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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:39 am 
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Angry_Bull wrote:
Doesn't seem to have really been mentioned anywhere on the Forum, apologies if it has.

What are the thoughts on Saints new signing Taqele Naiyaravoro?

I don't know a huge amount about him, other than watching some clips. Seems like a direct replacement for North (on less money I assume). Reminds me a little of Alesana Tuilagi with some of those 'sidesteps'. Saints desperately need some depth a wing and fullback, so happy with this signing.

It will be interesting to see how he goes.


If they can get him in the game, very useful. If they don't sort out their pack, then unless he plays 8, a bit superfluous.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:46 am 
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Raggs wrote:
Angry_Bull wrote:
Doesn't seem to have really been mentioned anywhere on the Forum, apologies if it has.

What are the thoughts on Saints new signing Taqele Naiyaravoro?

I don't know a huge amount about him, other than watching some clips. Seems like a direct replacement for North (on less money I assume). Reminds me a little of Alesana Tuilagi with some of those 'sidesteps'. Saints desperately need some depth a wing and fullback, so happy with this signing.

It will be interesting to see how he goes.


If they can get him in the game, very useful. If they don't sort out their pack, then unless he plays 8, a bit superfluous.


Agreed.

We need a couple of big units in the pack in my opinion. A prop, a backrow and eight.

Would be pretty happy with Haskell even if he isn't available 1005 of the time. Exactly the sort of player our pack needs.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:49 am 
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Angry_Bull wrote:
Doesn't seem to have really been mentioned anywhere on the Forum, apologies if it has.

What are the thoughts on Saints new signing Taqele Naiyaravoro?

I don't know a huge amount about him, other than watching some clips. Seems like a direct replacement for North (on less money I assume). Reminds me a little of Alesana Tuilagi with some of those 'sidesteps'. Saints desperately need some depth a wing and fullback, so happy with this signing.

It will be interesting to see how he goes.

Edit: Just read he's 124KG and that's after dropping 12KG prior to the start of Super rugby this year :shock: :shock:




He's massive - built like Billy Vunipola. Does seem a waste to have him on the wing to be honest.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:19 pm 
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Chips wrote:
I like my 6 to be a brute - carrying and tackling. .


And your outside centre to be of Nigerian origin?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:31 pm 
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ovalball wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
No offence but trying to compare impact in a match against a self destructing lower table league side with what people do in internationals is ridiculous.


Indeed - but how else do you suggest that potential England players are measured, before they play internationals. They can only prove their mettle in club games - and be compared with others playing in the same, and similar, games.


Yes, that's how. Not by trying to compare the numbers from a somewhat arbitrary rating system in two vastly different situations.

Playing international rugby is a totally different physical and mental challenge and stats nerds including me should bear that in mind.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:34 pm 
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JM2K6 wrote:
ovalball wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
No offence but trying to compare impact in a match against a self destructing lower table league side with what people do in internationals is ridiculous.


Indeed - but how else do you suggest that potential England players are measured, before they play internationals. They can only prove their mettle in club games - and be compared with others playing in the same, and similar, games.


Yes, that's how. Not by trying to compare the numbers from a somewhat arbitrary rating system in two vastly different situations.

Playing international rugby is a totally different physical and mental challenge and stats nerds including me should bear that in mind.


I'd quoted the international stats before doing the Willis numbers, presuming that international numbers should be pretty high. I also compare him to a very busy AP performance from another hard working Wasps player. Regardless of how poor Quins were, that doesn't change that Willis was still involved in a huge number of rucks, as well as carries and tackles.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:54 pm 
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That's a bad presumption to make, given the intensity and quality of opposition means everything you do is harder and more taxing.

By all means praise his excellent performances, I am saying you can't do a direct comparison. Playing against Michael Hooper is significantly harder than against a half fit Luke Wallace, for example. Quins had a handful of international quality players.

I totally agree that his work rate was impressive, but you cannot directly compare it like that. Stats work requires context.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:00 pm 
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Scrumhead wrote:
Willis has stood out in all of the games he’s played in TBH. Underhill stands out in a purely defensive capacity whereas as Willis seems a lot more rounded.

My only concern would be whether he’d be effective in England’s current system. Right now, we don’t even try to compete at the breakdown, so unless we change our approach, we’d potentially be limiting his impact by negating one of his strongest skills.


But maybe that is our tactic because Eddie doesn't believe we have the players to make competing at the breakdown worthwhile. It's a circular argument.

Competing at the breakdown takes up a lot of energy. On Saturday we committed fewer men than Wales in both attack and defence at the breakdown, which may have had an effect on the pack's energy levels.

When you look at the penalty count (2 pens given to us, 10 to Wales), you can only imagine that if those figures were reversed we would have cruised to an easy victory. Not often you can play another Tier 1 team, conceded 5 times as many penalties and still win by a reasonable margin.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:01 pm 
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JM2K6 wrote:
That's a bad presumption to make, given the intensity and quality of opposition means everything you do is harder and more taxing.

By all means praise his excellent performances, I am saying you can't do a direct comparison. Playing against Michael Hooper is significantly harder than against a half fit Luke Wallace, for example. Quins had a handful of international quality players.

I totally agree that his work rate was impressive, but you cannot directly compare it like that. Stats work requires context.


Perhaps it is a bad assumption, but I figured the increased intensity would likely lead to more carries and tackles in a game.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:10 pm 
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JM2K6 wrote:
That's a bad presumption to make, given the intensity and quality of opposition means everything you do is harder and more taxing.

By all means praise his excellent performances, I am saying you can't do a direct comparison. Playing against Michael Hooper is significantly harder than against a half fit Luke Wallace, for example. Quins had a handful of international quality players.

I totally agree that his work rate was impressive, but you cannot directly compare it like that. Stats work requires context.



He's a 20-year old playing Premiership League rugby matches as a starter in the backrow for one of the top teams.

Before you even start collecting stats, he is already impressing.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:17 pm 
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Chips wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
That's a bad presumption to make, given the intensity and quality of opposition means everything you do is harder and more taxing.

By all means praise his excellent performances, I am saying you can't do a direct comparison. Playing against Michael Hooper is significantly harder than against a half fit Luke Wallace, for example. Quins had a handful of international quality players.

I totally agree that his work rate was impressive, but you cannot directly compare it like that. Stats work requires context.



He's a 20-year old playing Premiership League rugby matches as a starter in the backrow for one of the top teams.

Before you even start collecting stats, he is already impressing.


JM isn't arguing that, he's saying comparing it to international isn't fair. I already brought those figures up before checking Willis, not because I believe you can compare the intensity, but because I felt the international game is likely to have a higher number of involvements than a normal club game (even if a club game is generally easier physically). Clearly clearing out Wallace is different to clearing Pocock.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:21 pm 
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Raggs wrote:
Chips wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
That's a bad presumption to make, given the intensity and quality of opposition means everything you do is harder and more taxing.

By all means praise his excellent performances, I am saying you can't do a direct comparison. Playing against Michael Hooper is significantly harder than against a half fit Luke Wallace, for example. Quins had a handful of international quality players.

I totally agree that his work rate was impressive, but you cannot directly compare it like that. Stats work requires context.



He's a 20-year old playing Premiership League rugby matches as a starter in the backrow for one of the top teams.

Before you even start collecting stats, he is already impressing.


JM isn't arguing that, he's saying comparing it to international isn't fair. I already brought those figures up before checking Willis, not because I believe you can compare the intensity, but because I felt the international game is likely to have a higher number of involvements than a normal club game (even if a club game is generally easier physically). Clearly clearing out Wallace is different to clearing Pocock.




I'm not sure why you can't compare performances in the AP to test matches anyway to be honest. There are players in the England team that are terrible at club level week-in and week-out and yet they still get picked. Conversely, players that are match-winners for their clubs don't get picked.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:56 pm 
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David Denton has signed for Leicester for next year. Yet another mediocre import :(


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:59 pm 
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Keith wrote:
David Denton has signed for Leicester for next year. Yet another mediocre import :(


He was quite good at one point. Maybe they see the potential?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:06 pm 
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He's been going very well the past few months. Despite the misgivings of many Tigers fans I think he'll be a decent signing for them if he stays fit.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:07 pm 
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Leicester have seriously lost their way haven't they. Maybe it's a Midlands thing, there seems to be a shift as to where the best talent is emerging from and the old fertile Leicester academy is falling behind. Similar with Northampton.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:08 pm 
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eldanielfire wrote:
Keith wrote:
David Denton has signed for Leicester for next year. Yet another mediocre import :(


He was quite good at one point. Maybe they see the potential?

Leicester need a big, tough, grizzly, ENGLISH pack of forwards to bring the glory years back. The Zim/Jock doesn't fit that mould IMHO


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:09 pm 
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Raggs wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
That's a bad presumption to make, given the intensity and quality of opposition means everything you do is harder and more taxing.

By all means praise his excellent performances, I am saying you can't do a direct comparison. Playing against Michael Hooper is significantly harder than against a half fit Luke Wallace, for example. Quins had a handful of international quality players.

I totally agree that his work rate was impressive, but you cannot directly compare it like that. Stats work requires context.


Perhaps it is a bad assumption, but I figured the increased intensity would likely lead to more carries and tackles in a game.

It's literally harder work at international level. Physically it takes a lot more out of you.

In the same way as it's easier to make metres at club level than at international level, particularly against weaker club teams. No-one talks about Morris making 100+ metres as being comparable to Brown's yardage against Wales.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:11 pm 
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JM2K6 wrote:
Raggs wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
That's a bad presumption to make, given the intensity and quality of opposition means everything you do is harder and more taxing.

By all means praise his excellent performances, I am saying you can't do a direct comparison. Playing against Michael Hooper is significantly harder than against a half fit Luke Wallace, for example. Quins had a handful of international quality players.

I totally agree that his work rate was impressive, but you cannot directly compare it like that. Stats work requires context.


Perhaps it is a bad assumption, but I figured the increased intensity would likely lead to more carries and tackles in a game.

It's literally harder work at international level. Physically it takes a lot more out of you.

In the same way as it's easier to make metres at club level than at international level, particularly against weaker club teams. No-one talks about Morris making 100+ metres as being comparable to Brown's yardage against Wales.




Brown's MoM award was bizarre, he wasn't even the best fullback on the pitch.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:16 pm 
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Chips wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
Raggs wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
That's a bad presumption to make, given the intensity and quality of opposition means everything you do is harder and more taxing.

By all means praise his excellent performances, I am saying you can't do a direct comparison. Playing against Michael Hooper is significantly harder than against a half fit Luke Wallace, for example. Quins had a handful of international quality players.

I totally agree that his work rate was impressive, but you cannot directly compare it like that. Stats work requires context.


Perhaps it is a bad assumption, but I figured the increased intensity would likely lead to more carries and tackles in a game.

It's literally harder work at international level. Physically it takes a lot more out of you.

In the same way as it's easier to make metres at club level than at international level, particularly against weaker club teams. No-one talks about Morris making 100+ metres as being comparable to Brown's yardage against Wales.




Brown's MoM award was bizarre, he wasn't even the best fullback on the pitch.


I think you must have been watching a different match.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:27 pm 
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Chips wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
Raggs wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
That's a bad presumption to make, given the intensity and quality of opposition means everything you do is harder and more taxing.

By all means praise his excellent performances, I am saying you can't do a direct comparison. Playing against Michael Hooper is significantly harder than against a half fit Luke Wallace, for example. Quins had a handful of international quality players.

I totally agree that his work rate was impressive, but you cannot directly compare it like that. Stats work requires context.


Perhaps it is a bad assumption, but I figured the increased intensity would likely lead to more carries and tackles in a game.

It's literally harder work at international level. Physically it takes a lot more out of you.

In the same way as it's easier to make metres at club level than at international level, particularly against weaker club teams. No-one talks about Morris making 100+ metres as being comparable to Brown's yardage against Wales.




Brown's MoM award was bizarre, he wasn't even the best fullback on the pitch.

Really? What position was the best one playing then?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:29 pm 
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Tigers have appointed Mark Bakewell as forwards coach.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:42 pm 
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SaintK wrote:
Chips wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
Raggs wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
That's a bad presumption to make, given the intensity and quality of opposition means everything you do is harder and more taxing.

By all means praise his excellent performances, I am saying you can't do a direct comparison. Playing against Michael Hooper is significantly harder than against a half fit Luke Wallace, for example. Quins had a handful of international quality players.

I totally agree that his work rate was impressive, but you cannot directly compare it like that. Stats work requires context.


Perhaps it is a bad assumption, but I figured the increased intensity would likely lead to more carries and tackles in a game.

It's literally harder work at international level. Physically it takes a lot more out of you.

In the same way as it's easier to make metres at club level than at international level, particularly against weaker club teams. No-one talks about Morris making 100+ metres as being comparable to Brown's yardage against Wales.




Brown's MoM award was bizarre, he wasn't even the best fullback on the pitch.

Really? What position was the best one playing then?


fly-half iirc


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:29 pm 
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polyallstar wrote:
SaintK wrote:
Chips wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:


In the same way as it's easier to make metres at club level than at international level, particularly against weaker club teams. No-one talks about Morris making 100+ metres as being comparable to Brown's yardage against Wales.




Brown's MoM award was bizarre, he wasn't even the best fullback on the pitch.

Really? What position was the best one playing then?


fly-half iirc



Eventually yes. Anscombe is clearly a better rugby player than one-trick Brown.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:30 pm 
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What's your opinion on Ford?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:34 pm 
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The Man Without Fear wrote:
What's your opinion on Ford?



I'm not as big a fan as Jones is but he's definitely worth his place. If there was a shit hot English 12 knocking about then I'd choose Farrell as first choice 10 every time but as we don't then Farrell is by a distance the best English 12 as well.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:36 pm 
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Chips wrote:
The Man Without Fear wrote:
What's your opinion on Ford?



I'm not as big a fan as Jones is but he's definitely worth his place. If there was a shit hot English 12 knocking about then I'd choose Farrell as first choice 10 every time but as we don't then Farrell is by a distance the best English 12 as well.


How is Farrell a better 10 then Ford?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:39 pm 
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eldanielfire wrote:
Chips wrote:
The Man Without Fear wrote:
What's your opinion on Ford?



I'm not as big a fan as Jones is but he's definitely worth his place. If there was a shit hot English 12 knocking about then I'd choose Farrell as first choice 10 every time but as we don't then Farrell is by a distance the best English 12 as well.


How is Farrell a better 10 then Ford?



Tackling, temperament, kicking game, decision making, leadership, organisation.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:46 pm 
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:lol: Should we be playing Alex NotVeryGoode at full back?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:51 pm 
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Chips wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
Chips wrote:
The Man Without Fear wrote:
What's your opinion on Ford?



I'm not as big a fan as Jones is but he's definitely worth his place. If there was a shit hot English 12 knocking about then I'd choose Farrell as first choice 10 every time but as we don't then Farrell is by a distance the best English 12 as well.


How is Farrell a better 10 then Ford?



Tackling, temperament, kicking game, decision making, leadership, organisation.


What about creativity, passing, spotting a gap, bringing other players into the game, creating tries or skill? You know, the actual attributes and jobs of a Fly Half? Most of what you said there was generic criteria that mostly overlaps, temperment, organisation and leadership? How is the last two on a rugby pitch any different?

As for the rest:

Tackling: Farrell's high rates of missed tackle's is well documented now. He missed 7 on Saturday. He goes in to high and gets knocked back regularly. Ford almost never misses a tackle
Temperament: Farrell is elite but there is nothing wrong with Ford's temperament. We can also point to a number of big kicks Farrell has not hit when the pressure is on.
Kicking Game: Ford's kicking out of hand is better then Farrell's. Farrell is obviously the best place kicker.
Decision making: Farrell isn't half as good as Ford in deciding when to attack or exploiting a gap. Farrell isn't good at creating tries, why else has two of the most successful coaches in the norther hemisphere, Gatland and Jones both resigned to pushing Farrell out to 12, not 10? The fact is at test level Farrell at 10 will ensure ot enough points will be scored to win big games.

By any measure of the actual role, Ford is the vastly superior Fly Half bar place kicking.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:52 pm 
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Keith wrote:
:lol: Should we be playing Alex NotVeryGoode at full back?



I don't think England can win the RWC with a fullback like Mike Brown. He's not going to be a better player in 18 months either. Watson is the obvious candidate although Nowell and Daly would offer more in my opinion.

Given Jones's outburst regards the selection of Brown to R5L he's clearly backed himself into a corner and won't drop him regardless. And that's why England will ultimately fail unfortunately. Jones is a great coach but we are seeing his weakness starting to manifest itself.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:54 pm 
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Keith wrote:
:lol: Should we be playing Alex NotVeryGoode at full back?


:lol:

Concerning Brown I guess defense, kicking, positioning and being among the very best at taking the highball in the world don't count as key skills for a 15?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:56 pm 
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eldanielfire wrote:
Chips wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
Chips wrote:
The Man Without Fear wrote:
What's your opinion on Ford?



I'm not as big a fan as Jones is but he's definitely worth his place. If there was a shit hot English 12 knocking about then I'd choose Farrell as first choice 10 every time but as we don't then Farrell is by a distance the best English 12 as well.


How is Farrell a better 10 then Ford?



Tackling, temperament, kicking game, decision making, leadership, organisation.


What about creativity, passing, spotting a gap, bringing other players into the game, creating tries or skill? You know, the actual attributes and jobs of a Fly Half? Most of what you said there was generic criteria that mostly overlaps, temperment, organisation and leadership? How is the last two on a rugby pitch any different?

As for the rest:

Tackling: Farrell's high rates of missed tackle's is well documented now. He missed 7 on Saturday. He goes in to high and gets knocked back regularly. Ford almost never misses a tackle
Temperament: Farrell is elite but there is nothing wrong with Ford's temperament. We can also point to a number of big kicks Farrell has not hit when the pressure is on.
Kicking Game: Ford's kicking out of hand is better then Farrell's. Farrell is obviously the best place kicker.
Decision making: Farrell isn't half as good as Ford in deciding when to attack or exploiting a gap. Farrell isn't good at creating tries, why else has two of the most successful coaches in the norther hemisphere, Gatland and Jones both resigned to pushing Farrell out to 12, not 10? The fact is at test level Farrell at 10 will ensure ot enough points will be scored to win big games.

By any measure of the actual role, Ford is the vastly superior Fly Half bar place kicking.



I can imagine Farrell polishing his European and Aviva winners medals under his framed Lions shirts thinking about your assessment.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:58 pm 
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eldanielfire wrote:
Keith wrote:
:lol: Should we be playing Alex NotVeryGoode at full back?


:lol:

Concerning Brown I guess defense, kicking, positioning and being among the very best at taking the highball in the world don't count as key skills for a 15?


Brown dropped two against Wales and got turned over with the first one he trudged back. It really wasn't a stellar display, pretty average fair for a wet day at fullback.


Last edited by Chips on Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:59 pm 
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Chips wrote:
Keith wrote:
:lol: Should we be playing Alex NotVeryGoode at full back?



I don't think England can win the RWC with a fullback like Mike Brown. He's not going to be a better player in 18 months either. Watson is the obvious candidate although Nowell and Daly would offer more in my opinion.


So you'll replace Brown's experience and great test record with Watson who is inferior defensively? Or Nowell who was recently badly exposed at Full Back or Daly who has never played there? You honestly think throwing in test amateurs at 15 is the way to win the world cup with only 1 year to go?

Quote:

Given Jones's outburst regards the selection of Brown to R5L he's clearly backed himself into a corner and won't drop him regardless. And that's why England will ultimately fail unfortunately. Jones is a great coach but we are seeing his weakness starting to manifest itself.


Eddie Jones has been willing to drop various players and has joined he world record with Brown at 15. As he pointed out there are a lot of clueless people who seem to think they know better then Jones and his brilliant record.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:01 pm 
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Chips wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
Keith wrote:
:lol: Should we be playing Alex NotVeryGoode at full back?


:lol:

Concerning Brown I guess defense, kicking, positioning and being among the very best at taking the highball in the world don't count as key skills for a 15?


Brown dropped two against Wales and got turned over with the first one he trudged back. He really want a stellar display, pretty average fair for a wet day at fullback.


And how many wet balls did he catch? Regardless imagine how much worse it would be in the rain with an inferior fullback in the air. There isn't a rugby player in the world who hasn't spilled a ball, thrown a bad pass or missed a tackle. Using outliers as evidence doesn't support your point


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:02 pm 
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eldanielfire wrote:
Chips wrote:
Keith wrote:
:lol: Should we be playing Alex NotVeryGoode at full back?



I don't think England can win the RWC with a fullback like Mike Brown. He's not going to be a better player in 18 months either. Watson is the obvious candidate although Nowell and Daly would offer more in my opinion.


So you'll replace Brown's experience and great test record with Watson who is inferior defensively? Or Nowell who was recently badly exposed at Full Back or Daly who has never played there? You honestly think throwing in test amateurs at 15 is the way to win the world cup with only 1 year to go?

Quote:

Given Jones's outburst regards the selection of Brown to R5L he's clearly backed himself into a corner and won't drop him regardless. And that's why England will ultimately fail unfortunately. Jones is a great coach but we are seeing his weakness starting to manifest itself.


Eddie Jones has been willing to drop various players and has joined he world record with Brown at 15. As he pointed out there are a lot of clueless people who seem to think they know better then Jones and his brilliant record.




England won't win a RWC with Brown at fullback. Period. You can bookmark it if you wish. He simply doesn't do enough. His defence isn't world class either.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:04 pm 
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Chips wrote:


I can imagine Farrell polishing his European and Aviva winners medals under his framed Lions shirts thinking about your assessment.



Oh I didn't know the Aviva or Europe counts as test Rugby now? That makes Alex Goode England's best Fullback then doesn't it?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:04 pm 
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Chips wrote:
Keith wrote:
:lol: Should we be playing Alex NotVeryGoode at full back?



I don't think England can win the RWC with a fullback like Mike Brown. He's not going to be a better player in 18 months either. Watson is the obvious candidate although Nowell and Daly would offer more in my opinion.

Given Jones's outburst regards the selection of Brown to R5L he's clearly backed himself into a corner and won't drop him regardless. And that's why England will ultimately fail unfortunately. Jones is a great coach but we are seeing his weakness starting to manifest itself.


I think we'd all like to see another 15 get some development time in an England shirt. But, atm, Brown is still the best FB we have. I'd be more concerned at keeping Cole and Hartley, well past their prime, and our unbalanced Backrow. Our issue at FB is more about what we do if Brown is injured.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:06 pm 
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Chips wrote:

England won't win a RWC with Brown at fullback. Period. You can bookmark it if you wish. He simply doesn't do enough. His defence isn't world class either.


I guess by that measure England didn't win the 2015 world cup and couldn't exit the group stages because Farrell was played at 10.

The main factor in England not winning a world cup would probably be the All Blacks. I don't see how failing to win it would be any indication on Mike Brown.


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