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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:22 am 
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https://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/a ... Bv4mUUkmQc

:lol: :lol: :lol:

They've been doing it for years.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:30 am 
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Wow. :shock:


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:30 am 
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Good. This crap shouldn't be happening at school level.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:31 am 
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J Man wrote:
Good. This crap shouldn't be happening at school level.


:thumbup:


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:33 am 
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Why wasn't this done years ago? They are f**king notorious for it the cretins.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:36 am 
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True Blue wrote:
Why wasn't this done years ago? They are f**king notorious for it the cretins.


Possibly a problem is that everyone is kinda doing it (to a lesser degree of course) so where/how do you draw a line?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:36 am 
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While this is funny, if they kick out all the poachers in 1A how many teams will be left?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:36 am 
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Not read the article but they were doing that when I was at school. Always hated St Kent’s boys. Worst group of lads in Auckland.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:43 am 
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Do other schools not attract players from elsewhere? Are there not strict borders that determine where you must go to school?

Or were they just the most aggressive, while the rest rely on parents initiating moves?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:44 am 
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J Man wrote:
True Blue wrote:
Why wasn't this done years ago? They are f**king notorious for it the cretins.


Possibly a problem is that everyone is kinda doing it (to a lesser degree of course) so where/how do you draw a line?


It seems to boil down to this;

Quote:
There are College Sport, who administer school sport in Auckland, bylaws that restrict schools in the 1A competition from excessive poaching within the wider Auckland region. But St Kent's have circumnavigated these rules by recruiting from outside the Auckland region and have offered full scholarships to established 1st XV players from Rotorua Boys' High School, Napier BHS, Whangarei BHS, Massey High and St John's in Hamilton.

The non-private schools in the Auckland 1A competition have been increasingly concerned about the integrity and credibility of the competition being eroded and at a meeting late last month the 1A schools agreed on a new set of guiding principles.

At the heart of the new document was a proposal to extend the current rules to apply nationwide. That would mean schools in the 1A can't field more than two players in their team who played for another First XV anywhere in New Zealand.

Those new players would also have to stand down for six games in their first year at the new school and would be ineligible to play in the knock-out rounds of the competition.

St Kentigern refused to sign the new document. King's have signed the guiding principles document but have not agreed to boycott playing St Kents.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:45 am 
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Nieghorn wrote:
Do other schools not attract players from elsewhere? Are there not strict borders that determine where you must go to school?

Or were they just the most aggressive, while the rest rely on parents initiating moves?

One of the signatories (Kings College) poached two Hawkes Bay schoolboys (that I know of) a few years back.

They're boarding schools that pick up kids from around the country.

Edit: Clearly I'm a dipshit who can't read properly, it appears that Kings is not a signatory!


Last edited by UncleFB on Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:47 am 
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Nieghorn wrote:
Do other schools not attract players from elsewhere? Are there not strict borders that determine where you must go to school?

Or were they just the most aggressive, while the rest rely on parents initiating moves?


St Kents is a private school, as in it is not state funded. So they can freely use funds to poach players from other schools with various incentives etc. State schools are obviously tax payer funded and thus their spending is held accountable to the community.

Basically they would steal established top tier players from rival 1 xv's around the country and the state schools have no answer to it because they cannot use taxpayers money to steal them back. Not illegal or anything, but patently a shitty thing to do worthy of the majestic plum that is St Kents.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:52 am 
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True Blue wrote:
Nieghorn wrote:
Do other schools not attract players from elsewhere? Are there not strict borders that determine where you must go to school?

Or were they just the most aggressive, while the rest rely on parents initiating moves?


St Kents is a private school, as in it is not state funded. So they can freely use funds to poach players from other schools with various incentives etc. State schools are obviously tax payer funded and thus their spending is held accountable to the community.

Basically they would steal established top tier players from rival 1 xv's around the country and the state schools have no answer to it because they cannot use taxpayers money to steal them back. Not illegal or anything, but patently a shitty thing to do worthy of the majestic plum that is St Kents.

That's not strictly true, they still get a per student state funding - IIRC Hekia tried to increase the funding too.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:54 am 
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Where does this leave the poor boys who changed schools?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:01 am 
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UncleFB wrote:
Nieghorn wrote:
Do other schools not attract players from elsewhere? Are there not strict borders that determine where you must go to school?

Or were they just the most aggressive, while the rest rely on parents initiating moves?

One of the signatories (Kings College) poached two Hawkes Bay schoolboys (that I know of) a few years back.

They're boarding schools that pick up kids from around the country.


A few years ago, I remembered seeing a bit of a game (not St Kents) and the announcer said a boy had been 'signed' from a state school near Taupo, maybe. Slip of the tongue, likely meant transferred, but I think he was maybe more on point.

There are two private schools in British Columbia that do it (and others, including other privates) threatened to boycott them a few years ago. Their loop hole was attending provincial tournaments and offering scholarships to boys in their final year of school. BC rules require a transfer student to sit out a whole year from sports played at the previous school... but not if they're from out of province.

It's nicknamed the 'Steve Nash Rule' as he had to sit out when transferring from public to private. Interestingly enough, the NBA star played rugby that year and apparently was pretty good!


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:07 am 
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Nieghorn wrote:
UncleFB wrote:
Nieghorn wrote:
Do other schools not attract players from elsewhere? Are there not strict borders that determine where you must go to school?

Or were they just the most aggressive, while the rest rely on parents initiating moves?

One of the signatories (Kings College) poached two Hawkes Bay schoolboys (that I know of) a few years back.

They're boarding schools that pick up kids from around the country.


A few years ago, I remembered seeing a bit of a game (not St Kents) and the announcer said a boy had been 'signed' from a state school near Taupo, maybe. Slip of the tongue, likely meant transferred, but I think he was maybe more on point.

There are two private schools in British Columbia that do it (and others, including other privates) threatened to boycott them a few years ago. Their loop hole was attending provincial tournaments and offering scholarships to boys in their final year of school. BC rules require a transfer student to sit out a whole year from sports played at the previous school... but not if they're from out of province.

It's nicknamed the 'Steve Nash Rule' as he had to sit out when transferring from public to private. Interestingly enough, the NBA star played rugby that year and apparently was pretty good!

NZR also allows a poached student to play for their original Super franchise region now.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:14 am 
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UncleFB wrote:
True Blue wrote:
Nieghorn wrote:
Do other schools not attract players from elsewhere? Are there not strict borders that determine where you must go to school?

Or were they just the most aggressive, while the rest rely on parents initiating moves?


St Kents is a private school, as in it is not state funded. So they can freely use funds to poach players from other schools with various incentives etc. State schools are obviously tax payer funded and thus their spending is held accountable to the community.

Basically they would steal established top tier players from rival 1 xv's around the country and the state schools have no answer to it because they cannot use taxpayers money to steal them back. Not illegal or anything, but patently a shitty thing to do worthy of the majestic plum that is St Kents.

That's not strictly true, they still get a per student state funding - IIRC Hekia tried to increase the funding too.


Not my understanding. St Kent is fully private and gets no govt funding. State integrated schools are what you are thinking of. They get partial funding and have to adhere to the rules that go with it. Most private schools have gone state integrated these days.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:21 am 
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Auckman wrote:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=12171645&ref=NZH_fb&fbclid=IwAR0I4B_FD5m_BmdTFOY0YF3B2gdfW2XuPIwYdN1VCJkPybMElBv4mUUkmQc

:lol: :lol: :lol:

They've been doing it for years.


:thumbup: :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:25 am 
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It's a massive issue in Australia as well. The top schools at rugby also have the best recruitment program. My old school was shite at rugby until they started following the other schools. You still see it now though and there's a distinct divide between schools that poach and schools that don't.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:29 am 
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Wilderbeast wrote:
UncleFB wrote:
True Blue wrote:
Nieghorn wrote:
Do other schools not attract players from elsewhere? Are there not strict borders that determine where you must go to school?

Or were they just the most aggressive, while the rest rely on parents initiating moves?


St Kents is a private school, as in it is not state funded. So they can freely use funds to poach players from other schools with various incentives etc. State schools are obviously tax payer funded and thus their spending is held accountable to the community.

Basically they would steal established top tier players from rival 1 xv's around the country and the state schools have no answer to it because they cannot use taxpayers money to steal them back. Not illegal or anything, but patently a shitty thing to do worthy of the majestic plum that is St Kents.

That's not strictly true, they still get a per student state funding - IIRC Hekia tried to increase the funding too.


Not my understanding. St Kent is fully private and gets no govt funding. State integrated schools are what you are thinking of. They get partial funding and have to adhere to the rules that go with it. Most private schools have gone state integrated these days.

This article appears to suggest St Kents gets state funding (by the photo).
https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national ... te-schools

Also, there's a bunch of articles from 2016/17 about 'private schools' getting state funding - they haven't been defined as 'integrated'.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/educat ... -educators
https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/politica ... ol-funding

Any posters work at the MoE and can confirm for us?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:45 am 
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So, the sore losers from this years 1A decided to cut the bull and just go out and buy the comp. They've been trying it for years but obviously this years lose really hurt.
As a resident of the Eastern BOP its amazing to see the numbers of local kids heading off on scholarships.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:01 am 
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Sounds like they do get funding uncle, but not nearly as much. I’m checking though, used to work at MoE so have connections 8)


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:27 am 
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Wilderbeast wrote:
Sounds like they do get funding uncle, but not nearly as much. I’m checking though, used to work at MoE so have connections 8)

If a school wants to be 'private' they shouldn't get any funding in my opinion - I assume all the righty tighies think the same too. :D


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:33 am 
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....about time! Have always hated that schools can cherry pick from other schools development programmes and first XV.

Like the rules around the 2 they can use.....and if new to the school having played for another first XV.

Hope this goes nationwide.......as there are a few other schools not mentioned......


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:33 am 
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still can't get used to St Kents being a powerhouse, when I played Auck schools in the 80's they were the posh little white boys...


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:49 am 
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UncleFB wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:
Sounds like they do get funding uncle, but not nearly as much. I’m checking though, used to work at MoE so have connections 8)

If a school wants to be 'private' they shouldn't get any funding in my opinion - I assume all the righty tighies think the same too. :D


Apparently there’s a pot of money that gets divided among all private schools based on student numbers. Definitely small compared to state schools, they don’t get ops grants, property funding, staffing entitlement or anything like that.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:01 am 
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School boy rugby - it’s serious business folks...


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:03 am 
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Wilderbeast wrote:
UncleFB wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:
Sounds like they do get funding uncle, but not nearly as much. I’m checking though, used to work at MoE so have connections 8)

If a school wants to be 'private' they shouldn't get any funding in my opinion - I assume all the righty tighies think the same too. :D


Apparently there’s a pot of money that gets divided among all private schools based on student numbers. Definitely small compared to state schools, they don’t get ops grants, property funding, staffing entitlement or anything like that.

So they shouldn't .... ;)


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:12 am 
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Will put a dent in the top 1B players moving to schools like Kelston for "second-year seventh-form" (or second-year year thirteen maybe these days?) too.

farmerdave wrote:
As a resident of the Eastern BOP its amazing to see the numbers of local kids heading off on scholarships.


Tauranga Sports (and the handful of other big clubs) poaching all the young talent from the other clubs in the region is worse. As was the way they loaded the rules in the competitions to keep the bigger clubs up at the expense of the smaller clubs - my favourite was "if your second team (that doesn't play against the same opposition as the top side, but usually at a ground 3 hours away, often at exactly the same time) defaults, your top side will play for no points that weekend". In a competition with a bunch of small towns that can often put together a single capable Div 1 team, but can't support the numbers to field a second team consistently (particularly when kiwi-fruit-picking season kicks in half-way through the year), it sure kept the larger clubs safe.

It is amusing to see Tauranga Sport's "oh shit, why did we recruit all the BoP squad members again?" re-action as those players disappear off to NPC training camp at the business end of the season though. :P


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:13 am 
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Thomas wrote:
It's a massive issue in Australia as well. The top schools at rugby also have the best recruitment program. My old school was shite at rugby until they started following the other schools. You still see it now though and there's a distinct divide between schools that poach and schools that don't.


As is the case in Japan, with even some junior high schools (13~15) raping primary schools in their own prefecture for the top players in the sport that a given school is strong in. This reaches ridiculous levels at high schools, regardless of private or public.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:27 am 
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In Canada all the top sides are private boarding schools and thus poach pretty much at least half of their top 15.

Pretty simple. Just look at how their side played at U 14 .... most are very mediocre.... but my U 17 these school have poached their way to top side in Canada.

Sickening really as these schools have in effect ruined school rugby competitions in Canada.

Shawnigan Lake on Vancouver Island are the worst for this though.....


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:34 am 
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It might be a bit wrong to say, but if they get to go to a better school and get better opportunities in life I don't really care if it compromises the integrity of the Auckland First XV competition. Though I'm sure some of the schools they're being poached from are perfectly good schools.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:34 am 
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True Blue wrote:
Why wasn't this done years ago? They are f**king notorious for it the cretins.


Yeah I seem to remember they were demoted to 1B for similar poaching scumbag behaviour.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:35 am 
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Quote:
"A school has asked me to investigate that's all I can say on the matter," Jim Lonergan, chief executive of College Sport Auckland, told the Herald.


Jim, tell St Kents to go get stuffed in your polite way. :nod:


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:49 am 
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Auckman wrote:
True Blue wrote:
Why wasn't this done years ago? They are f**king notorious for it the cretins.


Yeah I seem to remember they were demoted to 1B for similar poaching scumbag behaviour.


Which did nothing because they just poached their way back up again. The real solution is to rename their team Poachy McPoachFace on all official documents/tournaments.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:15 am 
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Hong Kong wrote:
School boy rugby - it’s serious business folks...


It really is. For the players, schools and students - especially in Auckland.

It’s the number one pathway to a professional contract (or an NRL contract) for the kids themselves, with potentially life-changing financial implications. Schoolboy rugby is far more important than club rugby in NZ in this regard.

For the schools, these games are televised and the schools get a cut of that broadcasting money - also a serious business. This has obvious financial implications also.

For the students, it’s usually the biggest and most exciting aspect of the school year. The crowds they get at the bigger games dwarf those of the Mitre 10 cup and even some SR games.

The whole business is increasingly professional, with all the positives and negatives that entails.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:24 am 
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naki wrote:
Hong Kong wrote:
School boy rugby - it’s serious business folks...


It really is. For the players, schools and students - especially in Auckland.

It’s the number one pathway to a professional contract (or an NRL contract) for the kids themselves, with potentially life-changing financial implications. Schoolboy rugby is far more important than club rugby in NZ in this regard.

For the schools, these games are televised and the schools get a cut of that broadcasting money - also a serious business. This has obvious financial implications also.

For the students, it’s usually the biggest and most exciting aspect of the school year. The crowds they get at the bigger games dwarf those of the Mitre 10 cup and even some SR games.

The whole business is increasingly professional, with all the positives and negatives that entails.



Teaching kids to be mercenary and have no loyalty to their their home school sides..... Pretty sad value to install in our youth in my opinion.

What happened to play as hard as you can and lead your team in victory or defeat.... It is how you battle that is important.....
That is the kind of rugby we were raised on.....

Not - "Can i find a better team to join so my team can win pretty much every game all year...." Selfish values and why are we encouraging youth to play rugby.... What is the point of it all if not to teach young people honorable values....


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:01 am 
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A boy I coached while teaching got a scholarship to St Kents, played 1st XV, won 1A, went to Sanix, won that, played for Auckland this year and got a Super contract with the Blues this year. The players deserve the chances afforded them, they work damn hard for them. The schools though, need some hardcore bans. The St Kents 1st XV budget would be the envy of most NPC teams. Rumors it is circa 500k most years.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:03 am 
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I have zero clue about schoolboy rugby these days, but is it right that St Kents are basically every villain from every 80's movie ever?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:10 am 
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Good job.

The way I read it they had plenty of time to have discussion and find a resolution like Kings did but they just ignored it and blew everyone off like they could just do what they liked.

Bunch of rich dicks anyway.


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