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Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:55 pm
by camroc1
Rumham wrote:
sewa wrote:
CM11 wrote:Ok, to use the phrase from American law dramas, he's arguing fruit from a forbidden tree and dismissing all subsequent evidence as a result whereas the DPP will argue that at the time the tree wasn't forbidden?

Does the case fall if just the mobile evidence is removed?
I followed the trial at the time (through the newspaper obviously). Without the phone evidence I reckon he walks, yeah before anyone asks thats an amateur opinion
I think that's the general consensus. That evidence places him at the scene of the crime and there was other evidence linking him directly to the murder. Without it there is really no case.
But that evidence is still evidence, as in unadulterated fact. The problem is that he won't walk but will have another trial. And good luck finding a jury in Ireland that won't find him guity next time out(ie everyone is aware of the phone evidence).

The evidence only showed where Dwyers phone was, ie it is entirely factual, and as such is always relevant to any trial.

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:08 am
by danthefan
Seems to be a slight step back from Snowmageddon, going to be f**king freezing but the dump of snow seems a bit less certain.

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:13 am
by camroc1
danthefan wrote:Seems to be a slight step back from Snowmageddon, going to be f**king freezing but the dump of snow seems a bit less certain.
Different models, different runs. They're rather like opinion polls in that you should only compare with the last run of that particular model; and in any event anything more than 3-4 days out it is trends you are looking for. What seems certain is that from next Monday we are going to have very cold air sourced in Siberia blowing over us for nearly a week. In those conditions, there will be snow.

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:35 am
by JoeMangled
Those boards wankers. I was ready for a a few days off.

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:23 pm
by nardol
AJ - perhaps you could give your opinion on this?

My opinion first of all is what the actual fudge is someone on the judiciary doing sticking their ugly mugs in to the realm of politics? Worst of all doing it through the press! Crossed the line there IMO.

Fair enough pointing out bottlenecks in the system and improvements but these should be done through back channels not in the press and also this is going further - its telling law makers what laws they should make / fund.

Taoiseach's letter to homeowner described as 'sick joke' by Master of High Court
Updated / Wednesday, 21 Feb 2018 11:00
Edmund Honohan said if community funding could be resourced, then co-op housing would be the way forward
Edmund Honohan said if community funding could be resourced, then co-op housing would be the way forward
Master of the High Court Edmund Honohan has described as "a sick joke", a letter sent from Taoiseach Leo Varadkar to a man seeking to avoid repossession of his home, to contact mortgage arrears adviser Abhaile.

Mr Honohan said he has people in his court, on a daily basis, who are struggling to hold off repossession, and he had asked them to contact the Taoiseach to see where they could find mortgage-to-rent as a solution.

Mr Honohan said Abhaile is of no use to these people because it is "merely a voucher for €250 worth of legal advice" before you go to the Circuit Court.

Speaking on RTÉ's Morning Ireland, he asked why the Taoiseach's office is so misinformed that it is unable to formulate a reasonable policy to cope with the wave of repossessions that is about to break.

He said if community funding could be resourced, then co-op housing would be the way forward, pointing out that over a million people in Norway live in co-operative housing.



He described it as a "friendly vulture" who would take over the non-performing loans and remove them from the bank books.

Regulation did not, he said, help those in arrears who do not have the money to do a deal.

Mr Honohan has written a new bill that would give greater powers to the State's financial and legal support services and stronger protections to people who are in mortgage arrears.

However, he said no political party had indicated support for his bill and that this "is a cross party effort".

He said he was "using the good offices of John McGuinness (Fianna Fail TD) to lodge it".

"The disaster affects voters of all parties and none, and a cross-party effort is what's required at this stage, rather than the pretty superficial commentary from all sides".

He said Senator David Norris introduced the last bill, which he described as a "first draft of this".

In relation to the PTSB mortgage situation, he said if anyone asked him in court what they should do next, he said he would tell them that "they must appeal the Circuit Court Order and approach a personal insolvency practitioner straight away".



He said: "Nobody is giving them that advice. Why should they have to come to me in court to get advice?

"It should be the Taoiseach who's telling them that".

He said because there is no public money available for mortgage to rent, ethical co-operative funding "should be allowed to come in and take up where the State has abysmally failed".

He said he has been "pressed by a number of TDs who have spoken to other private individuals outside who are keen to get involved".

Fianna Fail TDand Chairman of the Oireachtas Finance Committee John McGuinness says the bill proposed by Mr Honohan would make Ireland less attractive to vulture funds if passed.

Mr McGuinness told RTÉ's Today with Sean O'Rourke that he values Mr Honohan's advice and the bill he has put together.

He explained that a well regulated industry, along with the establishment of an ethical fund, would make Ireland less attractive to vulture funds.

Mr McGuinness warned that thousands of people were in danger of losing their homes, if PTSB sold its loan book.

Something drastic and extraordinary must be done, he said, if this was to be prevented.

Mr McGuinness said the finance committee would decide later if it should bring in PTSB to explain what loans are being sold on, what the discount price is and establish why that discount price is not being applied to the individual cases.

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:31 pm
by Blackrock Bullet
He is a disgrace. A grandstanding muppet.

He has an admin roll but thinks he is changing the world.

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:43 pm
by Mullet 2
How many years have been hearing about this wave of repossessions now? Always just over the hill.

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:50 pm
by Leinster in London
Mullet 2 wrote:How many years have been hearing about this wave of repossessions now? Always just over the hill.
Hmm, two days after PTSB sold 14,000 home loans to the vultures.

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:09 pm
by nardol
Why the political bitching about the sale of bad loans?
If someone can't afford the house they are in.... What the actual fudge are they doing in that house? Specially considering the strong recovery in house prices in the first place.

The reason banks are selling bad loans is because a bad loan that turns good takes a long time to be not calculated as a bad loan for regulatory purposes and for an Irish Bank to get possession of a property on which a bad loan rest is very difficult and that's not even covering the political difficulties (in AIB and PTSB case).

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:13 pm
by Mullet 2
Leinster in London wrote:
Mullet 2 wrote:How many years have been hearing about this wave of repossessions now? Always just over the hill.
Hmm, two days after PTSB sold 14,000 home loans to the vultures.

What sale?

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:19 pm
by Leinster in London
Mullet 2 wrote:
Leinster in London wrote:
Mullet 2 wrote:How many years have been hearing about this wave of repossessions now? Always just over the hill.
Hmm, two days after PTSB sold 14,000 home loans to the vultures.

What sale?
Sorry, proposed sale, which I note FF are jumping in to join with PBP to try and block.
Good luck fighting their battles.

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:28 pm
by Mullet 2
Pardon?

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:32 pm
by Witchfinder General
Leinster in London wrote:
Mullet 2 wrote:
Leinster in London wrote:
Mullet 2 wrote:How many years have been hearing about this wave of repossessions now? Always just over the hill.
Hmm, two days after PTSB sold 14,000 home loans to the vultures.

What sale?
Sorry, proposed sale, which I note FF are jumping in to join with PBP to try and block.
Good luck fighting their battles.
commies the lot of them, just ask mullet commissar of the malahide soviet

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:57 pm
by danthefan
nardol wrote:Why the political bitching about the sale of bad loans?
If someone can't afford the house they are in.... What the actual fudge are they doing in that house? Specially considering the strong recovery in house prices in the first place.

The reason banks are selling bad loans is because a bad loan that turns good takes a long time to be not calculated as a bad loan for regulatory purposes and for an Irish Bank to get possession of a property on which a bad loan rest is very difficult and that's not even covering the political difficulties (in AIB and PTSB case).
Because it lets them say stuff like VULTURES over and over and over again?

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:34 pm
by iarmhiman
Here is the latest GFS:

Looking likely for snow:

Image

Image[/img]

ECM 12z should be ready after 18:00 this evening. Will be very interesting

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:36 pm
by anonymous_joe
nardol wrote:AJ - perhaps you could give your opinion on this?

My opinion first of all is what the actual fudge is someone on the judiciary doing sticking their ugly mugs in to the realm of politics? Worst of all doing it through the press! Crossed the line there IMO.

Fair enough pointing out bottlenecks in the system and improvements but these should be done through back channels not in the press and also this is going further - its telling law makers what laws they should make / fund.

Taoiseach's letter to homeowner described as 'sick joke' by Master of High Court
Updated / Wednesday, 21 Feb 2018 11:00
Edmund Honohan said if community funding could be resourced, then co-op housing would be the way forward
Edmund Honohan said if community funding could be resourced, then co-op housing would be the way forward
Master of the High Court Edmund Honohan has described as "a sick joke", a letter sent from Taoiseach Leo Varadkar to a man seeking to avoid repossession of his home, to contact mortgage arrears adviser Abhaile.

Mr Honohan said he has people in his court, on a daily basis, who are struggling to hold off repossession, and he had asked them to contact the Taoiseach to see where they could find mortgage-to-rent as a solution.

Mr Honohan said Abhaile is of no use to these people because it is "merely a voucher for €250 worth of legal advice" before you go to the Circuit Court.

Speaking on RTÉ's Morning Ireland, he asked why the Taoiseach's office is so misinformed that it is unable to formulate a reasonable policy to cope with the wave of repossessions that is about to break.

He said if community funding could be resourced, then co-op housing would be the way forward, pointing out that over a million people in Norway live in co-operative housing.



He described it as a "friendly vulture" who would take over the non-performing loans and remove them from the bank books.

Regulation did not, he said, help those in arrears who do not have the money to do a deal.

Mr Honohan has written a new bill that would give greater powers to the State's financial and legal support services and stronger protections to people who are in mortgage arrears.

However, he said no political party had indicated support for his bill and that this "is a cross party effort".

He said he was "using the good offices of John McGuinness (Fianna Fail TD) to lodge it".

"The disaster affects voters of all parties and none, and a cross-party effort is what's required at this stage, rather than the pretty superficial commentary from all sides".

He said Senator David Norris introduced the last bill, which he described as a "first draft of this".

In relation to the PTSB mortgage situation, he said if anyone asked him in court what they should do next, he said he would tell them that "they must appeal the Circuit Court Order and approach a personal insolvency practitioner straight away".



He said: "Nobody is giving them that advice. Why should they have to come to me in court to get advice?

"It should be the Taoiseach who's telling them that".

He said because there is no public money available for mortgage to rent, ethical co-operative funding "should be allowed to come in and take up where the State has abysmally failed".

He said he has been "pressed by a number of TDs who have spoken to other private individuals outside who are keen to get involved".

Fianna Fail TDand Chairman of the Oireachtas Finance Committee John McGuinness says the bill proposed by Mr Honohan would make Ireland less attractive to vulture funds if passed.

Mr McGuinness told RTÉ's Today with Sean O'Rourke that he values Mr Honohan's advice and the bill he has put together.

He explained that a well regulated industry, along with the establishment of an ethical fund, would make Ireland less attractive to vulture funds.

Mr McGuinness warned that thousands of people were in danger of losing their homes, if PTSB sold its loan book.

Something drastic and extraordinary must be done, he said, if this was to be prevented.

Mr McGuinness said the finance committee would decide later if it should bring in PTSB to explain what loans are being sold on, what the discount price is and establish why that discount price is not being applied to the individual cases.
The Master's a sound lad, even if he's a right divvil to appear in front of. His brother is the policy wonk though, not him.

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:41 pm
by Duff Paddy
danthefan wrote:
nardol wrote:Why the political bitching about the sale of bad loans?
If someone can't afford the house they are in.... What the actual fudge are they doing in that house? Specially considering the strong recovery in house prices in the first place.

The reason banks are selling bad loans is because a bad loan that turns good takes a long time to be not calculated as a bad loan for regulatory purposes and for an Irish Bank to get possession of a property on which a bad loan rest is very difficult and that's not even covering the political difficulties (in AIB and PTSB case).
Because it lets them say stuff like VULTURES over and over and over again?
:lol: so true in fairness

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:41 pm
by Duff Paddy
I see Donnelly is doing a Brexit roadshow - he likes to say Vulture a lot too

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:41 pm
by camroc1
danthefan wrote:
nardol wrote:Why the political bitching about the sale of bad loans?
If someone can't afford the house they are in.... What the actual fudge are they doing in that house? Specially considering the strong recovery in house prices in the first place.

The reason banks are selling bad loans is because a bad loan that turns good takes a long time to be not calculated as a bad loan for regulatory purposes and for an Irish Bank to get possession of a property on which a bad loan rest is very difficult and that's not even covering the political difficulties (in AIB and PTSB case).
Because it lets them say stuff like VULTURES over and over and over again?
These are people who took out mortgages and stopped paying them back. Some because they lost their jobs, and couldn't sell without bankrupting themselves, and some, well, because they chose not to repay. What they also have in common is that they either have not engaged with the bank, or have and then reneged again. Many of them will not have made repayments for 8 years + whilst remaining in the property. We all know the legal ramifications of not repaying your mortgage, you lose your house, and owe any balance after a fire sale. These people have, on the whole, been playing silly buggers with the system, an refusing to engage with the bank for that length of time has meant me not having very much sympathy at all. And, most people I'd have thought, who have ever taken out a mortgage and persevered when times were tough, and interest rates at 20% +, would feel similarly.

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:47 pm
by Mullet 2
camroc1 wrote:
danthefan wrote:
nardol wrote:Why the political bitching about the sale of bad loans?
If someone can't afford the house they are in.... What the actual fudge are they doing in that house? Specially considering the strong recovery in house prices in the first place.

The reason banks are selling bad loans is because a bad loan that turns good takes a long time to be not calculated as a bad loan for regulatory purposes and for an Irish Bank to get possession of a property on which a bad loan rest is very difficult and that's not even covering the political difficulties (in AIB and PTSB case).
Because it lets them say stuff like VULTURES over and over and over again?
These are people who took out mortgages and stopped paying them back. Some because they lost their jobs, and couldn't sell without bankrupting themselves, and some, well, because they chose not to repay. What they also have in common is that they either have not engaged with the bank, or have and then reneged again. Many of them will not have made repayments for 8 years + whilst remaining in the property. We all know the legal ramifications of not repaying your mortgage, you lose your house, and owe any balance after a fire sale. These people have, on the whole, been playing silly buggers with the system, an refusing to engage with the bank for that length of time has meant me not having very much sympathy at all. And, most people I'd have thought, who have ever taken out a mortgage and persevered when times were tough, and interest rates at 20% +, would feel similarly.

There are 14,000 mortgages in the sale.

Relax on the sweeping generalisations.

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:48 pm
by anonymous_joe
My understanding from the IT was that this particular tranche was largely full of people who had "failed to engage."

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:49 pm
by Mullet 2
We don't know anything about what is or isn't in the tranche.

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:06 pm
by camroc1
Mullet 2 wrote:We don't know anything about what is or isn't in the tranche.
Yes we do, unless you are accusing PTSB of lying. From the IT :
Private homes make up over 75% of PTSB’s €3.7bn Project Glas portfolio
Bank says that, on average, loans are three and a half years in arrears
about 22 hours ago
Charlie Taylor
PTSB said many of these loans are owned by customers who have not engaged with the banks, whose mortgages are unsustainable, or who have been unable to meet terms


Private homes account for more than three-quarters of Project Glas, the controversial €3.7billion property portfolio being put up for sale by Permanent TSB.

The bank said many of the affected loans were with customers who had not engaged with PTSB in a number of years.

“Some account holders have not engaged with the bank for over seven years and, on average, the loans are over 3.5 years in arrears,” PTSB said in a statement. “Many have made no payments at all for years.”

The decision to sell off the non-performing loans has come under fire over concerns that they could be sold to so-called “vulture funds”, many of which are not regulated in the Republic.

The bank said on Tuesday that 14,000 of the 18,000 properties included in Project Glas are private homes. It said the total face value of all loans included in Project Glas is approximately €3.7 billion, of which about €2.7 billion relates to private residences.


PTSB said that €2 billion of these loans are owned by customers who have not engaged with the banks, whose mortgages are unsustainable, or who have been unable to meet terms.

The bank added that some loans are also currently subject to agreed forbearance measures, but remain categorised as non-performing loans.

“It is important to note that, in preparing this loan book for sale, the bank did exclude a significant number of customers who will be resolved through other means,” it said.

The overall size of the planned sales is equivalent to almost a fifth of the bank’s current total loan book. About €1 billion in non-performing loans included in Project Glas relate to investment properties.

PTSB last week announced the proposed sale of the portfolio. It said it is not alone among euro zone banks in having to deal with non-performing loans.


“The bank believes that now is an appropriate time to implement measures that are considered part of normal banking practices in the UK and other European countries,” it said.

It added that a failure to deal with non-performing loans impacted on a new generation of home buyers who “need to be able to engage with healthy, competitive banks who can finance and purchase homes”.

“The banks themselves need to ensure they are strong, profitable and capable of withstanding potential future shocks,” the bank concluded.

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:06 pm
by paddyor
Mullet 2 wrote:We don't know anything about what is or isn't in the tranche.
It's being reported as a portfolio of no performing private home loans. What else would it be?

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:09 pm
by Mullet 2
camroc1 wrote:
Mullet 2 wrote:We don't know anything about what is or isn't in the tranche.
Yes we do, unless you are accusing PTSB of lying. From the IT :
Private homes make up over 75% of PTSB’s €3.7bn Project Glas portfolio
Bank says that, on average, loans are three and a half years in arrears
about 22 hours ago
Charlie Taylor
PTSB said many of these loans are owned by customers who have not engaged with the banks, whose mortgages are unsustainable, or who have been unable to meet terms


Private homes account for more than three-quarters of Project Glas, the controversial €3.7billion property portfolio being put up for sale by Permanent TSB.

The bank said many of the affected loans were with customers who had not engaged with PTSB in a number of years.

“Some account holders have not engaged with the bank for over seven years and, on average, the loans are over 3.5 years in arrears,” PTSB said in a statement. “Many have made no payments at all for years.”

The decision to sell off the non-performing loans has come under fire over concerns that they could be sold to so-called “vulture funds”, many of which are not regulated in the Republic.

The bank said on Tuesday that 14,000 of the 18,000 properties included in Project Glas are private homes. It said the total face value of all loans included in Project Glas is approximately €3.7 billion, of which about €2.7 billion relates to private residences.


PTSB said that €2 billion of these loans are owned by customers who have not engaged with the banks, whose mortgages are unsustainable, or who have been unable to meet terms.

The bank added that some loans are also currently subject to agreed forbearance measures, but remain categorised as non-performing loans.

“It is important to note that, in preparing this loan book for sale, the bank did exclude a significant number of customers who will be resolved through other means,” it said.

The overall size of the planned sales is equivalent to almost a fifth of the bank’s current total loan book. About €1 billion in non-performing loans included in Project Glas relate to investment properties.

PTSB last week announced the proposed sale of the portfolio. It said it is not alone among euro zone banks in having to deal with non-performing loans.


“The bank believes that now is an appropriate time to implement measures that are considered part of normal banking practices in the UK and other European countries,” it said.

It added that a failure to deal with non-performing loans impacted on a new generation of home buyers who “need to be able to engage with healthy, competitive banks who can finance and purchase homes”.

“The banks themselves need to ensure they are strong, profitable and capable of withstanding potential future shocks,” the bank concluded.

Yes because our banks are pillars of honesty

Shut up Camroc :lol:

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:10 pm
by Mullet 2
paddyor wrote:
Mullet 2 wrote:We don't know anything about what is or isn't in the tranche.
It's being reported as a portfolio of no performing private home loans. What else would it be?

We don't know the extent of which they are non performing.

Camroc and the bank are peddling the line that they are all people who haven't made a payment in 10 years. A blatant lie.

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:14 pm
by paddyor
iarmhiman wrote:Here is the latest GFS:

Looking likely for snow:
Spoiler: show
Image

Image[/img]

ECM 12z should be ready after 18:00 this evening. Will be very interesting


What exactly are we looking at? Is it the system to the south at 980?

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:15 pm
by camroc1
Ah, Mullet has gone and joined the Freeman movement.

The depths Martin will trawl when FF are 11% behind FG.

So, will you be joining the PBP protests Mullet ?

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:17 pm
by Mullet 2
I'm in favour of selling the loans :lol:

I'm just not gobbling down the shite PTSB are spinning.

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:38 pm
by paddyor
Mullet 2 wrote:
paddyor wrote:
Mullet 2 wrote:We don't know anything about what is or isn't in the tranche.
It's being reported as a portfolio of no performing private home loans. What else would it be?

We don't know the extent of which they are non performing.

Camroc and the bank are peddling the line that they are all people who haven't made a payment in 10 years. A blatant lie.
They're not though. They've admitted it contains split mortgages which are classified as NP. Also I don't as many people care about this as you/FF think.

I see that chancer David Hall is claiming that you can be classed as non cooperating by underhanded methods by the bank even though this is forbidden by the CB guidelines.

I'd say a huge proportion of the btl loans are 10 years in arrears.

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:59 pm
by anonymous_joe
There are plenty of examples of people being declared non-co-operating by error or worse. It's not that beneficial though.

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:03 pm
by rfurlong
Mullet 2 wrote:
paddyor wrote:
Mullet 2 wrote:We don't know anything about what is or isn't in the tranche.
It's being reported as a portfolio of no performing private home loans. What else would it be?

We don't know the extent of which they are non performing.

Camroc and the bank are peddling the line that they are all people who haven't made a payment in 10 years. A blatant lie.
I hear you're a communist now, Mullet? Should we all be communist now? What's the Soldiers
Of Destiny position? I'm so busy working me bollix off to pay my mortgage, I won't have much time for the ol' communism.

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:30 pm
by Duff Paddy
Fianna Fáil trying to stack the property market for small time speculators and farmers. fudge off.

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:36 pm
by CM11
FF aren't going to regain enough votes to get close to a majority for quite a while yet, IMO. I'm not sure FG can either. So both will need to work together for the next while. I guess FF have to protect their base by not looking like a junior coalition party too much so any possible way to have a go at the government will be used. I presume they know themselves that even if they end up as the majority party they'll be relying on FG to prop them up.

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:40 pm
by anonymous_joe
For what it's worth, I had a look at the judgments website to see if there are any PTSB ones.

This is just one case, but all too often, the banks are forced to listen to this nonsense.

http://www.courts.ie/Judgments.nsf/0985 ... enDocument

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:10 pm
by Nolanator
Precis, please. I ain't reading that!

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:40 pm
by camroc1
Nolanator wrote:Precis, please. I ain't reading that!
One of Mullets new Freeman friends abusing the legal process in an attempt to avoid legitimate repossession in a case where no payments were made on a pair of BTLs for 6 yrs +.

AJ, is there not some filter that can root these cases out before they waste taxpayers money in the HC ?

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:42 pm
by Miguel Indurain
nardol wrote:Why the political bitching about the sale of bad loans?
If someone can't afford the house they are in.... What the actual fudge are they doing in that house? Specially considering the strong recovery in house prices in the first place.

The reason banks are selling bad loans is because a bad loan that turns good takes a long time to be not calculated as a bad loan for regulatory purposes and for an Irish Bank to get possession of a property on which a bad loan rest is very difficult and that's not even covering the political difficulties (in AIB and PTSB case).
No, that's not the reason the banks are selling loans that are in arrears.

The European Central Bank issued a directive in 2013 to all Eurozone banks to sort out their capital reserves and to sort out non-performing loans on their loan books, under Single Supervisory Mechanism.

Banks were ordered to (i) Increase the size of their reserves so as to be better placed to withstand an economic shock.
(ii) Improve their corporate solvency by selling non-performing loans in their loanbook.

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:52 pm
by Uncle Fester
If they don't want De Vultures after them, then they should pay their mortgage. Simples.

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:55 pm
by nardol
When I wrote that I foolishly thought the loans PTSB were selling were loans that were restructured and on which payments were being made again.
It takes something like 2 years for a mortgage to go back to being a performing from being an NPL.

As the ECB is starting to wind down its QE and rate rises are approaching they are looking at Italian, Spanish and Irish banks in particular to lower their NPLs before this happens.

The capitalisation issues by enlarge have been dealt with yonks ago and are not so much an issue anymore. Its the last piece of balance sheet clean up for the banks. Once the hold-co (in ireland) debt issuances are rolled out we will be where the regulators want us to be.