Chat Forum
It is currently Sun Dec 16, 2018 3:56 pm

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22815 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 538, 539, 540, 541, 542, 543, 544 ... 571  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 4157
Laurent wrote:
Heymans wrote:
Xupi wrote:
Dork Lard wrote:
Clermont and their chronic mental fragility. They're the one team that can look like the best club in the Top 14 for the first 10min and end up on the receiving end of a bonus-point victory and hammering, the one team that can dominate a game and then somehow lose it in the later stages, etc... all those now familiar patterns.

Could it be they'll fail to qualify at domestic level and win the European Cup the same season ? Would be absolutely hilarious, and exclusively French and typically Clermontois in particular. What an incredible side over the years...

Once again this is a post which is completely and shamefully off topic.

If there is one single team in French club rugby that has always been consistent, always solid, never under-perfoming, always winning, always qualifying, always impressive, it's been Clermont. They normally nerver ever fail to deliver and thye are the only team to do so.

This year is the very first in a zillion years (I think, have not checke dthe exact data) where they are so lost in T14. It normally never happens.

Try to find other root causes than "typical Clermont" sort of bullcrap.


TU rigoles j’espère? A chaque fois qu'il faut sortir les couilles pour gagner ya plus personne; alors oui ils peuvent mettre ddes branlees aux ospreys d'accord...

:lol:

Sérieux qui est champion de France?

ils font une saison de merde avec 2-3 blessés à chaque match.

Combien de finales perdues? Combien de match à enjeu perdus?
Je suis pas en train de dire que la terre est plate hein, clermont qui manque de mental c'est pas vraiment un secret.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:59 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 19919
Location: balbriggan
Heymans wrote:
Laurent wrote:
Heymans wrote:
Xupi wrote:
Dork Lard wrote:
Clermont and their chronic mental fragility. They're the one team that can look like the best club in the Top 14 for the first 10min and end up on the receiving end of a bonus-point victory and hammering, the one team that can dominate a game and then somehow lose it in the later stages, etc... all those now familiar patterns.

Could it be they'll fail to qualify at domestic level and win the European Cup the same season ? Would be absolutely hilarious, and exclusively French and typically Clermontois in particular. What an incredible side over the years...

Once again this is a post which is completely and shamefully off topic.

If there is one single team in French club rugby that has always been consistent, always solid, never under-perfoming, always winning, always qualifying, always impressive, it's been Clermont. They normally nerver ever fail to deliver and thye are the only team to do so.

This year is the very first in a zillion years (I think, have not checke dthe exact data) where they are so lost in T14. It normally never happens.

Try to find other root causes than "typical Clermont" sort of bullcrap.


TU rigoles j’espère? A chaque fois qu'il faut sortir les couilles pour gagner ya plus personne; alors oui ils peuvent mettre ddes branlees aux ospreys d'accord...

:lol:

Sérieux qui est champion de France?

ils font une saison de merde avec 2-3 blessés à chaque match.

Combien de finales perdues? Combien de match à enjeu perdus?
Je suis pas en train de dire que la terre est plate hein, clermont qui manque de mental c'est pas vraiment un secret.

les blacks aussi il parait :lol:

c'est du pipeau tous ça


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:00 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 4157
Xupi wrote:
Heymans wrote:
TU rigoles j’espère? A chaque fois qu'il faut sortir les couilles pour gagner ya plus personne; alors oui ils peuvent mettre ddes branlees aux ospreys d'accord...
J'hallucine. C'est LA seule équipe française qui répond toujours présent, depuis 20 ans. Combien d'exploits en coupe d'Europe contre les plus grands? rien que cette année? L'histoire de sombrer mentalement sur la finale, mais ça n'a rien à voir, c'est du burlesque.


Lol faudrait savoir hein. Soit ils sont bof/mauvais et en effet gagner contre les Saracens c'est un exploit. Soit c'est un grand club et alors l'exploit c'est pas de gagner des matchs de poules, ça se passe après. Et la c'est le désert.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:05 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 34636
Location: Hut 8
Xupi wrote:
Torquemada 1420 wrote:
He has a point. Clermont's chokes are now the stuff of rugby legend. You are too far the other end to suggest "never under-perfoming" because I'd say they do that for at least 20 mins every game.
Leave the choking in the final stuff aside, that's a mental problem that arises in finals only. To get to finals, so often, so consistently, all the time and every seaosn, you need consistence that even Stade Toulousain or Stade Français were never really capable off. They are just always there, and what is happening to them this season is so shocking that it has other root causes. Such as an incredible bad struck of injuries, and maybe other reasons I may not be aware of.

It's not just finals. No side has driven me nutz in Europe over the years more than Clerrmont. Too often they take the foot off the gas too early. They have blown many crucial games too that were not finals but just as pressurised (Fofana dropping the ball, Peaheart missing kicks).

Rarely do you see the complete performance. The win (I attended) away to Sarries in the 11-12 comp was such a rarity.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:12 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 4188
Location: Gaillimh
Torquemada 1420 wrote:
Xupi wrote:
Torquemada 1420 wrote:
He has a point. Clermont's chokes are now the stuff of rugby legend. You are too far the other end to suggest "never under-perfoming" because I'd say they do that for at least 20 mins every game.
Leave the choking in the final stuff aside, that's a mental problem that arises in finals only. To get to finals, so often, so consistently, all the time and every seaosn, you need consistence that even Stade Toulousain or Stade Français were never really capable off. They are just always there, and what is happening to them this season is so shocking that it has other root causes. Such as an incredible bad struck of injuries, and maybe other reasons I may not be aware of.

It's not just finals. No side has driven me nutz in Europe over the years more than Clerrmont. Too often they take the foot off the gas too early. They have blown many crucial games too that were not finals but just as pressurised (Fofana dropping the ball, Peaheart missing kicks).

Rarely do you see the complete performance. The win (I attended) away to Sarries in the 11-12 comp was such a rarity.


Well, I'm not alone then. They've become much better at the European game now but they've been incredibly frustrating for years, giving defensive bonus points to the opposition left right and centre (often to Irish provinces) at home, failing to get one away and failing to qualify because of it. Just like the Brennus, these were the years where imho they missed out on the most trophies. They were a class above the rest in France and more or less on par with the rest of Europe. It's much tougher these days on both fronts.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 34636
Location: Hut 8
Toulon's Not Toulouse wrote:
Torquemada 1420 wrote:
Xupi wrote:
Torquemada 1420 wrote:
He has a point. Clermont's chokes are now the stuff of rugby legend. You are too far the other end to suggest "never under-perfoming" because I'd say they do that for at least 20 mins every game.
Leave the choking in the final stuff aside, that's a mental problem that arises in finals only. To get to finals, so often, so consistently, all the time and every seaosn, you need consistence that even Stade Toulousain or Stade Français were never really capable off. They are just always there, and what is happening to them this season is so shocking that it has other root causes. Such as an incredible bad struck of injuries, and maybe other reasons I may not be aware of.

It's not just finals. No side has driven me nutz in Europe over the years more than Clerrmont. Too often they take the foot off the gas too early. They have blown many crucial games too that were not finals but just as pressurised (Fofana dropping the ball, Peaheart missing kicks).

Rarely do you see the complete performance. The win (I attended) away to Sarries in the 11-12 comp was such a rarity.


Well, I'm not alone then. They've become much better at the European game now but they've been incredibly frustrating for years, giving defensive bonus points to the opposition left right and centre (often to Irish provinces) at home, failing to get one away and failing to qualify because of it. Just like the Brennus, these were the years where imho they missed out on the most trophies. They were a class above the rest in France and more or less on par with the rest of Europe. It's much tougher these days on both fronts.

Yup. All of that. One where Buttin, instead of kicking the ball out, gave it back to Leinster for them to get a losing BP (or maybe it was a try bonus) being a prime example. And the games where they've banked 3 tries early on and then dicked about only not to get the 4th try.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:36 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:45 am
Posts: 6890
Uhm. I don't think it deserves much discussion, or is that difficult to establish. If you've watched Clermont regularly during the Cotter years and now Azéma, it's obvious they were one of the best or THE best (depending on the season give or take one) coached team in the Top 14. It's obvious they've been very consistent in being a top club to face for anyone domestic or European, making like 4 Top14 finals in a row, winning one, making the Euro final twice in 3 years...

But they're also surely the most unstable powerhouse in the continent given their quality both on paper and as a team on the field. Let's push the debate and make it interesting here: I make the argument no team has been THIS good, and failed THAT much over the years, in all of Europe. They've got the highest elite level/failure ratio in the continent, in fact I'd argue firmly it's not even remotely close.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 34636
Location: Hut 8
http://www.lemonde.fr/rugby/article/201 ... 16937.html?

:thumbdown:

and more Mackay corruption

https://www.20minutes.fr/sport/2213631- ... aporte-ffr


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 12985
Got to laugh about Clermont's mental frailty... As if different guys at different times in the history of rugby suffered the same issue...

They choke a few times, some times they were deservely well beaten. And that's life in sport.

As for what is going on currently, too many injuries with key players out, and the rest of them running out of steam because they have played too many games, or being young prospects a bit soft for the Top14.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 9161
Location: Toulouse
Heymans wrote:
Lol faudrait savoir hein. Soit ils sont bof/mauvais et en effet gagner contre les Saracens c'est un exploit. Soit c'est un grand club et alors l'exploit c'est pas de gagner des matchs de poules, ça se passe après. Et la c'est le désert.
C'est pas le sujet hein.

On a un intervenant qui nous dit que "regardez Clermont, ils sont à la ramasse, ils sont capables de perdre des matches alors qu'ils mènent de 20pts, typiquement français et clermontois et bla et bla".

Sauf que Clermont c'est l'inverse: s'il y a bien une équipe qui, jusqu'à cette année, était toujours dans les deux premiers, toujours en demi-finale de Coupe d'Europe, et était très très consistante, c'était bien eux. C'est le contre-exemple parrfait de ce que raconte Dork Lard.

Qu'ils se soient souvent plantés en finale, d'un cheveu, par manque d emental, c'est un autre problème psychologique qui n'a rien à voir avec le sujet.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:14 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 4157
Xupi wrote:
Heymans wrote:
Lol faudrait savoir hein. Soit ils sont bof/mauvais et en effet gagner contre les Saracens c'est un exploit. Soit c'est un grand club et alors l'exploit c'est pas de gagner des matchs de poules, ça se passe après. Et la c'est le désert.
C'est pas le sujet hein.

On a un intervenant qui nous dit que "regardez Clermont, ils sont à la ramasse, ils sont capables de perdre des matches alors qu'ils mènent de 20pts, typiquement français et clermontois et bla et bla".

Sauf que Clermont c'est l'inverse: s'il y a bien une équipe qui, jusqu'à cette année, était toujours dans les deux premiers, toujours en demi-finale de Coupe d'Europe, et était très très consistante, c'était bien eux. C'est le contre-exemple parrfait de ce que raconte Dork Lard.

Qu'ils se soient souvent plantés en finale, d'un cheveu, par manque d emental, c'est un autre problème psychologique qui n'a rien à voir avec le sujet.


Je ne nie pas qu'ils font partie des rares équipes qui jouent au rugby en France, en même temps ils ont trop de défaillances mentales pour être une "grande équipe". S'ils avaient été si au dessus de tout l monde ils auraient plus de titres a montrer qu'un pauvre brennus.
Je vais pas te rappeler le palmares du ST, mais pndant que Vern Cotter etait à Clermont (2006-2014) le ST a gagné un H Cup et trois Brennus. Cotter?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 9161
Location: Toulouse
Heymans wrote:
Je ne nie pas qu'ils font partie des rares équipes qui jouent au rugby en France, en même temps ils ont trop de défaillances mentales pour être une "grande équipe". S'ils avaient été si au dessus de tout l monde ils auraient plus de titres a montrer qu'un pauvre brennus.
Je vais pas te rappeler le palmares du ST, mais pndant que Vern Cotter etait à Clermont (2006-2014) le ST a gagné un H Cup et trois Brennus. Cotter?

Those are the T14 ranking of ASM, regular season, over the past 11 seasons starting last year: 2, 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 4, 3, 3, 1, 3
Those are the HCup ranking of ASM over the past 6 seasons starting last year: Final, Pool (tighest pool ever in the history), Final, Semi-Final, Final, Semi-Final

It is by far since the decline of ST, the most consistent French team in rugby. They almost always qualify in Europe, almost always beat the bigger teams at home, are capable of huge upset away against the biggest European teams, and always deliver in T14.

Throughout those dark age of French rugby over the past decade or so, Clermont has always been THE french team that was consistent, solid, with a gameplan, sticking to it and delivering. Disappoiting overall trophy cabinet yes, but bloody heel always there, never an off-season, always at the top.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 9161
Location: Toulouse
Dork Lard wrote:
But they're also surely the most unstable powerhouse in the continent given their quality both on paper and as a team on the field. Let's push the debate and make it interesting here: I make the argument no team has been THIS good, and failed THAT much over the years, in all of Europe. They've got the highest elite level/failure ratio in the continent, in fact I'd argue firmly it's not even remotely close.
That's looking at this debate from an extremely narrow angle. If you look at ratio of top spots and qualification they've obtained, they're very high there in the past decade (Irish provinces apart) and they are obviously the most consistent in French rugby.

If one team does deliver, it's them.

Therefore what is happening to them this year is extremely surprising and unprecedented... unless you go and dig out for the real causes behind.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:42 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:45 am
Posts: 6890
Xupi wrote:
Dork Lard wrote:
But they're also surely the most unstable powerhouse in the continent given their quality both on paper and as a team on the field. Let's push the debate and make it interesting here: I make the argument no team has been THIS good, and failed THAT much over the years, in all of Europe. They've got the highest elite level/failure ratio in the continent, in fact I'd argue firmly it's not even remotely close.
That's looking at this debate from an extremely narrow angle. If you look at ratio of top spots and qualification they've obtained, they're very high there in the past decade (Irish provinces apart) and they are obviously the most consistent in French rugby.

If one team does deliver, it's them.

Therefore what is happening to them this year is extremely surprising and unprecedented... unless you go and dig out for the real causes behind.

Right.
In the meantime, there's no denying they've choked a number of times where it's become a founded cliché in France as well as everywhere around Europe, the most resounding evidence of that, oh I don't know, losing to Bordeaux at home on the final pool weekend to qualify, 45-6 vs Saracens in a semi-final, or that loss to Toulon in 2013 when they were up two tries and easily the better team on the year, losing at home to Castres in a ko game to break their 77- home win record, just off the top of my head; there's no denying they've choked a number of times, have manifested a tin mental state over and over again, and failed in the bigger moments when it counted the most.

It's fantastic to be consistent during the regular season, and I laud Cotter for this every chance I get... but when you make like 12 finals and win like 2, and you're often the better team, there's a clear consistency about the pattern which, get this: happens to be significant on a deep level, and not a remote recurrence at all..


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:38 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 11196
Torquemada 1420 wrote:
http://www.lemonde.fr/rugby/article/2018/02/18/la-relation-pas-tres-amicale-de-la-federation-francaise-de-rugby-avec-son-association-d-anciens-joueurs_5258820_1616937.html?

:thumbdown:

and more Mackay corruption

https://www.20minutes.fr/sport/2213631- ... aporte-ffr


Re: the former internationals, it is not surprising really. Laporte was never good enough to get even close the French team. It is not surprising he would seek to destroy something he cannot be part of.

Re: his friends' salary, outrageous. When you see that a guy like Christophe Reigt coming in with almost zero experience and earning three time what Skrela was making, it makes you cry.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:29 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 9161
Location: Toulouse
Dork Lard wrote:
In the meantime, there's no denying they've choked a number of times where it's become a founded cliché in France as well as everywhere around Europe, the most resounding evidence of that, oh I don't know, losing to Bordeaux at home on the final pool weekend to qualify, 45-6 vs Saracens in a semi-final, or that loss to Toulon in 2013 when they were up two tries and easily the better team on the year, losing at home to Castres in a ko game to break their 77- home win record, just off the top of my head; there's no denying they've choked a number of times, have manifested a tin mental state over and over again, and failed in the bigger moments when it counted the most.
What was that you were saying? 77-home win record? right, end of debate. Clermont do have a reputation to choke in the final, but they also have the reputation to be one of the most consistent rugby teams on the continent. They win most of their games, almost always make it through and qualify. No other French team approaches their record at least not in this decade.

Dork Lard wrote:
It's fantastic to be consistent during the regular season, and I laud Cotter for this every chance I get... but when you make like 12 finals and win like 2, and you're often the better team, there's a clear consistency about the pattern which, get this: happens to be significant on a deep level, and not a remote recurrence at all..
This has nothing to do with the repeated counter-performances they are suffering this season and which are I repeat unprecedented.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:17 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 34636
Location: Hut 8
La soule wrote:
Torquemada 1420 wrote:
http://www.lemonde.fr/rugby/article/2018/02/18/la-relation-pas-tres-amicale-de-la-federation-francaise-de-rugby-avec-son-association-d-anciens-joueurs_5258820_1616937.html?

:thumbdown:

and more Mackay corruption

https://www.20minutes.fr/sport/2213631- ... aporte-ffr


Re: the former internationals, it is not surprising really. Laporte was never good enough to get even close the French team. It is not surprising he would seek to destroy something he cannot be part of.

Re: his friends' salary, outrageous. When you see that a guy like Christophe Reigt coming in with almost zero experience and earning three time what Skrela was making, it makes you cry.

There is this tedious business cliche these days about "leadership from the top". Here, I think it's true to the extent that there is no chance of fixing anything whilst the guys at the top are playing for personal power and money to the exclusion of all else. At least (small crumb) you might argue the club owners like Mourad are in for meritocratic success. Mackay, The Parasite, Camou, Ferrasse etc have all been corrupt to the detriment of French rugby.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:19 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 34636
Location: Hut 8
Xupi wrote:
Dork Lard wrote:
In the meantime, there's no denying they've choked a number of times where it's become a founded cliché in France as well as everywhere around Europe, the most resounding evidence of that, oh I don't know, losing to Bordeaux at home on the final pool weekend to qualify, 45-6 vs Saracens in a semi-final, or that loss to Toulon in 2013 when they were up two tries and easily the better team on the year, losing at home to Castres in a ko game to break their 77- home win record, just off the top of my head; there's no denying they've choked a number of times, have manifested a tin mental state over and over again, and failed in the bigger moments when it counted the most.
What was that you were saying? 77-home win record? right, end of debate. Clermont do have a reputation to choke in the final, but they also have the reputation to be one of the most consistent rugby teams on the continent. They win most of their games, almost always make it through and qualify. No other French team approaches their record at least not in this decade.

Dork Lard wrote:
It's fantastic to be consistent during the regular season, and I laud Cotter for this every chance I get... but when you make like 12 finals and win like 2, and you're often the better team, there's a clear consistency about the pattern which, get this: happens to be significant on a deep level, and not a remote recurrence at all..
This has nothing to do with the repeated counter-performances they are suffering this season and which are I repeat unprecedented.

I don't think anyone is saying otherwise. There are 2 things going on here
- ASM are chokers
- ASM are playing sh*t this season
the latter is heavily down to injuries (mainly at FH IMHO).


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:29 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 4188
Location: Gaillimh
Xupi wrote:
They win most of their games, almost always make it through and qualify. No other French team approaches their record at least not in this decade.


I know you like to pretend they don't exist, but since their return to T14 9 seasons ago, the Toulon rankings have been 9, 2, 8, 3, 2, 1, 1, 2, 4, with HCup rankings x, x, QF, x, W, W, W, QF, QF (x marks seasons playing the Challenge Cup). It's not exactly worlds apart in terms of always being there at the end although there have been teething problems in the first few seasons after promotion. Now, Toulon was slowly dying in ProD2 not long before that whereas ASM have pretty much always been there, but if you're talking about the past decade, there's an other elephant in the room and it's called Mourad.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:34 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 12985
Soirée "pan pan cul cul" en Ecosse donc...

http://www.lejdd.fr/sport/rugby/nui-divresse-des-bleus-en-ecosse-ce-quil-sest-passe-3577403


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:39 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 4188
Location: Gaillimh
Torquemada 1420 wrote:
I don't think anyone is saying otherwise. There are 2 things going on here
- ASM are chokers
- ASM are playing sh*t this season
the latter is heavily down to injuries (mainly at FH IMHO).


Yeah their injury list is freakish this season. And it keeps extending relentlessly... If I were in charge, I'd play it safe in T14 as barring a miracle it's all over and they just need to maintain enough points to stay above relegation, and save the fit and able to finish on a high in Europe.

As for the choker tag, meh. It's funny as a recurrent joke, but winning titles takes a lot of things coming together at the right time including sheer luck. They won their 2010 title after a referee howler in the semi, and I have no doubt that many finals they lost could have gone the other way with a single referee decision (the Lobbe steal in Dublin?) or ball bounce. Regarding finals, they're more unlucky than anything imho. The only mental issue I'd point at was mentioned earlier: it was their tendency to drift out in early european pool games after doing the minimum job, which costed them critical bonus points and qualification when imho they had some clear shots at the title. Obviously, they've fixed that now.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:08 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 34636
Location: Hut 8
Toulon's Not Toulouse wrote:
: it was their tendency to drift out in early european pool games after doing the minimum job, which costed them critical bonus points and qualification when imho they had some clear shots at the title. Obviously, they've fixed that now.

Ospreys 21 v 26 ASM after they had scored 2 tries in the opening 10 mins :evil:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:11 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 12985
Torquemada 1420 wrote:
Toulon's Not Toulouse wrote:
: it was their tendency to drift out in early european pool games after doing the minimum job, which costed them critical bonus points and qualification when imho they had some clear shots at the title. Obviously, they've fixed that now.

Ospreys 21 v 26 ASM after they had scored 2 tries in the opening 10 mins :evil:


Could also be a fitness issue... Same one we see on the international stage?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:12 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 34636
Location: Hut 8
TheFrog wrote:

I think we have enough consistent ifno. now to know that
a) the official version was a crock of lies
b) the players involved behaved like dickheads


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:14 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 11196
https://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/top-14/2 ... tory.shtml


Kaino to Toulouse apparently.

I was hoping they would go for Miquel straight away but I guess he is an OK player.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 34636
Location: Hut 8
La soule wrote:
https://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/top-14/2017-2018/toulouse-kaino-c-est-imminent_sto6635550/story.shtml


Kaino to Toulouse apparently.

I was hoping they would go for Miquel straight away but I guess he is an OK player.

Bad buy. Kaino has max 2 seasons left in him. Compare that with LaR signing Vito. I guess this means they've given up on Galan.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:45 am
Posts: 6890
TheFrog wrote:
Torquemada 1420 wrote:
Toulon's Not Toulouse wrote:
: it was their tendency to drift out in early european pool games after doing the minimum job, which costed them critical bonus points and qualification when imho they had some clear shots at the title. Obviously, they've fixed that now.

Ospreys 21 v 26 ASM after they had scored 2 tries in the opening 10 mins :evil:


Could also be a fitness issue... Same one we see on the international stage?


No, they'll do the same against Top 14 opposition ! It's clearly taking the foot off the pedal.
This in 2016 was absolutely and utterly ASM Clermont like no other team in the continent could've done it:

Image

They had smashed Bordeaux away earlier in the pool. Last game of the pools, get smashed at home. It's a choking job of the most elite kind, considering their strength.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:36 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 9161
Location: Toulouse
Torquemada 1420 wrote:
I don't think anyone is saying otherwise. There are 2 things going on here
- ASM are chokers
- ASM are playing sh*t this season
the latter is heavily down to injuries (mainly at FH IMHO).
No there are ot 2 things, there is only one: ASM are poor this season and for the first in ages, inconsistent, mainly because of their stupid injury toll.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 9161
Location: Toulouse
Toulon's Not Toulouse wrote:
I know you like to pretend they don't exist, but since their return to T14 9 seasons ago, the Toulon rankings have been 9, 2, 8, 3, 2, 1, 1, 2, 4, with HCup rankings x, x, QF, x, W, W, W, QF, QF (x marks seasons playing the Challenge Cup). It's not exactly worlds apart in terms of always being there at the end although there have been teething problems in the first few seasons after promotion. Now, Toulon was slowly dying in ProD2 not long before that whereas ASM have pretty much always been there, but if you're talking about the past decade, there's an other elephant in the room and it's called Mourad.
Yes there is also Toulon. But it's still too recent tro compare to the two decades of consistency of clubs such as ST before, and Clermont up to this season. The other reason why I am not taking them as an example is that they were not French at all for quite a few seasons, therefore it's difficult to compare their performances with the evolutions of the rest of French rugby. As of late, due to political pressure, they're getting more French again.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 34636
Location: Hut 8
Xupi wrote:
Torquemada 1420 wrote:
I don't think anyone is saying otherwise. There are 2 things going on here
- ASM are chokers
- ASM are playing sh*t this season
the latter is heavily down to injuries (mainly at FH IMHO).
No there are ot 2 things, there is only one: ASM are poor this season and for the first in ages, inconsistent, mainly because of their stupid injury toll.

I'm afraid the world does not agree with you. It's even known in Australia
http://www.news.com.au/sport/rugby/cler ... 99bb13f76d


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:17 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:45 am
Posts: 6890
Torquemada 1420 wrote:
Xupi wrote:
Torquemada 1420 wrote:
I don't think anyone is saying otherwise. There are 2 things going on here
- ASM are chokers
- ASM are playing sh*t this season
the latter is heavily down to injuries (mainly at FH IMHO).
No there are ot 2 things, there is only one: ASM are poor this season and for the first in ages, inconsistent, mainly because of their stupid injury toll.

I'm afraid the world does not agree with you. It's even known in Australia
http://www.news.com.au/sport/rugby/cler ... 99bb13f76d

:P

Anyways I'm happy to see how Brunel's xv de France bounces back this weekend. As I gave Noves lots of patience and enthusiasm/good will and a full year I can only do the same with any one new coach. It's very disappointing so many players are left out because if you're ever going to try them out it's against Italy during a test calendar year but then again it's a relief for Brunel this episode happened before Italy and not before England. Like this was the perfect chance to finaaaaalllly try out Lambey, or Danty, but nope. Couilloud to get a gig possibly off the bench.
Bastareaud is going to wreak havoc though in the Ita defense, he'll be so glad to return and want to show he's a veteran big poppa now. :nod:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 7772
La soule wrote:
Torquemada 1420 wrote:
http://www.lemonde.fr/rugby/article/2018/02/18/la-relation-pas-tres-amicale-de-la-federation-francaise-de-rugby-avec-son-association-d-anciens-joueurs_5258820_1616937.html?

:thumbdown:

and more Mackay corruption

https://www.20minutes.fr/sport/2213631- ... aporte-ffr


Re: the former internationals, it is not surprising really. Laporte was never good enough to get even close the French team. It is not surprising he would seek to destroy something he cannot be part of.

Re: his friends' salary, outrageous. When you see that a guy like Christophe Reigt coming in with almost zero experience and earning three time what Skrela was making, it makes you cry.


ouais mais bon, l'asso des anciens internationaux ça sent bon le pâté tout pourri aussi... aux frais de la princesse.

perso je mettrai les 2 dans les même bateau, à couler au large.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:04 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 7772
Au fait, je viens je voir les photos... on étaient pas sponsorisés par BMW sur le maillot ?

Là ya plus que altrad, BM s'est barré ??


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:39 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 12985
Quote:
XV de France : 15. Bonneval ; 14. Fall, 13. Bastareaud, 12. Doumayrou, 11. Grosso ; 10. Beauxis, 9. Machenaud ; 7. Camara, 8. Tauleigne, 6. Lauret ; 5. Vahaamahina, 4. Gabrillagues ; 3. Slimani, 2. Guirado (cap), 1. Poirot.

Les remplaçants : 16. Pelissie, 17. Priso, 18. Gomes Sa, 19. Taofifenua, 20. Galletier, 21. Couilloud, 22. Trinh Duc, 23. Fickou.


Il va y avoir de la puissance... Ca ne va pas faire dans la finesse je pense...

Intense combat sur un petit périmètre, score étriqué, jusqu'à ce que l'une des équipes craque.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:44 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 19919
Location: balbriggan
TheFrog wrote:
Quote:
XV de France : 15. Bonneval ; 14. Fall, 13. Bastareaud, 12. Doumayrou, 11. Grosso ; 10. Beauxis, 9. Machenaud ; 7. Camara, 8. Tauleigne, 6. Lauret ; 5. Vahaamahina, 4. Gabrillagues ; 3. Slimani, 2. Guirado (cap), 1. Poirot.

Les remplaçants : 16. Pelissie, 17. Priso, 18. Gomes Sa, 19. Taofifenua, 20. Galletier, 21. Couilloud, 22. Trinh Duc, 23. Fickou.


Il va y avoir de la puissance... Ca ne va pas faire dans la finesse je pense...

Intense combat sur un petit périmètre, score étriqué, jusqu'à ce que l'une des équipes craque.

Allez les Ritals.

Je regarderai même pas les Hommes je pense. les -20 et les filles oui


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:47 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 7772
TheFrog wrote:
Quote:
XV de France : 15. Bonneval ; 14. Fall, 13. Bastareaud, 12. Doumayrou, 11. Grosso ; 10. Beauxis, 9. Machenaud ; 7. Camara, 8. Tauleigne, 6. Lauret ; 5. Vahaamahina, 4. Gabrillagues ; 3. Slimani, 2. Guirado (cap), 1. Poirot.

Les remplaçants : 16. Pelissie, 17. Priso, 18. Gomes Sa, 19. Taofifenua, 20. Galletier, 21. Couilloud, 22. Trinh Duc, 23. Fickou.


Il va y avoir de la puissance... Ca ne va pas faire dans la finesse je pense...

Intense combat sur un petit périmètre, score étriqué, jusqu'à ce que l'une des équipes craque.


Très honnêtement, faut dire ce qui est, c'est une catastrophe. A chaque compo, j'ai l'impression de voir bonnet blanc et blanc bonnet.

Ce que je me demande, c'est si ces mêmes mecs, sous d'autres dispositions, avec la confiance, etc, pouvaient donner autre chose que c'est bouillie de rugby sans tête ?
Parce que, si on veut se souvenir, les tous débuts de noves (Aus, NZ à la maison) avaient donné une jeu incroyable, où on a avait mis la misère en vitesse aux australiens et NZ, et perdu faute de ne concrétiser que 1/5 des grosses occaz.

C'est parti où cette vitesse de jeu ?
La spirale de merde dans laquelle on est y est sans doute pour beaucoup, ya pas de miracle. Quand on regarde au niveau personnel, une plongée infernale, déprime et échecs, vous change un homme du tout au tout. Je pense que pour les équipe et les groupes il en va de même.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:20 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 12985
Oui, l'automne 2016 m'avait fait rêver... Je me disais que la mayonnaise commençait à prendre et qu'il ne manquait plus qu'à régler quelques petits détails... Et puis je ne sais pas ce qui c'est passé...

Au moins, avec Brunel, on n'a pas de surprise. Pas de fioriture, pas de fausses promesses...

Et en plus, les joueurs sont contents parce que l'atmosphère est meilleure que sous l'emprise du dictateur Noves...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:29 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 4188
Location: Gaillimh
jolindien wrote:
Ce que je me demande, c'est si ces mêmes mecs, sous d'autres dispositions, avec la confiance, etc, pouvaient donner autre chose que c'est bouillie de rugby sans tête ?
Parce que, si on veut se souvenir, les tous débuts de noves (Aus, NZ à la maison) avaient donné une jeu incroyable, où on a avait mis la misère en vitesse aux australiens et NZ, et perdu faute de ne concrétiser que 1/5 des grosses occaz.

C'est parti où cette vitesse de jeu ?


Lack of confidence by the players, lack of leadership by the coach/captain and external pressure to win at all costs by the media/fans/upper management. So players revert to safer patterns: defend, keep it tight, take things slowly. Everyone knows how to play route one rugby, so it's something you can always trust your players/teammates to do half-decently. The Lievremont era was exactly like that, the first 6N was exhilarating, but it reverted to type after too much losing with style. Toulon in T14 last year, with half the season attempting to throw the ball around in unfamiliar patterns and losing before reverting to the tried and tested and powering their way to a final.

It takes time and effort to switch to an unfamiliar riskier game, so you need big balls at the top to keep everyone on board. Lievremont conceded too early, PSA never tried, Noves didn't work out with the players and was undermined by upper management. I'm not convinced Brunel is the kind of character that will make it happen but we'll see over time. It doesn't help that the various french XV captains over that period seem rather passive lead-by-example type. Leading by example on the pitch is necessary, but not sufficient imho. Half the role should be about sorting out internal issues and work ethics before they become endemic, and this bit doesn't seem to be happening. In Toulon I'm happier with Basta in the job than Guirado.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 11196
TheFrog wrote:
Oui, l'automne 2016 m'avait fait rêver... Je me disais que la mayonnaise commençait à prendre et qu'il ne manquait plus qu'à régler quelques petits détails... Et puis je ne sais pas ce qui c'est passé...

Au moins, avec Brunel, on n'a pas de surprise. Pas de fioriture, pas de fausses promesses...

Et en plus, les joueurs sont contents parce que l'atmosphère est meilleure que sous l'emprise du dictateur Noves...


Tu m'etonnes!! Ils peuvent se battre dans la rue au coeur de la nuit et giffler les gonzesses a l'envie!!!

Pas photo!

Pour la compo de l'equipe contre l'Italie, je pleure.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:10 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 34636
Location: Hut 8
Laurent wrote:
TheFrog wrote:
Quote:
XV de France : 15. Bonneval ; 14. Fall, 13. Bastareaud, 12. Doumayrou, 11. Grosso ; 10. Beauxis, 9. Machenaud ; 7. Camara, 8. Tauleigne, 6. Lauret ; 5. Vahaamahina, 4. Gabrillagues ; 3. Slimani, 2. Guirado (cap), 1. Poirot.

Les remplaçants : 16. Pelissie, 17. Priso, 18. Gomes Sa, 19. Taofifenua, 20. Galletier, 21. Couilloud, 22. Trinh Duc, 23. Fickou.


Il va y avoir de la puissance... Ca ne va pas faire dans la finesse je pense...

Intense combat sur un petit périmètre, score étriqué, jusqu'à ce que l'une des équipes craque.

Allez les Ritals.

Je regarderai même pas les Hommes je pense. les -20 et les filles oui

:lol: Was about to post the same.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22815 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 538, 539, 540, 541, 542, 543, 544 ... 571  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Achahoish, Apposite, BBC 2, bimboman, Bing [Bot], comets, Crivvens, EverReady, Lazy Couch potato, ManInTheBar, Mr Mike, Newsome, Nieghorn, Oxbow, Petej, Plastic Sarrie, Raggs, redderneck, Rowdy, shereblue, terryfinch, The Man Without Fear, Turbogoat, waguser and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group