Planet Rugby Forum

Laurent wrote:Altrad has payed 1,4 million to buy goosen from racing

I hope the spoiled plum gets croked in his first training run

Goosen is mehhh and trouble. Another Quade Cooper or Henjak.

Torquemada 1420 wrote:

Laurent wrote:Altrad has payed 1,4 million to buy goosen from racing

I hope the spoiled plum gets croked in his first training run

Goosen is mehhh and trouble. Another Quade Cooper or Henjak.

Trouble, for sure. But a much much much better player.

Torquemada 1420 wrote:Any likelihood of the U20 game being broadcast?

yes on France4

Laurent wrote:

Torquemada 1420 wrote:Any likelihood of the U20 game being broadcast?

yes on France4

Heymans quand tu te sors de tes disques de Jazz Fait moi signe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3L7ymfHfq0

TheFrog wrote: Italy didn't really fear England's athleticism for 60min. And then they collapsed. But France are not fitter than Italy.

This. I have not followed Italy too closely, but I don't think France will be more athletic, fitter or more enduring.

We are obviously going into this game without the necessary talent nor of course, organized team play. We should also significantly lack pace in the backline - if we were playing England with that starting XV we'd get litteraly shread apart.. The plan vs Italy will be to revert to old style and try to run over them. I don't think it will work and we may be in for a very close game.

Xupi wrote:

TheFrog wrote: Italy didn't really fear England's athleticism for 60min. And then they collapsed. But France are not fitter than Italy.

This. I have not followed Italy too closely, but I don't think France will be more athletic, fitter or more enduring.

We are obviously going into this game without the necessary talent nor of course, organized team play. We should also significantly lack pace in the backline - if we were playing England with that starting XV we'd get litteraly shread apart.. The plan vs Italy will be to revert to old style and try to run over them. I don't think it will work and we may be in for a very close game.

Seriously hope we get hockeyed.

Laurent wrote: Seriously hope we get hockeyed.

I hope first and foremost for a good game of rugby to watch, just like I thought SCO vs FRA was. And of course I will support our boys, whatever the situation or the quality of play.

Xupi wrote:

Laurent wrote: Seriously hope we get hockeyed.

I hope first and foremost for a good game of rugby to watch, just like I thought SCO vs FRA was. And of course I will support our boys, whatever the situation or the quality of play.

Won't be watching so don't care about the quality

Training is at 8 friday So I'll be trying to shake my cold by going outside...

and hope they don't cancel training to watch (they need to train)

Laurent wrote: Training is at 8 friday So I'll be trying to shake my cold by going outside...

and hope they don't cancel training to watch (they need to train)

Ah you're still playing, good I've stopped completely, too old. Played indoor futsal for the past 2 years but managed to get injured twice. I am now dedicating my few hours of free time to cycling, which I adore ! L'Ariégeoise is my objective this season...

Xupi wrote:

Laurent wrote: Training is at 8 friday So I'll be trying to shake my cold by going outside...

and hope they don't cancel training to watch (they need to train)

Ah you're still playing, good I've stopped completely, too old. Played indoor futsal for the past 2 years but managed to get injured twice. I am now dedicating my few hours of free time to cycling, which I adore ! L'Ariégeoise is my objective this season...

No Not playing I can't old age and no cruciates left.

I am trying to help my local club though

Laurent wrote:Heymans quand tu te sors de tes disques de Jazz Fait moi signe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3L7ymfHfq0

Tres bon

Tu connais transperfect?

Xupi wrote: have not followed Italy too closely, but I don't think France will be more athletic, fitter or more enduring.

Wait, just... just... have a proper look at this, closely, just to be sure for a second here:




You say the side on the left doesn't have an athletic/power advantage from 1 to 23 over the side on the right. Would you hold onto that statement after review ?

Dork Lard wrote: You say the side on the left doesn't have an athletic/power advantage from 1 to 23 over the side on the right. Would you hold onto that statement after review ?

A few month ago we have been kept in check (if not more) by a Japanese side which most thought, because of their inferior size and weight, we would demolish physically. So yes I stand by my arguments that the current French are inferior athletes (speed, cardio, endurance, general skills) to the other major nations. They may have bulk, but that it seems is not enough. A guy like Picamoles for example, is completely out of his depth right now.

Again I have not followed Italy too closely but I expect them to be as usual: physical, solid skills, very combative but lacking fitness in the last 20'. Except we won't outpace them.

Dork Lard wrote:

Xupi wrote: have not followed Italy too closely, but I don't think France will be more athletic, fitter or more enduring.

Wait, just... just... have a proper look at this, closely, just to be sure for a second here:


You say the side on the left doesn't have an athletic/power advantage from 1 to 23 over the side on the right. Would you hold onto that statement after review ?

Italy trained by Connor O'Shea versus France trained by anyone?

This will be even stevens. Both sides will run out of gas by 60 and the one who plays the better territorial game will win.

Torquemada 1420 wrote:

Dork Lard wrote:

Xupi wrote: have not followed Italy too closely, but I don't think France will be more athletic, fitter or more enduring.

Wait, just... just... have a proper look at this, closely, just to be sure for a second here:


You say the side on the left doesn't have an athletic/power advantage from 1 to 23 over the side on the right. Would you hold onto that statement after review ?

Italy trained by Connor O'Shea versus France trained by anyone?

This will be even stevens. Both sides will run out of gas by 60 and the one who plays the better territorial game will win.

What I'm saying is it's impossible to overlook the athletic superiority of the French. Bastareaud makes one good carry, ONE good carry, and the Italy defense is compromised, that's 7pts, just like that. Grosso, one trademark powerful run and it's virtually a try. Tauleigne is 110kilo + and dynamic, Poirot same. Doumayrou, Fickou or Bonneval are some of the least expected threats, and they've got serious legs. Speaking of legs, Couilloud can produce a try on his own vs a tired Italian defense in the 2nd half, you've seen the kid ball in hand I'm sure. Look at the bench as a whole again, the physical dimension there. Even Trinh-Duc in this kind of game is not a negligible talent ball in hand.

Italy are going to have their hands full and can lose the plot in one or two plays, that easily, caused by the French individual strength; is what I'm saying. They're the least athletic by far in the tournament, and they can't recover from, if they occur, 2 french tries. Other teams can. And they probably can't threaten France after the 65th minute if they're trailing by then, because France will have so much more quality on paper it's going to pay immediate dividends in that last quarter.

T'as regarder un match de l'equipe de France dernierement???

Utopia

La soule wrote:T'as regarder un match de l'equipe de France dernierement???

Utopia

You got to admit he does the blind faith thing rather well though, and it's refreshing amidst the general doom and gloom.

Dork Lard wrote:What I'm saying is it's impossible to overlook the athletic superiority of the French. Bastareaud makes one good carry, ONE good carry, and the Italy defense is compromised, that's 7pts, just like that. Grosso, one trademark powerful run and it's virtually a try. Tauleigne is 110kilo + and dynamic, Poirot same. Doumayrou, Fickou or Bonneval are some of the least expected threats, and they've got serious legs. Speaking of legs, Couilloud can produce a try on his own vs a tired Italian defense in the 2nd half, you've seen the kid ball in hand I'm sure. Look at the bench as a whole again, the physical dimension there. Even Trinh-Duc in this kind of game is not a negligible talent ball in hand.

Italy are going to have their hands full and can lose the plot in one or two plays, that easily, caused by the French individual strength; is what I'm saying. They're the least athletic by far in the tournament, and they can't recover from, if they occur, 2 french tries. Other teams can. And they probably can't threaten France after the 65th minute if they're trailing by then, because France will have so much more quality on paper it's going to pay immediate dividends in that last quarter.

Bastareaud makes one good carry, goes to ground, ruck, ball buried, 3s later, ball is out but the Italian defense is reorganised. Been there, seen this... And Bastareaud can't follow the rest of the back line when there is a break, which is an obvious weakness. When Armitage was playing for Toulon, he was the one playing Bastareaud's role to finish the action after his winger broke the line... Bastareaud was back 30m.

This game is going to be a bore fest, France can win it, but not easily. It will be a ruck war.

Couilloud is good though.

Just chatted with a friend who is a former top level rugby player... He just said "so, you're lining up Bastareaud. Tonight is going to be a league game". Sums it up.

Meh. He doesn't have the pace/fitness to be on the shoulder of a fast runner breaking the line in the last 20 minutes of a game and shouldn't be left defending in space 1v1 against a nimble runner, but Basta can carry, pass, crash the ball taking 2/3 defenders with him, half-decently offload, occasionally kick, and, more preciously, he can steal the ball at the ruck. He also rarely disappoints in terms of effort. Considering France isn't exactly awash in world-class centres or turnover specialists and that I'd be surprised if anyone broke the line in the first place, he's as good an option as any other we've seen so far.

Toulon's Not Toulouse wrote:Meh. He doesn't have the pace/fitness to be on the shoulder of a fast runner breaking the line in the last 20 minutes of a game and shouldn't be left defending in space 1v1 against a nimble runner, but Basta can carry, pass, crash the ball taking 2/3 defenders with him, half-decently offload, occasionally kick, and, more preciously, he can steal the ball at the ruck. He also rarely disappoints in terms of effort. Considering France isn't exactly awash in world-class centres or turnover specialists and that I'd be surprised if anyone broke the line in the first place, he's as good an option as any other we've seen so far.

I don't doubt Bastareaud's commitment and he has often been one of the more dedicated players on the pitch for France. He is good to provide 2/3 turn-overs per game as well.

But he is awefully limited and at international level, he doesn't have the impact he may have in the Top14.

TheFrog wrote:

Toulon's Not Toulouse wrote:Meh. He doesn't have the pace/fitness to be on the shoulder of a fast runner breaking the line in the last 20 minutes of a game and shouldn't be left defending in space 1v1 against a nimble runner, but Basta can carry, pass, crash the ball taking 2/3 defenders with him, half-decently offload, occasionally kick, and, more preciously, he can steal the ball at the ruck. He also rarely disappoints in terms of effort. Considering France isn't exactly awash in world-class centres or turnover specialists and that I'd be surprised if anyone broke the line in the first place, he's as good an option as any other we've seen so far.

I don't doubt Bastareaud's commitment and he has often been one of the more dedicated players on the pitch for France. He is good to provide 2/3 turn-overs per game as well.

But he is awefully limited and at international level, he doesn't have the impact he may have in the Top14.

Absolutely.

He rarely gets less than 10 out of 10 for effort and what he does he tends to do very well, but he's just too limited for a modern centre...

clementinfrance wrote:

TheFrog wrote:

Toulon's Not Toulouse wrote:Meh. He doesn't have the pace/fitness to be on the shoulder of a fast runner breaking the line in the last 20 minutes of a game and shouldn't be left defending in space 1v1 against a nimble runner, but Basta can carry, pass, crash the ball taking 2/3 defenders with him, half-decently offload, occasionally kick, and, more preciously, he can steal the ball at the ruck. He also rarely disappoints in terms of effort. Considering France isn't exactly awash in world-class centres or turnover specialists and that I'd be surprised if anyone broke the line in the first place, he's as good an option as any other we've seen so far.

I don't doubt Bastareaud's commitment and he has often been one of the more dedicated players on the pitch for France. He is good to provide 2/3 turn-overs per game as well.

But he is awefully limited and at international level, he doesn't have the impact he may have in the Top14.

Absolutely.

He rarely gets less than 10 out of 10 for effort and what he does he tends to do very well, but he's just too limited for a modern centre...

He'd be very limited if he played in the forwards as well.

This could become Dork's own Hey Theo.

Torquemada 1420 wrote:This could become Dork's own Hey Theo.

Part of me hopes so, in order to quicken the decline and maybe bring about drastic change that would ensure a far brighter future for French rugby.

Having said this we'll probably scrape a win and simply further prolong the agony.

clementinfrance wrote:

Torquemada 1420 wrote:This could become Dork's own Hey Theo.

Part of me hopes so, in order to quicken the decline and maybe bring about drastic change that would ensure a far brighter future for French rugby.

Having said this we'll probably scrape a win and simply further prolong the agony.

Sadly true.

I was so disinterested, I didn't even know it was on tonight.

Not 3 minutes and a first Basta turnover.

Toulon's Not Toulouse wrote:Not 3 minutes and a first Basta turnover.

More contribution than Lamerat in all his games.

So, can we have an end to calls for Lamerat? He simply doesn't have what it takes at intl level. Whatever else, Basta is not a frightened rabbit at this level.

Torquemada 1420 wrote:So, can we have an end to calls for Lamerat? He simply doesn't have what it takes at intl level. Whatever else, Basta is not a frightened rabbit at this level.

First of all, Bastareaud only played against Italy so far. Let's wait and see what he does against England.

If the "frighten" rabbit a reference to Lamerat?

To me, and with all the respect due to Bastareaud who was full of commitment and played the best he could, the fact that he becomes an obvious choice at center sums up the weakness of French rugby. When your best center is just a heavy ball of muscles... then this tells me your rugby is very limited.

And again, no disrespect to Basta who deserves acclaims for.being the best French on the pitch.

TheFrog wrote:

Torquemada 1420 wrote:So, can we have an end to calls for Lamerat? He simply doesn't have what it takes at intl level. Whatever else, Basta is not a frightened rabbit at this level.

First of all, Bastareaud only played against Italy so far. Let's wait and see what he does against England.

If the "frighten" rabbit a reference to Lamerat?

To me, and with all the respect due to Bastareaud who was full of commitment and played the best he could, the fact that he becomes an obvious choice at center sums up the weakness of French rugby. When your best center is just a heavy ball of muscles... then this tells me your rugby is very limited.

And again, no disrespect to Basta who deserves acclaims for.being the best French on the pitch.

It's not just one game. Lamerat has bottled it EVERY game he has played for France. I am not even suggesting Basta should be selected: just that it puts Lamerat in correct perspective.

Agree on the rest though.

TheFrog wrote: To me, and with all the respect due to Bastareaud who was full of commitment and played the best he could, the fact that he becomes an obvious choice at center sums up the weakness of French rugby. When your best center is just a heavy ball of muscles... then this tells me your rugby is very limited.

And again, no disrespect to Basta who deserves acclaims for.being the best French on the pitch.

He impressed me though. He's become a very intelligent player, who enables others to play around him. Actually a very good inside center now. Have you seen his offloads? his ability to find gaps, run around the tackler to free his arms?

It's actually pretty touching to see how he seems to have developped as a man. He's grown in confidence and solidity, he's struggled and had issues with himself, it's been tough. He could make a great team captain I think.

Well, that was poor.

And Italy were shite too.

We had to kick those penaties to ensure a victory at home against Italy.

Stadium was not even close to be full despite the cameras best attempts at pretending otherwise.

Xupi wrote:

TheFrog wrote: To me, and with all the respect due to Bastareaud who was full of commitment and played the best he could, the fact that he becomes an obvious choice at center sums up the weakness of French rugby. When your best center is just a heavy ball of muscles... then this tells me your rugby is very limited.

And again, no disrespect to Basta who deserves acclaims for.being the best French on the pitch.

He impressed me though. He's become a very intelligent player, who enables others to play around him. Actually a very good inside center now. Have you seen his offloads? his ability to find gaps, run around the tackler to free his arms?

It's actually pretty touching to see how he seems to have developped as a man. He's grown in confidence and solidity, he's struggled and had issues with himself, it's been tough. He could make a great team captain I think.

Yup, he has grown a lot as a player and, it seems, as a person. It's been interesting to watch him develop at Toulon, he's one of those players that picks up on the guys around him. His turnover technique picked up while he was playing alongside Steffon and his quick pass/offload became a thing after Nonu joined. He's doing way more than he's being given credit for but still keeps his head down and work. It's only a bad Italy obviously, but it says a lot that he managed to shine despite being so obviously targeted by the defense. He's got limits, sure, but we don't live in a world where we can clone a peak Jauzion or two for every game.

TheFrog wrote:

Torquemada 1420 wrote:So, can we have an end to calls for Lamerat? He simply doesn't have what it takes at intl level. Whatever else, Basta is not a frightened rabbit at this level.

First of all, Bastareaud only played against Italy so far. Let's wait and see what he does against England.

If the "frighten" rabbit a reference to Lamerat?

To me, and with all the respect due to Bastareaud who was full of commitment and played the best he could, the fact that he becomes an obvious choice at center sums up the weakness of French rugby. When your best center is just a heavy ball of muscles... then this tells me your rugby is very limited.

And again, no disrespect to Basta who deserves acclaims for.being the best French on the pitch.

Agreed.

I disagree with Torque about Lamerat who was poor in the previous games (he's obviously still coming back from his injury) but had a very good 6N last year.

Lamerat always gives 100% and has a lot of talent. Alongside Penaud, Danty and maybe Fickou he is the future for France.

Torquemada 1420 wrote:This could become Dork's own Hey Theo.

what's a Hey Theo ?

Torquemada 1420 wrote: It's not just one game. Lamerat has bottled it EVERY game he has played for France. I am not even suggesting Basta should be selected: just that it puts Lamerat in correct perspective.

Agree on the rest though.

He was good during that whole 2016/early 2017 period, June in Arg and Autumn int'ls in particular.

France are limited in the midfield ? Fofana is one of the most precious commodities to have on your team in the modern game, a top defender one of the classiest finishers of his generation and practically untouchable at times ball in hand. You put him and Penaud, or him and Danty and you've got one of the most potent pairs in the world that just need 2-3 games together. Chavancy is damn good at his best too, excellent defender, a powerful battering ram with a pass. Lamerat has been bad since the injury but certainly belongs if you compare him to the centers the other 6N countries play, and Bastareaud is no scrub and tag him a mere bulldozer at your own risk.

I'm not even mentioning others like Yann David, Mermoz or Dumoulin who've fallen off the radar, Fickou Doumayrou talented but need to work, Vakatawa who's fantastic at 13, Aguillon, or up-&-comers in Reilhac, Regard, Belan or Vialele. And there's the U20 youngsters who are awfully promising.
Apart from NZ, which nation has more wealth or choice than France ? Who ??

clementinfrance wrote:
I disagree with Torque about Lamerat who was poor in the previous games (he's obviously still coming back from his injury) but had a very good 6N last year.

Lamerat always gives 100% and has a lot of talent. Alongside Penaud, Danty and maybe Fickou he is the future for France.

Bill Shankley (manager of all conquering Liverpool) used to say "the first 2ft are in the top 2 inches".

At this level, ALL the players could do it but only those with the intelligence and composure can do it when it matters. Lamerat is not one of those. Basta has made himself into one. Lamerat will never show his potential at intl level. Basta has maxed his out.

So yeah, Lamerat gives 100% but too often it's in the wrong direction. Too many better options for me to waste any more time to work out, like Huget, it's a failed experiment.