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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:57 pm 
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camroc1 wrote:
I was just up in outer Rathfarnham, inspecting a property, Stocking Lane/Ballycullen Road to be precise, and it's like the good old days of the late '90s building wise out there. All newly completed estates, or estates under construction, each with its own mix of 2 bed apartments, and 3 &4 bed terrace houses. Handy for the M 50 but how the fúck you get into town in any reasonable time from out there is beyond me.


Traffic congestion within the M50 and outside of the M50 is a disaster. I know the area that you're referring to and it will be a nightmare for people living in that location to travel between 6-8am and 5-7pm weekdays.

Even if you are well within the M50 traffic volumes make commuting in to the city centre difficult. Trying to cross the city takes a long time. I had to go to UCD Novagrad from Terenure last week. 5 mile journey took 55 minutes in traffic.

No chance of me breaking 30mph speed limit.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:23 pm 
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Mullet 2 wrote:
Clongriffin is already filling in at a rate of knots.

Thinking on housing under flight paths has changed anyway. There is now an acceptable level of death.


Can we put all northsiders under the flight path. It could solve a lot of problems.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:32 pm 
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paddyor wrote:
nardol wrote:
For frame of reference, do other countries have the same issues with getting infra down?
(mainly interested in European mainland not the imperialists next to us)

Apparently the Germans are terrible for it. Google Berlin airport. The yanks are pretty bad too I think, cost of tunnelling and the ancillaries like stations dwarfs what it costs in Europe.


Berlin Airport is an absolute disaster. Apparently the local government took over the project management to save money and basically do a direct build and the place is riddled with problems including the fire prevention system being completely against code and automatic doors/escalators/etc not hooked up to power. Think it was something like 450 different contractors working on site.

We can't touch that and probably (hopefully) never will.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:34 pm 
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CM11 wrote:
paddyor wrote:
nardol wrote:
For frame of reference, do other countries have the same issues with getting infra down?
(mainly interested in European mainland not the imperialists next to us)

Apparently the Germans are terrible for it. Google Berlin airport. The yanks are pretty bad too I think, cost of tunnelling and the ancillaries like stations dwarfs what it costs in Europe.


Berlin Airport is an absolute disaster. Apparently the local government took over the project management to save money and basically do a direct build and the place is riddled with problems including the fire prevention system being completely against code and automatic doors/escalators/etc not hooked up to power. Think it was something like 450 different contractors working on site.

We can't touch that and probably (hopefully) never will.


It was also about 6 years late and €5bn over budget. I watched some Prime Time style program on it a year or two back, it was absolutely mind boggling how badly they f**ked up the construction. It was scarcely believable.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:48 pm 
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danthefan wrote:
CM11 wrote:
paddyor wrote:
nardol wrote:
For frame of reference, do other countries have the same issues with getting infra down?
(mainly interested in European mainland not the imperialists next to us)

Apparently the Germans are terrible for it. Google Berlin airport. The yanks are pretty bad too I think, cost of tunnelling and the ancillaries like stations dwarfs what it costs in Europe.


Berlin Airport is an absolute disaster. Apparently the local government took over the project management to save money and basically do a direct build and the place is riddled with problems including the fire prevention system being completely against code and automatic doors/escalators/etc not hooked up to power. Think it was something like 450 different contractors working on site.

We can't touch that and probably (hopefully) never will.


It was also about 6 years late and €5bn over budget. I watched some Prime Time style program on it a year or two back, it was absolutely mind boggling how badly they f**ked up the construction. It was scarcely believable.


6 years late before they realised all the errors? It's not open yet, as far as I know?

Anyway, yep, I can't believe that what I've heard about it could actually happen in a country like Germany.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:53 pm 
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You're right it isn't open. I've just read it could be 2021 after the initial plan was to open it in 2011 :lol:

And this :lol: :lol:
Quote:
The most significant cause for the continuing delays has been the fire protection and alarm system. In the terminal building the system was not built according to the construction permit and failed the mandatory acceptance test necessary to open the airport. FBB proposed an interim solution employing up to 700 human fire spotters, which the building supervision department of the local Dahme-Spreewald district rejected.


Last edited by danthefan on Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:54 pm 
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Just checked. Was meant to open in 2011, currently scheduled for 2020 but apparently 2021 is more realistic.

Absolute shambles of a project.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:56 pm 
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Snap!


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:14 pm 
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danthefan wrote:
CM11 wrote:
paddyor wrote:
nardol wrote:
For frame of reference, do other countries have the same issues with getting infra down?
(mainly interested in European mainland not the imperialists next to us)

Apparently the Germans are terrible for it. Google Berlin airport. The yanks are pretty bad too I think, cost of tunnelling and the ancillaries like stations dwarfs what it costs in Europe.


Berlin Airport is an absolute disaster. Apparently the local government took over the project management to save money and basically do a direct build and the place is riddled with problems including the fire prevention system being completely against code and automatic doors/escalators/etc not hooked up to power. Think it was something like 450 different contractors working on site.

We can't touch that and probably (hopefully) never will.


It was also about 6 years late and €5bn over budget. I watched some Prime Time style program on it a year or two back, it was absolutely mind boggling how badly they f**ked up the construction. It was scarcely believable.

It's still not open, and they don't know when it will. Their problem is that when the LA took over as management contratcor they didn't retain anyone to sign off on subbies works. ANd no one now will, insisting everything is ripped out and reinstated back to basic structure.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:17 pm 
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camroc1 wrote:
danthefan wrote:
CM11 wrote:
paddyor wrote:
nardol wrote:
For frame of reference, do other countries have the same issues with getting infra down?
(mainly interested in European mainland not the imperialists next to us)

Apparently the Germans are terrible for it. Google Berlin airport. The yanks are pretty bad too I think, cost of tunnelling and the ancillaries like stations dwarfs what it costs in Europe.


Berlin Airport is an absolute disaster. Apparently the local government took over the project management to save money and basically do a direct build and the place is riddled with problems including the fire prevention system being completely against code and automatic doors/escalators/etc not hooked up to power. Think it was something like 450 different contractors working on site.

We can't touch that and probably (hopefully) never will.


It was also about 6 years late and €5bn over budget. I watched some Prime Time style program on it a year or two back, it was absolutely mind boggling how badly they f**ked up the construction. It was scarcely believable.

It's still not open, and they don't know when it will. Their problem is that when the LA took over as management contratcor they didn't retain anyone to sign off on subbies works. ANd no one now will, insisting everything is ripped out and reinstated back to basic structure.


Not sure how they'd expect anyone to sign off on anything there.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:18 pm 
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So folks you've probably already discussed it:

A meeting at Croke Park next week to discuss the potential negative effects to our economy as a result of Brexit.

Worst case scenario a contraction of 7% with wages set to drop between 2% and 7%.

Is this presuming we don't prepare at all for the fall out of Brexit?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:30 pm 
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iarmhiman wrote:
So folks you've probably already discussed it:

A meeting at Croke Park next week to discuss the potential negative effects to our economy as a result of Brexit.

Worst case scenario a contraction of 7% with wages set to drop between 2% and 7%.

Is this presuming we don't prepare at all for the fall out of Brexit?

Yes, this is presuming no government action, and no knock-on (ie London) benefits.

The actual worst case scenario will therefore be better than this, but unfortunately is almost completely confined to agri business and small scale indigenous manufacturing. Which are predominantly located outside of the major urban areas.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:33 pm 
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rfurlong wrote:
nardol wrote:
For frame of reference, do other countries have the same issues with getting infra down?
(mainly interested in European mainland not the imperialists next to us)


Ireland is something of a perfect storm when it comes to struggling to deliver infrastructure....

We have a highly immature electorate who prefer BANANA (build absolutely nothing anywhere near anybody)
We are over-democratic to a ridiculous extent due to the PRSTV system
The country for the most is run by culchies and school teachers without an ounce of vision
Those same culchies and school teachers are looking over their shoulders at the rise of the looney left who think everything should come for free

hence all the problems with Corrib, Eirgrid, Glen O' the Downs, Irish Water etc

Worth having a look at the the way China and Dubai get shit done ..... benign dictatorship is the way to go

Prime example of above. This lady has happily lied her way through the planning process, and court appearances and is still at it.

Quote:
Shell campaigner challenges Corrib gas pipeline permission
Process was ‘flawed’ Maura Harrington tells court
38 minutes ago
Mary Carolan


A campaigner against the Corrib gas project in Co Mayo has urged the High Court to quash a ministerial consent for a pipeline bringing gas to a refinery at Ballinaboy.

From the time of her first submission in May 2001 to Mayo County Council concerning the project, and despite not being able to argue every facet of what later took place, “I knew what was at stake”, Maura Harrington said.

She had recognised, from “day one”, the entire project was “a land, sea and air attack on the place that is Erris”.

The case by Ms Harrington, who is representing herself, and opposed by four senior counsel representing the State and Shell, opened on Tuesday before Mr Justice Michael McGrath.

Ms Harrington is challenging a December 29th 2015 consent, issued under the Gas Act, by then Minister Alex White for a pipeline transporting gas from the Corrib gas field to the Ballinaboy refinery.

Among various claims, she contends the process under which the consent issued was flawed and no environmental impact assessment sufficient to comply with the consolidated EIA directive of 2011 was carried out.

Ms Harrington said the State and Shell, which in July 2017 sold its 45 per cent stake in the project to a Canadian pension fund, Canada Pension Plan Investment Board (CPPIB), maintain the consent was for raw gas to run from “point a to point b” and that her case amounted to an impermissible collateral attack on the process under which it and other consents were gathered.

She disputed such arguments and maintained the process is amenable to judicial review.

‘Balance of rights’
At issue is the “balance of rights” between herself, who had taken part in all the statutory processes from beginning to end, and the respondents, she said.

Before the gas could run from point a to point b, the other consents had to be in place, she said.


The December 2015 consent was the final part of a long, complex and complicated project which began in November 2000 with Shell’s first planning application to Mayo County Council, she said.

In the long and complicated process of consent gathering, she was precluded from comment on aspects of the project which had not yet been presented by Shell for consideration for consent, such as the question of raw gas running through a pipeline from one point to another, she said.

Her difficulty now, when seeking to rely on European law designed to protect the environment, she was being told she cannot do that as it amounted to an impermissible collateral attack on other consents.

The Aarhus Convention – concerning public participation in decision making affecting the environment – was ratified by Ireland in 1997 although it was not transposed into Irish law until relatively recently, she said.

The question of integrated public participation arises under principles of the Aarhus Convention but the difficulty for public participation in the planning process for the Corrib gas field was that the different stages of it were presented at different times, she said.

The December 2015 consent must be assessed in a context of the integrated public participation provided for under the Aarhus Convention, she said.

It appeared irrational, contrary to common sense and a “nonsense” to maintain that consents which were relied upon for phases of this entire project, and to support this final consent, had been fully examined and deemed fully compliant with Irish and EU law, she said.

The hearing continues.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:03 pm 
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Miguel Indurain wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
I was just up in outer Rathfarnham, inspecting a property, Stocking Lane/Ballycullen Road to be precise, and it's like the good old days of the late '90s building wise out there. All newly completed estates, or estates under construction, each with its own mix of 2 bed apartments, and 3 &4 bed terrace houses. Handy for the M 50 but how the fúck you get into town in any reasonable time from out there is beyond me.


Traffic congestion within the M50 and outside of the M50 is a disaster. I know the area that you're referring to and it will be a nightmare for people living in that location to travel between 6-8am and 5-7pm weekdays.

Even if you are well within the M50 traffic volumes make commuting in to the city centre difficult. Trying to cross the city takes a long time. I had to go to UCD Novagrad from Terenure last week. 5 mile journey took 55 minutes in traffic.

No chance of me breaking 30mph speed limit.


Rathfarnham has no dart, no luas, no functioning bus lanes. Its the Bermuda triangle for commuting. cycling is the only way.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:21 pm 
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nardol wrote:
Miguel Indurain wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
I was just up in outer Rathfarnham, inspecting a property, Stocking Lane/Ballycullen Road to be precise, and it's like the good old days of the late '90s building wise out there. All newly completed estates, or estates under construction, each with its own mix of 2 bed apartments, and 3 &4 bed terrace houses. Handy for the M 50 but how the fúck you get into town in any reasonable time from out there is beyond me.


Traffic congestion within the M50 and outside of the M50 is a disaster. I know the area that you're referring to and it will be a nightmare for people living in that location to travel between 6-8am and 5-7pm weekdays.

Even if you are well within the M50 traffic volumes make commuting in to the city centre difficult. Trying to cross the city takes a long time. I had to go to UCD Novagrad from Terenure last week. 5 mile journey took 55 minutes in traffic.

No chance of me breaking 30mph speed limit.


Rathfarnham has no dart, no luas, no functioning bus lanes. Its the Bermuda triangle for commuting. cycling is the only way.


Cycling won't come as any consolation to those people who move in to the properties that Camroc was inspecting earlier.

Dublin is gridlocked 6-8am and 5-7pm, every weekday.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:52 pm 
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At least some areas along the dart and luas have some sort of respectable travel times. Rathfarnham is f*cked. On the plus side it keeps the undesirables out and I love the wicklow mountains which is great. The Far side of Rathfarnham by nutgrove is fairly shite though yet youre close to dundrum and the luas that side.... x(


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:13 pm 
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Another 200 jobs announced by Autodesk ...... 550 between this and MSD today

When is January’s unemployment number out?

Have people noticed the relative absence of looney lefties on the airwaves these days? I haven’t heard a peep out of Clare Daly, Paul Murphy, RBB and others in ages. They must be utterly miserable that the economy is doing so well 😂


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:21 pm 
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rfurlong wrote:
Another 200 jobs announced by Autodesk ...... 550 between this and MSD today

When is January’s unemployment number out?

Have people noticed the relative absence of looney lefties on the airwaves these days? I haven’t heard a peep out of Clare Daly, Paul Murphy, RBB and others in ages. They must be utterly miserable that the economy is doing so well 😂

Autodesk is interesting, as they have offices all over EMEA other than Ireland - it's like they have previously deliberately avoided us. How it grows and what functions are transferred will be keenly watched, as they are not opening up shop simply to service Irish business. We are included under England on their website at the moment. :lol: :blush:


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:00 am 
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The head of Autodesk EMEA is actually a Castlerea man who went to AIT


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:22 am 
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rfurlong wrote:
The head of Autodesk EMEA is actually a Castlerea man who went to AIT

As I said, ...interesting.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:42 pm 
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nardol wrote:
Miguel Indurain wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
I was just up in outer Rathfarnham, inspecting a property, Stocking Lane/Ballycullen Road to be precise, and it's like the good old days of the late '90s building wise out there. All newly completed estates, or estates under construction, each with its own mix of 2 bed apartments, and 3 &4 bed terrace houses. Handy for the M 50 but how the fúck you get into town in any reasonable time from out there is beyond me.


Traffic congestion within the M50 and outside of the M50 is a disaster. I know the area that you're referring to and it will be a nightmare for people living in that location to travel between 6-8am and 5-7pm weekdays.

Even if you are well within the M50 traffic volumes make commuting in to the city centre difficult. Trying to cross the city takes a long time. I had to go to UCD Novagrad from Terenure last week. 5 mile journey took 55 minutes in traffic.

No chance of me breaking 30mph speed limit.


Rathfarnham has no dart, no luas, no functioning bus lanes. Its the Bermuda triangle for commuting. cycling is the only way.


Before 7.30 am is fine, worst time is after 8 and as can be seen this week it is mainly down to the school runs, this week it has been fine no traffic. Thankfully don't work in town, buses get caught in the traffic. It can actually take 20 mins get on M50 after 8am. I think more business need to relocate out of the city centre, I am glad ours moved from Ballsbridge to the outskirts.

Actually what area of Dublin has no traffic issues between 7/9am or 5/7pm?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:58 pm 
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There's a massive difference for me leaving the office at 630 compared to leaving at 6, to the point I nearly get home at the same time either way. That's going from over the south side all the way across to the north. Cycling is the quickest way easily.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:00 pm 
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danthefan wrote:
There's a massive difference for me leaving the office at 630 compared to leaving at 6, to the point I nearly get home at the same time either way. That's going from over the south side all the way across to the north. Cycling is the quickest way easily.


Same I start work at 10 no traffic, traffic is a lot worse at 6 on m50 than 5.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:09 pm 
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All this talk of traffic congestion reminds me why I left Dublin.

25 minutes of pleasant back road driving or 28 minutes on mart day now.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:19 pm 
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Liathroidigloine wrote:
All this talk of traffic congestion reminds me why I left Dublin.

25 minutes of pleasant back road driving or 28 minutes on mart day now.


Nothing in Longford worth driving to.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:21 pm 
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Can leave my place in Terenure at 7:45 and be out on the Long Mile Road for 8. Sh*t tons of traffic going the other way though.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:30 pm 
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Luckycharmer wrote:
Actually what area of Dublin has no traffic issues between 7/9am or 5/7pm?


What major city doesn't have traffic issues at these times?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:52 pm 
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The problem as I see it is not that there is traffic (which is inevitable as you say.

But that DCC does absolutely nothing to alleviate it and the misery it causes.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:11 pm 
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Rumham wrote:
Luckycharmer wrote:
Actually what area of Dublin has no traffic issues between 7/9am or 5/7pm?


What major city doesn't have traffic issues at these times?


Correct and I have been in a couple where there seem to traffic issues everyday all day- KL springs to mind.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:29 pm 
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Mullet 2 wrote:
The problem as I see it is not that there is traffic (which is inevitable as you say.

But that DCC does absolutely nothing to alleviate it and the misery it causes.


Some of the stuff they do seems to intentionally make it worse. North quays down to one lane for cars, light sequences that are completely ridiculous, etc.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:33 pm 
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danthefan wrote:
Mullet 2 wrote:
The problem as I see it is not that there is traffic (which is inevitable as you say.

But that DCC does absolutely nothing to alleviate it and the misery it causes.


Some of the stuff they do seems to intentionally make it worse. North quays down to one lane for cars, light sequences that are completely ridiculous, etc.



They don't even deny that sure.

Their plan on Fairview is monumental in its stupidity.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:34 pm 
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If everyone got the bus or the Luas we'd be grand.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:35 pm 
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Boxcar Ira wrote:
If everyone got the bus or the Luas we'd be grand.



:lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:48 pm 
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Boxcar Ira wrote:
If everyone got the bus or the Luas we'd be grand.

Everyone is getting the Bus or Luas now, I think that's the problem.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:59 pm 
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I can leave my home each morning at 7.55 and be enjoying coffee and croissants here Image....by 8.05. :P


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:01 pm 
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amazing what bucket loads of cash can do for commute times


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:05 pm 
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normilet wrote:
Can leave my place in Terenure at 7:45 and be out on the Long Mile Road for 8. Sh*t tons of traffic going the other way though.


Yes, traffic from the Long Mile Rd coming in to the city is huge. Whereas as traffic going out to the Long Mile Rd is manageable at that hour.

It is actually quicker for me to walk from Terenure in to say, ChristChurch, than it is do the same journey by car weekdays between 7.30-9.00am and between 5.00pm and 6.30pm.

Your point about tons of traffic is lost on those who live and commute within M50.

I had to drive to Cork City for 10.00am meeting. I left home at 7.00am and the volume of traffic coming to Dublin between Portarlington and Long Mile Rd was vast. Whereas the traffic going in the opposite direction was busy, but moving.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:07 pm 
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The Sun God wrote:
I can leave my home each morning at 7.55 and be enjoying coffee and croissants here Image....by 8.05. :P


Feck ye! :D


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:08 pm 
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I'd rather Gibneys


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:10 pm 
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Miguel Indurain wrote:
normilet wrote:
Can leave my place in Terenure at 7:45 and be out on the Long Mile Road for 8. Sh*t tons of traffic going the other way though.


Yes, traffic from the Long Mile Rd coming in to the city is huge. Whereas as traffic going out to the Long Mile Rd is manageable at that hour.

It is actually quicker for me to walk from Terenure in to say, ChristChurch, than it is do the same journey by car weekdays between 7.30-9.00am and between 5.00pm and 6.30pm.

Your point about tons of traffic is lost on those who live and commute within M50.

I had to drive to Cork City for 10.00am meeting. I left home at 7.00am and the volume of traffic coming to Dublin between Portarlington and Long Mile Rd was vast. Whereas the traffic going in the opposite direction was busy, but moving.


Another issue is that the buses coming from Rathfarnham etc don't have bus lanes all the way in, Terenure up by cripps is a complete bottle neck for buses or bushy park road/rathgar as well. I remember I had to get to ballsbridge one morning and took me over an hour and half as well. Currently have a 15km commute in Dublin leave my house at 9.47 at desk at 10 8)


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