Planet Rugby Forum

Torquemada 1420 wrote:

TheFrog wrote:

GDBFC99 wrote:

TheFrog wrote:Anyhow, all these talks about corrupt FFR leaders and no more rugby... So sad...

We're facing Scotland. How can we beat them? How can they beat us?

Score more points (works both ways).

an article by Merdol:

https://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/xv-de-fr ... tory.shtml

I actually disagree that the team lacked players who can break the advantage line. Players like Poirot, Guirado, Vahaamahina, Gourdon, Belleau, Lamerat, Wakatawa or Thomas can do this, either though sheer power or elusive running.

Hmm. Kinda agree. The one attacking thing Fra has had throughout this malaise is what you say: in fact, the 2 even more capable are Pica and Galan.

BUT the problem is we are talking breaking the gainline using force and that is considerably harder to do against well organised defences when you get slow ball. And this ignores the really useful gainline breaks: running into space. Other than Thomas, I suspect no-one beat a single defender on Sat.

15 defenders beaten last week, 6 by Thomas, 5 by Vakatawa.

Centre of attention
Remi Lamerat and Henry Chavancy were the epitome of France’s solidity in defence and blunt attack. The centres combined for 24 tackles attempts, only missing 1. Chavancy in particular was a peripheral figure when Les Bleus had the ball in hand though, carrying 4 times for just 1 metre. If he maintains that level of not being a credible threat going forward it will make it easier for the Scottish defence to target the men inside and outside him.

Would be interesting if Scotland make the mistake to give Chavancy some space. Hope the French adapt and instead of looking for the wingers systematically, they go through the center.

Source: https://www.scottishrugbyblog.co.uk/201 ... h-preview/

I wish we could get that quality of journalism in France.

As long as France carry around a JBE for attacks coach, they won't reach a level that is acceptable for Test Rugby with their gainline success anyways. You can throw in this or that or this player, it might help for a given game but the focus is again so much on the individual, where the problem is certainly elsewhere.

More particularly, against Scotland for me though, obviously they should start Macalou and Picamoles, how could that possibly be a bad idea ??.. and Danty at 12. If you want some gainline success, you're gonna want to start those three not Camara and a jittery Doumayrou, Jacques..

Potentially, according to rumours:


1. Poirot
2. Guirado (c)
3. Slimani
4. Vahaamahina
5. Gabrillagues
6. Camara
7. Gourdon
8. Tauleigne
9. Machenaud
10. Beauxis
11. Vakatawa
12. Lamerat
13. Doumayrou
14. Thomas
15. Palis

16. Pélissier, 17. Priso, 18. Gomez SA, 19. Iturria, 20. Lauret, 21. Couilloud, 22. Belleau, 23. Fall

TheFrog wrote:Potentially, according to rumours:


1. Poirot
2. Guirado (c)
3. Slimani
4. Vahaamahina
5. Gabrillagues
6. Camara
7. Gourdon
8. Tauleigne
9. Machenaud
10. Beauxis
11. Vakatawa
12. Lamerat
13. Doumayrou
14. Thomas
15. Palis

16. Pélissier, 17. Priso, 18. Gomez SA, 19. Iturria, 20. Lauret, 21. Couilloud, 22. Belleau, 23. Fall

I hope it rains ...

Personally I'm happy in anticipation to watch this game. Given the complexion of the match round 1 was a performance with a positive feel. If only the players can withstand and cancel out the crushing disappointment, they've got something to build on.

Under Noves, the first tournament was horrendous but the June tour had that large victory, after that it felt if France regrouped they now had something to work on. I've got that feeling, may be wrong, hope not, right now about watching this xv de France. There are too many weights dragging it down, but this is a team that I feel I can get behind, and really actually support again. Even under PSA, the possibility of winning matchday test was lurking and did actually occur.
I think this point is essential: the supporter needs to feel instinctively, from the inside, like there's reason to watch the game. It's what the french fan had following the 2011RWC knock out stages. I feel that right now for Scotland, I feel France have the resources to actually win it and wouldn't be surprised if they did, or at least come close.

The sad situation is that the country with the richest rugby pro league is considered the underdog when coming up against a country that has only 2 professional teams.

TheFrog wrote:The sad situation is that the country with the richest rugby pro league is considered the underdog when coming up against a country that has only 2 professional teams.

It is beyond sad. Ranked 10th in the world is just not acceptable with the resources available. A bit of make-up wont this time though.

They have 5 years to turn things around.

Laurent wrote:

TheFrog wrote:Potentially, according to rumours:


1. Poirot
2. Guirado (c)
3. Slimani
4. Vahaamahina
5. Gabrillagues
6. Camara
7. Gourdon
8. Tauleigne
9. Machenaud
10. Beauxis
11. Vakatawa
12. Lamerat
13. Doumayrou
14. Thomas
15. Palis

16. Pélissier, 17. Priso, 18. Gomez SA, 19. Iturria, 20. Lauret, 21. Couilloud, 22. Belleau, 23. Fall

I hope it rains ...

Tauleigne with potential flu... I blame those who just joined the group. Yionel!!!

Seriously, I feel sorry for Marco, he's a powerhouse with a really good offload.

Dork Lard wrote:As long as France carry around a JBE for attacks coach, they won't reach a level that is acceptable for Test Rugby with their gainline success anyways. You can throw in this or that or this player, it might help for a given game but the focus is again so much on the individual, where the problem is certainly elsewhere.

More particularly, against Scotland for me though, obviously they should start Macalou and Picamoles, how could that possibly be a bad idea ??.. and Danty at 12. If you want some gainline success, you're gonna want to start those three not Camara and a jittery Doumayrou, Jacques..

During the opening matches of the 6 Nations France had the lowest returns across all the main attacking stats – passes, carries, metres run, defenders beaten. The only figure they didn’t come bottom on was clean breaks where a paltry 2 was more than Ireland’s nil.

I think you are being a bit biased here Torque. France only had 32% possession, gained a lot of ground on the rare attacks the launched wide. But the way the game was played, there was little for the backs to express their talent.

Meanwhile, at Rugbyrama, the leading article is about the 2004 game... That's how desperate they are to find something positive to print.

Interesting article in today's L'Equipe about how the SRU bloods young prospects who can't get first team rugby in a pro club in Scotland by sending them to Nice in Federal 2. They have an agreement with Nice that works well for both parties. Why doesn't the FFR do that with Federal 1 and Pro D2 clubs. Select a group of 15 young prospects, put them on a federal contract and make them available for free in several clubs?

BOD getting trolled by the Boucherie crowd after daring to doubt Yionel!

https://twitter.com/BrianODriscoll/stat ... 8784897029

Toulon's Not Toulouse wrote:BOD getting trolled by the Boucherie crowd after daring to doubt Yionel!

https://twitter.com/BrianODriscoll/stat ... 8784897029

U20 HT
Sco 0 v 33 Fra

Weak opponents but on an artificial surface, so far this is one of the most complete performances I've ever seen from a Fre team.

Toulon's Not Toulouse wrote:BOD getting trolled by the Boucherie crowd after daring to doubt Yionel!

https://twitter.com/BrianODriscoll/stat ... 8784897029

GDBFC99 wrote:

Toulon's Not Toulouse wrote:BOD getting trolled by the Boucherie crowd after daring to doubt Yionel!

https://twitter.com/BrianODriscoll/stat ... 8784897029

19-69 final score.

A little bit of silliness and a lineout weakness allowed the Scots some reprieve (sub hooker had a bit of a 'mare) but a stunning performance nonetheless. Sco bummed again at this level which shows that despite all the other arguments, Fra has enough decent players at this level. It's just when T14 and Fre coaches get a real hand on them that they will lose to Scotland when they meet again in 3 or 4 years.

THIS was Scotland’s heaviest ever defeat against France at this age-grade

Torquemada 1420 wrote:

GDBFC99 wrote:

Toulon's Not Toulouse wrote:BOD getting trolled by the Boucherie crowd after daring to doubt Yionel!

https://twitter.com/BrianODriscoll/stat ... 8784897029

alors, expliquez moi un truc... vu que j'ai pas de réseau social machin de la merde quoi... c'est des vrais trucs ça ? o'driscol, galthié et cie, et des mecs lambda, tout ce beau monde se troll en public ?
C'est les vrais mecs et les vrais ... hmmm... argh... euhh... "conversations" ??

Si oui, putain mais comme je fais bien de me tenir loin de tout ça. RI-DI-CULE (voir le film éponyme, mais worldwide, permanent et temps-réel maintenant donc).

?????????????????????

jolindien wrote:

Torquemada 1420 wrote:

GDBFC99 wrote:

Toulon's Not Toulouse wrote:BOD getting trolled by the Boucherie crowd after daring to doubt Yionel!

https://twitter.com/BrianODriscoll/stat ... 8784897029

alors, expliquez moi un truc... vu que j'ai pas de réseau social machin de la merde quoi... c'est des vrais trucs ça ? o'driscol, galthié et cie, et des mecs lambda, tout ce beau monde se troll en public ?
C'est les vrais mecs et les vrais ... hmmm... argh... euhh... "conversations" ??

Si oui, putain mais comme je fais bien de me tenir loin de tout ça. RI-DI-CULE (voir le film éponyme, mais worldwide, permanent et temps-réel maintenant donc).

?????????????????????

Just some lads having a craic.

ok, donc ça veut dire pas les vrais types c'est ça ??

en fait on peut créer n'importe quel pseudo pour 2 secondes de connerie ou quoi ?

Torquemada 1420 wrote:19-69 final score.

A little bit of silliness and a lineout weakness allowed the Scots some reprieve (sub hooker had a bit of a 'mare) but a stunning performance nonetheless. Sco bummed again at this level which shows that despite all the other arguments, Fra has enough decent players at this level. It's just when T14 and Fre coaches get a real hand on them that they will lose to Scotland when they meet again in 3 or 4 years.

THIS was Scotland’s heaviest ever defeat against France at this age-grade

This is not meant as an insult to anyone, but there's no two ways about it: it's stupid, just plain stupid... to think France has lacked talent since their post-2011 crisis. At any level. You tune in to watch French Rugby, whatever it is, Top14, Challenge Cup, Champions Cup, U20, women, Six Nations... there are top level props and hookers, huge dominant packs, talented halfbacks, and an abundance of talented players in the backlines, and whenever a big name player goes down, you tune in the next week to find another just as good, and then 5 more big injuries and then 5 more names pop out of nowhere and there's no net drop in level. There's been countless cases during that 6-7 year span when a first choice player has gone down and another player came in as replacement and all of a sudden the fans now wanted that guy to be first choice.

Throw in foreign technicians who can harness the potential and you're good. It starts, and stops there. It just does.
Yesterday just another day at the office for French talent, it just worked out particularly well this time but nothing new.

Dork Lard wrote:

Torquemada 1420 wrote:19-69 final score.

A little bit of silliness and a lineout weakness allowed the Scots some reprieve (sub hooker had a bit of a 'mare) but a stunning performance nonetheless. Sco bummed again at this level which shows that despite all the other arguments, Fra has enough decent players at this level. It's just when T14 and Fre coaches get a real hand on them that they will lose to Scotland when they meet again in 3 or 4 years.

THIS was Scotland’s heaviest ever defeat against France at this age-grade

This is not meant as an insult to anyone, but there's no two ways about it: it's stupid, just plain stupid... to think France has lacked talent since their post-2011 crisis. At any level. You tune in to watch French Rugby, whatever it is, Top14, Challenge Cup, Champions Cup, U20, women, Six Nations... there are top level props and hookers, huge dominant packs, talented halfbacks, and an abundance of talented players in the backlines, and whenever a big name player goes down, you tune in the next week to find another just as good, and then 5 more big injuries and then 5 more names pop out of nowhere and there's no net drop in level. There's been countless cases during that 6-7 year span when a first choice player has gone down and another player came in as replacement and all of a sudden the fans now wanted that guy to be first choice.

Throw in foreign technicians who can harness the potential and you're good. It starts, and stops there. It just does.
Yesterday just another day at the office for French talent, it just worked out particularly well this time but nothing new.

vous allez pas le croire, mais j'ai lu "and an ambulance of talented players in the backlines"

Shirley the French U20s are coached by, um, French coaches?

jolindien wrote:

Dork Lard wrote:

Torquemada 1420 wrote:19-69 final score.

A little bit of silliness and a lineout weakness allowed the Scots some reprieve (sub hooker had a bit of a 'mare) but a stunning performance nonetheless. Sco bummed again at this level which shows that despite all the other arguments, Fra has enough decent players at this level. It's just when T14 and Fre coaches get a real hand on them that they will lose to Scotland when they meet again in 3 or 4 years.

THIS was Scotland’s heaviest ever defeat against France at this age-grade

This is not meant as an insult to anyone, but there's no two ways about it: it's stupid, just plain stupid... to think France has lacked talent since their post-2011 crisis. At any level. You tune in to watch French Rugby, whatever it is, Top14, Challenge Cup, Champions Cup, U20, women, Six Nations... there are top level props and hookers, huge dominant packs, talented halfbacks, and an abundance of talented players in the backlines, and whenever a big name player goes down, you tune in the next week to find another just as good, and then 5 more big injuries and then 5 more names pop out of nowhere and there's no net drop in level. There's been countless cases during that 6-7 year span when a first choice player has gone down and another player came in as replacement and all of a sudden the fans now wanted that guy to be first choice.

Throw in foreign technicians who can harness the potential and you're good. It starts, and stops there. It just does.
Yesterday just another day at the office for French talent, it just worked out particularly well this time but nothing new.

vous allez pas le croire, mais j'ai lu "and an ambulance of talented players in the backlines"

Clouseau wrote:Shirley the French U20s are coached by, um, French coaches?

let's see here...
remember this ?



look at the tries scored, the times Yep, statistically, that's a French-coached team alright, yes sirrrrr indeed positively.

Dork Lard wrote:

jolindien wrote:

Dork Lard wrote:

Torquemada 1420 wrote:19-69 final score.

A little bit of silliness and a lineout weakness allowed the Scots some reprieve (sub hooker had a bit of a 'mare) but a stunning performance nonetheless. Sco bummed again at this level which shows that despite all the other arguments, Fra has enough decent players at this level. It's just when T14 and Fre coaches get a real hand on them that they will lose to Scotland when they meet again in 3 or 4 years.

THIS was Scotland’s heaviest ever defeat against France at this age-grade

This is not meant as an insult to anyone, but there's no two ways about it: it's stupid, just plain stupid... to think France has lacked talent since their post-2011 crisis. At any level. You tune in to watch French Rugby, whatever it is, Top14, Challenge Cup, Champions Cup, U20, women, Six Nations... there are top level props and hookers, huge dominant packs, talented halfbacks, and an abundance of talented players in the backlines, and whenever a big name player goes down, you tune in the next week to find another just as good, and then 5 more big injuries and then 5 more names pop out of nowhere and there's no net drop in level. There's been countless cases during that 6-7 year span when a first choice player has gone down and another player came in as replacement and all of a sudden the fans now wanted that guy to be first choice.

Throw in foreign technicians who can harness the potential and you're good. It starts, and stops there. It just does.
Yesterday just another day at the office for French talent, it just worked out particularly well this time but nothing new.

vous allez pas le croire, mais j'ai lu "and an ambulance of talented players in the backlines"

Clouseau wrote:Shirley the French U20s are coached by, um, French coaches?

let's see here...
remember this ?



look at the tries scored, the times Yep, statistically, that's a French-coached team alright, yes sirrrrr indeed positively.

haha genre 0-33 en quasi 1ère mit-temps et 26-3 en se réveillant après la bataille.

Clouseau wrote:Shirley the French U20s are coached by, um, French coaches?

Perhaps in France you are not familiar with the 19C onwards thinking on human development? The one that says nurture has a greater impact with increased exposure? To the point where you can take a raw talent and make him into an automaton (join the army) or at the other extreme, a free thinker.

So, in case it's hard to grasp, if you eat one or two turds, you might escape with a bit of food poisoning and recover. Eat years of turds and you either die or become a turd.

Torquemada 1420 wrote:

Clouseau wrote:Shirley the French U20s are coached by, um, French coaches?

Perhaps in France you are not familiar with the 19C onwards thinking on human development? The one that says nurture has a greater impact with increased exposure? To the point where you can take a raw talent and make him into an automaton (join the army) or at the other extreme, a free thinker.

So, in case it's hard to grasp, if you eat one or two turds, you might escape with a bit of food poisoning and recover. Eat years of turds and you either die or become a turd.

c'est vrai, j'ai vu un reportage l'autre jour où ils disaient que la césarienne aboutissait à avoir des enfants avec moins de défenses immunitaires car ils n'étaient du coup pas "infestés" par toutes les saloperies qu'on peu trouver dans "la chatte à leur mère".

je vulgarise un peu, mais c'est quoi ils disaient.

bien vu torq.

Torquemada 1420 wrote:

Clouseau wrote:Shirley the French U20s are coached by, um, French coaches?

Perhaps in France you are not familiar with the 19C onwards thinking on human development? The one that says nurture has a greater impact with increased exposure? To the point where you can take a raw talent and make him into an automaton (join the army) or at the other extreme, a free thinker.

So, in case it's hard to grasp, if you eat one or two turds, you might escape with a bit of food poisoning and recover. Eat years of turds and you either die or become a turd.

Thanks for the lecture.

Clouseau wrote:

Torquemada 1420 wrote:

Clouseau wrote:Shirley the French U20s are coached by, um, French coaches?

Perhaps in France you are not familiar with the 19C onwards thinking on human development? The one that says nurture has a greater impact with increased exposure? To the point where you can take a raw talent and make him into an automaton (join the army) or at the other extreme, a free thinker.

So, in case it's hard to grasp, if you eat one or two turds, you might escape with a bit of food poisoning and recover. Eat years of turds and you either die or become a turd.

Thanks for the lecture.

De rien.

jolindien wrote:ok, donc ça veut dire pas les vrais types c'est ça ??

en fait on peut créer n'importe quel pseudo pour 2 secondes de connerie ou quoi ?

BOD is the real one, the others are mostly writers/fans of Boucherie Ovalie. FaitbienGalthié is not the Galthié you're thinking of no.

A chat about Eng. The 2nd best TEAM in the world. When you look at their players
- they have an ageing and well past his best FB who'd not make any other teams in the top echelons
- 2 wings who are quick-ish but both suspect defensively
- no fetcher. Robshaw is a journeyman grafter and the latest in a long line of 7 1/2 s for Eng
- Youngs is their best SH.... with Care (who has a good kicking game) and Wigglesworth next in the order

And yet Jones makes all this work+ and 2 more things show how a smart coach can build a TEAM
a) Hartley. Wouldn't even make the top 5 in Fra and not even the best hooker in Eng BUT Jones has him in because it's part of the whole he has built.
b) Farrell at 12. A position he hardly ever plays for club. For.... well, forever, I've advocated Fra using a FH who doesn't create much in attack at 12. It gives another kicking option and takes pressure of your attacking, flaky FH.

{EDIT} Forgot. And Cole is sh*te these days.

Torque...
someone who doesn't follow Rugby but has some form of actual common sense who has a glance at France for the past 6 years and then a glance at England under E.Jones, would say: the first seem like they're not a team and don't know what they're doing, the second seem like they're incredibly well trained and know exactly what they're doing.

France have had more talent than England many times during the past few years (as well as, well, forever). Remember 2012, they were nothing on paper apart from Tuilagi, a rookie fukboi team of virgin twats coming into France's backyard with the 2011-RWC finalists Dusautoir Mas Rougerie Clerc crew... and they actually lost that, in Paris.
During that entire Lancaster period, England have been incredibly mediocre talent wise: Marler, Hartley, Dan Cole...Parling, Wood, Robshaw... Youngs, Farrell of that era, Barritt, Twelvetrees... and yet, they won like 80% of their games.

If you look at E.Jones' England vs Noves' France tactically, you'd say the first is the senior England and the second must be the U20 France team. It's impossible the two are in the same league.

Toulon's Not Toulouse wrote:

jolindien wrote:ok, donc ça veut dire pas les vrais types c'est ça ??

en fait on peut créer n'importe quel pseudo pour 2 secondes de connerie ou quoi ?

BOD is the real one, the others are mostly writers/fans of Boucherie Ovalie. FaitbienGalthié is not the Galthié you're thinking of no.

ah ouais quand meme... O'driscoll m'a toujours semblé être un petit bonhomme en dehors du terrain, avec un petit cerveau et un gros égo. Nombre de commentaires melonitants et désobligeant envers autrui. Le pauvre a une alaindelonite aiguë... le mec a été bon un jour dans son domaine, mais c'est bien fini, et ya que lui qui continue de se regarder comme à ses grandes heures.

Dork Lard wrote:If you look at E.Jones' England vs Noves' France tactically, you'd say the first is the senior England and the second must be the U20 France team. It's impossible the two are in the same league.

It's like given the same building materials, Jones (or other anglo speaking coaches) manage to build a modern city and Fre coaches build a shanty town.

Torquemada 1420 wrote:

Dork Lard wrote:If you look at E.Jones' England vs Noves' France tactically, you'd say the first is the senior England and the second must be the U20 France team. It's impossible the two are in the same league.

It's like given the same building materials, Jones (or other anglo speaking coaches) manage to build a modern city and Fre coaches build a shanty town.

There are going to be aberrations of the sort in France. France as you and I discuss occasionally is not a country that adapts smoothly, as you say it's revolution or nothing. When you think about the wealth of talent France have had since the pro era, how big the Rugby is here, and the economic means, so the pure potential on paper, and then you look at where the national team has been during PSA, during Noves, drawing with Japan at home.

10 years ago, you threw in a ton of talent on the field, that won you games, no problem, was enough. But France as a nation hasn't identified yet the modern game is about structure, precision, consistency, collective execution. England did, and they put their chauvinistic pride in a drawer and rushed to sign Eddie Jones, an Australian. Now, they're beautiful to watch and utterly dominant.
France couldn't do that. They'd rather sink in their ship with the red-white-n-blue flag waving about proudly than just do the right INTELLIGENT thing and ask for help from abroad. It's pride > intelligence in France, and pride > intelligence fails. I think Laporte is the first guy who may change that, because he's got that counter-French mentality (would've picked a foreign coach if available..).

The successful teams in the country have been the ones heavily tainted by foreign influence: Toulon with their seasoned int'l galactica, Clermont with Cotter and his heir Azéma, today Montpellier with the same Cotter and his Springboks, LaRochelle and their vibrant Oceanians Vitto B.James, Eaton who have brought that winning culture. And France needs as much help from the outside as possible to rip themselves away from their moribund ways.

Such bad faith... Laporte coaching Toulon to victory, the two Laurent, Collazo, Mignoni, Noves...