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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:20 pm 
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camroc1 wrote:
Any money freed up should be spent on some of the large 'ready to go' infrastructural projects, eg Metro North, Luas underground etc.

It would be the quickest way to lessen unemployment.


Metro North, would you ever fudge off.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:22 pm 
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JoeyFantastic wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
Any money freed up should be spent on some of the large 'ready to go' infrastructural projects, eg Metro North, Luas underground etc.

It would be the quickest way to lessen unemployment.


Metro North, would you ever fudge off.

Why not ?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:24 pm 
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The Sun God wrote:
JoeyFantastic wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
Any money freed up should be spent on some of the large 'ready to go' infrastructural projects, eg Metro North, Luas underground etc.

It would be the quickest way to lessen unemployment.


Metro North, would you ever fudge off.

Why not ?

Not until we get our new hospital and airport in Kilflynn.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:28 pm 
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The Sun God wrote:
JoeyFantastic wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
Any money freed up should be spent on some of the large 'ready to go' infrastructural projects, eg Metro North, Luas underground etc.

It would be the quickest way to lessen unemployment.


Metro North, would you ever fudge off.

Why not ?

Indeed, why not?

It gives us the perfect opportunity to put infrastructure in place to serve residentially zoned land before major development - you know, the right way around.

And has the added benefit of getting people off the dole queues, paying taxes and spending money.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:28 pm 
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The Sun God wrote:
JoeyFantastic wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
Any money freed up should be spent on some of the large 'ready to go' infrastructural projects, eg Metro North, Luas underground etc.

It would be the quickest way to lessen unemployment.


Metro North, would you ever fudge off.

Why not ?


Of all the urgent things Ireland needs, Metro North is well below the list of priorities, imo.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:31 pm 
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camroc1 wrote:
The Sun God wrote:
JoeyFantastic wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
Any money freed up should be spent on some of the large 'ready to go' infrastructural projects, eg Metro North, Luas underground etc.

It would be the quickest way to lessen unemployment.


Metro North, would you ever fudge off.

Why not ?

Indeed, why not?

It gives us the perfect opportunity to put infrastructure in place to serve residentially zoned land before major development - you know, the right way around.

And has the added benefit of getting people off the dole queues, paying taxes and spending money.


Any project that will stop me having to listen to taxi drivers talking shit after coming back for a long holiday with a band hangover gets my vote.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:33 pm 
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JoeyFantastic wrote:
The Sun God wrote:
JoeyFantastic wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
Any money freed up should be spent on some of the large 'ready to go' infrastructural projects, eg Metro North, Luas underground etc.

It would be the quickest way to lessen unemployment.


Metro North, would you ever fudge off.

Why not ?


Of all the urgent things Ireland needs, Metro North is well below the list of priorities, imo.


One of the reasons this country has been an economic backwater for so long is because our planning was done on the back of a packet of benson & hedges. Dublin is only going to get bigger and major capital infrastructural projects are a great way to kickstart an economy.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:36 pm 
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JoeyFantastic wrote:
The Sun God wrote:
JoeyFantastic wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
Any money freed up should be spent on some of the large 'ready to go' infrastructural projects, eg Metro North, Luas underground etc.

It would be the quickest way to lessen unemployment.


Metro North, would you ever fudge off.

Why not ?


Of all the urgent things Ireland needs, Metro North is well below the list of priorities, imo.


Indeed, a second runway at Shannon, a new Aran Island ferry terminal at Doolin, a road tunnel from Kilrush to Tarbert and a 40,000 seat cricket stadium at Kilkee.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:39 pm 
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3 % interest rate on the bonds.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:39 pm 
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danny_fitz wrote:
JoeyFantastic wrote:
The Sun God wrote:
JoeyFantastic wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
Any money freed up should be spent on some of the large 'ready to go' infrastructural projects, eg Metro North, Luas underground etc.

It would be the quickest way to lessen unemployment.


Metro North, would you ever fudge off.

Why not ?


Of all the urgent things Ireland needs, Metro North is well below the list of priorities, imo.


Indeed, a second runway at Shannon, a new Aran Island ferry terminal at Doolin, a road tunnel from Kilrush to Tarbert and a 40,000 seat cricket stadium at Kilkee.


Of course Danny , so we can watch twice the amount of tumbleweed blowing down it. :P


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:41 pm 
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The Sun God wrote:
JoeyFantastic wrote:
The Sun God wrote:
JoeyFantastic wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
Any money freed up should be spent on some of the large 'ready to go' infrastructural projects, eg Metro North, Luas underground etc.

It would be the quickest way to lessen unemployment.


Metro North, would you ever fudge off.

Why not ?


Of all the urgent things Ireland needs, Metro North is well below the list of priorities, imo.


One of the reasons this country has been an economic backwater for so long is because our planning was done on the back of a packet of benson & hedges. Dublin is only going to get bigger and major capital infrastructural projects are a great way to kickstart an economy.


Another reason is our massive love of vanity projects, Cork and Kerry airport, western rail corridor, a port tunnel that suits Drumcondra, Luases that don't meet up, etc. Let's work on sorting the hospitals and schools first before we jump feet first with another one.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:44 pm 
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camroc1 wrote:
3 % interest rate on the bonds.


First principle payment in 2038 and the last in 2058..... I certainly wont be around for the last and you would get long odds on me even seeing the first !!


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:46 pm 
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JoeyFantastic wrote:
The Sun God wrote:
JoeyFantastic wrote:
The Sun God wrote:
JoeyFantastic wrote:

Metro North, would you ever fudge off.

Why not ?


Of all the urgent things Ireland needs, Metro North is well below the list of priorities, imo.


One of the reasons this country has been an economic backwater for so long is because our planning was done on the back of a packet of benson & hedges. Dublin is only going to get bigger and major capital infrastructural projects are a great way to kickstart an economy.


Another reason is our massive love of vanity projects, Cork and Kerry airport, western rail corridor, a port tunnel that suits Drumcondra, Luases that don't meet up, etc. Let's work on sorting the hospitals and schools first before we jump feet first with another one.

The port tunnel actually works. There has been something like a 60% reduction in HGV traffic between the canal cordons since it opened.

The Luas lines not meeting is due to that culchie FF hack Mary O' Rourke who decided one morning whilst having a bath taht trams wouldn't be able to turn into Dawson Street, no matter what the experts said, and the plans showed.
Culchie plum of the highest order.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:53 pm 
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JoeyFantastic wrote:
]
JoeyFantastic wrote:
The Sun God wrote:
JoeyFantastic wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
Any money freed up should be spent on some of the large 'ready to go' infrastructural projects, eg Metro North, Luas underground etc.

It would be the quickest way to lessen unemployment.





Of all the urgent things Ireland needs, Metro North is well below the list of priorities, imo.


One of the reasons this country has been an economic backwater for so long is because our planning was done on the back of a packet of benson & hedges. Dublin is only going to get bigger and major capital infrastructural projects are a great way to kickstart an economy.


Another reason is our massive love of vanity projects, Cork and Kerry airport, western rail corridor, a port tunnel that suits Drumcondra, Luases that don't meet up, etc. Let's work on sorting the hospitals and schools first before we jump feet first with another one.


We only need so many hospitals and the same for schools...and they will be built but its at times like this that you have to think 50/70 years ahead and understand what a City like Dublin will need over that time. Both the HSE and the Dept of Ed have large capital budgets but they need to sort out their waste issues.
The Port tunnel was way too expensive but it serves it's purpose very well. Dublin Port is the economic hub of the country.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:57 pm 
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The Sun God wrote:
We only need so many hospitals and the same for schools...and they will be built but its at times like this that you have to think 50/70 years ahead and understand what a City like Dublin will need over that time. Both the HSE and the Dept of Ed have large capital budgets but they need to sort out their waste issues.
The Port tunnel was way too expensive but it serves it's purpose very well. Dublin Port is the economic hub of the country.


If you have the costings that shows it pays for itself then fair enough, personally I wouldn't trust anything priced and designed for a FF government, and hence why I don't think it's a simple case of pulling out the plans and saying go.

Argument re the Port Tunnel was it should have joined the motorway network elsewhere (same network with one exit for four cities south of it, ho hum), iirc.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:08 pm 
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JoeyFantastic wrote:
The Sun God wrote:
We only need so many hospitals and the same for schools...and they will be built but its at times like this that you have to think 50/70 years ahead and understand what a City like Dublin will need over that time. Both the HSE and the Dept of Ed have large capital budgets but they need to sort out their waste issues.
The Port tunnel was way too expensive but it serves it's purpose very well. Dublin Port is the economic hub of the country.


If you have the costings that shows it pays for itself then fair enough, personally I wouldn't trust anything priced and designed for a FF government, and hence why I don't think it's a simple case of pulling out the plans and saying go.

Argument re the Port Tunnel was it should have joined the motorway network elsewhere (same network with one exit for four cities south of it, ho hum), iirc.

Four Cities? Three are only three on this island.

Edit: I believe the Newlands Cross N7 works are going ahead in the next 18 months regardless.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:17 pm 
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epaddy wrote:
JoeyFantastic wrote:
The Sun God wrote:
We only need so many hospitals and the same for schools...and they will be built but its at times like this that you have to think 50/70 years ahead and understand what a City like Dublin will need over that time. Both the HSE and the Dept of Ed have large capital budgets but they need to sort out their waste issues.
The Port tunnel was way too expensive but it serves it's purpose very well. Dublin Port is the economic hub of the country.


If you have the costings that shows it pays for itself then fair enough, personally I wouldn't trust anything priced and designed for a FF government, and hence why I don't think it's a simple case of pulling out the plans and saying go.

Argument re the Port Tunnel was it should have joined the motorway network elsewhere (same network with one exit for four cities south of it, ho hum), iirc.

Four Cities? Three are only three on this island.

Edit: I believe the Newlands Cross N7 works are going ahead in the next 18 months regardless.


And both Belfast and Cork run their own succesful (very, in the case of Belfast) ports, with ready access to the country's road network.

Good news on the N7 works.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:20 pm 
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News conference cancelled.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:34 pm 
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Mary O Rourke - another teacher.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:05 pm 
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This is about as good a deal as could possibly be asked for.

The ECB have essentially accepted that we have slyly come up with a mechanism which is just about legal to kick the can down the road.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:30 pm 
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waguser wrote:
This is about as good a deal as could possibly be asked for.

The ECB have essentially accepted that we have slyly come up with a mechanism which is just about legal to kick the can down the road.

Agreed.

At the moment they are IOUs to ourselves to be paid 30 -40 yrs hence.

Now for a deal on the bank recapitalisation costs.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:37 pm 
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Hurrah?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:40 pm 
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Can we put our minds together and look to sort my 200 yoyo overdraft now.
Thanks.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:58 pm 
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anonymous_joe wrote:
Hurrah?


Absolutely Hurrah

Tony Foley of DCU who has a wonderfully dry sense of humour was on the radio earlier.

Before the ECB came out with acquiescence through unanimous non comment he was asked was this a good deal
he responded that he would be delighted if we could this deal and we should grab it with both hands, but he would be shocked if the ECB let it through as it is in effect montary financing.

essentially we are being let away with lending money to ourselves to pay other debts with a vague promise of paying the principle in the future. Remember the ECB is accepting this mechanism as a way of us getting finance from the ECB for funding our deficit.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:02 pm 
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camroc1 wrote:
Any money freed up should be spent on some of the large 'ready to go' infrastructural projects, eg Metro North, Luas underground etc.

It would be the quickest way to lessen unemployment.

Irish public servants seem to think that money is for them.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:18 pm 
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waguser wrote:
anonymous_joe wrote:
Hurrah?


Absolutely Hurrah

Tony Foley of DCU who has a wonderfully dry sense of humour was on the radio earlier.

Before the ECB came out with acquiescence through unanimous non comment he was asked was this a good deal
he responded that he would be delighted if we could this deal and we should grab it with both hands, but he would be shocked if the ECB let it through as it is in effect montary financing.

essentially we are being let away with lending money to ourselves to pay other debts with a vague promise of paying the principle in the future. Remember the ECB is accepting this mechanism as a way of us getting finance from the ECB for funding our deficit.

That explains it much better than I did.

A good deal indeed - although I suspect there will be ECB pressure to sell them to the market.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:18 pm 
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There is still no extra money

it just means less money that has to be found by increasing taxes or cutting services to merely get us to 3% deficit

Unemployment is our single biggest problem


Last edited by waguser on Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:20 pm 
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waguser wrote:
There is still no extra money

it just means less money that has to be found by increasing taxes or cutting services to merely get us ton 3% debt

Watch the PS harden on Croke Park 2.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:26 pm 
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camroc1 wrote:
waguser wrote:
anonymous_joe wrote:
Hurrah?


Absolutely Hurrah

Tony Foley of DCU who has a wonderfully dry sense of humour was on the radio earlier.

Before the ECB came out with acquiescence through unanimous non comment he was asked was this a good deal
he responded that he would be delighted if we could this deal and we should grab it with both hands, but he would be shocked if the ECB let it through as it is in effect montary financing.

essentially we are being let away with lending money to ourselves to pay other debts with a vague promise of paying the principle in the future. Remember the ECB is accepting this mechanism as a way of us getting finance from the ECB for funding our deficit.

That explains it much better than I did.

A good deal indeed - although I suspect there will be ECB pressure to sell them to the market.


That's not really what In see happening .
However you are correct that it is possible in the sense that because the ECB review the stuff they allow the Central bank to use as collateral every year, they can in effect turn around and demand repayment of the whole lot if Ireland are bad boys in the future.

So Everybody is happy we have found this piece of cute hoorism par exellence , and it is unlikely that the ECB will find itself able to reverse this acquiesence.
The only catch would be if some smart arse Germaner took a case that this was illegal and won.

In fairness everybody is happy that us as the good boys in class are able to deal with the iou's in a more reasonable fashion.

Even fianna fail are acknowledging it's a decent deal.
The poor shinners are exposing their stupidity.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:43 pm 
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New lands cross. About. Fricking. Time.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:54 pm 
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National Spatial Strategy Goooonnnneeee.

Another case of one for everyone in the audience paid for by the GDA.

Quote:
irishtimes.com - Last Updated: Tuesday, February 12, 2013, 16:13
Government scraps spatial strategy

Minister for Environment Phil Hogan said the National Spatial Strategy had not worked because no investment was put into the plan. Photograph: The Irish Times
Related
Property lobby wants radical cut in councils with planning powers | 02/07/2012
Call for planning system overhaul | 26/04/2012
Decentralisation plan was crazy right from the start | 21/11/2011
Growth cannot happen everywhere, says architect calling for emphasis on Dublin | 05/10/2010
Local authorities told to adhere to spatial strategy | 04/10/2010
TIM O'BRIEN

The Government is to scrap the National Spatial Strategy, the 20-year economic development plan which designated 18 “gateways” and “hubs” through which employment and investment were to be directed.

The announcement was made this afternoon by Minister for Environment Phil Hogan who said the strategy had failed.

Addressing the Oireachtas committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation Mr Hogan said the gateway and hub cities and towns never received the resources to ensure their development and “nothing has happened” in the ten years since they were designated.

Mr Hogan said there was no point in having a designation without the resources. He said the strategy, which was launched by his predecessor, former minister Martin Cullen more than a decade ago, would be replaced with new proposals which would would be circulated as part of a public consultation.

Mr Hogan said a replacement of for the strategy was “about a year away”.

Referring to the concurrent reform of local government Mr Hogan said major towns with town councils “will still be the focal point” for rural development after town councils are abolished.

He said his aim was to reorganise community development interests and local authority interests combining them with State employment agencies and create a network of “one stop shops” known as Local Employment Offices or LEOs.

Mr Hogan said there was currently “a plethora of organisations where nobody knows which one to go to”. He told TDs and senators some agencies were not fit for purpose in accounting for their stewardship of public monies. He particularly instanced the local development agency Mayo North East Leader where he said “fraud squad have been sent in”.

He said the new “one stop” local employment offices would involve contributions from all agencies involved in employment services, but without elimination or duplication.

Mr Hogan said the offices would utilise community enterprise staff who were currently employed by the Department of Enterprise. “It will be Enterprise Ireland funding, Enterprise Ireland staff seconded to local Government”.

“I am facilitating the space. Pay and pension issues won’t arise”, he said.

Under the strategy investment in infrastructure and foreign direct investment were to be directed towards nine gateways and a nine hubs in a bid to counter the dominance of the Dublin region and to promote balanced regional development.

The gateways were Cork; the linked areas of Limerick and Shannon; Galway; Sligo; and the linked areas of Letterkenny and Derry; Dundalk; Dublin; the linked areas of Tullamore and Athlone and Mullingar, known as the millands gateway; and Waterford.

The smaller hubs were the linked areas of Tralee and Killarney; Mallow; Ennis; Tuam; Castlebar and Ballina; Monaghan; Cavan; Kilkenny; Wexford.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:06 pm 
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Sure isn't that good news for the Camroc strategy of putting everything in Dublin and turning the rest of the country into a theme park?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:26 pm 
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Uncle Fester wrote:
Sure isn't that good news for the Camroc strategy of putting everything in Dublin and turning the rest of the country into a theme park?


A university hospital for mallow, bandon and skibereen rahoo rahoo


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:40 pm 
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Uncle Fester wrote:
Sure isn't that good news for the Camroc strategy of putting everything in Dublin and turning the rest of the country into a theme park?


whatever about encouraging growth in limerick galway cork and maybe Athlone ,

nonsense paper plans to pretend to develop bogger holes purely to win votes and get developer bribes were absurd.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:22 pm 
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Uncle Fester wrote:
Sure isn't that good news for the Camroc strategy of putting everything in Dublin and turning the rest of the country into a theme park?

Dead f**king righy, mate.

Without a successful Dublin this place will drift into being a 'Quiet Man' theme park.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:19 pm 
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camroc1 wrote:
Uncle Fester wrote:
Sure isn't that good news for the Camroc strategy of putting everything in Dublin and turning the rest of the country into a theme park?

Dead f**king righy, mate.

Without a successful Dublin this place will drift into being a 'Quiet Man' theme park.

Good stuff. Thanks for paying our property tax for us btw. :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:23 pm 
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That'll change, Fester, when the blatant unfairness of the proposed system becomes evident to Dubliners.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:30 pm 
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camroc1 wrote:
That'll change, Fester, when the blatant unfairness of the proposed system becomes evident to Dubliners.

It's a wealth tax, suck it up. You dubs are starting to sound like whingey farmers.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:34 pm 
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Gavin Duffy wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
That'll change, Fester, when the blatant unfairness of the proposed system becomes evident to Dubliners.

It's a wealth tax, suck it up. You dubs are starting to sound like whingey farmers.

That's OK.

We'll keep the money for use by the Dublin LAs then.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:38 am 
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Nah. You have to pay the culchies for their water so they'll get the cash out of you anyway.


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