Planet Rugby Forum

Toulon's Not Toulouse wrote:

Torquemada 1420 wrote:Just being discussing this with some other lads who played rugby and view was the same. After you lost, what sort of c**t wants to go out on the town. At best, all of us would have drowned our sorrows in the clubhouse. Many of us just wanted to go home and sulk.

I take it you skimped on context? Because barring some exceptional circumstances, in the little of amateur rugby I played, win or lose, we'd go for pints at the home team's local and the losing team would laugh it off with the opposition.

Now in a high-stakes professional context I'd expect things to run differently but no, I wouldn't say it's the rule that the losing team fcuks off asap to sulk.

Most places here have a clubhouse. In fact, cannot recall a single one without. And regardless of sulk or laugh, it was with the oppos. Not running off into town to go clubbing.

Xupi wrote:

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Just being discussing this with some other lads who played rugby and view was the same. After you lost, what sort of c**t wants to go out on the town? At best, all of us would have drowned our sorrows in the clubhouse. Many of us just wanted to go home and sulk.

What bullsh*t is this? in the amateur world I played in (which includes France, UAE and Malaysia) we would all get royally pissed after every game, and whether we were on the giving or receiving end of a thumping did not matter one bit.

See above^^ plus what part of "drowning" did you not get?

The key point here is
- they were not with the opposition
- they were not in the opposition clubhouse
- they were not in the "local": they'd f**ked off into the centre of a major town

And if you wanted to drink to celebrate after losing, you have at heart maybe why for France, losing comes easily? The Penaud shrug? The Michalak "I'd rather be a loser rock star than a committed, successful professional".

I don't understand some of the decision making though.

Those players held by the police have been dropped. Lamerat, Camara, Lambey, Belleau, Pica and Danty..... except Camara? Has he got a gold plated arse?
Meatime, Thomas, Lapandry and Iturria have been dropped despite not being part of the police matter.

So what is going on here? There is clearly more than is being disclosed. Probably more than just the one incident.


PS some of this has shades of the Florian Fritz incident ...... also in Edinburgh.... also involving alcohol and accusations of sexual assault..... which seems to have been forgotten by the journos.

Sure, in the context of highly-paid professionals representing the country in a high-profile game, you'd expect a different behaviour. But otherwise, I always thought it was a big part of rugby to be able to put things back in perspective after the final whistle has blown. It's just a silly game with an improbably shaped ball at the end of the day. To quote the Boucherie: "La vie est trop courte pour comprendre le rugby alors autant en rigoler".

Torquemada 1420 wrote:I don't understand some of the decision making though.

Those players held by the police have been dropped. Lamerat, Camara, Lambey, Belleau, Pica and Danty..... except Camara? Has he got a gold plated arse?
Meatime, Thomas, Lapandry and Iturria have been dropped despite not being part of the police matter.

So what is going on here? There is clearly more than is being disclosed. Probably more than just the one incident.


PS some of this has shades of the Florian Fritz incident ...... also in Edinburgh.... also involving alcohol and accusations of sexual assault..... which seems to have been forgotten by the journos.

Camara was mistaken for Macalou...

blatant racism by the Scots, we should be awarded the win on moral grounds only!!!

Xupi wrote:For the backrow in general I remain much underwhelmed.

Lauret finally showed signs of his best years several seasons ago (might have been AI 2015?), and Camara is a work-horse with amazing fitness but is a little lacklustre in offense. Gourdon yes. Tauleigne, TBC. Picamoles is half the man he used to be.

Until the start of this decade we had more or less be continuously blessed with some of the world's best backrowers. We're not there yet, the names you put forward have potential but I remain to be convinced.

Well I would answer to you the Openside Flanker has been the ultimate game-winner in the modern day game: Steffon Armitage winning Euro player of the Year, David Pocock considered a game-changer by all, Mccaw Warburton Dusautoir or Ireland's O'Brien all considered some of the world's best. And France has struggled in that deptmt to recognize the importance of the fetcher at the bdown: a guy who can stop clean an entire onslaught by the opposition. They've failed to emphasize that area and produce the right players for that Rugby.

That being said: if you look at what France have had at their disposal in a different kind of back row, it oozes with Rugby ability and winning potential. The 2016 Autumns: France had 6-Ollivon 7-Gourdon 8-Picamoles and they even shined against the All-Blacks despite so little int'l experience. You know a Macalou has that same potential (even more) and his addition to the France pack will pay immediate dividends while flankers in other countries need time to adjust.

I would attribute the lack of a proven int'l flanker for France purely to Top 14 calendar-induced injuries and France's terrible collective affecting the individual over the past 6years, and surely not a lack of talent or quality. To illustrate the point: imagine a healthy Kevin Gourdon and Ollivon playing for Eddie Jones' England, imagine Macalou after 5-6 caps with Australia. They would be devastating names for the oppo to read on the sheet, but no one's been afraid to play France in 6 years despite the names.

GDBFC99 wrote:Quelle bande de crétins...

So when they were complaining about Noves' "authority", it was in fact about going out on the piss. Way to make the new coach look like a fool.

Torquemada 1420 wrote:

Toulon's Not Toulouse wrote:Thomas already out... Plus ca change...

And Picamoles.

Both have form for pissing off management.

Wasn't Picamoles one of the guys involved in beating up Bastareaud in NZ?

Incroyable... je viens de tout voir vos messages là.

Putain mais quelle bande de débiles profonds... Thomas il s'était déjà fait droper une fois ?

Mais quelle bande de nazes, je trouve que la fédé devraient les suspendre de toute compétition (TOP14 inclus) et SANS SALAIRE... ça leur ferait les pieds.

ET puis ensuite... on vire plein de mecs pour l'italie mais on garde vakatawa ?

Alors, là, c'est bon. Je pense qu'on n'a qu'à aller se faire sodomiser avec des échardes... c'est vraiment de la merde, mais balèze !

These guys don't need a coach, they need prison warden to manage them.

TheFrog wrote:

Torquemada 1420 wrote:

Toulon's Not Toulouse wrote:Thomas already out... Plus ca change...

And Picamoles.

Both have form for pissing off management.

Wasn't Picamoles one of the guys involved in beating up Bastareaud in NZ?

I never got more than rumours over which players were involved. Maybe.

Pica was dropped by Piglet for "a lack of respect for the referee" (Rolland?)...... and then he recalled Parra immediately when he'd been sent off for that headbutt.

TheFrog wrote:These guys don't need a coach, they need prison warden to manage them.

According to Midol not all the players that went out for a post-match drink have been sent home, only those that stayed out later than "authorised"...

It seems that either,

A) Certain players don't give a f**k about what the coaching staff says.
or
B) The coaching staff can't communicate it's red lines to the players.
or
C) There is much more to this latest event.

Whatever the real truth, it seems that those few days at Marcoussis have already resulted in "le groupe qui vit bien" becoming "le groupe fragmenté"...

clementinfrance wrote:

TheFrog wrote:These guys don't need a coach, they need prison warden to manage them.

According to Midol not all the players that went out for a post-match drink have been sent home, only those that stayed out later than "authorised"...

It seems that either,

A) Certain players don't give a f**k about what the coaching staff says.
or
B) The coaching staff can't communicate it's red lines to the players.
or
C) There is much more to this latest event.

Whatever the real truth, it seems that those few days at Marcoussis have already resulted in "le groupe qui vit bien" becoming "le groupe fragmenté"...

La vérité

http://www.lerugbynistere.fr/chroniques ... 181620.php

Laurent wrote:

clementinfrance wrote:

TheFrog wrote:These guys don't need a coach, they need prison warden to manage them.

According to Midol not all the players that went out for a post-match drink have been sent home, only those that stayed out later than "authorised"...

It seems that either,

A) Certain players don't give a f**k about what the coaching staff says.
or
B) The coaching staff can't communicate it's red lines to the players.
or
C) There is much more to this latest event.

Whatever the real truth, it seems that those few days at Marcoussis have already resulted in "le groupe qui vit bien" becoming "le groupe fragmenté"...

La vérité

http://www.lerugbynistere.fr/chroniques ... 181620.php

On the Fritz one, I think it was after the 6N game at Murrayfield on '06. I can't find any references to it now on the web.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: On the Fritz one, I think it was after the 6N game at Murrayfield on '06. I can't find any references to it now on the web.

I think it was much earlier than that, certainly not in the 6N, maybe a youth game. It was at the start of his career and it remained a stain on his CV for a long long time...

Xupi wrote:

Torquemada 1420 wrote: On the Fritz one, I think it was after the 6N game at Murrayfield on '06. I can't find any references to it now on the web.

I think it was much earlier than that, certainly not in the 6N, maybe a youth game. It was at the start of his career and it remained a stain on his CV for a long long time...

Yeah. I think you are probably right, it was possibly an U19 or U21 game back then.

Torquemada 1420 wrote:

Xupi wrote:

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Just being discussing this with some other lads who played rugby and view was the same. After you lost, what sort of c**t wants to go out on the town? At best, all of us would have drowned our sorrows in the clubhouse. Many of us just wanted to go home and sulk.

What bullsh*t is this? in the amateur world I played in (which includes France, UAE and Malaysia) we would all get royally pissed after every game, and whether we were on the giving or receiving end of a thumping did not matter one bit.

See above^^ plus what part of "drowning" did you not get?

The key point here is
- they were not with the opposition
- they were not in the opposition clubhouse
- they were not in the "local": they'd f**ked off into the centre of a major town

And if you wanted to drink to celebrate after losing, you have at heart maybe why for France, losing comes easily? The Penaud shrug? The Michalak "I'd rather be a loser rock star than a committed, successful professional".

Come on Torq, there's no opposition's clubhouse at Murrayfield and those who went out left after the banquet or official drink/mingling thingy.
There were Scottish players in the pub/bar/club/whatever, and there certainly was no fight or incident.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/1598 ... lub_staff/
I certainly wanted to mingle after the game with the opposition, home and away, win or lose, and many a time "hit town" afterwards, although this mainly happened after home games as we didn't have the sunday bus drive home. It's part of the game and probably one of the most enjoyable.
That being said they are professional players and find it amazing that a few of them went out so late and got shitfaced.

Clouseau wrote:

Torquemada 1420 wrote:

Xupi wrote:

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Just being discussing this with some other lads who played rugby and view was the same. After you lost, what sort of c**t wants to go out on the town? At best, all of us would have drowned our sorrows in the clubhouse. Many of us just wanted to go home and sulk.

What bullsh*t is this? in the amateur world I played in (which includes France, UAE and Malaysia) we would all get royally pissed after every game, and whether we were on the giving or receiving end of a thumping did not matter one bit.

See above^^ plus what part of "drowning" did you not get?

The key point here is
- they were not with the opposition
- they were not in the opposition clubhouse
- they were not in the "local": they'd f**ked off into the centre of a major town

And if you wanted to drink to celebrate after losing, you have at heart maybe why for France, losing comes easily? The Penaud shrug? The Michalak "I'd rather be a loser rock star than a committed, successful professional".

Come on Torq, there's no opposition's clubhouse at Murrayfield and those who went out left after the banquet or official drink/mingling thingy.
There were Scottish players in the pub/bar/club/whatever, and there certainly was no fight or incident.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/1598 ... lub_staff/
I certainly wanted to mingle after the game with the opposition, home and away, win or lose, and many a time "hit town" afterwards, although this mainly happened after home games as we didn't have the sunday bus drive home. It's part of the game and probably one of the most enjoyable.
That being said they are professional players and find it amazing that a few of them went out so late and got shitfaced.

AFAIK, there is a full private hospitality suite at Murrayfield for players and officials for after match dinner etc

From what I've heard and read, no Scots players were present at Tiger Lily but will stand corrected if there were and the French players had gone there with them.

But it's what you say in the last bit that is key
- it was clearly outside team orders
- they behaved irresponsibly when out: they are representing France on and off the field
- they lied about permission to go
- and my gripe at the heart of your reply; that they were having the "craic" after another miserable loss. If they were with the Scots, that mitigates this but as I say.....

If they had won, I might have been slightly more forgiving. Slightly.

{EDIT} Read the link now

I can confirm that last night the French and Scottish rugby teams enjoyed a night out in both Tigerlily and Lulu

so that rebuts my central gripe. It does raise further questions as to how the Fre coaching staff were unaware of this excursion.

Torquemada 1420 wrote:From what I've heard and read, no Scots players were present at Tiger Lily but will stand corrected if there were and the French players had gone there with them.

I posted a link in my above post : http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/1598 ... lub_staff/

Both the French and Scottish team were in the Tigerlily club, bar and restaurant complex in George Street.

(...)

Reports had suggested police became involved after an incident in the Tigerlily bar on Edinburgh's George Street.

Innes Bolt, managing director of Montpeliers, who run Tigerlily and Lulu nightclub in Edinburgh’s George Street, said: “I can confirm that last night the French and Scottish rugby teams enjoyed a night out in both Tigerlily and Lulu - venues that they have visited on a number of occasions after the Six Nations match at Murrayfield.

“The players and staff were all in good spirits and well-behaved."

I can understand you have a problem with the word "enjoy" . I don't. I do have a problem with a few of them getting plastered, if that is true, of course.

Torquemada 1420 wrote:It does raise further questions as to how the Fre coaching staff were unaware of this excursion.

You're too quick for me.

From the link :

“The players and staff were all in good spirits and well-behaved.

Clouseau wrote: I can understand you have a problem with the word "enjoy" . I don't. I do have a problem with a few of them getting plastered, if that is true, of course.

It's true. It grates with me that as so called pros that they can play like that and lose and then a couple of hours later be laughing it up. At the end of a tournament? Maybe. After a win during a tournament? Maybe. It's at the heart of their attitude to their roles.

PS At least next time I'm in Tiger Lily, it might be still safe to wear a French shirt.

panamax wrote:

Xupi wrote:Quitte à perdre tous les matchs, au moins ils se prennent des cuites mémorables tout en balançant quelques gifles à des mecs en kilt

Ben c'est sûr, avant on pouvait balancer les gifles pendant le match et maintenant c'est interdit, alors les gars sont frustrés pardi.

giffler des mecs en kilt y a des clubs pour ca, ente le marais et la Bastille...

Sh*t hitting the fan now.

Here are the allegations (which ring truer than the manure fed to us so far).

- An FFR official sanctioned the players going out on the town after the match dinner although apparently not ever suspecting what would follow.
- Players got blind drunk with Palis cutting his eye open at Tiger Lily: probably falling down drunk against a wall.
- Disagreements on Iturria's injuries with some saying he smashed his nose and lip on his headboard (FFS, Bastagate part 2) and others saying it was in a punch up with Palis
- One of the players picked up a girl and banged her at the hotel. Some of his teammates decided they'd like some of the action too; hence the girl reporting assault before withdrawing the claim.
Belleau, Lamerat, Camara, Danty, Lambey and Picamoles were the witnesses called by the Scottish Police.
- Camara was indeed mistaken for Macalou: probably based on the girl's description to the police.

I was going to say "not French rugby's finest hour" but hell, there is so much competition that this is almost the norm.

{EDIT} https://twitter.com/Ph_Kallenbrunn/stat ... 1058161664

moi j'y crois pas à cette histoire de saoulerie, c'est pas Lamerat, boire...

panamax wrote:moi j'y crois pas à cette histoire de saoulerie, c'est pas Lamerat, boire...

Oui, pas crédible, à tous les coups c'était juste une mise en scene pour la Camara Cachée.

Toulon's Not Toulouse wrote:

panamax wrote:moi j'y crois pas à cette histoire de saoulerie, c'est pas Lamerat, boire...

Oui, pas crédible, à tous les coups c'était juste une mise en scene pour la Camara Cachée.

All of this is camara obscura indeed

Toulon's Not Toulouse wrote:

panamax wrote:moi j'y crois pas à cette histoire de saoulerie, c'est pas Lamerat, boire...

Oui, pas crédible, à tous les coups c'était juste une mise en scene pour la Camara Cachée.

et puis la seule réacrtion possible face à la corona c'est "basta! rot"

et puis ca donne un coté bad boy sympathique à notre arrière tout ca, il est pas lisse ce garçon

Torquemada 1420 wrote:Here are the allegations (which ring truer than the manure fed to us so far).

FFS Torq.

Clouseau wrote:

Torquemada 1420 wrote:Here are the allegations (which ring truer than the manure fed to us so far).

FFS Torq.

1 source quoted. Also see L'Equipe but it's under premium.

Like I said.

So what is going on here? There is clearly more than is being disclosed. Probably more than just the one incident.

putain en tout cas, je sais pas ce qui s'est passé, sodomie en réunion sur un gnou volé au zoo sur fond de bière frelatée ou quoi, mais clairement, ça sera jamais aussi dégueulasse que les jeux de mots que je viens de lire sur la page d'avant.

Tout ça c'est du flan, faut rester Serin.

Au Tiger Lily, une fois Laporte passée, les Français dansaient.

Y'avait une fille Brune - El aurait dit: "oh, qué Belleau !".

Pour autant, aucun joueur ne Lam-Bey-sé. Ils sont resté Doux, May roux !

Puis ils sont rentrés à Lauret du jour, marchant au Bonnaire d'Edimbourg.

Une fois à l'hôtel, ils se sont fait des pates al-Danty.

Rien qui ne mérite le Gourdon et les plumes.

Ahaa. A full, official enquiry
https://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/6-nation ... tory.shtml

It's serious enough to merit the professional cover up.

Torquemada 1420 wrote:Ahaa. A full, official enquiry
https://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/6-nation ... tory.shtml

It's serious enough to merit the professional cover up.

ya un commentaire en bas de l'article qui me fait bien bien marrer :

Ils ont passé et repassé les vidéos : personne n'a vu Palis ni à l'hôtel ni dans le bar. Apparemment il n'est même pas venu en Ecosse.

Xupi wrote:Tout ça c'est du flan, faut rester Serin.

Au Tiger Lily, une fois Laporte passée, les Français dansaient.

Y'avait une fille Brune - El aurait dit: "oh, qué Belleau !".

Pour autant, aucun joueur ne Lam-Bey-sé. Ils sont resté Doux, May roux !

Puis ils sont rentrés à Lauret du jour, marchant au Bonnaire d'Edimbourg.

Une fois à l'hôtel, ils se sont fait des pates al-Danty.

Rien qui ne mérite le Gourdon et les plumes.

mon dieu... l'imitation de stéphane de groodt du pauvre, par nicolas canteloup, avec 40 de fièvre, et une gingivite aiguë, plus un herpès de langue.

Torquemada 1420 wrote:Ahaa. A full, official enquiry
https://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/6-nation ... tory.shtml

It's serious enough to merit the professional cover up.

Par ailleurs Bernard Laporte, Président de la Fédération Française de Rugby a décidé de diligenter une enquête interne afin de faire la lumière sur le déroulé de la soirée.

les enquêteurs vont recevoir une nouvelle bétonnière

Oh my God, the thread is going on a pun-o-rama, it's OUT OF CONTROL !!!!!
Quick, a sacrificial repugnant contribution of my own to break the cycle:
je place beaucoup d'espoir en Priso-néanmoins j'espère ne pas voir ces joueurs finir en taule-énième cagade du xv de France...

jolindien wrote:

Torquemada 1420 wrote:Ahaa. A full, official enquiry
https://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/6-nation ... tory.shtml

It's serious enough to merit the professional cover up.

ya un commentaire en bas de l'article qui me fait bien bien marrer :

Ils ont passé et repassé les vidéos : personne n'a vu Palis ni à l'hôtel ni dans le bar. Apparemment il n'est même pas venu en Ecosse.

For all his contribution on the pitch, he may as well not have done.

Interesting and surprisingly aware reaction from the clubs:

https://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/xv-de-fr ... tory.shtml

Mourad:
"Parce que quoi qu’il en soit, des joueurs qui rentrent ivres morts, à 5 heures du matin, après une défaite et à l’étranger, cela a forcément des répercussions sur l’image"

Azema:
"Ce n’est pas normal de sortir et surtout de sortir de cette façon quand tu as perdu".

And from Labit:
"Tous les petits détails qui nous manquent pour gagner ces matchs s’expliquent aussi par ce qui se passe en dehors du terrain".

Cromiere:
"Pour moi, après un match aussi frustrant, toute sortie aurait due être interdite."

Behave how you like within the spirit of the amateur game. Surely not all marginal gains should be dismissed in so-called elite professional sport? Even by the XV de France.