Planet Rugby Forum

Heymans wrote:

lexpat wrote:60k€

70. Obscene.

Laurent wrote:

Torquemada 1420 wrote:

Toulon's Not Toulouse wrote:On a tangent, how fcuking amazing is Lawes tackling? Reminds me a lot of Chabal in having both a big athletic frame and such good technique. I'm glad I'm not the one fielded on the pitch to run at him.

Pity his torpedo (which ended Plisson's career as an intl) wasn't against Huget or Parra.

he did against Para when he was at bourgoin

slightly late as usual...

Petrus wrote:Can you quote the english press regarding Eddie Jones selections after some games last year ? I can ! Who was the english number 7 in the Paris game last year ?

Torquemada 1420 wrote:

Heymans wrote:

lexpat wrote:60k€

70. Obscene.

The pay or his waistline?

Heymans wrote:

Torquemada 1420 wrote:

Heymans wrote:

lexpat wrote:60k€

70. Obscene.

The pay or his waistline?

Les deux mon capitaine.

Petrus wrote:So we can agree if France had a decent coach (i.e. not a Frenchman) who could make sensible selections, impose a modicum of fitness and humility into players and get players to stick to basic tactics we all learned at the age of 12.......

Torquemada 1420 wrote:

Petrus wrote:Can you quote the english press regarding Eddie Jones selections after some games last year ? I can ! Who was the english number 7 in the Paris game last year ?

Robshaw is also interesting. Eng has dicked around with 6 1/2s for years now instead of a proper 6 and 7. And it has repeatedly killed them, especially against serious operators like Pocock. But they have finally learned.

How many caps has Huget..........? Or Medard............?

What is your point re the English press? That they are intolerant? Rather than the toadying we have seen from the likes of Bernol and l'Equipe for almost 20 years.

Toulon's Not Toulouse wrote:On a tangent, how fcuking amazing is Lawes tackling? Reminds me a lot of Chabal in having both a big athletic frame and such good technique. I'm glad I'm not the one fielded on the pitch to run at him.

Laurent wrote:

Petrus wrote:So we can agree if France had a decent coach (i.e. not a Frenchman) who could make sensible selections, impose a modicum of fitness and humility into players and get players to stick to basic tactics we all learned at the age of 12.......

You mean Jack White, or Michael Cheika by example ?

Heymans wrote:

lexpat wrote:60k€

70. Obscene.

julian wrote:

Toulon's Not Toulouse wrote:On a tangent, how fcuking amazing is Lawes tackling? Reminds me a lot of Chabal in having both a big athletic frame and such good technique. I'm glad I'm not the one fielded on the pitch to run at him.

France has had many much better by several miles centres than Bastareaud and Lawes tackle had nothing special, Pumas made several big hits on Bastareaud in the past and never received much press, here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtT2OqZfwJk

As much as I love the french team (an inspiration for Argentina for decades) what I see is that the old french proud has been replaced by insipid foreign players.

France must return to its origins, strong characters on the pitch.

lexpat wrote:

julian wrote:

Toulon's Not Toulouse wrote:On a tangent, how fcuking amazing is Lawes tackling? Reminds me a lot of Chabal in having both a big athletic frame and such good technique. I'm glad I'm not the one fielded on the pitch to run at him.

France has had many much better by several miles centres than Bastareaud and Lawes tackle had nothing special, Pumas made several big hits on Bastareaud in the past and never received much press, here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtT2OqZfwJk

As much as I love the french team (an inspiration for Argentina for decades) what I see is that the old french proud has been replaced by insipid foreign players.

France must return to its origins, strong characters on the pitch.

If it's about the French team, they had only 2 foreign born players in the squad,England had 7
As for the Top14 things are changing or at least on its way.
It's the game that changed and we didn't adjust.

Torquemada 1420 wrote:So we can agree if France had a decent coach (i.e. not a Frenchman) who could make sensible selections, impose a modicum of fitness and humility into players and get players to stick to basic tactics we all learned at the age of 12....... France won't become world beaters but should be higher than 10 in the world? Yes? Progress?

Clouseau wrote:

Heymans wrote:

lexpat wrote:60k€

70. Obscene.

Do you mean the pay is obscene or you don't consider him worth 70k€?

Petrus wrote:So we can agree if France had a decent coach (i.e. not a Frenchman) who could make sensible selections, impose a modicum of fitness and humility into players and get players to stick to basic tactics we all learned at the age of 12.......

Clouseau wrote:

Heymans wrote:

lexpat wrote:60k€

70. Obscene.

Do you mean the pay is obscene or you don't consider him worth 70k€?

Torquemada 1420 wrote:

Petrus wrote:So we can agree if France had a decent coach (i.e. not a Frenchman) who could make sensible selections, impose a modicum of fitness and humility into players and get players to stick to basic tactics we all learned at the age of 12.......

You mean Jack White, or Michael Cheika by example ?

julian wrote:

Toulon's Not Toulouse wrote:On a tangent, how fcuking amazing is Lawes tackling? Reminds me a lot of Chabal in having both a big athletic frame and such good technique. I'm glad I'm not the one fielded on the pitch to run at him.

France has had many much better by several miles centres than Bastareaud and Lawes tackle had nothing special, Pumas made several big hits on Bastareaud in the past and never received much press, here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtT2OqZfwJk

As much as I love the french team (an inspiration for Argentina for decades) what I see is that the old french proud has been replaced by insipid foreign players.

France must return to its origins, strong characters on the pitch.

Torquemada 1420 wrote:English media slaughter's France

Rugby is a sport for specialists. The back 3 was composed of converted players. England knew it, and Owen Farrell slaughtered them with kicks of all kinds.

It can be said that England was well helped by the aberrant selection of the French back 3, by the fact that many of its players are not in good shape, or that France did not have a game plan.

Jacques Brunel must go and France get a foreign coach. Even an Englishman.

Brunel looked for trouble, and that's what he got. Ireland had suffered last week in debuting centre Henshaw at FB. The lesson of selecting a specialist in number 15 was crystal clear. Except for the French.

One of the largest sports nations has sent its national team for a crucial match. They may just as well have not come. There was no match. It was more of a crash than a Crunch. Our visitors were shit. In Twickenham, a famous sporting rivalry has been reduced to a painful Stations of the Cross.

This team from France without a spine is the worst I've ever seen. France did not exist. It would be a waste of time to try to improve this team. There is no base on which to work, no spine. Does anyone know what their game plan was? Had this team already trained together? There is no proof in the way France has tried to play. There was no strategy to slow down the English. In the battle of the rucks, the main battle zone, there was no battle.

Top one for Frog who, like Fre coaches, thinks you can shunt players around positions and expect to beat decent opposition. Especially Iturria at rucks..... like I said, he'd be totally ineffective at the offensive tackle or making turnovers but hey, he can do a chistera.

Heymans wrote:

TheFrog wrote:I find it hard to believe that French players are just plain lazy and French coaches stupid.

This sounds to me like the armchair fan pissing on everything without knowing.

I can't see how French clubs could have made it to the European Cup final without a bit of professionalism.


What I find interesting on the other hand is that Welsh Provinces are piss poor yet Wales manage to hold their ground at international level.

This raises a lot of unanswered questions for me.

You haven't seen what I've seen then. I know its hard to believe but some players of the french national team would genuinely struggle with any kind of qualified work.

Torquemada 1420 wrote:

Clouseau wrote:

Torquemada 1420 wrote:And anyway, that returns to the point I was making earlier about fatigue etc. How does Jones make Eng a top 3 side with his resources and Noves/Brunel make theirs 10th with at least as good resources.....?

Well I guess because Eddie Jones is a top Australian international coach (who still managed to finish behind France last year) and Brunel is at best a Top14 coach who never should have been appointed in the first place? I think we all agree with that.

OK. We, at least, make progress in this virtual coaching world.

Yes, there are questions on how hard Jones drives his players and I have said I will watch with interest to see if Eng tires as the comp unfolds BUT what you can see with Eng is progress. It is not a straight line, but it is up. France is 100% the opposite.

So we can agree if France had a decent coach (i.e. not a Frenchman) who could make sensible selections, impose a modicum of fitness and humility into players and get players to stick to basic tactics we all learned at the age of 12....... France won't become world beaters but should be higher than 10 in the world? Yes? Progress?

Petrus wrote:

julian wrote:

Toulon's Not Toulouse wrote:On a tangent, how fcuking amazing is Lawes tackling? Reminds me a lot of Chabal in having both a big athletic frame and such good technique. I'm glad I'm not the one fielded on the pitch to run at him.

France has had many much better by several miles centres than Bastareaud and Lawes tackle had nothing special, Pumas made several big hits on Bastareaud in the past and never received much press, here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtT2OqZfwJk

As much as I love the french team (an inspiration for Argentina for decades) what I see is that the old french proud has been replaced by insipid foreign players.

France must return to its origins, strong characters on the pitch.

What do you meanby insipid foreign players ? In Top 14 ? I for one, was happy to see Albacete, Ledesma, Hernandez, Fernandez Lobbe, Imhoff, Dominguez and so many others play in it....

julian wrote:

Toulon's Not Toulouse wrote:On a tangent, how fcuking amazing is Lawes tackling? Reminds me a lot of Chabal in having both a big athletic frame and such good technique. I'm glad I'm not the one fielded on the pitch to run at him.

France has had many much better by several miles centres than Bastareaud and Lawes tackle had nothing special, Pumas made several big hits on Bastareaud in the past and never received much press, here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtT2OqZfwJk

As much as I love the french team (an inspiration for Argentina for decades) what I see is that the old french proud has been replaced by insipid foreign players.

France must return to its origins, strong characters on the pitch.

Petrus wrote:

Torquemada 1420 wrote:

Petrus wrote:So we can agree if France had a decent coach (i.e. not a Frenchman) who could make sensible selections, impose a modicum of fitness and humility into players and get players to stick to basic tactics we all learned at the age of 12.......

You mean Jack White, or Michael Cheika by example ?

Point to where I said EVERY foreign coach was good. What we are saying is every French coach is crap (relatively i.e. success in your own pond does not count).

Puma wrote:

Petrus wrote:

julian wrote:

Toulon's Not Toulouse wrote:On a tangent, how fcuking amazing is Lawes tackling? Reminds me a lot of Chabal in having both a big athletic frame and such good technique. I'm glad I'm not the one fielded on the pitch to run at him.

France has had many much better by several miles centres than Bastareaud and Lawes tackle had nothing special, Pumas made several big hits on Bastareaud in the past and never received much press, here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtT2OqZfwJk

As much as I love the french team (an inspiration for Argentina for decades) what I see is that the old french proud has been replaced by insipid foreign players.

France must return to its origins, strong characters on the pitch.

What do you meanby insipid foreign players ? In Top 14 ? I for one, was happy to see Albacete, Ledesma, Hernandez, Fernandez Lobbe, Imhoff, Dominguez and so many others play in it....

I don't think you could call any of those bolded names "insipid"... but other argentine players have been.

And the Tongan / Samoan / Fijian-by-the-dozen who can now be found even at Promotion D'Honneur level clubs (I've reffed a few during my time in Ile de France...) padding the ranks of the top clubs and blocking the path of french youngsters because the clubs are more interesed in winning the next match than in developing for the medium / long term and you have a recipe for disaster.

Torquemada 1420 wrote:Parra is paid a load more than Owen Farrell

TheFrog wrote: Iturria is not selected for his breakdown ability, he is used as a lineout man and a link player. The question is why Camara for Lauret. May be because LaMoustache relied on Bastareaud to do the job.

In the battle of the rucks, the main battle zone, there was no battle.

Clouseau wrote:

Torquemada 1420 wrote:Parra is paid a load more than Owen Farrell

You sure ? Farrell's on £750,000 a year apparently.

Torquemada 1420 wrote:

TheFrog wrote: Iturria is not selected for his breakdown ability, he is used as a lineout man and a link player. The question is why Camara for Lauret. May be because LaMoustache relied on Bastareaud to do the job.

Yes. I know. But the most important part of the game now is the breakdown and has been for some years. Lose that and you have little hope of winning the game.

In the battle of the rucks, the main battle zone, there was no battle.

Iturria is next to invisible as a breakdown exponent so he becomes an expensive luxury.

Also agree on Camara/Lauret. On the match thread, I was asked what my Fre 15 would be and I commented that I would keep Lauret because he is a specialist fetcher. The big question is What TF anyone sees in Camara over Macalou who, incidentally, can do everything Iturria does as a flank, only a dozen times better.

TheFrog wrote:Nick Mallet anyone?

Torquemada 1420 wrote:

TheFrog wrote: Iturria is not selected for his breakdown ability, he is used as a lineout man and a link player. The question is why Camara for Lauret. May be because LaMoustache relied on Bastareaud to do the job.

Yes. I know. But the most important part of the game now is the breakdown and has been for some years. Lose that and you have little hope of winning the game.

In the battle of the rucks, the main battle zone, there was no battle.

Iturria is next to invisible as a breakdown exponent so he becomes an expensive luxury.

Also agree on Camara/Lauret. On the match thread, I was asked what my Fre 15 would be and I commented that I would keep Lauret because he is a specialist fetcher. The big question is What TF anyone sees in Camara over Macalou who, incidentally, can do everything Iturria does as a flank, only a dozen times better.

Petrus wrote:

julian wrote:

Toulon's Not Toulouse wrote:On a tangent, how fcuking amazing is Lawes tackling? Reminds me a lot of Chabal in having both a big athletic frame and such good technique. I'm glad I'm not the one fielded on the pitch to run at him.

France has had many much better by several miles centres than Bastareaud and Lawes tackle had nothing special, Pumas made several big hits on Bastareaud in the past and never received much press, here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtT2OqZfwJk

As much as I love the french team (an inspiration for Argentina for decades) what I see is that the old french proud has been replaced by insipid foreign players.

France must return to its origins, strong characters on the pitch.

What do you meanby insipid foreign players ? In Top 14 ? I for one, was happy to see Albacete, Ledesma, Hernandez, Fernandez Lobbe, Imhoff, Dominguez and so many others play in it....

Rugby2023 wrote:

TheFrog wrote:Nick Mallet anyone?

Good coach, but he has been out of the game for a while now.

Cotter seems like a good fit. He achieved quite a bit with Scotland imo.

julian wrote:

Petrus wrote:

julian wrote:

Toulon's Not Toulouse wrote:On a tangent, how fcuking amazing is Lawes tackling? Reminds me a lot of Chabal in having both a big athletic frame and such good technique. I'm glad I'm not the one fielded on the pitch to run at him.

France has had many much better by several miles centres than Bastareaud and Lawes tackle had nothing special, Pumas made several big hits on Bastareaud in the past and never received much press, here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtT2OqZfwJk

As much as I love the french team (an inspiration for Argentina for decades) what I see is that the old french proud has been replaced by insipid foreign players.

France must return to its origins, strong characters on the pitch.

What do you meanby insipid foreign players ? In Top 14 ? I for one, was happy to see Albacete, Ledesma, Hernandez, Fernandez Lobbe, Imhoff, Dominguez and so many others play in it....

Mais non!, I was referring to the french national team full of bloodless players (some foreign).

petrus wrote:
Apart Willemse, which are foreign born and play rugby elsewhere ?

Petrus wrote:Ok. Can you tell me which players in the Under 20 french team of the last 10 years did not have any chance to show how good they were in Top 14 or Pro D 2 (means playing less than 40 games) ? Maybe they were not good enough or paid too much at a young age because they were JIFF and not realy hungry enough ? How can you explain that so many georgian props are good enough to play in french pro rugby and no french ? They are hungry, very hungry.

Just to give you an idea , the french team who won the under 21 world cup in 2006 :
Thomas Domingo, Yohan Montès, Laurent Cabarry, Florian Cazalot, Damien Weber
Talonneur Guilhem Guirado, Arnaud Héguy, Laurent Sempéré
Deuxième ligne Denys Drozdz, Loïc Jacquet, Julien Le Devedec
Troisième ligne aile Fulgence Ouedraogo, Steve Malonga, Fabien Alexandre, Nicolas Bontinck
Troisième ligne centre Damien Chouly, Aurélien Béco
Arrières Demi de mêlée Fabien Cibray, Christophe Clarac, Sébastien Tillous-Borde, Julien Tomas
Demi d'ouverture Lionel Beauxis, Camille Fourt Arteaga
Centre Thierry Brana, Thibault Lacroix, Maxime Mermoz, Arnaud Mignardi, Grégory Puyo
Ailier Matthieu Bourret, Jacques Boussuge, Florian Denos, Yann Fior
Arrière Maxime Médard


Never given a chance ? And how many great players ?

TheFrog wrote:There must be a reason Macalou is so far in the pecking order. I haven't watched enough of him to answer that question.

lexpat wrote:

petrus wrote:
Apart Willemse, which are foreign born and play rugby elsewhere ?

Atonio, didn't play this weekend
Bamba
Huget

Petrus wrote:

lexpat wrote:

petrus wrote:
Apart Willemse, which are foreign born and play rugby elsewhere ?

Atonio, didn't play this weekend
Bamba
Huget

Where did Bamba and Huget played rugby before playing in France ? I did not know that Saint Denis and Pamiers were not in France. That is the place where they were born and start playing....