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Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:59 pm
by Rumham
nardol wrote:
Rumham wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
nardol wrote:Zero improvement on catchment areas for any of the south side
But the ability to move passengers will have increased from 8k per hour for the current LUAS units and frequency to in excess of 30k per hour for metro.
What happens now with the green line. Is it just going to be scrapped?

I'm sure they went through all the options day one but looks like a fiasco for forward planning back in the day.
Convert current Luas track from Ranelagh to metro is it not?

Wouldnt be as huge an undertaking converting track rather than placing new track.
I'll admit I've read the article as it seems to be blocked where I am...

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:02 pm
by Blackrock Bullet
nardol wrote:
Blackrock Bullet wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
nardol wrote:Zero improvement on catchment areas for any of the south side
But the ability to move passengers will have increased from 8k per hour for the current LUAS units and frequency to in excess of 30k per hour for metro.

EDIT @Nardol

Road space will just be taken away from vehicular traffic to accommodate segregated bus and cycle lanes.
Yep. So we need to identify quick orbital routes that you can ferry people a couple of miles to the Metro stops. Buses every 5 minutes. Short hops.
Orbital roads that could be used are worse than the linear roads in to town....?

I dont see it working but would be happy to be proven wrong.
Why are they worse? School traffic? You are saying that the direct roads to town are better than orbital ones?

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:04 pm
by camroc1
Blackrock Bullet wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
nardol wrote:Zero improvement on catchment areas for any of the south side
But the ability to move passengers will have increased from 8k per hour for the current LUAS units and frequency to in excess of 30k per hour for metro.

EDIT @Nardol

Road space will just be taken away from vehicular traffic to accommodate segregated bus and cycle lanes.
Yep. So we need to identify quick orbital routes that you can ferry people a couple of miles to the Metro stops. Buses every 5 minutes. Short hops.
If you had the N-S metro, and the E-W LUAS underground, buses could run on grid routes, intersecting with the DART/Metro lines at various points, and not all routes heading into 'An Lár' substantially reducing congestion.

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:06 pm
by Bullettyme
Rumham wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
nardol wrote:Zero improvement on catchment areas for any of the south side
But the ability to move passengers will have increased from 8k per hour for the current LUAS units and frequency to in excess of 30k per hour for metro.
What happens now with the green line. Is it just going to be scrapped?

I'm sure they went through all the options day one but it looks like a fiasco for forward planning back in the day.
Green line to be kept up, basically the Luas Crosscity will remain, would make sense if they had a couple of spurs there on the northside too.

I just don't know what they're going to do in terms of the stations going to Dundrum, surely they're not big enough to take a metro type tram?

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:12 pm
by camroc1
Bullettyme wrote:
Rumham wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
nardol wrote:Zero improvement on catchment areas for any of the south side
But the ability to move passengers will have increased from 8k per hour for the current LUAS units and frequency to in excess of 30k per hour for metro.
What happens now with the green line. Is it just going to be scrapped?

I'm sure they went through all the options day one but it looks like a fiasco for forward planning back in the day.
Green line to be kept up, basically the Luas Crosscity will remain, would make sense if they had a couple of spurs there on the northside too.

I just don't know what they're going to do in terms of the stations going to Dundrum, surely they're not big enough to take a metro type tram?
I'm not sure I understand. The existing line from Charlemont to Sandyford is to full heavy rail standard including distance between tracks. Station platforms may need lengthening but the room is there for that, and electricity supply probably needs upgrading, But the actual civil engineering infrastructure is there already.

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:14 pm
by Bullettyme
camroc1 wrote:
Bullettyme wrote:
Rumham wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
nardol wrote:Zero improvement on catchment areas for any of the south side
But the ability to move passengers will have increased from 8k per hour for the current LUAS units and frequency to in excess of 30k per hour for metro.
What happens now with the green line. Is it just going to be scrapped?

I'm sure they went through all the options day one but it looks like a fiasco for forward planning back in the day.
Green line to be kept up, basically the Luas Crosscity will remain, would make sense if they had a couple of spurs there on the northside too.

I just don't know what they're going to do in terms of the stations going to Dundrum, surely they're not big enough to take a metro type tram?
I'm not sure I understand. The existing line from Charlemont to Sandyford is to full heavy rail standard including distance between tracks. Station platforms may need lengthening but the room is there for that, and electricity supply probably needs upgrading, But the actual civil engineering infrastructure is there already.
I mean the lengthening of stations. Metro trains are generally pretty long, considerably longer than the current Luas trams.

And as you mention electricity supply, it will be overhead wires moving to a third rail when it goes underground?

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:24 pm
by Duff Paddy
Bullettyme wrote:
Rumham wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
nardol wrote:Zero improvement on catchment areas for any of the south side
But the ability to move passengers will have increased from 8k per hour for the current LUAS units and frequency to in excess of 30k per hour for metro.
What happens now with the green line. Is it just going to be scrapped?

I'm sure they went through all the options day one but it looks like a fiasco for forward planning back in the day.
Green line to be kept up, basically the Luas Crosscity will remain, would make sense if they had a couple of spurs there on the northside too.

I just don't know what they're going to do in terms of the stations going to Dundrum, surely they're not big enough to take a metro type tram?
I’ve been on trains in London where you can only get out from certain carriages at short platforms. Not ideal but it’s not a disaster either

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:25 pm
by camroc1
Bullettyme wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
Bullettyme wrote:
Rumham wrote:
camroc1 wrote: But the ability to move passengers will have increased from 8k per hour for the current LUAS units and frequency to in excess of 30k per hour for metro.
What happens now with the green line. Is it just going to be scrapped?

I'm sure they went through all the options day one but it looks like a fiasco for forward planning back in the day.
Green line to be kept up, basically the Luas Crosscity will remain, would make sense if they had a couple of spurs there on the northside too.

I just don't know what they're going to do in terms of the stations going to Dundrum, surely they're not big enough to take a metro type tram?
I'm not sure I understand. The existing line from Charlemont to Sandyford is to full heavy rail standard including distance between tracks. Station platforms may need lengthening but the room is there for that, and electricity supply probably needs upgrading, But the actual civil engineering infrastructure is there already.
I mean the lengthening of stations. Metro trains are generally pretty long, considerably longer than the current Luas trams.

And as you mention electricity supply, it will be overhead wires moving to a third rail when it goes underground?
Lengthening of platforms is very simple. AS for your second question, it could be either, depends on the e/o cost of tunneling to accommodate an O/H wire.

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:34 pm
by Bullettyme
camroc1 wrote: Lengthening of platforms is very simple. AS for your second question, it could be either, depends on the e/o cost of tunneling to accommodate an O/H wire.
Is it though? Is there room for that in Charlemont where the stop is on a bridge? Or Dundrum? Or Ranelagh? Fair enough the likes of Cowper, Milltown. They'd be easy enough.

To be honest for all intents and purposes the Luas is basically a metro once it gets past Charlemont, so it makes sense to put something with higher capacity, particularly as everything is currently rammed past Glencairn every morning. Good luck when they begin the transition though, or have to close sections. I still think it's abit pie in the sky at the moment, and not too far off being a fiasco.

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:05 pm
by nardol
It will be shit but needs to be done. Sure were people not moaning about the Luas before / during it being built?


Can you imagine the Luas not being there now?

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:16 pm
by camroc1
Bullettyme wrote:
camroc1 wrote: Lengthening of platforms is very simple. AS for your second question, it could be either, depends on the e/o cost of tunneling to accommodate an O/H wire.
Is it though? Is there room for that in Charlemont where the stop is on a bridge? Or Dundrum? Or Ranelagh? Fair enough the likes of Cowper, Milltown. They'd be easy enough.

To be honest for all intents and purposes the Luas is basically a metro once it gets past Charlemont, so it makes sense to put something with higher capacity, particularly as everything is currently rammed past Glencairn every morning. Good luck when they begin the transition though, or have to close sections. I still think it's abit pie in the sky at the moment, and not too far off being a fiasco.
It's not. A metro will be able to transport 4 times the number of passengers per hour than the all new extended LUAS carriages.

You're talking 8,000 passengers per hour capacity of LUAS, and more than 30,000 passengers per hour capacity on metro.

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:26 pm
by Miguel Indurain
camroc1 wrote:
Bullettyme wrote:
camroc1 wrote: Lengthening of platforms is very simple. AS for your second question, it could be either, depends on the e/o cost of tunneling to accommodate an O/H wire.
Is it though? Is there room for that in Charlemont where the stop is on a bridge? Or Dundrum? Or Ranelagh? Fair enough the likes of Cowper, Milltown. They'd be easy enough.

To be honest for all intents and purposes the Luas is basically a metro once it gets past Charlemont, so it makes sense to put something with higher capacity, particularly as everything is currently rammed past Glencairn every morning. Good luck when they begin the transition though, or have to close sections. I still think it's abit pie in the sky at the moment, and not too far off being a fiasco.
It's not. A metro will be able to transport 4 times the number of passengers per hour than the all new extended LUAS carriages.

You're talking 8,000 passengers per hour capacity of LUAS, and more than 30,000 passengers per hour capacity on metro.
It makes sense to make as much use of the existing (LUAS) infrastructure to create this proposed Metro line, in my view.

Building a metro/luas line from scratch as they did starting in the late 1990's, transport mayhem ensued during the building phase as those of us here who are old enough can recall vividly.

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:34 pm
by Bullettyme
camroc1 wrote:
Bullettyme wrote:
camroc1 wrote: Lengthening of platforms is very simple. AS for your second question, it could be either, depends on the e/o cost of tunneling to accommodate an O/H wire.
Is it though? Is there room for that in Charlemont where the stop is on a bridge? Or Dundrum? Or Ranelagh? Fair enough the likes of Cowper, Milltown. They'd be easy enough.

To be honest for all intents and purposes the Luas is basically a metro once it gets past Charlemont, so it makes sense to put something with higher capacity, particularly as everything is currently rammed past Glencairn every morning. Good luck when they begin the transition though, or have to close sections. I still think it's abit pie in the sky at the moment, and not too far off being a fiasco.
It's not. A metro will be able to transport 4 times the number of passengers per hour than the all new extended LUAS carriages.

You're talking 8,000 passengers per hour capacity of LUAS, and more than 30,000 passengers per hour capacity on metro.
I was talking about the speed in which it travels, considering that I mentioned that increased capacity will be welcomed and the current Luas is badly equipped to deal with peak traffic.

Good luck to them extending the platforms is all I can say, because some of them don't look like they'll take expansion.

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:53 pm
by danthefan
camroc1 wrote:
Bullettyme wrote:
camroc1 wrote: Lengthening of platforms is very simple. AS for your second question, it could be either, depends on the e/o cost of tunneling to accommodate an O/H wire.
Is it though? Is there room for that in Charlemont where the stop is on a bridge? Or Dundrum? Or Ranelagh? Fair enough the likes of Cowper, Milltown. They'd be easy enough.


To be honest for all intents and purposes the Luas is basically a metro once it gets past Charlemont, so it makes sense to put something with higher capacity, particularly as everything is currently rammed past Glencairn every morning. Good luck when they begin the transition though, or have to close sections. I still think it's abit pie in the sky at the moment, and not too far off being a fiasco.
It's not. A metro will be able to transport 4 times the number of passengers per hour than the all new extended LUAS carriages.

You're talking 8,000 passengers per hour capacity of LUAS, and more than 30,000 passengers per hour capacity on metro.
How does this work? Simply by running bigger trains? More frequent trains? The green line is a disaster at the moment, why can't they increase capacity as it is if the track is there?

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:04 pm
by Blackrock Bullet
Have a look at what a DART carriage can fill versus a Luas one.

8k is unacceptable.

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:15 pm
by camroc1
danthefan wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
Bullettyme wrote:
camroc1 wrote: Lengthening of platforms is very simple. AS for your second question, it could be either, depends on the e/o cost of tunneling to accommodate an O/H wire.
Is it though? Is there room for that in Charlemont where the stop is on a bridge? Or Dundrum? Or Ranelagh? Fair enough the likes of Cowper, Milltown. They'd be easy enough.


To be honest for all intents and purposes the Luas is basically a metro once it gets past Charlemont, so it makes sense to put something with higher capacity, particularly as everything is currently rammed past Glencairn every morning. Good luck when they begin the transition though, or have to close sections. I still think it's abit pie in the sky at the moment, and not too far off being a fiasco.
It's not. A metro will be able to transport 4 times the number of passengers per hour than the all new extended LUAS carriages.

You're talking 8,000 passengers per hour capacity of LUAS, and more than 30,000 passengers per hour capacity on metro.
How does this work? Simply by running bigger trains? More frequent trains? The green line is a disaster at the moment, why can't they increase capacity as it is if the track is there?
It's a function of size of carriage, number of carriages per train, and increased frequency.

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:17 pm
by paddyor
Mullet 2 wrote:Finglas Spur would be a good idea.

Fúck the Southside, full of cúnts anyway.
Fingluas is on the cards apparently. Noel rock is taking credit.

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:11 pm
by redderneck
FFS lads at the sort of speeds which have been quoted recently we should just scrap vehicular pubkic transport and lay moving walkways on top of all the existing road network and be done with it.

Leave the footpaths to the cyclists.

Plant random bouncing bettys around the new College Green plaza to take out the inevitable skangers and skateboarders. Paddy Power would probably sponsor it.

It's doable I tells ya. Just need vision like.

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:27 pm
by camroc1
redderneck wrote:FFS lads at the sort of speeds which have been quoted recently we should just scrap vehicular pubkic transport and lay moving walkways on top of all the existing road network and be done with it.

Leave the footpaths to the cyclists.

Plant random bouncing bettys around the new College Green plaza to take out the inevitable skangers and skateboarders. Paddy Power would probably sponsor it.

It's doable I tells ya. Just need vision like.
Ah the 10kph speed limit imposed by the railway safety regulator, is only a temporary measure, On street speeds will be 20 - 30 kph by the summer.

What I've noted is that to date, since the commencement of LUAS cross street, Dublin bus have rerouted 17 bus routes that used to travel through College Green

Think about that for a minute, before wonderiing aloud, wtf are Dublin Bus playing at ?

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:38 pm
by The Sun God
This City is getting unmanageable from a traffic point of view.... IMO it's the worst in Europe. I left Merrion square this morning at 12.00 to get to a funeral in Malahide for 1.00, got into the village at 1.20. 10 miles and 80 minutes at non rush hour. WTF has that LUAS crap done to the city ?

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:41 pm
by nardol
Should have gone with the Dart from Pearse.

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:45 pm
by Blackrock Bullet
What it goes to show is the dysfunctional nature of the NTA, RPA, CIE and it’s associated subsidiaries.

The opening of the Luas Cross City should have seen these routes already moved. This should be dictated to Dublin Bus, not their decision.

What you have throughout the system is various fiefdoms. Accountants and executives in some of the state companies who obviously want to look brilliant and blame someone else, not work together. We have a quasi segregated system at the moment between the state, regulator, holding company and subsidiaries where when you need collective decision making it’s lacking and where you need independent commercial focus it’s the same.

I know from family involved that the Leap Card set up was delayed and very controversial because of these fiefdoms. Think about how they had the Oyster Card in London for years where Transport for London organised. In Dublin, where the majority of transport means are owned by the CIE, it was all our war between the subs.

Then you have the unions.

Thankfully I think one of those problems should be solved quite soon.

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:49 pm
by paddyor
The Sun God wrote:This City is getting unmanageable from a traffic point of view.... IMO it's the worst in Europe. I left Merrion square this morning at 12.00 to get to a funeral in Malahide for 1.00, got into the village at 1.20. 10 miles and 80 minutes at non rush hour. WTF has that LUAS crap done to the city ?
Lunch time is rush hour but that is bad.

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:55 pm
by Bullettyme
nardol wrote:Should have gone with the Dart from Pearse.
I don't think TSG does public transport :lol:

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:59 pm
by The Sun God
nardol wrote:Should have gone with the Dart from Pearse.
Yeah.....cheers for that.

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:04 pm
by camroc1
Blackrock Bullet wrote:What it goes to show is the dysfunctional nature of the NTA, RPA, CIE and it’s associated subsidiaries.

The opening of the Luas Cross City should have seen these routes already moved. This should be dictated to Dublin Bus, not their decision.

What you have throughout the system is various fiefdoms. Accountants and executives in some of the state companies who obviously want to look brilliant and blame someone else, not work together. We have a quasi segregated system at the moment between the state, regulator, holding company and subsidiaries where when you need collective decision making it’s lacking and where you need independent commercial focus it’s the same.

I know from family involved that the Leap Card set up was delayed and very controversial because of these fiefdoms. Think about how they had the Oyster Card in London for years where Transport for London organised. In Dublin, where the majority of transport means are owned by the CIE, it was all our war between the subs.

Then you have the unions.

Thankfully I think one of those problems should be solved quite soon.
Agree.

And yet you still have the nonsence of CIE/Dublin Bus appealing the proposed College Green Plaza Scheme to ABP because it might interfere withe the running of their buses.

FWIW my first job, post University in 1986, was for a UK based transportation engineering consultancy who were retained by the Dept. of the Environment to give them 'honest' advice given the various claims made by the Corporation, CIE and the other vested interests. Common ticketing first came up then with CIE-DART and CIE-Dublin Bus at each others throats.

Plus ca change...............

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:08 pm
by Duff Paddy
TSG should have taken a chopper

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:11 pm
by Miguel Indurain
camroc1 wrote:
Blackrock Bullet wrote:What it goes to show is the dysfunctional nature of the NTA, RPA, CIE and it’s associated subsidiaries.

The opening of the Luas Cross City should have seen these routes already moved. This should be dictated to Dublin Bus, not their decision.

What you have throughout the system is various fiefdoms. Accountants and executives in some of the state companies who obviously want to look brilliant and blame someone else, not work together. We have a quasi segregated system at the moment between the state, regulator, holding company and subsidiaries where when you need collective decision making it’s lacking and where you need independent commercial focus it’s the same.

I know from family involved that the Leap Card set up was delayed and very controversial because of these fiefdoms. Think about how they had the Oyster Card in London for years where Transport for London organised. In Dublin, where the majority of transport means are owned by the CIE, it was all our war between the subs.

Then you have the unions.

Thankfully I think one of those problems should be solved quite soon.
Agree.

And yet you still have the nonsence of CIE/Dublin Bus appealing the proposed College Green Plaza Scheme to ABP because it might interfere withe the running of their buses.

FWIW my first job, post University in 1986, was for a UK based transportation engineering consultancy who were retained by the Dept. of the Environment to give them 'honest' advice given the various claims made by the Corporation, CIE and the other vested interests. Common ticketing first came up then with CIE-DART and CIE-Dublin Bus at each others throats.

Plus ca change...............
Dublin Bus must only have just been founded at that point because up to 1987, buses were operated by CIE.

This is what is difficult to fathom, all of these entities were part of the same company CIE from 1945. How parochialism was allowed develop so quickly should have been addressed there and then. Instead the travelling public get inconvenienced at every turn since CIE began to get broken up in 1986.

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:22 pm
by Mullet 2
The Sun God wrote:This City is getting unmanageable from a traffic point of view.... IMO it's the worst in Europe. I left Merrion square this morning at 12.00 to get to a funeral in Malahide for 1.00, got into the village at 1.20. 10 miles and 80 minutes at non rush hour. WTF has that LUAS crap done to the city ?

Big funeral I hear. TO'C a legend in his own time.

I shouldn't have taken you that long though. Must have been a crash.

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:27 pm
by The Sun God
Mullet 2 wrote:
The Sun God wrote:This City is getting unmanageable from a traffic point of view.... IMO it's the worst in Europe. I left Merrion square this morning at 12.00 to get to a funeral in Malahide for 1.00, got into the village at 1.20. 10 miles and 80 minutes at non rush hour. WTF has that LUAS crap done to the city ?

Big funeral I hear. TO'C a legend in his own time.

I shouldn't have taken you that long though. Must have been a crash.
A legend in his own fcuking lunchbox more likely.... ;) .......He is 6 months older than me so I will give him the benefit of age.

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:30 pm
by Mullet 2
Ah yeah but he hasn't swanned off into the sunset ;)

Speaking of which you don't want a few corporate packages for Saturday do you?

Unrelated of course :smug:

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:31 pm
by nardol
The NAMA thread has become done deal

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:33 pm
by ticketlessinseattle
Duff Paddy wrote:TSG should have taken a chopper
jesus, they were a great bike

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:37 pm
by The Sun God
Mullet 2 wrote:Ah yeah but he hasn't swanned off into the sunset ;)

Speaking of which you don't want a few corporate packages for Saturday do you?

Unrelated of course :smug:
I got a text from T O'C couple of weeks back and one of my ex colleagues in Dublin has taken up quite a few. Sounds nice as I like that restaurant even though a 2.15 KO is a massive pain in the hole when trying to get punters out of a restaurant....... I have my own tickets but thanks all the same.

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:17 pm
by Mullet 2
The Sun God wrote:
Mullet 2 wrote:Ah yeah but he hasn't swanned off into the sunset ;)

Speaking of which you don't want a few corporate packages for Saturday do you?

Unrelated of course :smug:
I got a text from T O'C couple of weeks back and one of my ex colleagues in Dublin has taken up quite a few. Sounds nice as I like that restaurant even though a 2.15 KO is a massive pain in the hole when trying to get punters out of a restaurant....... I have my own tickets but thanks all the same.

God loves a tryer.

I'm looking forward to it.

Bringing the Father as a treat

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:26 pm
by Leinster in London
Miguel Indurain wrote:
Uncle Fester wrote:

There's different levels of strategic default. The extreme end are the Paul Howard types taking rents in cash but not paying the mortgage but you also have folks who don't manage money well or prioritise badly. Remember reading about the wife of the Garda saying they ate cornflakes for dinner because they were so hard up but when she was interviewed on radio, it turned out that the real source of their problem was private school fees for their children. Likewise people who take multiple foreign holidays a year but are claiming hardship when it comes to paying the mortgage.

The only way to flush out this kind of carry on is to have it in plain black and white. Pay your mortgage or you're out.
When people here use the term strategic default it would be useful to know what they define as a strategic default.

The Paul Howard character is most certainly a strategic defaulter.
Some might argue, as you have, that the corn flake eaters are like Howard, others might say that they're more accidental defaulters.

My own view is that the owner occupied property in arrears should be treated differently than the btl property in arrears, by the bank selling the loan and by the fund acquiring that loan.

My other point is that this strategy by Noonan inviting funds in to our country was cynical as it was treacherous.
It was the mother of all cop outs.
It was unfortunate, but it was political, and another consequence of Lenihan's bank guarantee.
Because the banks came under state ownership the could no longer do the necessary, which was to get all loans working. Under state ownership they could not turf out the non performers and be in control to whom they flip it to. Ideally that would have been to you and me at basically the same discount the vultures are getting.

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:10 pm
by Duff Paddy
1 Microsoft Place opened today. Nice gaff.

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:20 pm
by Blackrock Bullet
Miguel Indurain wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
Blackrock Bullet wrote:What it goes to show is the dysfunctional nature of the NTA, RPA, CIE and it’s associated subsidiaries.

The opening of the Luas Cross City should have seen these routes already moved. This should be dictated to Dublin Bus, not their decision.

What you have throughout the system is various fiefdoms. Accountants and executives in some of the state companies who obviously want to look brilliant and blame someone else, not work together. We have a quasi segregated system at the moment between the state, regulator, holding company and subsidiaries where when you need collective decision making it’s lacking and where you need independent commercial focus it’s the same.

I know from family involved that the Leap Card set up was delayed and very controversial because of these fiefdoms. Think about how they had the Oyster Card in London for years where Transport for London organised. In Dublin, where the majority of transport means are owned by the CIE, it was all our war between the subs.

Then you have the unions.

Thankfully I think one of those problems should be solved quite soon.
Agree.

And yet you still have the nonsence of CIE/Dublin Bus appealing the proposed College Green Plaza Scheme to ABP because it might interfere withe the running of their buses.

FWIW my first job, post University in 1986, was for a UK based transportation engineering consultancy who were retained by the Dept. of the Environment to give them 'honest' advice given the various claims made by the Corporation, CIE and the other vested interests. Common ticketing first came up then with CIE-DART and CIE-Dublin Bus at each others throats.

Plus ca change...............
Dublin Bus must only have just been founded at that point because up to 1987, buses were operated by CIE.

This is what is difficult to fathom, all of these entities were part of the same company CIE from 1945. How parochialism was allowed develop so quickly should have been addressed there and then. Instead the travelling public get inconvenienced at every turn since CIE began to get broken up in 1986.
It is a minefield to sort out. You have a gaping pensions hole sitting on CIE’s balance sheet and all the property too. What goes where if you were to try and split them out as wholly separate? There’s people who have worked across the three entities in their working lives. If you find a way to split that though you will sink each of the three’s balance sheets. The only way you could keep them looking good is splitting out the property, which runs into state aid rules without question in time. Even if you somehow did that then how does locations of cross service work?

Once you split out the three companies you need to start paying for things on commercial terms, which will show off just how inefficient these companies are.

To my mind there needs to be merger of CIE with the NTA. Keep the properties with the new regulator/state infrastructure holding co. and lease them to the newly independent companies. Somehow, someway, keep the pension black holes off the three independent companies balance sheets, and don’t fall foul of the EU. Get rid of all the cross services between the three and redeploy CIE staff. This new body becomes a regulator, setting routes and owning the infrastructure.

That is the only way to avoid job losses/sink the pensions and trying to get some kind of order on the situation but I guarantee it won’t happen even then. The unions will know that once you farm out the three subs it makes it far easier to sell off one of them or run it down.

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:24 pm
by Liathroidigloine
In many cases the attitude of the banks to kick the can down the road has worked. I have a number of clients who were in substantial negative position on properties. Had the banks made them sell in the 2010-2016 period then the banks would have recouped the low value of the property and then have the balance of the loan unsecured on someone who probably hadn't the resources to meet payments.

In most cases the negative equity situation has evaporated and the properties have now returned to normal values leaving the banks and the original owners in a decent position. The loans in these cases were non performing as the rent didn't cover the repayments and some might call it a strategic default but it was the most sensible play from the point of view of the bank and the borrower.

The banks have probably provided heavily for these loans and will in all likelihood sell them on for more than their "carrying" value in which case they will realise a profit on the transaction while cleaning up their balance sheet.

Re: Rugby NAMA thread Revisited Rugby

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:29 pm
by Nolanator
The Sun God wrote:This City is getting unmanageable from a traffic point of view.... IMO it's the worst in Europe. I left Merrion square this morning at 12.00 to get to a funeral in Malahide for 1.00, got into the village at 1.20. 10 miles and 80 minutes at non rush hour. WTF has that LUAS crap done to the city ?
Shouldn't have a car on Merrion square when there's a perfectly good Dart to Mallahide.