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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:02 pm 
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Below 34k is a large margin.
Someone on 20k for example pays 700 euro tax.

By having tax kicking in at such a high number the income tax band is very narrow. Its why USC should stay as it broadens the income tax base a lot. Tax reduction should occur by widening the bans / introducing more bands. It rewards people who work and so actually need extra cash for childcare as opposed to those who don't work and so don't really need it.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:36 pm 
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nardol wrote:
Below 34k is a large margin.
Someone on 20k for example pays 700 euro tax.

By having tax kicking in at such a high number the income tax band is very narrow. Its why USC should stay as it broadens the income tax base a lot. Tax reduction should occur by widening the bans / introducing more bands. It rewards people who work and so actually need extra cash for childcare as opposed to those who don't work and so don't really need it.


Total tax for someone on 20k is over €1700


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:20 pm 
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Stats - the point I’m making is that over 1m workers pay no income tax .... that’s one third of all wage earners in the country

It’s bonkers

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/eco ... -1.3544848


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:41 pm 
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rfurlong wrote:
Stats - the point I’m making is that over 1m workers pay no income tax .... that’s one third of all wage earners in the country

It’s bonkers

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/eco ... -1.3544848


What's bonkers from that article is that 750k workers earn less than 13k a year.

I get your point in general but I'm not sure going after people earning under that figure is particularly fair. If anything they should be applauded for working rather than sitting on their arse and we get a fair chunk of their salary back anyway.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:48 pm 
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CM11 wrote:
rfurlong wrote:
Stats - the point I’m making is that over 1m workers pay no income tax .... that’s one third of all wage earners in the country

It’s bonkers

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/eco ... -1.3544848


What's bonkers from that article is that 750k workers earn less than 13k a year.

I get your point in general but I'm not sure going after people earning under that figure is particularly fair. If anything they should be applauded for working rather than sitting on their arse and we get a fair chunk of their salary back anyway.

What's utterly bonkers is that those on SW "earning" a hell of a lot more than 13k a year pay no tax.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:48 pm 
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CM11 wrote:
nardol wrote:
Below 34k is a large margin.
Someone on 20k for example pays 700 euro tax.

By having tax kicking in at such a high number the income tax band is very narrow. Its why USC should stay as it broadens the income tax base a lot. Tax reduction should occur by widening the bans / introducing more bands. It rewards people who work and so actually need extra cash for childcare as opposed to those who don't work and so don't really need it.


Total tax for someone on 20k is over €1700


You're off a good bit.
A single person on 20k:

Tax €700.00
USC €237.09
PRSI €458.67


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:52 pm 
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nardol wrote:
CM11 wrote:
nardol wrote:
Below 34k is a large margin.
Someone on 20k for example pays 700 euro tax.

By having tax kicking in at such a high number the income tax band is very narrow. Its why USC should stay as it broadens the income tax base a lot. Tax reduction should occur by widening the bans / introducing more bands. It rewards people who work and so actually need extra cash for childcare as opposed to those who don't work and so don't really need it.


Total tax for someone on 20k is over €1700


You're off a good bit.
A single person on 20k:

Tax €700.00
USC €237.09
PRSI €458.67


Prsi is 800 according to the tax calculator I just used. Where are you getting 458.67 from?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:53 pm 
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camroc1 wrote:
CM11 wrote:
rfurlong wrote:
Stats - the point I’m making is that over 1m workers pay no income tax .... that’s one third of all wage earners in the country

It’s bonkers

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/eco ... -1.3544848


What's bonkers from that article is that 750k workers earn less than 13k a year.

I get your point in general but I'm not sure going after people earning under that figure is particularly fair. If anything they should be applauded for working rather than sitting on their arse and we get a fair chunk of their salary back anyway.

What's utterly bonkers is that those on SW "earning" a hell of a lot more than 13k a year pay no tax.


True, true.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:01 am 
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CM11 wrote:
nardol wrote:
CM11 wrote:
nardol wrote:
Below 34k is a large margin.
Someone on 20k for example pays 700 euro tax.

By having tax kicking in at such a high number the income tax band is very narrow. Its why USC should stay as it broadens the income tax base a lot. Tax reduction should occur by widening the bans / introducing more bands. It rewards people who work and so actually need extra cash for childcare as opposed to those who don't work and so don't really need it.


Total tax for someone on 20k is over €1700


You're off a good bit.
A single person on 20k:

Tax €700.00
USC €237.09
PRSI €458.67


Prsi is 800 according to the tax calculator I just used. Where are you getting 458.67 from?


Looks like the one I was using is inaccurate, doesn't include PRSI credits. Anyway, point stands, they pay a lot more than €700.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:21 am 
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CM11 wrote:
nardol wrote:
CM11 wrote:
nardol wrote:
Below 34k is a large margin.
Someone on 20k for example pays 700 euro tax.

By having tax kicking in at such a high number the income tax band is very narrow. Its why USC should stay as it broadens the income tax base a lot. Tax reduction should occur by widening the bans / introducing more bands. It rewards people who work and so actually need extra cash for childcare as opposed to those who don't work and so don't really need it.


Total tax for someone on 20k is over €1700


You're off a good bit.
A single person on 20k:

Tax €700.00
USC €237.09
PRSI €458.67


Prsi is 800 according to the tax calculator I just used. Where are you getting 458.67 from?



If you earn less than 22048 you receive a credit which reduces your PRSI payment. The maximum credit is 624 but this is reduced gradually until it reaches zero at 22048.

an effective tax rate of 7%


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:40 am 
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A lot of people on under 13k would be part time workers in college. Doesn’t make sense to test them all the same.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:47 am 
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Blackrock Bullet wrote:
A lot of people on under 13k would be part time workers in college. Doesn’t make sense to test them all the same.


I'd assumed a fair bit was part time alright but I'm just surprised it's so many of the workforce.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:52 am 
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CM11 wrote:
rfurlong wrote:
Stats - the point I’m making is that over 1m workers pay no income tax .... that’s one third of all wage earners in the country

It’s bonkers

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/eco ... -1.3544848


What's bonkers from that article is that 750k workers earn less than 13k a year.

I get your point in general but I'm not sure going after people earning under that figure is particularly fair. If anything they should be applauded for working rather than sitting on their arse and we get a fair chunk of their salary back anyway.


No stats - these are mostly people who are working part time (max 3 days a week) and also receiving social welfare


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:54 am 
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Joan Burton just spouting bullshit on Newstalk this morning.

My kingdom, my kingdom for the Labour Party. :((


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:03 am 
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Duff Paddy wrote:
CM11 wrote:
rfurlong wrote:
Stats - the point I’m making is that over 1m workers pay no income tax .... that’s one third of all wage earners in the country

It’s bonkers

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/eco ... -1.3544848


What's bonkers from that article is that 750k workers earn less than 13k a year.

I get your point in general but I'm not sure going after people earning under that figure is particularly fair. If anything they should be applauded for working rather than sitting on their arse and we get a fair chunk of their salary back anyway.


No stats - these are mostly people who are working part time (max 3 days a week) and also receiving social welfare


As above, it's the sheer number. But either way, at least they're working.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:07 am 
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No, we should tax them and make full time welfare even more attractive!

That's the paradox at the heart of our income tax system.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:08 am 
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Duff Paddy wrote:

No stats - these are mostly people who are working part time (max 3 days a week) and also receiving social welfare


So what? Some people have children to look after, others have sick elderly family members etc. You sound so judgemental and high and mighty. Its a bit sick how little empathy you have for others who are working and just about getting struggling by


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:14 am 
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Uncle Fester wrote:
No, we should tax them and make full time welfare even more attractive!

That's the paradox at the heart of our income tax system.

Haven't you consistently argued against taxing SW payments whenever I've brought the topic up ?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:16 am 
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camroc1 wrote:
Uncle Fester wrote:
No, we should tax them and make full time welfare even more attractive!

That's the paradox at the heart of our income tax system.

Haven't you consistently argued against taxing SW payments whenever I've brought the topic up ?

Thinking of somebody else Cam.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:24 am 
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sewa wrote:
Duff Paddy wrote:

No stats - these are mostly people who are working part time (max 3 days a week) and also receiving social welfare


So what? Some people have children to look after, others have sick elderly family members etc. You sound so judgemental and high and mighty. Its a bit sick how little empathy you have for others who are working and just about getting struggling by


Never change :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:28 am 
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Mullet 2 wrote:
sewa wrote:
Duff Paddy wrote:

No stats - these are mostly people who are working part time (max 3 days a week) and also receiving social welfare


So what? Some people have children to look after, others have sick elderly family members etc. You sound so judgemental and high and mighty. Its a bit sick how little empathy you have for others who are working and just about getting struggling by


Never change :lol:


I won't change, certainly not when some arrogant little D4 shite decides to dismiss a million Irish working people as wasters :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:32 am 
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Somebody bring him a ladder to mount his high horse


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:25 am 
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https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/new ... 06183.html

The rental market hitting new lows by the day.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:59 am 
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anonymous_joe wrote:
Joan Burton just spouting bullshit on Newstalk this morning.

My kingdom, my kingdom for the Labour Party. :((


heard that interview .... she was an absolute embarrassment

this is the natural consequence of Labour running scared of the likes of david hall and other spoofers like pb4p

instead of talking sense (i.e. that the funds buying these mortgage books are LESS likely to foreclose on mortgage holders than the banks are), she spews out complete nonsense that the Irish state should prevent the banks from offloading these distressed loans

labour policy is therefore summed up thus:

don't allow the banks to offload the loans
don't allow the banks to foreclose
don't allow any issues around personal responsibility or moral hazard enter the debate and keep the emotive BS flowing

Labour are genuinely fvcked with people like joan and aodhan o'amadan at the helm


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:24 pm 
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sewa wrote:
Mullet 2 wrote:
sewa wrote:
Duff Paddy wrote:

No stats - these are mostly people who are working part time (max 3 days a week) and also receiving social welfare


So what? Some people have children to look after, others have sick elderly family members etc. You sound so judgemental and high and mighty. Its a bit sick how little empathy you have for others who are working and just about getting struggling by


Never change :lol:


I won't change, certainly not when some arrogant little D4 shite decides to dismiss a million Irish working people as wasters :thumbup:


In your rush to virtue signal it appears you believe you read something that I didn’t actually write. I made no comment on the rights or wrongs of part time work whilst claiming SW. You absolute cretin. You too Ditch.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:26 pm 
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rfurlong wrote:
anonymous_joe wrote:
Joan Burton just spouting bullshit on Newstalk this morning.

My kingdom, my kingdom for the Labour Party. :((


heard that interview .... she was an absolute embarrassment

this is the natural consequence of Labour running scared of the likes of david hall and other spoofers like pb4p

instead of talking sense (i.e. that the funds buying these mortgage books are LESS likely to foreclose on mortgage holders than the banks are), she spews out complete nonsense that the Irish state should prevent the banks from offloading these distressed loans

labour policy is therefore summed up thus:

don't allow the banks to offload the loans
don't allow the banks to foreclose
don't allow any issues around personal responsibility or moral hazard enter the debate and keep the emotive BS flowing

Labour are genuinely fvcked with people like joan and aodhan o'amadan at the helm


But they’re called vulture funds. Sounds scary. Ask sewa or ditch


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:41 pm 
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The Irish times are such scum. They have a photo of the hearse carrying the body of Emma Mhic Mathuna driving past the gates of Leinster house. Cause it’s Leo and Harris who killed her like. It f**king dangerous having a media so bloody stupid and irresponsible


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:43 pm 
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Duff Paddy wrote:

But they’re called vulture funds. Sounds scary. Ask sewa or ditch


Please point out where I've commented on this. You will be looking for quite a while so it will give everyone a break


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:45 pm 
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sewa wrote:
Duff Paddy wrote:

But they’re called vulture funds. Sounds scary. Ask sewa or ditch


Please point out where I've commented on this. You will be looking for quite a while so it will give everyone a break


viewtopic.php?f=3&t=27991&p=4318788&hilit=Vulture#p4318788


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:48 pm 
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Duff Paddy wrote:
sewa wrote:
Duff Paddy wrote:

But they’re called vulture funds. Sounds scary. Ask sewa or ditch


Please point out where I've commented on this. You will be looking for quite a while so it will give everyone a break


viewtopic.php?f=3&t=27991&p=4318788&hilit=Vulture#p4318788


I said its banks crystallising losses which it is. I said the vulture funds will make a mint which they are, what part of this are you having difficulty with? I said nothing about the owners rights or whether this should be allowed legally which is clearly the angle you were aiming for


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:56 pm 
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Duff Paddy wrote:
The Irish times are such scum. They have a photo of the hearse carrying the body of Emma Mhic Mathuna driving past the gates of Leinster house. Cause it’s Leo and Harris who killed her like. It f**king dangerous having a media so bloody stupid and irresponsible


Hysterical much.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:59 pm 
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Duff Paddy wrote:
The Irish times are such scum. They have a photo of the hearse carrying the body of Emma Mhic Mathuna driving past the gates of Leinster house. Cause it’s Leo and Harris who killed her like. It f**king dangerous having a media so bloody stupid and irresponsible


check out their 'business' section today

sleeveen articles on Naughten, DOB and others, dressed up as financial journalism .... they are a rag


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:02 pm 
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Bullettyme wrote:
Duff Paddy wrote:
The Irish times are such scum. They have a photo of the hearse carrying the body of Emma Mhic Mathuna driving past the gates of Leinster house. Cause it’s Leo and Harris who killed her like. It f**king dangerous having a media so bloody stupid and irresponsible


Hysterical much.


what do you think they meant to portray with that photo


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:28 pm 
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Duff Paddy wrote:
Bullettyme wrote:
Duff Paddy wrote:
The Irish times are such scum. They have a photo of the hearse carrying the body of Emma Mhic Mathuna driving past the gates of Leinster house. Cause it’s Leo and Harris who killed her like. It f**king dangerous having a media so bloody stupid and irresponsible


Hysterical much.


what do you think they meant to portray with that photo


Same as the day before the abortion referendum when they published a photo of a Garda carrying a ballot box past a Marian shrine on one of the islands.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:11 pm 
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Charleton 3.0 is out. Good read.

https://static.rasset.ie/documents/news/2018/10/disclosures-tribunal-third-interim-report.pdf


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:30 pm 
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I see Frances Fitzgerald has been vindicated.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:51 pm 
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CM11 wrote:
I see Frances Fitzgerald has been vindicated.

You won't see FF, the SHinners or the loony lefties offering any apologies for what they said or did either.

And you can add all of the fúcking mainstream media to that list as well.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:16 pm 
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Remind me of what the deal with FrannieFitz was? There's something new to be outraged by every 6 months, so I forget older ones.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:25 pm 
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Nolanator wrote:
Remind me of what the deal with FrannieFitz was? There's something new to be outraged by every 6 months, so I forget older ones.

From the IT, who should be first in line to apologise.

Quote:
Frances Fitzgerald acted appropriately at all times – Charleton
Former minister for justice exonerated by tribunal report
about an hour ago
Harry McGee


The Charleton Tribunal has fully accepted the evidence of former tánaiste and minister for justice Frances Fitzgerald about her knowledge of, and responses to, an alleged Garda strategy to undermine the reputation of Garda whistleblower Maurice McCabe.

The Tribunal report gives a clear exoneration to Ms Fitzgerald, who was forced to resign from the Government in November 2017 as a result of the political controversy surrounding her role.

It has also made the finding that her decision not to interfere when informed of the strategy “was not a lazy dodging of the issues but rather a considered response to the information”.

And it has concluded she had not, at any time, spoken with former Garda commissioner Noirin O’Sullivan about this matter.

The Tribunal has found she acted appropriately at all times, and had been the political victim of a furore that escalated from a misconception of the Garda strategy towards Sgt McCabe at the O’Higgins Commission two years earlier in 2015.

Media reports
A series of media reports in late 2017 disclosed that Ms Fitzgerald’s office had received a number of communications in 2015 about a Garda strategy in the O’Higgins Commission that questioned Mr McCabe’s motivations.

In the ensuing controversy, it was claimed Ms Fitzgerald was aware, or should have been aware, of an alleged aggressive strategy, during 2015, much earlier than she had said she was aware.

In his findings, Mr Justice Peter Charleton has referred to communications that would have reached the Minister in 2015 but also intimates that the nature of the strategy was exaggerated.


The report has honed in on particular on briefing prepared for Ms Fitzgerald in July 2015, in response to a query received from an RTÉ reporter John Burke asking had counsel for the Garda questioned Mr McCabe’s motivation at the O’Higgins Commission.


Mr Justice Charleton has stated: “A short note was sent to her in which her officials unfortunately translated the query from being one about motivation into whether the “Garda Commissioner . . . had instructed counsel to adopt an aggressive stance towards Sgt McCabe at the O’Higgins commission.”

“It may have been from this that the myth of some kind of aggressive conduct towards Maurice McCabe before the O’Higgins Commission began to grow.”

He goes on to conclude there was no particular reason for the Minister to remember this.

“That would especially meet with the mindset that disposes of issues in a busy life and puts them behind as no longer requiring to be remembered or attended to. The tribunal accepts the Minister’s evidence.”

Inaccurate phrase
However, elsewhere, the Tribunal chairman has noted that the inaccurate phrase “aggressive stance” took on a life of its own.

“In November 2017, all that politicians, the public and the media had to go on were the leaked snippets of transcript; and subsequently, an email sent to the Department on 15 May 2015 regarding a row at the O’Higgins Commission was made public.

“This had somehow transmogrified over time into an allegation that Maurice McCabe had been maliciously accused before the O’Higgins Commission of multiple and false sexual assault offences with a view to damaging his credit-worthiness; that the Garda Commissioner had authorised this; that the Minister had been informed; and that the Minister had stood back and allowed it to happen.”

The chairman then describes the outcome of the controversy that resulted: “In the result, at a crucial juncture for Ireland in the Brexit negotiations, the Government of our country came close to falling and in the ultimate result Frances Fitzgerald resigned from office on 28 November 2017.”

The Tribunal has examined the correspondence that emerged when a row occurred in the O’Higgins Commission over the Garda Commissioner’s strategy. When a senior official wrote to the Minister’s secretary describing the issue, he used the phrase ‘for information’.

“It is probable that the Minister read this email at some stage on the Friday, using her mobile device,” the Tribunal has concluded. “ It was some days later, on 25 May 2015, that the matter came back noted as having been read by her. Her decision was not to interfere.”

Mr Justice Charleton recalled her evidence to the Tribunal in which she said it would be “completely inappropriate for me, as Minister to interfere, to have any political interference”.

“The day of political interference in something like that was well gone, as far as I was concerned.”

Asking was this wrong, the Tribunal accepts this evidence as an honest appraisal of the situation.”

“It was not a lazy dodging of the issues but rather a considered response to the information. The tribunal is satisfied that the Minister and the Garda Commissioner did not speak about the matter.”


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:00 pm 
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Duff Paddy wrote:
The Irish times are such scum. They have a photo of the hearse carrying the body of Emma Mhic Mathuna driving past the gates of Leinster house. Cause it’s Leo and Harris who killed her like. It f**king dangerous having a media so bloody stupid and irresponsible

The whole thing was a farce. Like sorry for your loss but get over yourself it wasn't negligence that killed her. Some doctors were snotty.


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