, Tao, Fickou... that's a lot of athleticism/power coming your way. They'll get dominated without France playing much to its collective ability.


Sounds similar to what some were saying before the Japan game...


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:32 pm 
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Torquemada 1420 wrote:
Toulon's Not Toulouse wrote:
It takes time and effort to switch to an unfamiliar riskier game, so you need big balls at the top to keep everyone on board. Lievremont conceded too early, PSA never tried, Noves didn't work out with the players and was undermined by upper management. I'm not convinced Brunel is the kind of character that will make it happen but we'll see over time. It doesn't help that the various french XV captains over that period seem rather passive lead-by-example type. Leading by example on the pitch is necessary, but not sufficient imho. Half the role should be about sorting out internal issues and work ethics before they become endemic, and this bit doesn't seem to be happening. In Toulon I'm happier with Basta in the job than Guirado.

All of this.

Part of the reason Hartley is still in Jones' team: he's not even close to the best hooker but he is their best capt (when he is still on the field). You should not need to lead by example because if you do, by definition some players are not giving their all and therefore should not be selected.


Actually, this is where I think Lancaster is vastly underrated. He has done more for England than Jones. And Jones has been reaping the rewards. Lancaster transformed the way England played rugby and made them a mighty force. They failed under pressure at the RWC but everything we see today was there already.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:34 pm 
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Dork Lard wrote:
Torquemada 1420 wrote:
It's pitiful and if this game was in Rome, I could see France losing.

it's not nearly 'pitiful'. There's good talent in there. France losing in Rome, no not to this Italy.

I'd say there's flat out too much athleticism for Italy. Guys like Poirot, Vahaamahina, Tauleigne, Camara, Grosso, Doumayrou are going to give them a hard time, and then the power of Bastareaud. Off the bench, Priso, Gomes Sa, Tao, Fickou... that's a lot of athleticism/power coming your way. They'll get dominated without France playing much to its collective ability.


Italy didn't really fear England's athleticism for 60min. And then they collapsed. But France are not fitter than Italy.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:00 pm 
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Altrad has payed 1,4 million to buy goosen from racing :lol:

I hope the spoiled plum gets croked in his first training run


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:10 pm 
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clementinfrance wrote:
Dork Lard wrote:
Torquemada 1420 wrote:
It's pitiful and if this game was in Rome, I could see France losing.

it's not nearly 'pitiful'. There's good talent in there. France losing in Rome, no not to this Italy.

I'd say there's flat out too much athleticism for Italy
. Guys like Poirot, Vahaamahina, Tauleigne, Camara, Grosso, Doumayrou are going to give them a hard time, and then the power of Bastareaud. Off the bench, Priso, Gomes Sa, Tao, Fickou... that's a lot of athleticism/power coming your way. They'll get dominated without France playing much to its collective ability.


Sounds similar to what some were saying before the Japan game...

No, I thought Japan didn't have the quality on paper France had, which I hardly think is debatable, but I'm not talking about Fr talent here I'm saying just purely the athletic ability, read that quoted list of players I've picked, there's just so much of a physical dimension in every line France don't need to put in a strong performance as a team to win. France can be bigger, stronger, more athletic than a side and still lose, but Italy don't constitute a good enough outfit to make up for those flaws (imo). It's no mystery they get 50 at every game.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:35 am 
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Any likelihood of the U20 game being broadcast?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:04 am 
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Laurent wrote:
Altrad has payed 1,4 million to buy goosen from racing :lol:

I hope the spoiled plum gets croked in his first training run


I absolutely love how Altrad doesn't give a shit. He's loaded, he knows how the game is played, and he doesn't bother with all the sainthood pretenses we see around the other loaded clubs/presidents: "we respect the salary cap", "we don't overpay the players", "everything is declared"... That latter bit is imho why he's so disliked by his peers. The more exposure he gets, the more blatant it'll become that he's far from the only one.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:08 am 
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Laurent wrote:
Altrad has payed 1,4 million to buy goosen from racing :lol:

I hope the spoiled plum gets croked in his first training run

Goosen is mehhh and trouble. Another Quade Cooper or Henjak.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:12 am 
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Torquemada 1420 wrote:
Laurent wrote:
Altrad has payed 1,4 million to buy goosen from racing :lol:

I hope the spoiled plum gets croked in his first training run

Goosen is mehhh and trouble. Another Quade Cooper or Henjak.


Trouble, for sure. But a much much much better player.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:18 am 
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Torquemada 1420 wrote:
Any likelihood of the U20 game being broadcast?

yes on France4


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:22 am 
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Laurent wrote:
Torquemada 1420 wrote:
Any likelihood of the U20 game being broadcast?

yes on France4

:thumbup:


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:35 am 
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Heymans quand tu te sors de tes disques de Jazz Fait moi signe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3L7ymfHfq0

;)


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:40 pm 
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TheFrog wrote:
Italy didn't really fear England's athleticism for 60min. And then they collapsed. But France are not fitter than Italy.
This. I have not followed Italy too closely, but I don't think France will be more athletic, fitter or more enduring.

We are obviously going into this game without the necessary talent nor of course, organized team play. We should also significantly lack pace in the backline - if we were playing England with that starting XV we'd get litteraly shread apart.. The plan vs Italy will be to revert to old style and try to run over them. I don't think it will work and we may be in for a very close game.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:20 pm 
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Xupi wrote:
TheFrog wrote:
Italy didn't really fear England's athleticism for 60min. And then they collapsed. But France are not fitter than Italy.
This. I have not followed Italy too closely, but I don't think France will be more athletic, fitter or more enduring.

We are obviously going into this game without the necessary talent nor of course, organized team play. We should also significantly lack pace in the backline - if we were playing England with that starting XV we'd get litteraly shread apart.. The plan vs Italy will be to revert to old style and try to run over them. I don't think it will work and we may be in for a very close game.

Seriously hope we get hockeyed.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:28 pm 
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Laurent wrote:
Seriously hope we get hockeyed.
I hope first and foremost for a good game of rugby to watch, just like I thought SCO vs FRA was. And of course I will support our boys, whatever the situation or the quality of play.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:30 pm 
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Xupi wrote:
Laurent wrote:
Seriously hope we get hockeyed.
I hope first and foremost for a good game of rugby to watch, just like I thought SCO vs FRA was. And of course I will support our boys, whatever the situation or the quality of play.

Won't be watching so don't care about the quality

Training is at 8 friday So I'll be trying to shake my cold by going outside... :lol:

and hope they don't cancel training to watch (they need to train)


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:35 pm 
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Laurent wrote:
Training is at 8 friday So I'll be trying to shake my cold by going outside... :lol:

and hope they don't cancel training to watch (they need to train)
Ah you're still playing, good :thumbup: I've stopped completely, too old. Played indoor futsal for the past 2 years but managed to get injured twice. I am now dedicating my few hours of free time to cycling, which I adore ! L'Ariégeoise is my objective this season...


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:42 pm 
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Xupi wrote:
Laurent wrote:
Training is at 8 friday So I'll be trying to shake my cold by going outside... :lol:

and hope they don't cancel training to watch (they need to train)
Ah you're still playing, good :thumbup: I've stopped completely, too old. Played indoor futsal for the past 2 years but managed to get injured twice. I am now dedicating my few hours of free time to cycling, which I adore ! L'Ariégeoise is my objective this season...

No Not playing I can't old age and no cruciates left.

I am trying to help my local club though


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:54 pm 
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Laurent wrote:
Heymans quand tu te sors de tes disques de Jazz Fait moi signe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3L7ymfHfq0

;)



Tres bon :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:04 pm 
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Tu connais transperfect?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:41 pm 
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Xupi wrote:
have not followed Italy too closely, but I don't think France will be more athletic, fitter or more enduring.


Wait, just... just... have a proper look at this, closely, just to be sure for a second here:

Image


You say the side on the left doesn't have an athletic/power advantage from 1 to 23 over the side on the right. Would you hold onto that statement after review ?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:47 pm 
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Dork Lard wrote:
You say the side on the left doesn't have an athletic/power advantage from 1 to 23 over the side on the right. Would you hold onto that statement after review ?
A few month ago we have been kept in check (if not more) by a Japanese side which most thought, because of their inferior size and weight, we would demolish physically. So yes I stand by my arguments that the current French are inferior athletes (speed, cardio, endurance, general skills) to the other major nations. They may have bulk, but that it seems is not enough. A guy like Picamoles for example, is completely out of his depth right now.

Again I have not followed Italy too closely but I expect them to be as usual: physical, solid skills, very combative but lacking fitness in the last 20'. Except we won't outpace them.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:31 am 
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Dork Lard wrote:
Xupi wrote:
have not followed Italy too closely, but I don't think France will be more athletic, fitter or more enduring.


Wait, just... just... have a proper look at this, closely, just to be sure for a second here:


You say the side on the left doesn't have an athletic/power advantage from 1 to 23 over the side on the right. Would you hold onto that statement after review ?

Italy trained by Connor O'Shea versus France trained by anyone?

This will be even stevens. Both sides will run out of gas by 60 and the one who plays the better territorial game will win.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:19 pm 
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Torquemada 1420 wrote:
Dork Lard wrote:
Xupi wrote:
have not followed Italy too closely, but I don't think France will be more athletic, fitter or more enduring.


Wait, just... just... have a proper look at this, closely, just to be sure for a second here:


You say the side on the left doesn't have an athletic/power advantage from 1 to 23 over the side on the right. Would you hold onto that statement after review ?

Italy trained by Connor O'Shea versus France trained by anyone?

This will be even stevens. Both sides will run out of gas by 60 and the one who plays the better territorial game will win.

What I'm saying is it's impossible to overlook the athletic superiority of the French. Bastareaud makes one good carry, ONE good carry, and the Italy defense is compromised, that's 7pts, just like that. Grosso, one trademark powerful run and it's virtually a try. Tauleigne is 110kilo + and dynamic, Poirot same. Doumayrou, Fickou or Bonneval are some of the least expected threats, and they've got serious legs. Speaking of legs, Couilloud can produce a try on his own vs a tired Italian defense in the 2nd half, you've seen the kid ball in hand I'm sure. Look at the bench as a whole again, the physical dimension there. Even Trinh-Duc in this kind of game is not a negligible talent ball in hand.

Italy are going to have their hands full and can lose the plot in one or two plays, that easily, caused by the French individual strength; is what I'm saying. They're the least athletic by far in the tournament, and they can't recover from, if they occur, 2 french tries. Other teams can. And they probably can't threaten France after the 65th minute if they're trailing by then, because France will have so much more quality on paper it's going to pay immediate dividends in that last quarter.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:21 pm 
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T'as regarder un match de l'equipe de France dernierement???

Utopia


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:28 pm 
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La soule wrote:
T'as regarder un match de l'equipe de France dernierement???

Utopia


:lol:

You got to admit he does the blind faith thing rather well though, and it's refreshing amidst the general doom and gloom.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:09 pm 
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Dork Lard wrote:
What I'm saying is it's impossible to overlook the athletic superiority of the French. Bastareaud makes one good carry, ONE good carry, and the Italy defense is compromised, that's 7pts, just like that. Grosso, one trademark powerful run and it's virtually a try. Tauleigne is 110kilo + and dynamic, Poirot same. Doumayrou, Fickou or Bonneval are some of the least expected threats, and they've got serious legs. Speaking of legs, Couilloud can produce a try on his own vs a tired Italian defense in the 2nd half, you've seen the kid ball in hand I'm sure. Look at the bench as a whole again, the physical dimension there. Even Trinh-Duc in this kind of game is not a negligible talent ball in hand.

Italy are going to have their hands full and can lose the plot in one or two plays, that easily, caused by the French individual strength; is what I'm saying. They're the least athletic by far in the tournament, and they can't recover from, if they occur, 2 french tries. Other teams can. And they probably can't threaten France after the 65th minute if they're trailing by then, because France will have so much more quality on paper it's going to pay immediate dividends in that last quarter.


:roll:

Bastareaud makes one good carry, goes to ground, ruck, ball buried, 3s later, ball is out but the Italian defense is reorganised. Been there, seen this... And Bastareaud can't follow the rest of the back line when there is a break, which is an obvious weakness. When Armitage was playing for Toulon, he was the one playing Bastareaud's role to finish the action after his winger broke the line... Bastareaud was back 30m.

This game is going to be a bore fest, France can win it, but not easily. It will be a ruck war.

Couilloud is good though.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:10 pm 
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Just chatted with a friend who is a former top level rugby player... He just said "so, you're lining up Bastareaud. Tonight is going to be a league game". Sums it up.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:22 pm 
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Meh. He doesn't have the pace/fitness to be on the shoulder of a fast runner breaking the line in the last 20 minutes of a game and shouldn't be left defending in space 1v1 against a nimble runner, but Basta can carry, pass, crash the ball taking 2/3 defenders with him, half-decently offload, occasionally kick, and, more preciously, he can steal the ball at the ruck. He also rarely disappoints in terms of effort. Considering France isn't exactly awash in world-class centres or turnover specialists and that I'd be surprised if anyone broke the line in the first place, he's as good an option as any other we've seen so far.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:15 pm 
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Toulon's Not Toulouse wrote:
Meh. He doesn't have the pace/fitness to be on the shoulder of a fast runner breaking the line in the last 20 minutes of a game and shouldn't be left defending in space 1v1 against a nimble runner, but Basta can carry, pass, crash the ball taking 2/3 defenders with him, half-decently offload, occasionally kick, and, more preciously, he can steal the ball at the ruck. He also rarely disappoints in terms of effort. Considering France isn't exactly awash in world-class centres or turnover specialists and that I'd be surprised if anyone broke the line in the first place, he's as good an option as any other we've seen so far.


I don't doubt Bastareaud's commitment and he has often been one of the more dedicated players on the pitch for France. He is good to provide 2/3 turn-overs per game as well.

But he is awefully limited and at international level, he doesn't have the impact he may have in the Top14.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:09 pm 
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TheFrog wrote:
Toulon's Not Toulouse wrote:
Meh. He doesn't have the pace/fitness to be on the shoulder of a fast runner breaking the line in the last 20 minutes of a game and shouldn't be left defending in space 1v1 against a nimble runner, but Basta can carry, pass, crash the ball taking 2/3 defenders with him, half-decently offload, occasionally kick, and, more preciously, he can steal the ball at the ruck. He also rarely disappoints in terms of effort. Considering France isn't exactly awash in world-class centres or turnover specialists and that I'd be surprised if anyone broke the line in the first place, he's as good an option as any other we've seen so far.


I don't doubt Bastareaud's commitment and he has often been one of the more dedicated players on the pitch for France. He is good to provide 2/3 turn-overs per game as well.

But he is awefully limited and at international level, he doesn't have the impact he may have in the Top14.


Absolutely.

He rarely gets less than 10 out of 10 for effort and what he does he tends to do very well, but he's just too limited for a modern centre...


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:54 pm 
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clementinfrance wrote:
TheFrog wrote:
Toulon's Not Toulouse wrote:
Meh. He doesn't have the pace/fitness to be on the shoulder of a fast runner breaking the line in the last 20 minutes of a game and shouldn't be left defending in space 1v1 against a nimble runner, but Basta can carry, pass, crash the ball taking 2/3 defenders with him, half-decently offload, occasionally kick, and, more preciously, he can steal the ball at the ruck. He also rarely disappoints in terms of effort. Considering France isn't exactly awash in world-class centres or turnover specialists and that I'd be surprised if anyone broke the line in the first place, he's as good an option as any other we've seen so far.


I don't doubt Bastareaud's commitment and he has often been one of the more dedicated players on the pitch for France. He is good to provide 2/3 turn-overs per game as well.

But he is awefully limited and at international level, he doesn't have the impact he may have in the Top14.


Absolutely.

He rarely gets less than 10 out of 10 for effort and what he does he tends to do very well, but he's just too limited for a modern centre...

He'd be very limited if he played in the forwards as well.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:42 pm 
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This could become Dork's own Hey Theo.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:51 pm 
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Torquemada 1420 wrote:
This could become Dork's own Hey Theo.


Part of me hopes so, in order to quicken the decline and maybe bring about drastic change that would ensure a far brighter future for French rugby.

Having said this we'll probably scrape a win and simply further prolong the agony.

:|


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:59 pm 
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clementinfrance wrote:
Torquemada 1420 wrote:
This could become Dork's own Hey Theo.


Part of me hopes so, in order to quicken the decline and maybe bring about drastic change that would ensure a far brighter future for French rugby.

Having said this we'll probably scrape a win and simply further prolong the agony.

:|

Sadly true.

I was so disinterested, I didn't even know it was on tonight.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:05 pm 
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Not 3 minutes and a first Basta turnover. :smug:


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