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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:50 pm 
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SamShark wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Plastic Sarrie wrote:
Talking of scrum halves, Sarries have signed Nick Stirzaker on loan from the Rebels. Anyone?


When I watched the super rugby he was excellent-
Best 9 in oz easy. Pretty sure he's England qualified, no idea if he's been capped?


Very poachy name though.

I prefer poaching people with more English sounding names.

I was at school with a stirzaker who's dad taught us physics you racist plum 😉


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:51 pm 
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SamShark wrote:
He's a funny fuc*er Jones isn't he? I'm not really inclined to criticise at the moment because I'm neither a professional coach or in receipt of his win record, but there are some players he just doesn't rate.

I assume shit loads of invisible (to fans) stuff plays into it like heavy duty stats, personality and temperament, performances in training, relationships with other players etc.

And you don't ever really know if he's playing with a straight bat.

The back row thing really interests me. He's been more inclined to use (or hold as reserve) our locks to cover those positions. There's clearly an issue with how highly he rates certain players.

Fair play to him though - he can recall Mike Tindall if we keep winning for all I care.


I find it hard to criticise or disagree with Eddie- he's winning and upsetting people 👍🏼

Robson is a better passer than both youngs and care- but Eddies a man arch troll, shame he's too busy to post on here.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:52 pm 
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happyhooker wrote:
SamShark wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Plastic Sarrie wrote:
Talking of scrum halves, Sarries have signed Nick Stirzaker on loan from the Rebels. Anyone?


When I watched the super rugby he was excellent-
Best 9 in oz easy. Pretty sure he's England qualified, no idea if he's been capped?


Very poachy name though.

I prefer poaching people with more English sounding names.

I was at school with a stirzaker who's dad taught us physics you racist plum 😉


He sounds like he should be playing for the Miami Dolphins


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:52 pm 
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Petros wrote:
Joost wrote:
Has Maunder been injured? Chiefs’ website says he’s only played 22 minutes of rugby this season :?

Nick White has established himself as Chiefs no 1 SH, his replacement of Chudley made a big difference v Tigers


I think Townsend is the best 9 there, but they've got to many.

White
Chudley
Maunder
Townsend

Etc


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:02 pm 
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happyhooker wrote:
SamShark wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Plastic Sarrie wrote:
Talking of scrum halves, Sarries have signed Nick Stirzaker on loan from the Rebels. Anyone?


When I watched the super rugby he was excellent-
Best 9 in oz easy. Pretty sure he's England qualified, no idea if he's been capped?


Very poachy name though.

I prefer poaching people with more English sounding names.

I was at school with a stirzaker who's dad taught us physics you racist plum 😉


It’s actually an old Anglo-Saxon surname, with origins in Lancashire!


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:37 pm 
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Chuckles1188 wrote:
I don't agree that Eddie is getting more conservative with each game either. If anything he seems to be pushing the boat out more as time goes on.


I don't think he is moving in either direction. But England may look more conservative, but really they just haven't clicked in 2017 like they did in 2016. Their 2017 felt more like wins came from opposition mistakes, good fortune in bounces and last minute big moves that worked except against the first team that really took it to Jones England side in Ireland. I'm not saying that is the full story, but equally I can see how it felt that way.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:54 pm 
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I think you might be succumbing to the nostalgia filter a little bit in suggesting that England "clicked" in 2016 in a substantively different way than we did in 2017. When England won the Grand Slam everyone was in agreement that we were tallest midgets and it was a poor year, most people expected us to be whitewashed in Australia, and the November clean sweep was generally considered plausible but a long shot. England didn't have a single game in 2016 where the general reaction was that they had been a complete side throughout. Lots was ascribed to luck, and good teams winning ugly. The major difference between 2017 and 2016 is that we had Ireland away in 2017


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:16 pm 
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eldanielfire wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
I don't agree that Eddie is getting more conservative with each game either. If anything he seems to be pushing the boat out more as time goes on.


I don't think he is moving in either direction. But England may look more conservative, but really they just haven't clicked in 2017 like they did in 2016. Their 2017 felt more like wins came from opposition mistakes, good fortune in bounces and last minute big moves that worked except against the first team that really took it to Jones England side in Ireland. I'm not saying that is the full story, but equally I can see how it felt that way.



Scotland?? I felt we clicked that day.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:41 pm 
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Chuckles1188 wrote:
I think you might be succumbing to the nostalgia filter a little bit in suggesting that England "clicked" in 2016 in a substantively different way than we did in 2017. When England won the Grand Slam everyone was in agreement that we were tallest midgets and it was a poor year, most people expected us to be whitewashed in Australia, and the November clean sweep was generally considered plausible but a long shot. England didn't have a single game in 2016 where the general reaction was that they had been a complete side throughout. Lots was ascribed to luck, and good teams winning ugly. The major difference between 2017 and 2016 is that we had Ireland away in 2017


Yep. With the exception of the Scotland game I 100% agree.

Our series win in Australia was amazing, but more off the back of some heroic defensive displays than complete performances.

I enjoyed the Argentina tour for entertainment value and ‘finding a way to win’ but that wasn’t our first team and I thought we were no better than OK in the AIs.

The results ensure that we’re justifiably ranked 2nd in the World but our performances don’t really reflect that.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:19 pm 
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englishchief wrote:
Hartley, Cole, Hask and perhaps you could throw in the incumbent FB and SH, although it might just be that they're shiit rather than being past it.

This scrum half issue is really starting to get worrying. There is no reason not to pick Robson, unless he's some sort of pariah within the England camp (which I highly doubt, seems like a nice guy).

Some of Eddie's selections are just completely baffling. If it doesn't pay off in the 6N, I hope he swallows his pride and makes the right picks for the next squad training sessions.

Smith is the real day by the way. Obviously Ford/Faz are going to be the FH up to and including the 2019 RWC, but I genuinely think Smith could get ahead of them after that. It's rare you see kids that young playing so maturely and standing out with their talent. Reminds me of another FH who came through around 20 years ago now....


I think Ford is living on borrowed time. He is struggling and Smith/Lozowski could easily displace him.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:31 pm 
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terryfinch wrote:
englishchief wrote:
Hartley, Cole, Hask and perhaps you could throw in the incumbent FB and SH, although it might just be that they're shiit rather than being past it.

This scrum half issue is really starting to get worrying. There is no reason not to pick Robson, unless he's some sort of pariah within the England camp (which I highly doubt, seems like a nice guy).

Some of Eddie's selections are just completely baffling. If it doesn't pay off in the 6N, I hope he swallows his pride and makes the right picks for the next squad training sessions.

Smith is the real day by the way. Obviously Ford/Faz are going to be the FH up to and including the 2019 RWC, but I genuinely think Smith could get ahead of them after that. It's rare you see kids that young playing so maturely and standing out with their talent. Reminds me of another FH who came through around 20 years ago now....


I think Ford is living on borrowed time. He is struggling and Smith/Lozowski could easily displace him.


Can't see that happening any time soon. The Ford/Farrell axis has worked pretty well. Ford would be in more danger from Farrell being moved to 10 and someone like Teo getting the 12 shirt. I really don't see why you think he is struggling, he's streets ahead of the 2 you mention.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:32 pm 
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I think if fit t'eo plays 13.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:36 pm 
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DragsterDriver wrote:
I think if fit t'eo plays 13.


In Eddie's team - I agree, because he trusts the Ford/Farrell partnership. But he's really a 12, isn't he ?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:54 pm 
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Cipriani reportedly close to agreeing a move to France.

Quote:
It is closing in on crunch time for Wasps and Danny Cipriani.

The talismanic fly-half had stated that he would wait until January to make a decision on his future and his lack of inclusion in the recent two-day England training camp for the Six Nations will not have improved Wasps’ chances of retaining him.

There is interest from several Top 14 clubs in Cipriani’s services, including Lyon, Stade Français and Toulon, and they have the means to offer him a more lucrative deal than Wasps can, with the English side eager not to jeopardise the overall quality of their squad under the salary cap by overpaying at a single position.

Should he choose to make the move across the Channel, no one could blame him.

He has been one of the form fly-halves in the world game over the last three or four years, but the timing of his resurgence and maturing as a rugby player has unfortunately coincided with the rises of Owen Farrell and George Ford as England’s preferred playmakers.

Beyond the duo of Ford and Farrell, Eddie Jones has looked to blood fly-halves who have the ability to play multiple positions, such as Alex Lozowski, Henry Slade and Piers Francis, whilst the next genuine challenger for the 10 jersey seems to have been found in Marcus Smith.

As a result, no one would begrudge Cipriani heading to France and setting himself up for his future after rugby, but it does leave Wasps in an interesting spot.

Back in December, Wasps director of rugby Dai Young said that should Cipriani move to France, he would likely look to bring in a centre next season, with Jimmy Gopperth capable of moving back to 10.

The New Zealander will be 35 years of age at the beginning of the 2018/19 season and injuries can begin to occur more often later in a player’s career, potentially making Wasps’ fly-half depth next season look worryingly thin.

Connor Eastgate and Jacob Umaga are two further options in Wasps’ senior academy, but neither player has had much senior rugby experience outside of the A League and Anglo-Welsh Cup.

Wasps’ recruiting strategy over the next few months will be interesting to watch, with many of the notable fly-halves coming off contract, such as Dan Carter, Finn Russell, Dan Biggar and Simon Hickey, having already publicly agreed deals to move to other clubs, whilst many more have verbal agreements in place, with official confirmation to come shortly.


The idea of Wasps moving Gopperth back to 10 and then leaning on Jacob Umaga is not a happy one for me


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:15 pm 
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England U20s named - Ben Curry included

Quote:
England U20 EPS Squad 2017/18

Forwards:
Josh Basham (London Irish)
Ben Curry (Sale Sharks)
Beck Cutting (Worcester Warriors)
Ben Earl (Saracens)
Joe Heyes (Leicester Tigers)
Ted Hill (Worcester Warriors)
Dino Lamb (Harlequins)
Sam Lewis (Leicester Tigers)
Sam Moore (Sale Sharks)
Joe Morris (Worcester Warriors)
Gabriel Oghre (Wasps)
James Scott (Worcester Warriors)
Alex Seville (Gloucester)
Marcus Street (Exeter Chiefs)
Toby Trinder (Northampton Saints)
Henry Walker (Gloucester)
Tom Willis (Wasps)

Backs:
Rory Brand (London Irish)
Will Butler (Worcester Warriors)
Aaron Chapman (Bristol)
Ali Crossdale (Saracens)
Fraser Dingwall (Northampton Saints)
James Grayson (Northampton Saints)
Tom Hardwick (Leicester Tigers)
Gabriel Ibitoye (Harlequins)
Ben Loader (London Irish)
Jordan Olowofela (Leicester Tigers)
Tom Parton (London Irish)
Tom Seabrook (Gloucester)
Joe Snow (Exeter Chiefs)
Ben White (Leicester Tigers)
Matt Williams (London Irish)


Irish - 5
Worcester - 5
Tigers - 5
Saints - 3
Sarries - 2
Gloucester - 2
Chiefs - 2
Quins - 2
Sale - 2
Wasps - 2
Bristol - 1

As always, pick out the lads from your club and tell us why they're the next big thing in English rugby


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:18 pm 
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...Tom Willis' brother is pretty good


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:21 pm 
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Chuckles1188 wrote:
...Tom Willis' brother is pretty good


Tom is higher rated than Jack was at the same age, potential captaincy option (maybe not this time round, think he's in for 2 years).

Will Porter is unfortunate not to be involved, but he got injured in an A-league game, very handy scrum half.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:22 pm 
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Chuckles1188 wrote:
...Tom Willis' brother is pretty good


Indeed but just turned 21. JAck seems to manage a lot of turnovers in his, generally short, stints and hasn't looked lost in the AP or the ECC


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:26 pm 
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Ryan Mills has signed a new contract with Worcester. Great news!


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:27 pm 
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openclashXX wrote:
England U20s named - Ben Curry included

Quote:
England U20 EPS Squad 2017/18

Forwards:
Josh Basham (London Irish)
Ben Curry (Sale Sharks)
Beck Cutting (Worcester Warriors)
Ben Earl (Saracens)
Joe Heyes (Leicester Tigers)
Ted Hill (Worcester Warriors)
Dino Lamb (Harlequins)
Sam Lewis (Leicester Tigers)
Sam Moore (Sale Sharks)
Joe Morris (Worcester Warriors)
Gabriel Oghre (Wasps)
James Scott (Worcester Warriors)
Alex Seville (Gloucester)
Marcus Street (Exeter Chiefs)
Toby Trinder (Northampton Saints)
Henry Walker (Gloucester)
Tom Willis (Wasps)

Backs:
Rory Brand (London Irish)
Will Butler (Worcester Warriors)
Aaron Chapman (Bristol)
Ali Crossdale (Saracens)
Fraser Dingwall (Northampton Saints)
James Grayson (Northampton Saints)
Tom Hardwick (Leicester Tigers)
Gabriel Ibitoye (Harlequins)
Ben Loader (London Irish)
Jordan Olowofela (Leicester Tigers)
Tom Parton (London Irish)
Tom Seabrook (Gloucester)
Joe Snow (Exeter Chiefs)
Ben White (Leicester Tigers)
Matt Williams (London Irish)


Irish - 5
Worcester - 5
Tigers - 5
Saints - 3
Sarries - 2
Gloucester - 2
Chiefs - 2
Quins - 2
Sale - 2
Wasps - 2
Bristol - 1

As always, pick out the lads from your club and tell us why they're the next big thing in English rugby


No Neecastle or Bath?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:42 pm 
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openclashXX wrote:

Irish - 5
Worcester - 5
Tigers - 5
Saints - 3
Sarries - 2
Gloucester - 2
Chiefs - 2
Quins - 2
Sale - 2
Wasps - 2
Bristol - 1

As always, pick out the lads from your club and tell us why they're the next big thing in English rugby


Partially nicked from the youngsters thread yesterday:

Tom Parton (19) - Currently on loan playing full back for London Scottish in the Championship. Played Eng U20s last season in the 6N and JWC. Comfortable playing across the backline but primarily a 10 or 15. Quick with a decent skillset. Looks a bit stronger now than he did getting run over by a few big Kiwi lads in the JWC final last year.

Rory Brand (19) - Played U20s in the 6N last year, despite being suspiciously Scottish (moved down in his early teens). Quick 9 with a highlight reel step.

Ben Loader (19) - Next LI wing off the production line. Big and quick. Younger brother won a football world cup with England U17s last year so will be looking to do the household double.

Matt Williams (19) - Outside centre, no relation to Johnny. Decent all rounder

Josh Basham (18) - Lock/Back Row playing for Eng U18s last year. Nice hands and seems fairly highly rated at the club. Doubt he'll feature too much this year given how stacked the back row is


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:55 pm 
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Looking through that squad Earl, Curry, Moore and Willis represent a ton of firepower in the back row. Definite area of strength again.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:46 pm 
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SamShark wrote:
englishchief wrote:

Smith is the real day by the way. Obviously Ford/Faz are going to be the FH up to and including the 2019 RWC, but I genuinely think Smith could get ahead of them after that. It's rare you see kids that young playing so maturely and standing out with their talent. Reminds me of another FH who came through around 20 years ago now....


A word of warning is to look at Cipriani who also seemed to be destined for greatness.

Smith doesn't seem a D*ckhd. :)


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:49 pm 
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Scrumhead wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
I think you might be succumbing to the nostalgia filter a little bit in suggesting that England "clicked" in 2016 in a substantively different way than we did in 2017. When England won the Grand Slam everyone was in agreement that we were tallest midgets and it was a poor year, most people expected us to be whitewashed in Australia, and the November clean sweep was generally considered plausible but a long shot. England didn't have a single game in 2016 where the general reaction was that they had been a complete side throughout. Lots was ascribed to luck, and good teams winning ugly. The major difference between 2017 and 2016 is that we had Ireland away in 2017


Yep. With the exception of the Scotland game I 100% agree.

Our series win in Australia was amazing, but more off the back of some heroic defensive displays than complete performances.

I enjoyed the Argentina tour for entertainment value and ‘finding a way to win’ but that wasn’t our first team and I thought we were no better than OK in the AIs.

The results ensure that we’re justifiably ranked 2nd in the World but our performances don’t really reflect that.

An awful lot of this is down to players staying fit, particularly key ones.

It hasn't happened over the last 15 months and that may be a fairly large reason.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:21 pm 
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Alan Gaffney gave his first interview on Saints TV. Apparently the players are just lacking a bit of confidence, and West is a top coach still. Targeting 4th


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:02 pm 
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openclashXX wrote:
England U20s named -

As always, pick out the lads from your club and tell us why they're the next big thing in English rugby


Dino Lamb - can't see it
Gabriel Ibitoye - can't see it


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:03 pm 
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Saint wrote:
Alan Gaffney gave his first interview on Saints TV. Apparently the players are just lacking a bit of confidence, and West is a top coach still. Targeting 4th


Did you throw the device out the window?

I haven't seen Dingwall play recently- he was Scotland u18 so must be rated highly enough to poach. His dad was a good player /Globus.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:18 pm 
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Eddie reckons we've got great depth at 7 in his training squad :?

Quote:
“We’ve got plenty of options at seven. We have Haskell and Gary Graham, who has impressed at this camp.

“We can always push Chris Robshaw across if we need to. We’re not short of options.”


Not short of options - just short of good ones.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:18 pm 
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I feel like alot of the selections are to spite Scotland a bit after their comments.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:20 pm 
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Haskell and Gary Graham :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:25 pm 
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also, I've only just noticed - Kruis was omitted from the training squad altogether :shock: he's had a stinker of a time since the Lions tour but that's quite the fall from grace for someone who was virtually nailed on this time last year


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:28 pm 
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Quote:
Ben Vellacott (born 28 March 1995) is a rugby union player who plays at scrum-half for Gloucester Rugby. Born in England , schooled in England and played at England based clubs. However through his mother, and no interest from England, he is qualified to play for the country of Scotland and has represented them at age group level.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Vellacott :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:33 pm 
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openclashXX wrote:
also, I've only just noticed - Kruis was omitted from the training squad altogether :shock: he's had a stinker of a time since the Lions tour but that's quite the fall from grace for someone who was virtually nailed on this time last year


Kruis failed on the big stage and that's exactly what Eddie doesn't want.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:34 pm 
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fatcat wrote:
openclashXX wrote:
England U20s named -

As always, pick out the lads from your club and tell us why they're the next big thing in English rugby


Dino Lamb - can't see it
Gabriel Ibitoye - can't see it


Why not Ibitoye? I think he’ll be very good.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:34 pm 
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https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/ ... st-england

Billy and Maro return this weekend.

Please stay fit Billy :( . You and Manu fit and on form would be a big boost.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:45 pm 
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Wendigo7 wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/dec/31/return-billy-vunipola-maro-itoje-saracens-boost-england

Billy and Maro return this weekend.

Please stay fit Billy :( . You and Manu fit and on form would be a big boost.


Yep, with Hughes out, we really need a barnstorming BV.

I don't think Manu will be anywhere near ready for some while yet - but it'd be great if he stayed fit long enough to re-find his abilities.

Front and Back Rows still a concern though. 4 players in there that aren't getting any better - and Cole gets worse with each outing.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:51 pm 
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Although I'm not overly happy about it, the first team for Italy is shaping like:

1. Mako Vunipola
2. Dylan Hartley
3. Dan Cole
4. Courtney Lawes
5. Joe Launchbury
6. Maro Itoje
7. Chris Robshaw
8. Billy Vunipola
9. Danny Care
10. George Ford
11. Jonny May
12. Owen Farrell
13. Henry Slade
14. Anthony Watson
15. Mike Brown

16. Jamie George
17. Joe Marler
18. Kyle Sinckler
19. Charlie Ewels
20. Sam Simmonds/Nathan Hughes
21. Ben Youngs
22. Jonathan Joseph
23. Semesa Rokodoguni

Barring Injuries of course. Just want Billy fit..


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:00 am 
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Wendigo7 wrote:
Although I'm not overly happy about it, the first team for Italy is shaping like:

1. Mako Vunipola
2. Dylan Hartley
3. Dan Cole
4. Courtney Lawes
5. Joe Launchbury
6. Maro Itoje
7. Chris Robshaw
8. Billy Vunipola
9. Danny Care
10. George Ford
11. Jonny May
12. Owen Farrell
13. Henry Slade
14. Anthony Watson
15. Mike Brown

16. Jamie George
17. Joe Marler
18. Kyle Sinckler
19. Charlie Ewels
20. Sam Simmonds/Nathan Hughes
21. Ben Youngs
22. Jonathan Joseph
23. Semesa Rokodoguni

Barring Injuries of course. Just want Billy fit..


Nathan Hughes won't be involved.

I reckon we'll see the Hask back @ 7


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:31 am 
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I think we'll see the same backrow as two years ago. I reckon it will go pretty well, too


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:17 am 
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Scrumhead wrote:
fatcat wrote:
openclashXX wrote:
England U20s named -

As always, pick out the lads from your club and tell us why they're the next big thing in English rugby


Dino Lamb - can't see it
Gabriel Ibitoye - can't see it


Why not Ibitoye? I think he’ll be very good.


He could well become a very good club player but top class wingers usually show their class while still very young. I realise he still is very young but I look at him compared to say Charlie Walker and I think there's a big gulf, and I just don't see him getting many opportunities over the next couple of years. Plus his defence is very suspect.


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