Planet Rugby Forum

Laurent wrote:

Petrus wrote:

lexpat wrote:

petrus wrote:
Apart Willemse, which are foreign born and play rugby elsewhere ?

Atonio, didn't play this weekend
Bamba
Huget

Where did Bamba and Huget played rugby before playing in France ? I did not know that Saint Denis and Pamiers were not in France. That is the place where they were born and start playing....

Pamiers is in Mexico

I dont come often enough on this forum.I learn a lot....

Torquemada 1420 wrote:

TheFrog wrote:There must be a reason Macalou is so far in the pecking order. I haven't watched enough of him to answer that question.

Yes.

There is a reason the selectors think Parra and Serin are better than Dupont too.

The same reason that some posters on this forum thought that Bezy was a great player in the making probably...Nobody is perfect...

What is our depth on the wing? Is there a reason why LaMoustache selected two centers in this position?

TheFrog wrote:What is our depth on the wing?

Thomas is injured.

Toulon's Not Toulouse wrote:

TheFrog wrote:What is our depth on the wing?

Thomas is injured.

TheFrog wrote:

Toulon's Not Toulouse wrote:

TheFrog wrote:What is our depth on the wing?

Thomas is injured.

That does not answer the question. And by the way, i dont follow that every week, it looks tlike Penaud plays sometimes on the wing for Clermont... After checking, 8 games on 12 starts in Top 14 this season...So I suppose that if he had been picked in the center, everybody would complain about him being picked out of position.

Petrus wrote:

TheFrog wrote:

Toulon's Not Toulouse wrote:

TheFrog wrote:What is our depth on the wing?

Thomas is injured.

That does not answer the question. And by the way, i dont follow that every week, it looks tlike Penaud plays sometimes on the wing for Clermont... After checking, 8 games on 12 starts in Top 14 this season...So I suppose that if he had been picked in the center, everybody would complain about him being picked out of position.

Penaud has been moved to the wing (like Iturria to flanker) at the request of the French staff. Azema cooperates with the French team

Petrus wrote:

Torquemada 1420 wrote:

TheFrog wrote:There must be a reason Macalou is so far in the pecking order. I haven't watched enough of him to answer that question.

Yes.

There is a reason the selectors think Parra and Serin are better than Dupont too.

The same reason that some posters on this forum thought that Bezy was a great player in the making probably...Nobody is perfect...

And Doussain ! Let's not forget Doussain.

Laurent wrote:

Petrus wrote:

lexpat wrote:

petrus wrote:
Apart Willemse, which are foreign born and play rugby elsewhere ?

Atonio, didn't play this weekend
Bamba
Huget

Where did Bamba and Huget played rugby before playing in France ? I did not know that Saint Denis and Pamiers were not in France. That is the place where they were born and start playing....

Pamiers is in Mexico

Apologies for Bamba, I really thought he was born in Mauritania,his parents were, saint Denis is correct , even though when you see what's happen there you wonder.
As Laurent said huget is a Mexican ....for us.

TheFrog wrote:

Petrus wrote:

TheFrog wrote:

Toulon's Not Toulouse wrote:

TheFrog wrote:What is our depth on the wing?

Thomas is injured.

That does not answer the question. And by the way, i dont follow that every week, it looks tlike Penaud plays sometimes on the wing for Clermont... After checking, 8 games on 12 starts in Top 14 this season...So I suppose that if he had been picked in the center, everybody would complain about him being picked out of position.

Penaud has been moved to the wing (like Iturria to flanker) at the request of the French staff. Azema cooperates with the French team

And so, who are the fantastic french wings that Brunel the idiot do not want to pick ?

Petrus wrote:And so, who are the fantastic french wings that Brunel the idiot do not want to pick ?

It's pretty scarce… There's Grosso but not a great fan. A "bon porteur de ballon" as we used to say. When he manages to hang on to it.

Back three really is a problem.

Petrus wrote:
And so, who are the fantastic french wings that Brunel the idiot do not want to pick ?

That is precisely my point. There is much crowing about Brunel relying on two centers to play on the wing, and a winger to play fullback, but I am not sure he has a million choices.

I think he feared starting Ramos at 15 and was hoping Huget experience would be a safer option.

And then on the wing... It is a big desert in France... Look at the French selections on the wing over the last years... It shows... We bet on a few Fijians, but Nakaitaci hasn't really recovered from last World Cup humiliation. Wakatawa has moved to center (where he plays well these days) and Raka who is French now was injured. Thomas is the other winger name that springs to mind, and I am not convinced he is very safe under the high ball, or defensively...

So... I really don't think it is just about Brunel being clueless. Much like Noves was supposed to be clueless before that.

For the French on here, here is a list of the back 3 players selected there over the last 4 years:

Benjamin Fall
Yoan Huget
Wesley Fofana
Brice Dulin
Gael Fickou
Hugo Bonneval
Scott Spedding
Teddy Thomas
Noa Nakaitaci
Remy Grosso
Virimi Vakatawa
Djibril Camara
Xavier Mignot
Damian Penaud
Nans Ducuing
Gabriel Lacroix
Geoffrey Palis

So quite a lot of players have been tested. Not sure which one stood out as world class.

What on earth happened to Lacroix by the way? He was the next big thing (excuse the pun) and seemed to have disappeared from the radars.

Torque, you will love this!!

https://video.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/xv-de- ... ideo.shtml

Dupont at 10, Parra at 9

And for French Fan, another man who calls to be cautious about the Dupont miracle while acknowledging the boy did weel:
https://video.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/6-nati ... ideo.shtml

TheFrog wrote:For the French on here, here is a list of the back 3 players selected there over the last 4 years:

Benjamin Fall
Yoan Huget
Wesley Fofana
Brice Dulin
Gael Fickou
Hugo Bonneval
Scott Spedding
Teddy Thomas
Noa Nakaitaci
Remy Grosso
Virimi Vakatawa
Djibril Camara
Xavier Mignot
Damian Penaud
Nans Ducuing
Gabriel Lacroix
Geoffrey Palis

So quite a lot of players have been tested. Not sure which one stood out as world class.

What on earth happened to Lacroix by the way? He was the next big thing (excuse the pun) and seemed to have disappeared from the radars.

just back got broken in Test match

Hi all,

Been a while, etc...

Let's not underestimate the outstanding level of this current England team. We were all baffled by what they achieved vs the Irish in Dublin, we were of course going to get minced. They did it with so much ruthless precision and skill and speed, it was incredible to see.

There is nothing new under the sun, we're just at the same level we have been for the past decade more or less.

I love the new Stade Toulousain and our crop of young players, they're a joy to watch and they're bloody good. But they are over-estimated. Guys like Ramos, N'Tamack, Aldegheri, to name a few, are not international material and I don't see them ever being top-level players on the world scene.

We are appalling at kicking the damn ball and at catching it in the air, we've always been to be honest, but now that other nations actually work a lot in that respect, we've become miserable under high balls and in the kicking game play.

The poor state of our rugby was symbolized by Parra/Dupont aimlessly kicking the ball from the back of their ruck without even seeing the field, while Farrell was facing the field and calmly placing the ball wherever he wanted, without any defensive pressure. Incredible contrast, that was.

On this, I wish you a pleasant evening !

Xup

Xupi wrote:Hi all,

Been a while, etc...

Let's not underestimate the outstanding level of this current England team. We were all baffled by what they achieved vs the Irish in Dublin, we were of course going to get minced. They did it with so much ruthless precision and skill and speed, it was incredible to see.

There is nothing new under the sun, we're just at the same level we have been for the past decade more or less.

I love the new Stade Toulousain and our crop of young players, they're a joy to watch and they're bloody good. But they are over-estimated. Guys like Ramos, N'Tamack, Aldegheri, to name a few, are not international material and I don't see them ever being top-level players on the world scene.

We are appalling at kicking the damn ball and at catching it in the air, we've always been to be honest, but now that other nations actually work a lot in that respect, we've become miserable under high balls and in the kicking game play.

The poor state of our rugby was symbolized by Parra/Dupont aimlessly kicking the ball from the back of their ruck without even seeing the field, while Farrell was facing the field and calmly placing the ball wherever he wanted, without any defensive pressure. Incredible contrast, that was.

On this, I wish you a pleasant evening !

Xup

Farell was playing very far from the advantage line and that gave him plenty of time.

The French relied on their scrum-halves to clear, and they were under pressure from the defense.

Talking about players out of position : Elliott Daly has played only two games this season as a full back with Wasps, and 13 either at centre or on the wing. Strangley, nobody criticize Eddie Jones for his choice. When you win, you are always right !

Another excption to the rule who says : top 14 coaches do not give their chance to young players and prefer to take the safe option by picking a southern hemsiphere player. There is at least one young player (20 years old) who has never played top level rugby before september 2018, do not come from french academies, but has been the automatic choice as loose head prop in a top french club. And nobody had heard about him six months ago. When you are good enough, you are old enough. Easy to find his name.

We are going to work hard not to finish at the bottom. In the short term, we need characters with a wining mentality, in the Babillot mould.

Give a chance to the young guys should be the modus operandi now.

Une Assemblée générale exceptionnelle est plus que nécessaire...

Laurent wrote:Une Assemblée générale exceptionnelle est plus que nécessaire...

On invite qui?

Je ne m'assois pas à la même table que Laporte, je te previens.

La soule wrote:

Laurent wrote:Une Assemblée générale exceptionnelle est plus que nécessaire...

On invite qui?

Je ne m'assois pas à la même table que Laporte, je te previens.

Pourquoi inviter les escrocs ?

Le but c'est de faire place nette.

Petrus wrote:Another excption to the rule who says : top 14 coaches do not give their chance to young players and prefer to take the safe option by picking a southern hemsiphere player. There is at least one young player (20 years old) who has never played top level rugby before september 2018, do not come from french academies, but has been the automatic choice as loose head prop in a top french club. And nobody had heard about him six months ago. When you are good enough, you are old enough. Easy to find his name.

Youngsters do get their chances more and more in the T14, just look at Stade Toulousain. The quota policy, which I had advocated for a decade, is finally bringing its fruits. At least we have more French names and faces in our clubs, and I hope it continues.

Xupi wrote:

Petrus wrote:Another excption to the rule who says : top 14 coaches do not give their chance to young players and prefer to take the safe option by picking a southern hemsiphere player. There is at least one young player (20 years old) who has never played top level rugby before september 2018, do not come from french academies, but has been the automatic choice as loose head prop in a top french club. And nobody had heard about him six months ago. When you are good enough, you are old enough. Easy to find his name.

Youngsters do get their chances more and more in the T14, just look at Stade Toulousain. The quota policy, which I had advocated for a decade, is finally bringing its fruits. At least we have more French names and faces in our clubs, and I hope it continues.

The problem is,the guy i refer to is not french. And how we cannot get youngster of this kind is the question. Maybe a question of hunger...

Xupi wrote:

Petrus wrote:Another excption to the rule who says : top 14 coaches do not give their chance to young players and prefer to take the safe option by picking a southern hemsiphere player. There is at least one young player (20 years old) who has never played top level rugby before september 2018, do not come from french academies, but has been the automatic choice as loose head prop in a top french club. And nobody had heard about him six months ago. When you are good enough, you are old enough. Easy to find his name.

Youngsters do get their chances more and more in the T14, just look at Stade Toulousain. The quota policy, which I had advocated for a decade, is finally bringing its fruits. At least we have more French names and faces in our clubs, and I hope it continues.

It will, it looks like we'll see less of the Nanu, Nadolo etc. and more of the French youths as some clubs/ academies like ST, UBB, Clermont even RCT are doing.
We might have the sudaf second roe and the Georgian props for a while though.

Petrus wrote: The problem is,the guy i refer to is not french. And how we cannot get youngster of this kind is the question. Maybe a question of hunger...

Hunger, you mean like the hunger of the French youths from ST who qualified from the pool of death beating back-to-back Wasps and Bath?

TheFrog wrote:

Rugby2023 wrote:

TheFrog wrote:Nick Mallet anyone?

Good coach, but he has been out of the game for a while now.

Cotter seems like a good fit. He achieved quite a bit with Scotland imo.

That was a bit ironic given that his spell in France did not go so well.

Joe Schmidt had a good spell at Clermont, working with Vern Cotter. He is the one I'd like France to seduce.

What is the talk in the French press, who are they favouring to take over?

Rugby2023 wrote: What is the talk in the French press, who are they favouring to take over?

The consensus is more like whomever would get the job it would not change the outcome, and also everyone realizes they won't change 6 month before a WC.

I think it has sunken deep in everyone's mind now that we have become a second division side at international level. Which is good, always useful to face reality and stop distorting the facts.

Rugby2023 wrote:

TheFrog wrote:

Rugby2023 wrote:

TheFrog wrote:Nick Mallet anyone?

Good coach, but he has been out of the game for a while now.

Cotter seems like a good fit. He achieved quite a bit with Scotland imo.

That was a bit ironic given that his spell in France did not go so well.

Joe Schmidt had a good spell at Clermont, working with Vern Cotter. He is the one I'd like France to seduce.

What is the talk in the French press, who are they favouring to take over?

Mignoni Lyon coach now

Petrus wrote:

Torquemada 1420 wrote:

TheFrog wrote:There must be a reason Macalou is so far in the pecking order. I haven't watched enough of him to answer that question.

Yes.

There is a reason the selectors think Parra and Serin are better than Dupont too.

The same reason that some posters on this forum thought that Bezy was a great player in the making probably...Nobody is perfect...

He was. He was ruined by Noves like so many other towards the end of the senile one's tenure.

TheFrog wrote:Penaud has been moved to the wing (like Iturria to flanker) at the request of the French staff. Azema cooperates with the French team

And you wonder why the clubs all too often tell the FFR to **** off and won't co-operate with them.

Petrus wrote:And so, who are the fantastic french wings that Brunel the idiot do not want to pick ?

I do wonder if part of the problem is some mental damage amongst French fans which is actually the same deficiency inherent in players and staff.

How many times does it have to be said, executed and proven by the whole world before the French get the message

Rugby is a sport for specialists. The back 3 was composed of converted players. England knew it, and Owen Farrell slaughtered them with kicks of all kinds.

It doesn't matter if you don't have fantastic anything; you pick the best specialists you have for the position. FFS, is that so hard for you all to grasp?

Locks in the backrow, flankers at 8, wingers at FB, centres on the wing, SHs at FH in a RWC FFS. I assume you all recall what happened when Italy played Bergamasaco at SH? AT least that wasn't a Fre coach making that insane blunder. The arrogance that makes you think you can switch specialist positions at a whim when you haven't even bothered to master the skills for your primary position.

Keep going. France will end up 20th in the world at this rate. But hey, you'll have the market cornered in polyvalents.

Torquemada 1420 wrote:

Petrus wrote:And so, who are the fantastic french wings that Brunel the idiot do not want to pick ?

I do wonder if part of the problem is some mental damage amongst French fans which is actually the same deficiency inherent in players and staff.

How many times does it have to be said, executed and proven by the whole world before the French get the message

Rugby is a sport for specialists. The back 3 was composed of converted players. England knew it, and Owen Farrell slaughtered them with kicks of all kinds.

It doesn't matter if you don't have fantastic anything; you pick the best specialists you have for the position. FFS, is that so hard for you all to grasp?

Locks in the backrow, flankers at 8, wingers at FB, centres on the wing, SHs at FH in a RWC FFS. I assume you all recall what happened when Italy played Bergamasaco at SH? AT least that wasn't a Fre coach making that insane blunder. The arrogance that makes you think you can switch specialist positions at a whim when you haven't even bothered to master the skills for your primary position.

Keep going. France will end up 20th in the world at this rate. But hey, you'll have the market cornered in polyvalents.

Can you check how many times Daly, the english full back has played full back for his club this season ?

Petrus wrote:Can you check how many times Daly, the english full back has played full back for his club this season ?

The clue there, in case you are struggling with it, is in the word "club".

Clubs have limited resources and sometimes, surprise, they have to make compromises. A national coach has the whole f***king country to select from so should not be handicapped by positional shortages in somewhere like France. Wales? Yeah, they have had times where they only had 3 tight heads in the county and so any injuries were a disaster.

You can keep rooting around for outlier exceptions to the rule all you like. It just makes you as irrational as the French selectors.

{EDIT} PS, Daly is not a FB. He is a liability there but, for whatever reason, Eng seems to have no decent FBs now that Brown is past it. It happens. Same reason Ireland played Henshaw at FB in week 1.

Torquemada 1420 wrote:

Petrus wrote:Can you check how many times Daly, the english full back has played full back for his club this season ?

The clue there, in case you are struggling with it, is in the word "club".

Clubs have limited resources and sometimes, surprise, they have to make compromises. A national coach has the whole f***king country to select from so should not be handicapped by positional shortages in somewhere like France. Wales? Yeah, they have had times where they only had 3 tight heads in the county and so any injuries were a disaster.

You can keep rooting around for outlier exceptions to the rule all you like. It just makes you as irrational as the French selectors.

{EDIT} PS, Daly is not a FB. He is a liability there but, for whatever reason, Eng seems to have no decent FBs now that Brown is past it. It happens. Same reason Ireland played Henshaw at FB in week 1.

So now can you check in what positions Ben Smith has played, and how many times for the All Blacks ? Always fullback ? Always wing ? Always center ? When you are good, you are good. Blanco started in the wing as Sella.

Petrus wrote: So now can you check in what positions Ben Smith has played, and how many times for the All Blacks ? Always fullback ? Always wing ? Always center ? When you are good, you are good. Blanco started in the wing as Sella.

Ben Smith is a consummate footballer. A rare genius and so can play both positions BUT you'll find few keewees who don't think he should be at FB. Hansen obviously feels that the slight loss of playing Smith on the wing is outweighed by accommodating others at FB.

But you have answered your own point! If you are that good (which is very, very rare), you can play out of position. It doesn't alter the fact that you will still have a better position. Blanco was a different era: when FBs didn't have to defend. He'd be a liability if he played the modern game even if he was at his peak.

So, now you point to me how many very rare geniuses are playing in France that you can afford to play them out of position? Because from where I am sitting, in most positions the specialists don't even have the fitness or skills to compete at intl level. And yes, players can transition with proper coaching but on the basis that French coaches can't even teach players to catch a high ball, I don't hold out hope for you migrating many.

Torquemada 1420 wrote:

Petrus wrote: So now can you check in what positions Ben Smith has played, and how many times for the All Blacks ? Always fullback ? Always wing ? Always center ? When you are good, you are good. Blanco started in the wing as Sella.

Ben Smith is a consummate footballer. A rare genius and so can play both positions BUT you'll find few keewees who don't think he should be at FB. Hansen obviously feels that the slight loss of playing Smith on the wing is outweighed by accommodating others at FB.

But you have answered your own point! If you are that good (which is very, very rare), you can play out of position. It doesn't alter the fact that you will still have a better position. Blanco was a different era: when FBs didn't have to defend. He'd be a liability if he played the modern game even if he was at his peak.

So, now you point to me how many very rare geniuses are playing in France that you can afford to play them out of position? Because from where I am sitting, in most positions the specialists don't even have the fitness or skills to compete at intl level. And yes, players can transition with proper coaching but on the basis that French coaches can't even teach players to catch a high ball, I don't hold out hope for you migrating many.

And so, who are the super specialists wings that you would pick for France right now ?

Petrus wrote:And so, who are the super specialists wings that you would pick for France right now ?

Why do you insist in throwing in superlative adjectives? They are redundant. It matters not one iota whether France has super wings or sh*t wings. France has wings and should be selecting wings for that role; and not centres and especially not the centres who, on form, are probably the best centres and so should have started there.

If you don't know which players are wingers and eligible for France, I can point you to the LNR site.