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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:36 am 
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Gavin Duffy wrote:
I see Jack O'Connor now wants free houses for debt defaulters.

He actually said it earlier in the week to a British paper but he obviously wanted to make sure we got the message loud & clear and repeated it. I wonder does he have any borrowings he needs to declare? If not, he needs professional treatment for that delusional thing he has going on.


Last edited by Uncle Fester on Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:38 am 
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Minnosu wrote:
Uncle Fester wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
Uncle Fester wrote:
MSD in Rathdrum gone. 280 jobs gone.
Not entirely unexpected news but these are very well paying jobs and not easily replaced.

Not unexpected at all. Did a lot of work for SP at one time, both there and Brinny, and Rathdrum was aleays considered an oddball.

Regarding the property tax, expect changes to include some portion for sq footage.

Square footage is wrong too. We already have the smallest homes in western Europe (despite the lowest population density) and I don't see what we have to gain by penalising folk for having reasonable living space.


Property tax punishes home ownership. No fair way to do it.

I'd put it to you that a house is a long-term depreciating asset that requires constant maintainence. It's the land that has value. Tax that instead. It might give pause to the folks living in bungalows in city centres, while their children have to live in apartments in Stepaside.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:12 am 
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Jack O'Connor is an odious twat. He's now comparing house repossession to 19th century farm evictions, down to the use of the 'colonial lackeys' phrase. He'll break into a chorus of 'Can you hear the people sing' before long.



Quote:
O'Connor compares prospect of increased repossessions to famine times
Updated: 09:31, Friday, 08 March 2013


inShare
ArticleComments (2)
Jack O'Connor called on the Government to come up with better solutions
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SIPTU General President Jack O'Connor called on the Government "to come up with better solutions to the mortgage crisis than reverting to the tactics of colonial lackeys".
He added: "The parallels between the graphic images of post-famine Ireland and the prospect (of) our own authorities evicting people from their family homes to pay off debts to those at the top of the European banking system are striking."
Yesterday, the Secretary General of the Department of Finance, John Moran, told the Public Accounts Committee there is an "unnaturally low level of repossessions" of houses in Ireland.
He said the forbearance measures by the banks that resulted in this low rate of repossessions were necessary until a range of measures - notably the personal insolvency legislation - were in place to address the arrears situation.
Pressed by TD Shane Ross on whether he expected an upsurge in repossessions, Mr Moran noted the repossession rate in Ireland was 0.25% compared with 3% in the UK.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:58 pm 
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A rather surprising snippet from Colm McCarthy in the Sindo today.
Quote:
It is insufficiently understood that Ireland is not having a sub-prime mortgage crisis comparable to what went on in the USA. Unemployment amongst those in mortgage arrears is half the national average. The economically weakest section of the community did not, as in the USA, get access to mortgage finance in this country.

Link


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:20 am 
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Uncle Fester wrote:
A rather surprising snippet from Colm McCarthy in the Sindo today.
Quote:
It is insufficiently understood that Ireland is not having a sub-prime mortgage crisis comparable to what went on in the USA. Unemployment amongst those in mortgage arrears is half the national average. The economically weakest section of the community did not, as in the USA, get access to mortgage finance in this country.

Link


Surprising in what context?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:40 am 
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anonymous_joe wrote:
Uncle Fester wrote:
A rather surprising snippet from Colm McCarthy in the Sindo today.
Quote:
It is insufficiently understood that Ireland is not having a sub-prime mortgage crisis comparable to what went on in the USA. Unemployment amongst those in mortgage arrears is half the national average. The economically weakest section of the community did not, as in the USA, get access to mortgage finance in this country.

Link


Surprising in what context?

Indeed.

Beyond Smart, we really didn't do subprime.

The banks may have lent enormous amounts, but, on the whole, they lent them to those in employment.


I see SF are jumping on the 'evictions' bandwagon now.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:41 am 
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Any more news on our capital projects? Could the interconnector DART underground be back on soon or even the DART link to the airport via Clongriffin be back on the agenda?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:45 am 
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iarmhiman wrote:
Any more news on our capital projects? Could the interconnector DART underground be back on soon or even the DART link to the airport via Clongriffin be back on the agenda?

No.

I don't think the govt. have the balls to spend on large Dublin based projects, preferring to slice and dice to give one for everyone in the audience.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:47 am 
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camroc1 wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:
Any more news on our capital projects? Could the interconnector DART underground be back on soon or even the DART link to the airport via Clongriffin be back on the agenda?

No.

I don't think the govt. have the balls to spend on large Dublin based projects, preferring to slice and dice to give one for everyone in the audience.


That would be a great way to get a lot of people back to work. They musn't have the money still. I think they will only consider this once they are back on the long term bond markets.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:48 am 
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anonymous_joe wrote:
Uncle Fester wrote:
A rather surprising snippet from Colm McCarthy in the Sindo today.
Quote:
It is insufficiently understood that Ireland is not having a sub-prime mortgage crisis comparable to what went on in the USA. Unemployment amongst those in mortgage arrears is half the national average. The economically weakest section of the community did not, as in the USA, get access to mortgage finance in this country.

Link


Surprising in what context?

Because it means that the level of "strategic defaulting" could be off the scale and these are the people who would be benefitting from debt writedowns.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:48 am 
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iarmhiman wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:
Any more news on our capital projects? Could the interconnector DART underground be back on soon or even the DART link to the airport via Clongriffin be back on the agenda?

No.

I don't think the govt. have the balls to spend on large Dublin based projects, preferring to slice and dice to give one for everyone in the audience.


That would be a great way to get a lot of people back to work. They musn't have the money still. I think they will only consider this once they are back on the long term bond markets.

The interconnector was PPP, which should make it relatively easy to resurrect once the financials are right.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:51 am 
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camroc1 wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:
Any more news on our capital projects? Could the interconnector DART underground be back on soon or even the DART link to the airport via Clongriffin be back on the agenda?

No.

I don't think the govt. have the balls to spend on large Dublin based projects, preferring to slice and dice to give one for everyone in the audience.


That would be a great way to get a lot of people back to work. They musn't have the money still. I think they will only consider this once they are back on the long term bond markets.

The interconnector was PPP, which should make it relatively easy to resurrect once the financials are right.


Metro North is dead I reckon. Costs 2 Billion. Way too expensive.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:54 am 
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iarmhiman wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:
Any more news on our capital projects? Could the interconnector DART underground be back on soon or even the DART link to the airport via Clongriffin be back on the agenda?

No.

I don't think the govt. have the balls to spend on large Dublin based projects, preferring to slice and dice to give one for everyone in the audience.


That would be a great way to get a lot of people back to work. They musn't have the money still. I think they will only consider this once they are back on the long term bond markets.

The interconnector was PPP, which should make it relatively easy to resurrect once the financials are right.


Metro North is dead I reckon. Costs 2 Billion. Way too expensive.

Two billion is peanuts compared to the millions we've spunked on the banks, and at least ends up with lots of employment and a decent bit of infrastructure.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:04 am 
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Uncle Fester wrote:
anonymous_joe wrote:
Uncle Fester wrote:
A rather surprising snippet from Colm McCarthy in the Sindo today.
Quote:
It is insufficiently understood that Ireland is not having a sub-prime mortgage crisis comparable to what went on in the USA. Unemployment amongst those in mortgage arrears is half the national average. The economically weakest section of the community did not, as in the USA, get access to mortgage finance in this country.

Link


Surprising in what context?

Because it means that the level of "strategic defaulting" could be off the scale and these are the people who would be benefitting from debt writedowns.


I understood about half of that. :blush: :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:28 am 
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Uncle Fester wrote:
anonymous_joe wrote:
Uncle Fester wrote:
A rather surprising snippet from Colm McCarthy in the Sindo today.
Quote:
It is insufficiently understood that Ireland is not having a sub-prime mortgage crisis comparable to what went on in the USA. Unemployment amongst those in mortgage arrears is half the national average. The economically weakest section of the community did not, as in the USA, get access to mortgage finance in this country.

Link


Surprising in what context?

Because it means that the level of "strategic defaulting" could be off the scale and these are the people who would be benefitting from debt writedowns.

I think that the banks will get court orders to go through outgoings in order to burn strategic defaulters, as they should.

They should have no sympathy from anyone.

Most, allegedly, are in the buy to let market, and that should at least free up family houses to the market.

Anyone who strategically defaults on their family home deserves all the pain they will get.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:46 pm 
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Special legislation to deal with strategic defaulters :

Quote:
New Government plan to confront mortgage crisis
Last-resort measures to facilitate evictions in cases of ‘strategic default’


Arthur Beesley


Mon, Mar 11, 2013, 08:27
First published:
Mon, Mar 11, 2013, 06:00


Mortgage lenders will run the risk of financial sanctions if they fail to meet Government targets in a new plan to overcome the personal debt crisis.
The plan, to be unveiled on Wednesday, includes last-resort measures to facilitate the repossession of property from home owners deemed to be in “strategic default” if they do not co-operate with their lenders.
This is designed to prompt borrowers who can repay their loans but who won’t do so to engage with their banks. The aim is to separate them on a case-by-case basis from borrowers who genuinely cannot repay, and to settle such cases quickly.

Property tax will penalise Dublin householders

Homeowners to calculate value on property tax site

Revenue to track down property tax evaders
The Irish Times takes no responsibility for the content or availability of other websites.
Tone of remarks
The matter is politically sensitive. The tone of remarks on repossessions by Department of Finance secretary general John Moran last week went down badly with some Cabinet members.
However, a senior Government source said there was a clear understanding among all stakeholders that the arrears question should be urgently addressed. The objective was to keep people in the family home “where it’s at all possible”, the source said.
There is support for the initiative within the EU-IMF troika. The view within the troika is that the task of settling genuine arrears cases would be made much more difficult if strategic defaulters are not tackled.
Increased pressure on the banks to confront tens of thousands of mortgage arrears comes in a week in which Revenue starts writing to 1.66 million home owners with estimates of their property tax liability. It will take four weeks to complete the delivery of letters to all properties.
A new Revenue web page on the tax went online yesterday, setting out valuation estimates on homes throughout the State. Valuations scrutinised by The Irish Times were perceived to be at the conservative end of the scale.
The new plan to confront the mortgage crisis aims to remove an incentive for the banks to postpone the definitive settlement of arrears cases, a practice known as “extend and pretend”.
Current rules enable banks to avoid taking a financial loss on mortgages which are in default but which have yet to be formally restructured.
Under the new plan, the Financial Regulator will compel lenders to recognise such losses up front if they do not meet targets to restructure a set number of loans in arrears every three months. Banks would have to set aside capital against such losses, weakening their financial position.
The objective is to encourage banks to put arrears customers in a sustainable position for the long-term, moving away from interim measures like forbearance on repayments or interest-only arrangements. The target number of cases to be settled every three months by each institution will increase in steep increments.
The prospect of further penalising unco-operative banks by preventing them from reducing future corporate tax payments by offsetting liabilities against past losses was discussed within the Government. Such measures, however, are likely to be held in reserve this week.

New regime
The new regime will apply to the two State-supported pillar banks, Allied Irish Banks and Bank of Ireland, and all other mortgage lenders active in the Irish market.
It is likely to include provisions to give the banks increased scope to make contact with customers in arrears. High-level bankers have been complaining in private that current rules allow only four “contacts” per month.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:52 pm 
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Once again, public opinion and media hysteria in this country totally deflect the real problem when it comes to the so called mortgage "crisis" in this country.

Not a single mention of trackers which in reality is the real problem, those on fixed and variable are subsidising the trackers to a ridiculous degree. Perhaps rather than promote repossessions, how about allowing banks increase their trackers by 1-2% on condition the banks reduce their mortgages by a certain degree thereby writing off a certain amount of debt. This sort of arrangement wouldn't have the same moral hazard as other forms of mortgage debt write-off. It would also allow the banks to ease the pressure on variable and fixed rate customers.

Have to love the biased comments on here like festers tax the land value not the property value, of course he is an apartment owner and that has nothing to do with his stance. And camroc going on about capital projects etc. It shows the myopic narrow minded and ignorant views most have on here and they castigate o'connor for the exact same thing. What hypocrisy.

As regards the general fiscal problem, why isn't there more emphasis on welfare reform?

Another point, if the bank guarantee was so disastrous as many claim, how come it has changed little or nothing now that it is coming to an end.......my whole position on this has been totally vindicated beyond dispute now.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:51 pm 
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camroc1 wrote:
Special legislation to deal with strategic defaulters :

Quote:
New Government plan to confront mortgage crisis
Last-resort measures to facilitate evictions in cases of ‘strategic default’


Arthur Beesley


Mon, Mar 11, 2013, 08:27
First published:
Mon, Mar 11, 2013, 06:00


Mortgage lenders will run the risk of financial sanctions if they fail to meet Government targets in a new plan to overcome the personal debt crisis.
The plan, to be unveiled on Wednesday, includes last-resort measures to facilitate the repossession of property from home owners deemed to be in “strategic default” if they do not co-operate with their lenders.
This is designed to prompt borrowers who can repay their loans but who won’t do so to engage with their banks. The aim is to separate them on a case-by-case basis from borrowers who genuinely cannot repay, and to settle such cases quickly.

Property tax will penalise Dublin householders

Homeowners to calculate value on property tax site

Revenue to track down property tax evaders
The Irish Times takes no responsibility for the content or availability of other websites.
Tone of remarks
The matter is politically sensitive. The tone of remarks on repossessions by Department of Finance secretary general John Moran last week went down badly with some Cabinet members.
However, a senior Government source said there was a clear understanding among all stakeholders that the arrears question should be urgently addressed. The objective was to keep people in the family home “where it’s at all possible”, the source said.
There is support for the initiative within the EU-IMF troika. The view within the troika is that the task of settling genuine arrears cases would be made much more difficult if strategic defaulters are not tackled.
Increased pressure on the banks to confront tens of thousands of mortgage arrears comes in a week in which Revenue starts writing to 1.66 million home owners with estimates of their property tax liability. It will take four weeks to complete the delivery of letters to all properties.
A new Revenue web page on the tax went online yesterday, setting out valuation estimates on homes throughout the State. Valuations scrutinised by The Irish Times were perceived to be at the conservative end of the scale.
The new plan to confront the mortgage crisis aims to remove an incentive for the banks to postpone the definitive settlement of arrears cases, a practice known as “extend and pretend”.
Current rules enable banks to avoid taking a financial loss on mortgages which are in default but which have yet to be formally restructured.
Under the new plan, the Financial Regulator will compel lenders to recognise such losses up front if they do not meet targets to restructure a set number of loans in arrears every three months. Banks would have to set aside capital against such losses, weakening their financial position.
The objective is to encourage banks to put arrears customers in a sustainable position for the long-term, moving away from interim measures like forbearance on repayments or interest-only arrangements. The target number of cases to be settled every three months by each institution will increase in steep increments.
The prospect of further penalising unco-operative banks by preventing them from reducing future corporate tax payments by offsetting liabilities against past losses was discussed within the Government. Such measures, however, are likely to be held in reserve this week.

New regime
The new regime will apply to the two State-supported pillar banks, Allied Irish Banks and Bank of Ireland, and all other mortgage lenders active in the Irish market.
It is likely to include provisions to give the banks increased scope to make contact with customers in arrears. High-level bankers have been complaining in private that current rules allow only four “contacts” per month.

Dunno if it'll work Cammy. Part of the reason we came to this impasse is because the banks were not too bothered about it until the 2009 Dunne judgement scuppered repossesions anyway. Taxpayer-supported banks don't seem to fear any consequences of running their businesses into the ground so I fail to see why they'll start being sensible now.

What puzzles me is why the foreign owned banks haven't pulled the plug.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:25 pm 
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Another absurd post by fester, brilliant. :lol:

Imagining asking cam my about banking, the man who said the reason for the credit crunch was too much bank regulation.

It's the blind asking the blind what something looks like.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:43 pm 
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Saint155 wrote:
Another absurd post by fester, brilliant. :lol:

Imagining asking cam my about banking, the man who said the reason for the credit crunch was too much bank regulation.

It's the blind asking the blind what something looks like.

Qué ? I think you've mixed me up with someone else mate.

Regarding the bank guarsntee : the govt. must have got the nod for this on Friday. It will be interesting to see does it run.

Quote:
Taoiseach increases demands on bank debt
Kenny, Cameron to review progress on British-Irish relations


Mark Hennessy


Mon, Mar 11, 2013, 14:57
First published:
Mon, Mar 11, 2013, 09:18


Taoiseach Enda Kenny has toughened Ireland's demand for concessions from the European Union on the debts sustained by the Irish taxpayer from the banking crisis.
"The principle that there can be no shared European taxpayer responsibility for banks without shared control and supervision is reasonable," he said in a speech in the Mansion House in the City of London this afternoon.
"But the corollary must also be true; where the policy for dealing with bank failures was determined at European - and not national - level, so too must the burden of the legacy costs of those policies.”

Cameron faces gargantuan task after Eastleigh defeat
The Irish Times takes no responsibility for the content or availability of other websites.
Mr Kenny, who is meeting British prime minister David Cameron this afternoon, argued that Irish banks “need to accelerate the work-out of mortgage arrears and other non-performing loans”, saying that he hoped for progress on th e issue this week.
Such changes, he said, would “give confidence to investors and visibility and hope to the tens of thousands of families and small businesses in debt difficulties”.
Mr Kenny said Irish banks need to cut their costs, he went on, while 'after a decade of a property boom and bust, there is a need for the banks to re-skill in order to improve their ability to lend prudently into the real economy'.
Earlier, Mr Kenny has strongly supported the United Kingdom's continued membership of the European Union, just hours before meeting Mr Cameron.
"We see the British relationship with the EU as being a two way relationship - Britain benefits from its membership of the EU, and the EU is better off with Britain as a leading member making a valued contribution," he said before the talks at Downing Street.
Mr Kenny said the UK's membership benefited Ireland, too. "Having the ability to work together within the European Union on the many issues on which we are of like mind - the single market, trade and so on - amplifies the impact of our excellent relationship generally," he said.
"Both our economies are closely tied in so many ways and we want this close relationship to continue and be built on for many generations to come," he said, in a speech in the Mansion House in the City of London this morning.
"Britain remains Ireland's largest export destination and Ireland is the 5th largest recipient of British exports. While we have individual areas of expertise, when it comes to exports we have shared strengths in sectors such as financial and business services," he added.
Referring to the Irish banking crisis, he said: "Following years of reckless lending, Irish banks were bailed out at a cost of €64 billion to Irish taxpayers - equivalent to over 40 per cent of GDP or €35,000 for every household in the country - and over ten times the cost of bank rescues in any other euro zone country.
"If it hadn't been for this uniquely onerous burden, Irish public debt levels would now be below the euro zone average," said Mr Kenny, who will address the British-Irish Chamber of Commerce later before going to No 10.
The meeting at Downing Street will be the first annual summit to review progress on the statement the two leaders signed last year on developing British-Irish relations in a range of key areas over the next decade.
They will also discuss the current situation in Northern Ireland, some 15 years on from the signing of the Belfast Agreement.
Mr Kenny will also brief Mr Cameron on the progress and remaining priorities of Ireland’s EU presidency, which ends in June.
Mr Kenny told the Dail last month he would raise Marian Price ’s situation in Maghaberry prison with Mr Cameron.
The one day visit to London is the start of a period of intensive promotion of Ireland abroad by the Taoiseach, both before and after St Patrick’s Day.
Following the Downing Street meeting, the Taoiseach will attend the Champ St Patrick’s Day reception sponsored by Tourism Ireland at the Houses of Parliament, Westminster.
Champ is a not-for-profit organisation which promotes peace in Northern Ireland, and throughout Ireland and the UK.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:00 pm 
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camroc1 wrote:
Saint155 wrote:
Another absurd post by fester, brilliant. :lol:

Imagining asking cam my about banking, the man who said the reason for the credit crunch was too much bank regulation.

It's the blind asking the blind what something looks like.

Qué ? I think you've mixed me up with someone else mate.

Regarding the bank guarsntee : the govt. must have got the nod for this on Friday. It will be interesting to see does it run.


Nope you said that before the bored had it's meltdown, sorry, you can't run away from what you said.

And the guarantee is coming to an end at the end of this month, the decision was made weeks ago but announced just before the end of Feb. Basically deposits over 100g are no longer covered, the total amount is over 70 billion no longer being guaranteed. Large depositors make up in or around 50% of the banks deposit books.

Hopefully there won't be a bank run in coming months otherwise this country is dead, dead, dead.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:03 pm 
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Saint155 wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
Saint155 wrote:
Another absurd post by fester, brilliant. :lol:

Imagining asking cam my about banking, the man who said the reason for the credit crunch was too much bank regulation.

It's the blind asking the blind what something looks like.

Qué ? I think you've mixed me up with someone else mate.

Regarding the bank guarsntee : the govt. must have got the nod for this on Friday. It will be interesting to see does it run.


Nope you said that before the bored had it's meltdown, sorry, you can't run away from what you said.

And the guarantee is coming to an end at the end of this month, the decision was made weeks ago but announced just before the end of Feb. Basically deposits over 100g are no longer covered, the total amount is over 70 billion no longer being guaranteed. Large depositors make up in or around 50% of the banks deposit books.

Hopefully there won't be a bank run in coming months otherwise this country is dead, dead, dead.

I said many things on the various incarnations of this thread, even being one of your supporters on the bank guarantee.

My reason for posting the article though is that the government obviously feel that they have a chance of getting a lot of the 64 billion back from the EU, and that the IMF support this.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:14 pm 
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camroc1 wrote:
I said many things on the various incarnations of this thread, even being one of your supporters on the bank guarantee.

My reason for posting the article though is that the government obviously feel that they have a chance of getting a lot of the 64 billion back from the EU, and that the IMF support this.

doubt they will get a write down of debt but being able to put more than just the Anglo debt on the long finger is the hope. Though wouldn't get my hopes up. Perhaps they might be able to just have it off the books some way.

Plus the 64 billion figure does not take into account money paid by the banks for the guarantee, shareholding in the banks and sale of preference shares. For example, BOI received about 4 billion from the bailout of which they have repaid to the exchequer about 2.5 billion and the state owns about 2 billion in preference shares which they will sell when it's best to do so. Unsure what the other banks have paid but it probably is equivalent which would suggest 3-4 billion territory.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:26 pm 
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Saint155 wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
I said many things on the various incarnations of this thread, even being one of your supporters on the bank guarantee.

My reason for posting the article though is that the government obviously feel that they have a chance of getting a lot of the 64 billion back from the EU, and that the IMF support this.

doubt they will get a write down of debt but being able to put more than just the Anglo debt on the long finger is the hope. Though wouldn't get my hopes up. Perhaps they might be able to just have it off the books some way.

Plus the 64 billion figure does not take into account money paid by the banks for the guarantee, shareholding in the banks and sale of preference shares. For example, BOI received about 4 billion from the bailout of which they have repaid to the exchequer about 2.5 billion and the state owns about 2 billion in preference shares which they will sell when it's best to do so. Unsure what the other banks have paid but it probably is equivalent which would suggest 3-4 billion territory.

They'll get the debt put on the never never as a minimum.

I'm surprised at the Kenny speech as it is really upping the ante and is trying to put a moral imperative on the EU to share the debt burden.

I don't think it is speech Kenny would make unless he thought, and had been given reason to think, that this was on the table.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:41 pm 
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camroc1 wrote:
Saint155 wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
I said many things on the various incarnations of this thread, even being one of your supporters on the bank guarantee.
My reason for posting the article though is that the government obviously feel that they have a chance of getting a lot of the 64 billion back from the EU, and that the IMF support this.

doubt they will get a write down of debt but being able to put more than just the Anglo debt on the long finger is the hope. Though wouldn't get my hopes up. Perhaps they might be able to just have it off the books some way.
Plus the 64 billion figure does not take into account money paid by the banks for the guarantee, shareholding in the banks and sale of preference shares. For example, BOI received about 4 billion from the bailout of which they have repaid to the exchequer about 2.5 billion and the state owns about 2 billion in preference shares which they will sell when it's best to do so. Unsure what the other banks have paid but it probably is equivalent which would suggest 3-4 billion territory.

They'll get the debt put on the never never as a minimum.
I'm surprised at the Kenny speech as it is really upping the ante and is trying to put a moral imperative on the EU to share the debt burden.

I don't think it is speech Kenny would make unless he thought, and had been given reason to think, that this was on the table.

you could be right regarding the last part though, both himself and noonan haven't really made comments like that without having one hand on a deal. It would be a welcome move and would significantly ease next years budget, another billion or so saved.

The eu presidency has come at a very fortunate time indeed.

My concerns are that the economic leaves are turning green but the roots are still very sick, there are a lot of businesses out there on the brink. We are very close to either recovery or sliding into permanent recession, we are very much on a knife edge and I think that's where noonan and enda are throwing caution to the wind somewhat.

Plus there are a lot of structural problems that need to be dealt with, welfare dependence, reducing role of govt, expanding the sme export sector, maintaining infrastructure including the likes of well functioning frontline services and keeping both aib and boi in Irish hands! to name a few.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:51 pm 
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Saint155 wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
Saint155 wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
I said many things on the various incarnations of this thread, even being one of your supporters on the bank guarantee.
My reason for posting the article though is that the government obviously feel that they have a chance of getting a lot of the 64 billion back from the EU, and that the IMF support this.

doubt they will get a write down of debt but being able to put more than just the Anglo debt on the long finger is the hope. Though wouldn't get my hopes up. Perhaps they might be able to just have it off the books some way.
Plus the 64 billion figure does not take into account money paid by the banks for the guarantee, shareholding in the banks and sale of preference shares. For example, BOI received about 4 billion from the bailout of which they have repaid to the exchequer about 2.5 billion and the state owns about 2 billion in preference shares which they will sell when it's best to do so. Unsure what the other banks have paid but it probably is equivalent which would suggest 3-4 billion territory.

They'll get the debt put on the never never as a minimum.
I'm surprised at the Kenny speech as it is really upping the ante and is trying to put a moral imperative on the EU to share the debt burden.

I don't think it is speech Kenny would make unless he thought, and had been given reason to think, that this was on the table.

you could be right regarding the last part though, both himself and noonan haven't really made comments like that without having one hand on a deal. It would be a welcome move and would significantly ease next years budget, another billion or so saved.

The eu presidency has come at a very fortunate time indeed.

My concerns are that the economic leaves are turning green but the roots are still very sick, there are a lot of businesses out there on the brink. We are very close to either recovery or sliding into permanent recession, we are very much on a knife edge and I think that's where noonan and enda are throwing caution to the wind somewhat.

Plus there are a lot of structural problems that need to be dealt with, welfare dependence, reducing role of govt, expanding the sme export sector, maintaining infrastructure including the likes of well functioning frontline services and keeping both aib and boi in Irish hands! to name a few.

Hence my love of 'Grands Projets'. They are the quickest way to reduce the dole queues, get people paying tax, get the rest of the pay packets circulating in the economy, whilst ending up with a nice piece of infrastructure at the end.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:50 pm 
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Grand projects are fine but there needs to be a utility for them, otherwise they are just famine walls.

Whisper it but was the money for terminal 2 well spent?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:53 pm 
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Uncle Fester wrote:

Whisper it but was the money for terminal 2 well spent?


Yes - that is a fantastic piece of long-term infrastructure, replacing an out-dated terminal 1.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:01 pm 
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Uncle Fester wrote:
Grand projects are fine but there needs to be a utility for them, otherwise they are just famine walls.

Whisper it but was the money for terminal 2 well spent?


One of the few top class pieces of infrastructure in the country.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:03 pm 
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Minnosu wrote:
Uncle Fester wrote:
Grand projects are fine but there needs to be a utility for them, otherwise they are just famine walls.

Whisper it but was the money for terminal 2 well spent?


One of the few top class pieces of infrastructure in the country.


Sets out a good statement for visitors to the country too. You put out your good china for visitors lads, it's the Irish way! We need a rail link to the city centre badly though - the M50 makes us look almost like a real country, the rail link would definitely pull the wool over their eyes.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:17 pm 
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Uncle Fester wrote:
Grand projects are fine but there needs to be a utility for them, otherwise they are just famine walls.

Whisper it but was the money for terminal 2 well spent?


I was there a couple of weeks ago on a Friday afternoon and it was fairly f**king quiet.

Which is great if you're going through security though.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:12 pm 
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Uncle Fester wrote:
Grand projects are fine but there needs to be a utility for them, otherwise they are just famine walls.

Whisper it but was the money for terminal 2 well spent?

Yes.

Unlike the money spent on the Cork Terminal - that was just a vanity spend for the Cork politicos.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:24 pm 
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It's interesting that those paid from the public purse have no problems forcing a 10% payroll cut on the banks, without any Croke Park shenanigans.

Quote:
State-owned banks told to cut pay and pensions
AIB, Bank of Ireland and Permanent TSB directed to cut remuneration by up to 8%



Tue, Mar 12, 2013, 16:18
First published:
Tue, Mar 12, 2013, 16:18


Minister for Finance Michael Noonan has directed Bank of Ireland, AIB and Permanent TSB to reduce their staff remuneration costs by 6 to 8 per cent to aid their return to profitability.
The reductions are to be introduced by cuts in payroll and pension benefits, and new working arrangements and structures to deliver efficiency gains. The banks will be expected to begin delivering the cost reductions in 2014.
This direction comes on foot of a report on bankers pay for the Government by consultants Mercer.
Mr Noonan said the remuneration cuts were “essential” for the banks to achieve a ”return to profitability” and “repay the State’s investment through a return to private ownership”.
He said “other options and measures” would be introduced by the Government to achieve the cost reductions in the event that the banks do not effect the savings that are being sought.
The report shows that salary levels at Irish banks are behind European averages for most grades. Since 2008, total remuneration at Bank of Ireland, AIB and PTSB fell by 6 to 11 per cent but rose by 1 per cent at Irish Bank Resolution Corporation, which largely reflects a premium paid to staff of that bank to compensate for the fact that it was in wind up mode prior to its liquidation by the Government on February 7th.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:43 pm 
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€609 million might be small fry compared to what we are chucking at the banks and at least we have something to show for it but we spent three times the initial estimates at a time when passenger numbers were falling like a stone.

Well we have it now so we may as well enjoy it but wouldn't the money have been better spent on some infrastructural projects that we might get use out of now rather than in 20 years time, like finishing the roads and doing something about the rail network?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:50 pm 
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Uncle Fester wrote:
€609 million might be small fry compared to what we are chucking at the banks and at least we have something to show for it but we spent three times the initial estimates at a time when passenger numbers were falling like a stone.

Well we have it now so we may as well enjoy it but wouldn't the money have been better spent on some infrastructural projects that we might get use out of now rather than in 20 years time, like finishing the roads and doing something about the rail network?

It's Aer Rianta (now Dublin Airport Authority) debt that they (the DAA) are paying off, not paid for by the government; so your point is somewhat specious. In fact I understand that the DAA have been able to raise the finance for the second runway.

And passenger numbers through Dublin Airport are rising again.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:42 pm 
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It's the fact that we paid more than we should have that sticks in the craw for me. We're desperate for getting value for money.

Anyway, on to more current and important business, the fellow who wrote this letter to the IT was on Prime Time tonight:
Quote:
Sir, – “If you cannot afford your present accommodation or a sensible debt restructuring then unfortunately you should declare insolvency and forfeit your house” writes Adrian Mulryan (February 25th) with a compassion that makes Attila the Hun look like Mother Teresa.

We have to recognise that in the midst of Celtic tiger property hysteria most buyers acted not of out greed or stupidity, but out of a desire to provide a long-term housing solution for themselves and their families.

In writing about the moral hazard of some potential resolutions one could equally highlight a point in our history when the residents of council estates were given the opportunity to purchase their homes at prices substantially below market levels, effectively being subsidised by the taxpayer. This was correctly regarded at the time as giving folk an opportunity that might not have otherwise have possible. Such enlightened and non-condemnatory thinking is badly needed in the current environment. – Yours, etc,

GEOFF SCARGILL,

Loreto Grange,

Bray, Co Wicklow.


So what did he have to say for himself?
Well...he has five rental properties, all on interest only.
Wants a 'deal' and claims he made jobs,paid lots of fees in the past by getting into the landlord business, etc.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:47 pm 
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Uncle Fester wrote:
It's the fact that we paid more than we should have that sticks in the craw for me. We're desperate for getting value for money.

Anyway, on to more current and important business, the fellow who wrote this letter to the IT was on Prime Time tonight:
Quote:
Sir, – “If you cannot afford your present accommodation or a sensible debt restructuring then unfortunately you should declare insolvency and forfeit your house” writes Adrian Mulryan (February 25th) with a compassion that makes Attila the Hun look like Mother Teresa.

We have to recognise that in the midst of Celtic tiger property hysteria most buyers acted not of out greed or stupidity, but out of a desire to provide a long-term housing solution for themselves and their families.

In writing about the moral hazard of some potential resolutions one could equally highlight a point in our history when the residents of council estates were given the opportunity to purchase their homes at prices substantially below market levels, effectively being subsidised by the taxpayer. This was correctly regarded at the time as giving folk an opportunity that might not have otherwise have possible. Such enlightened and non-condemnatory thinking is badly needed in the current environment. – Yours, etc,

GEOFF SCARGILL,

Loreto Grange,

Bray, Co Wicklow.


So what did he have to say for himself?
Well...he has five rental properties, all on interest only.
Wants a 'deal' and claims he made jobs,paid lots of fees in the past by getting into the landlord business, etc.

Commercial landlords should be treated commercially, ie the loans called in if they are not abiding by loan agreements, and the properties sold on to landlords who can make deals work.

And govt. spokesmen have made this plain in the press, and one assumes, to the lending institutions.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:59 pm 
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Would be nice if the IT did some actual journalism and weeded out underwater commercial landlords from whining on their letters page about needing a bailout for a housing solution for themselves and their families and their 5 rental properties.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:03 am 
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Uncle Fester wrote:
Would be nice if the IT did some actual journalism and weeded out underwater commercial landlords from whining on their letters page about needing a bailout for a housing solution for themselves and their families and their 5 rental properties.

Agreed.

Commercials, and Strategic defaulters need to be rinsed out as they are abusing the system.

Watch SF and the Loonies/beardies etc. get bbadly burnt supporting strategic defaulters.

And wait for the ghost of Parnell to be invoked regularly.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:08 am 
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T2 is beautiful...

I swear if someone burns down Busaras you'd kid yourself into thinking the city's aesthetically sound.


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