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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:18 am 
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nardol wrote:
Liathroidigloine wrote:
lorcanoworms wrote:
Amazing the strokes farmers will tell you about when they have a few pints, soon turns from bemoaning their lot to bragging.
Anyone else notice it's getting hard to shift houses that are fixer uppers?
In Dublin by the way.


Beef farmers don't make a penny. Most of the smaller do it for the love of the job and have other off farm jobs to support them. They also produce a premium product for which they are not paid a premium price.


Too many small time farmers = low productivity. The farming industry needs mergers to be sustainable (read profitable).


I don't want mass produced beef in feed lots. We have a premium product, market it as such and charge appropriately.

I had a 10 oz fabulous rib eye that cost me around €4.50. That should really be €6.50.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:21 am 
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Who says bigger farms has to mean feed lots?

The problem here is very simple. The Farmers started co-ops up from the 60s on to provide an alternative source for their products. Then the cúnts got greedy and sold them all to the big producers and are now shocked that they are now AGAIN having the price dictated to them.

If they don't like the price they don't have to sell. Like the rest of us.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:26 am 
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nardol wrote:
Liathroidigloine wrote:
lorcanoworms wrote:
Amazing the strokes farmers will tell you about when they have a few pints, soon turns from bemoaning their lot to bragging.
Anyone else notice it's getting hard to shift houses that are fixer uppers?
In Dublin by the way.


Beef farmers don't make a penny. Most of the smaller do it for the love of the job and have other off farm jobs to support them. They also produce a premium product for which they are not paid a premium price.


Too many small time farmers = low productivity. The farming industry needs mergers to be sustainable (read profitable).

This.
Mostly a consequence of the politically motivated carving up of the old estates into small holdings where having 100 acres made you a large farmer. And the subsequent reluctance of every farmer to sell "family land".


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:37 am 
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Speaking of public sector overspending etc, I found myself in St James's Hospital yesterday. Bloody hell, the size of the NCH site! Impressive to see down into the foundations. It really is a massive construction project


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:43 am 
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rfurlong wrote:
Getting a bit sick and tired of FG continous spending ..... and we’re heading for another half a billion overspend in health too by the looks of things.

The main thing that politicians in FG especially don’t get, is that almost all of their spending is to appease sections of society that will never vote for them anyway

Instead of tax cuts for those who get up early in the morning, we get PS pay hikes for Labour party members, free houses for solidarity/PBP supporters, free water for the shinners, free broadband for FF’s base etc etc

it’s a joke at this stage


It’s a massive problem. It’s impossible to deny it’s anything but reckless spending at this stage. Why are all of our political parties so short termist. We have a potentially catastrophic event on the horizon in Brexit and these guys are throwing money around like it’s 2007.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:44 am 
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Duff Paddy wrote:
rfurlong wrote:
Getting a bit sick and tired of FG continous spending ..... and we’re heading for another half a billion overspend in health too by the looks of things.

The main thing that politicians in FG especially don’t get, is that almost all of their spending is to appease sections of society that will never vote for them anyway

Instead of tax cuts for those who get up early in the morning, we get PS pay hikes for Labour party members, free houses for solidarity/PBP supporters, free water for the shinners, free broadband for FF’s base etc etc

it’s a joke at this stage


It’s a massive problem. It’s impossible to deny it’s anything but reckless spending at this stage. Why are all of our political parties so short termist. We have a potentially catastrophic event on the horizon in Brexit and these guys are throwing money around like it’s 2007.


Because they give the people what they want


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:45 am 
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Mullet 2 wrote:
Who says bigger farms has to mean feed lots?

The problem here is very simple. The Farmers started co-ops up from the 60s on to provide an alternative source for their products. Then the cúnts got greedy and sold them all to the big producers and are now shocked that they are now AGAIN having the price dictated to them.

If they don't like the price they don't have to sell. Like the rest of us.


Because you will remove the "farmer" from the equation and end up with producers. They will look for the lowest cost production method and animal welfare and quality will suffer.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:52 am 
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Duff Paddy wrote:
rfurlong wrote:
Getting a bit sick and tired of FG continous spending ..... and we’re heading for another half a billion overspend in health too by the looks of things.

The main thing that politicians in FG especially don’t get, is that almost all of their spending is to appease sections of society that will never vote for them anyway

Instead of tax cuts for those who get up early in the morning, we get PS pay hikes for Labour party members, free houses for solidarity/PBP supporters, free water for the shinners, free broadband for FF’s base etc etc

it’s a joke at this stage


It’s a massive problem. It’s impossible to deny it’s anything but reckless spending at this stage. Why are all of our political parties so short termist. We have a potentially catastrophic event on the horizon in Brexit and these guys are throwing money around like it’s 2007.


Irish water showed that FG didn't have the appetite to annoy any lobby group.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:52 am 
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That's just IFA nonsense

To get the premium price they will continue to be grass fed (cheaper anyway) and welfare can be insured by legislation.

There are small famers up and down the country in court every week for animal cruelty, lets not pretend this is the set of Babe.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:55 am 
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Liathroidigloine wrote:
Mullet 2 wrote:
Who says bigger farms has to mean feed lots?

The problem here is very simple. The Farmers started co-ops up from the 60s on to provide an alternative source for their products. Then the cúnts got greedy and sold them all to the big producers and are now shocked that they are now AGAIN having the price dictated to them.

If they don't like the price they don't have to sell. Like the rest of us.


Because you will remove the "farmer" from the equation and end up with producers. They will look for the lowest cost production method and animal welfare and quality will suffer.


If you dont see the farmer as a producer there is your problem. Like it or not farmers have to take part in the process as an economic party and they are subject to economic realities just like the rest of the world. Economies of scale will benefit farmers bottom line but you have to accept you will have less landowning farmers as a result.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:00 pm 
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nardol wrote:
Liathroidigloine wrote:
Mullet 2 wrote:
Who says bigger farms has to mean feed lots?

The problem here is very simple. The Farmers started co-ops up from the 60s on to provide an alternative source for their products. Then the cúnts got greedy and sold them all to the big producers and are now shocked that they are now AGAIN having the price dictated to them.

If they don't like the price they don't have to sell. Like the rest of us.


Because you will remove the "farmer" from the equation and end up with producers. They will look for the lowest cost production method and animal welfare and quality will suffer.


If you dont see the farmer as a producer there is your problem. Like it or not farmers have to take part in the process as an economic party and they are subject to economic realities just like the rest of the world. Economies of scale will benefit farmers bottom line but you have to accept you will have less landowning farmers as a result.


I really don't like the world you are selling. You want us all to live in shoeboxes in cities and hollow out the countryside with massive factory farms. No thanks.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:01 pm 
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A lot of the problem at the moment is the doolally (and I don't mean FF) indos, with seats in cabinet persuing their own, very particular, objectives.

It would have been much better to have a FG/FF colaition.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:02 pm 
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camroc1 wrote:
It would have been much better to have a FG/FF colaition.


The counter argument to this is that such a coalition would give SF more legitimacy as leaders of the opposition.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:03 pm 
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Liathroidigloine wrote:
nardol wrote:
Liathroidigloine wrote:
Mullet 2 wrote:
Who says bigger farms has to mean feed lots?

The problem here is very simple. The Farmers started co-ops up from the 60s on to provide an alternative source for their products. Then the cúnts got greedy and sold them all to the big producers and are now shocked that they are now AGAIN having the price dictated to them.

If they don't like the price they don't have to sell. Like the rest of us.


Because you will remove the "farmer" from the equation and end up with producers. They will look for the lowest cost production method and animal welfare and quality will suffer.


If you dont see the farmer as a producer there is your problem. Like it or not farmers have to take part in the process as an economic party and they are subject to economic realities just like the rest of the world. Economies of scale will benefit farmers bottom line but you have to accept you will have less landowning farmers as a result.


I really don't like the world you are selling. You want us all to live in shoeboxes in cities and hollow out the countryside with massive factory farms. No thanks.

No one, bar you, is talking about factory farms, or feedlots.

The average farm size in Ireland is something like 30 hectares.

Get that up towards 200 hectares and farmers have the size to make money.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:10 pm 
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[quote="Liathroidigloine"][quote="lorcanoworms"]Amazing the strokes farmers will tell you about when they have a few pints, soon turns from bemoaning their lot to bragging.
Anyone else notice it's getting hard to shift houses that are fixer uppers?
In Dublin by the way.[/quote]

Beef farmers don't make a penny. Most of the smaller do it for the love of the job and have other off farm jobs to support them. They also produce a premium product for which they are not paid a premium price.[/quote]


Great, where do I apply for a subsidy for my hobbies ?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:14 pm 
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I like to make buses from wine boxes


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:15 pm 
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camroc1 wrote:
Liathroidigloine wrote:
nardol wrote:
Liathroidigloine wrote:
Mullet 2 wrote:
Who says bigger farms has to mean feed lots?

The problem here is very simple. The Farmers started co-ops up from the 60s on to provide an alternative source for their products. Then the cúnts got greedy and sold them all to the big producers and are now shocked that they are now AGAIN having the price dictated to them.

If they don't like the price they don't have to sell. Like the rest of us.


Because you will remove the "farmer" from the equation and end up with producers. They will look for the lowest cost production method and animal welfare and quality will suffer.


If you dont see the farmer as a producer there is your problem. Like it or not farmers have to take part in the process as an economic party and they are subject to economic realities just like the rest of the world. Economies of scale will benefit farmers bottom line but you have to accept you will have less landowning farmers as a result.


I really don't like the world you are selling. You want us all to live in shoeboxes in cities and hollow out the countryside with massive factory farms. No thanks.

No one, bar you, is talking about factory farms, or feedlots.

The average farm size in Ireland is something like 30 hectares.

Get that up towards 200 hectares and farmers have the size to make money.


You really are keen on killing off rural Ireland, aren't you?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:25 pm 
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Alternative is rural ireland doesnt change and it dies because everyone buys their beef from Netherlands, France, Hungary etc etc.

Like the world I'm selling or not but the future is reliant in farmers making a living


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:25 pm 
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Liathroidigloine wrote:
Mullet 2 wrote:
Who says bigger farms has to mean feed lots?

The problem here is very simple. The Farmers started co-ops up from the 60s on to provide an alternative source for their products. Then the cúnts got greedy and sold them all to the big producers and are now shocked that they are now AGAIN having the price dictated to them.

If they don't like the price they don't have to sell. Like the rest of us.


Because you will remove the "farmer" from the equation and end up with producers. They will look for the lowest cost production method and animal welfare and quality will suffer.

Animal welfare? it's not so long ago that English and other companies would not take the hides because of barbed wire and general whacking at the animals with sticks.
Hope things have changed.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:27 pm 
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nardol wrote:
Alternative is rural ireland doesnt change and it dies because everyone buys their beef from Netherlands, France, Hungary etc etc.

Like the world I'm selling or not but the future is reliant in farmers making a living


Dutch, French and Hungarian beef? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:32 pm 
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Liathroidigloine wrote:
nardol wrote:
Alternative is rural ireland doesnt change and it dies because everyone buys their beef from Netherlands, France, Hungary etc etc.

Like the world I'm selling or not but the future is reliant in farmers making a living


Dutch, French and Hungarian beef? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:



I think France is the largest producer of beef in the EU - yes largest beef producer in the EU - hilarious i know.

The Dutch are masters of intensive production - largest agri producer in the EU in a country the size of Munster. I mention Hungary because it has exploded in recent years with its pork production so its not crazy to think they could do the same with beef if they target the market.

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistic ... /28947.pdf


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:36 pm 
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Slightly depressing I know this shit.....


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:36 pm 
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nardol wrote:
Liathroidigloine wrote:
nardol wrote:
Alternative is rural ireland doesnt change and it dies because everyone buys their beef from Netherlands, France, Hungary etc etc.

Like the world I'm selling or not but the future is reliant in farmers making a living


Dutch, French and Hungarian beef? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:



I think France is the largest producer of beef in the EU - yes largest beef producer in the EU - hilarious i know.

The Dutch are masters of intensive production - largest agri producer in the EU in a country the size of Munster. I mention Hungary because it has exploded in recent years with its pork production so its not crazy to think they could do the same with beef if they target the market.

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistic ... /28947.pdf

Poland is where Goodman has invested in farms.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:42 pm 
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Having been Poland is huge. I can see what the Germans were at


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:43 pm 
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nardol wrote:
Liathroidigloine wrote:
nardol wrote:
Alternative is rural ireland doesnt change and it dies because everyone buys their beef from Netherlands, France, Hungary etc etc.

Like the world I'm selling or not but the future is reliant in farmers making a living


Dutch, French and Hungarian beef? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:



I think France is the largest producer of beef in the EU - yes largest beef producer in the EU - hilarious i know.

The Dutch are masters of intensive production - largest agri producer in the EU in a country the size of Munster. I mention Hungary because it has exploded in recent years with its pork production so its not crazy to think they could do the same with beef if they target the market.

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistic ... /28947.pdf


We produce over 9% of the beef produced in Europe. Not only that but the bulk of our beef is high quality grass fed beef. We should maintain that by paying a price that is fair to the farmers.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:43 pm 
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EverReady wrote:
Having been Poland is huge. I can see what the Germans were at


I see your poland and raise you russia.

Germans eyes were bigger than their stomachs.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:47 pm 
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nardol wrote:
EverReady wrote:
Having been Poland is huge. I can see what the Germans were at


I see your poland and raise you russia.

Germans eyes were bigger than their stomachs.


Was stupid alright. When we invade as the EU we will go straight for the oilfields


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:52 pm 
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Liathroidigloine wrote:
nardol wrote:
Liathroidigloine wrote:
nardol wrote:
Alternative is rural ireland doesnt change and it dies because everyone buys their beef from Netherlands, France, Hungary etc etc.

Like the world I'm selling or not but the future is reliant in farmers making a living


Dutch, French and Hungarian beef? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:



I think France is the largest producer of beef in the EU - yes largest beef producer in the EU - hilarious i know.

The Dutch are masters of intensive production - largest agri producer in the EU in a country the size of Munster. I mention Hungary because it has exploded in recent years with its pork production so its not crazy to think they could do the same with beef if they target the market.

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistic ... /28947.pdf


We produce over 9% of the beef produced in Europe. Not only that but the bulk of our beef is high quality grass fed beef. We should maintain that by paying a price that is fair to the farmers.


1. Most of the beef that's exported is exported to the UK- a market that's about to be lost and replaced by chlorine hormone trump infested beef.
2. Most beef in europe is grass fed and quality control in the EU is the highest of anywhere globally.
3. The Dutch press were complaining recently that Irish beef is not as high quality as was being let on ( https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achter ... gle.com%2F ). Seems to indicate that some irish beef is not as premium as thought. Also dairy gold issues where taken to court in US because DG labeled their butter grass fed and it turned out that the butter doesnt qualify as being grass fed under US law.
3. Farmers need to make a living and while there is a place for premium beef there is not enough demand to sustain all of rural ireland. Most people drive volkwagens, or asian cars not ferrari or lambos. The bulk market will have to be the majority.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:04 pm 
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Liathroidigloine wrote:

I really don't like the world you are selling. You want us all to live in shoeboxes in cities and hollow out the countryside with massive factory farms. No thanks.


Absolutely agree, we need to maintain our countryside as it is for environmental diversity reasons also. Stupidly large farms are not where we need to go


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:04 pm 
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Using the words "Dutch", and "food quality" in the same sentence is a bit of a contradiction in terms, is it not ?

Both our dairy and beef herds are predominantly grass fed, as the Yank court found. The objector was looking for the court to rule that silage wasn't grass. They are also predominantly free range; with no use, afaik ,of beef feed lots, or automatic dairy lots in Ireland.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:05 pm 
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Liathroidigloine wrote:
nardol wrote:
Liathroidigloine wrote:
nardol wrote:
Alternative is rural ireland doesnt change and it dies because everyone buys their beef from Netherlands, France, Hungary etc etc.

Like the world I'm selling or not but the future is reliant in farmers making a living


Dutch, French and Hungarian beef? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:



I think France is the largest producer of beef in the EU - yes largest beef producer in the EU - hilarious i know.

The Dutch are masters of intensive production - largest agri producer in the EU in a country the size of Munster. I mention Hungary because it has exploded in recent years with its pork production so its not crazy to think they could do the same with beef if they target the market.

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistic ... /28947.pdf


We produce over 9% of the beef produced in Europe. Not only that but the bulk of our beef is high quality grass fed beef. We should maintain that by paying a price that is fair to the farmers.

So like a free market economy ? Btw Who,s this "we" business ?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:05 pm 
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sewa wrote:
Liathroidigloine wrote:

I really don't like the world you are selling. You want us all to live in shoeboxes in cities and hollow out the countryside with massive factory farms. No thanks.


Absolutely agree, we need to maintain our countryside as it is for environmental diversity reasons also. Stupidly large farms are not where we need to go

What's a stupidly large farm ?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:08 pm 
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nardol wrote:
Liathroidigloine wrote:
nardol wrote:
Liathroidigloine wrote:
nardol wrote:
Alternative is rural ireland doesnt change and it dies because everyone buys their beef from Netherlands, France, Hungary etc etc.

Like the world I'm selling or not but the future is reliant in farmers making a living


Dutch, French and Hungarian beef? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:



I think France is the largest producer of beef in the EU - yes largest beef producer in the EU - hilarious i know.

The Dutch are masters of intensive production - largest agri producer in the EU in a country the size of Munster. I mention Hungary because it has exploded in recent years with its pork production so its not crazy to think they could do the same with beef if they target the market.

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistic ... /28947.pdf


We produce over 9% of the beef produced in Europe. Not only that but the bulk of our beef is high quality grass fed beef. We should maintain that by paying a price that is fair to the farmers.


1. Most of the beef that's exported is exported to the UK- a market that's about to be lost and replaced by chlorine hormone trump infested beef.
2. Most beef in europe is grass fed and quality control in the EU is the highest of anywhere globally.
3. The Dutch press were complaining recently that Irish beef is not as high quality as was being let on ( https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achter ... gle.com%2F ). Seems to indicate that some irish beef is not as premium as thought. Also dairy gold issues where taken to court in US because DG labeled their butter grass fed and it turned out that the butter doesnt qualify as being grass fed under US law.
3. Farmers need to make a living and while there is a place for premium beef there is not enough demand to sustain all of rural ireland. Most people drive volkwagens, or asian cars not ferrari or lambos. The bulk market will have to be the majority.



That's Bimboesque in it's level of obvious bias.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:11 pm 
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Perhaps - but it got traction here in NL. Not good if you are looking to replace export lost to UK.

I don't really care as I generally don't buy 'premium' meat.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:17 pm 
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nardol wrote:
Perhaps - but it got traction here in NL. Not good if you are looking to replace export lost to UK.

I don't really care as I generally don't buy 'premium' meat.


So where do you buy your beef from?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:27 pm 
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Lidl or Albert Heijn - regular normal beef in the shops. I like seeing the Irish beef in the shops but I generally don't buy it.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:55 pm 
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sewa wrote:
Liathroidigloine wrote:

I really don't like the world you are selling. You want us all to live in shoeboxes in cities and hollow out the countryside with massive factory farms. No thanks.


Absolutely agree, we need to maintain our countryside as it is for environmental diversity reasons also. Stupidly large farms are not where we need to go



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Alright King Canute


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:12 pm 
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Most actual farmers I know think bigger farms are the only solution. They want the "hobby farmers" forced out.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:15 pm 
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how did poor small farmers that start the likes Glenisk, Cully and Sully etc ever make it in the big bad world ?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:17 pm 
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anonymous_joe wrote:
Most actual farmers I know think bigger farms are the only solution. They want the "hobby farmers" forced out.


They aren't hobby farmers. They are farmers who work two jobs. I know lots of them and they would prefer to farm full time.

If I had the choice between eating meat produced by a lad with 30 or 40 cattle or one with 500 cattle I know which I would choose, even if that meant spending a bit more. Likewise, I don't buy my meat in pre packed plastic portions in supermarkets but off a proper butcher. Yeah, I'm old fashioned.


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