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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:38 am 
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He's reached the "picking names from a hat" stage. Laying the groundwork for his post-flop excuses :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:40 am 
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Exactly. That’s partly why I think he’s being looked at as a 7.

Dombrandt apparently impressed in training so surely would have been in the box seat to cover 8?

Either way, I’m a fan of Kvesic so not overly disappointed.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:04 am 
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Eddie has this strange Boris-like quality where I can't quite figure out if he's just making things up as he goes along or whether there's a grand plan that only he knows about

the back row thing is a classic example - for years under him we've been getting by with non-specialist 7s like Haskell, Robshaw and Wood playing openside, and for a brief period he was mentioning picking people like Itoje and Mike Williams there x(

now we're less than two months out from a World Cup and he's seemingly decided that England's best back row features not one, but two specialist opensides at 6 and 7 :?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:08 am 
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openclashXX wrote:
Eddie has this strange Boris-like quality where I can't quite figure out if he's just making things up as he goes along or whether there's a grand plan that only he knows about

the back row thing is a classic example - for years under him we've been getting by with non-specialist 7s like Haskell, Robshaw and Wood playing openside, and for a brief period he was mentioning picking people like Itoje and Mike Williams there x(

now we're less than two months out from a World Cup and he's seemingly decided that England's best back row features not one, but two specialist opensides at 6 and 7 :?


I reckon he just picks a squad to try and win the next game(s) and that's it. There is no masterplan or deep strategy it is just pick the team he thinks can do the job at that point.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:18 am 
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blindcider wrote:
openclashXX wrote:
Eddie has this strange Boris-like quality where I can't quite figure out if he's just making things up as he goes along or whether there's a grand plan that only he knows about

the back row thing is a classic example - for years under him we've been getting by with non-specialist 7s like Haskell, Robshaw and Wood playing openside, and for a brief period he was mentioning picking people like Itoje and Mike Williams there x(

now we're less than two months out from a World Cup and he's seemingly decided that England's best back row features not one, but two specialist opensides at 6 and 7 :?


I reckon he just picks a squad to try and win the next game(s) and that's it. There is no masterplan or deep strategy it is just pick the team he thinks can do the job at that point.


not so sure on this - the public image he portrays of himself and his coaching team is that they're both workaholics and meticulous planners: that they consider everything from the match officials, pitch conditions, rest periods between games etc when picking squads and teams


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:43 am 
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openclashXX wrote:
blindcider wrote:
openclashXX wrote:
Eddie has this strange Boris-like quality where I can't quite figure out if he's just making things up as he goes along or whether there's a grand plan that only he knows about

the back row thing is a classic example - for years under him we've been getting by with non-specialist 7s like Haskell, Robshaw and Wood playing openside, and for a brief period he was mentioning picking people like Itoje and Mike Williams there x(

now we're less than two months out from a World Cup and he's seemingly decided that England's best back row features not one, but two specialist opensides at 6 and 7 :?


I reckon he just picks a squad to try and win the next game(s) and that's it. There is no masterplan or deep strategy it is just pick the team he thinks can do the job at that point.


not so sure on this - the public image he portrays of himself and his coaching team is that they're both workaholics and meticulous planners: that they consider everything from the match officials, pitch conditions, rest periods between games etc when picking squads and teams


I'm not sure if this constitutes a strategy or if it is just delusional:


Quote:
“When you come into a job like England, you come into a team that has had disappointment. So you need some experience. The first thing I tried to do was to pick an experienced team. Then you see how much legs that team has.

“One of the vital things about selection is knowing when a player is just about to fall off; maybe because of a physical or an attitudinal or an emotional reason, they can’t just give you what they did give you. After two years, I thought we would carry quite an experienced team to the World Cup. Then I found out I needed to make changes so I had to start again. I wouldn’t have done it any differently.”

Was he concerned about relative lack of experience? “There is nothing I can do about it,” he said. “All I can do is select the best 31 players — which I have done. I’m convinced it’s our best 31. I could have picked more experienced players but I just don’t feel they’ll give us what the younger guys will give us.”




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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:45 am 
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I presume he's not talking about willie heinz there


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:55 am 
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Scrumhead wrote:
Exactly. That’s partly why I think he’s being looked at as a 7.

Dombrandt apparently impressed in training so surely would have been in the box seat to cover 8?

Either way, I’m a fan of Kvesic so not overly disappointed.


I wonder if there were concerns about Dombrandt’s ability to last an international match, given his ‘university rig’. He was very impressive in the BaaBaas match, so surely deserves another look after the RWC.

Tbf to Eddie, Robshaw/Haskell/Billy was a very effective backrow until injuries hit and he’s now happened upon a very good, balanced backrow in Wilson/Curry/Billy - it’s been keeping his first choice backrow fit that’s been the issue!

It’s how things have gone at hooker, scrum half and fullback that would make question his approach rather than backrow.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:07 am 
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Scrumhead wrote:
Exactly. That’s partly why I think he’s being looked at as a 7.

Dombrandt apparently impressed in training so surely would have been in the box seat to cover 8?

Either way, I’m a fan of Kvesic so not overly disappointed.


I wonder if there were concerns about Dombrandt’s ability to last an international match, given his ‘university rig’. He was very impressive in the BaaBaas match, so surely deserves another look after the RWC.

Tbf to Eddie, Robshaw/Haskell/Billy was a very effective backrow until injuries hit and he’s now happened upon a very good, balanced backrow in Wilson/Curry/Billy - it’s been keeping his first choice backrow fit that’s been the issue!

It’s how things have gone at hooker, scrum half and fullback that would make question his approach rather than backrow.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:33 am 
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Wendigo7 wrote:
A5D5E5 wrote:
Well I opened the thread pretty pleased with the squad. A couple of choices I'd have made differently, but nothing massive.

After reading the thread I am now ready to slit my wrists and have given up all hope. When did we all become so negative about everything?

Totally agree I'm pretty happy with it and we're as good a chance as any of winning it. :lol:

Little did I know....


Yes, but you have a history of getting massively carried away.

A5D5E5 - 2 years of inconsistent results and performances have left many of us more than a little jaded with Eddie and this squad has done nothing to suggest we're going to become any more consistent. The memory of throwing a massive lead against Scotland and scrabbling for a draw at home is a haunting one.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:01 pm 
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England RWC squads post 03

2007
Chuter
Mears
Regan
Freshwater
Sheridan
Stevens
Vickery
Borthwick (c)
Shaw
Kay
Corry
Moody
Rees
Worsley
Dallaglio
Easter
Gommersall
Perry
Richards
Barkley
Wilkinson
Catt
Farrell
Hipkiss
Noon
Tait
Cueto
Lewsey
Sackey
Abendanon
Robinson


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:04 pm 
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2011 Squad

Hartley
Mears
Thompson
Cole
Corbiseiro
Wilson
Stevens
Deacon
Lawes
Palmer
Shaw
Croft
Haskell
Moody
Wood
Easter
Waldrom
Simpson
Wigglesworth
Youngs
Flood
Wilkinson
Hape
Tindall
Tuilagi
Armitage
Ashton
Banahan
Cueto
Foden


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:07 pm 
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2015 Squad

George
Webber
Youngs
Brookes
Cole
Marler
Vunipola
Wilson
Kruis
Launchbury
Lawes
Parling
Easter for Vunipola
Haskell
Morgan
Robshaw
Wood
Care
Wigglesworth
Youngs
Farrell
Ford
Barrett
Burgess
Joseph
Slade
May
Nowell
Watson
Brown
Goode


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:44 pm 
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Some interesting analysis on twitterdom on the number of players in the squad with 30+ caps:

2019 - 17

2015 - 11

2011 - 12

2007 - 12

2003 - 14

So although the squad is inexperienced, the team is likely to be experienced.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:00 pm 
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That 2011 squad was never destined for greatness, was it.

I thought we'd all agreed not to mention 2015 on this thread though.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:05 pm 
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God that 2007 squad was ropey

2011 had some dross in it but the number of journeymen on that list is incredible, how they managed to get to the final (and be robbed!!) I have no idea

Oh yes I do, they tried properly rucking for 60 minutes and then stumbled past a spent french team with a lucky try and a tap tackle


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:18 pm 
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openclashXX wrote:
Eddie has this strange Boris-like quality where I can't quite figure out if he's just making things up as he goes along or whether there's a grand plan that only he knows about

the back row thing is a classic example - for years under him we've been getting by with non-specialist 7s like Haskell, Robshaw and Wood playing openside, and for a brief period he was mentioning picking people like Itoje and Mike Williams there x(

now we're less than two months out from a World Cup and he's seemingly decided that England's best back row features not one, but two specialist opensides at 6 and 7 :?

He has obviously wanted to play either one of the them on the open for some time so why make the point about who was playing there before their emergence. The specialist 7s around were deemed not good enough


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:04 pm 
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Double wrote:
That 2011 squad was never destined for greatness, was it.

I thought we'd all agreed not to mention **** on this thread though.


Thanks.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:14 pm 
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colonel wrote:
God that 2007 squad was ropey

2011 had some dross in it but the number of journeymen on that list is incredible, how they managed to get to the final (and be robbed!!) I have no idea

Oh yes I do, they tried properly rucking for 60 minutes and then stumbled past a spent french team with a lucky try and a tap tackle


Indeed and both Cips and Haskell just missed out on the 2007 squad.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:37 pm 
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:lol: :lol: :lol:

https://twitter.com/ESPNUK/status/1161246138697224192


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:49 pm 
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eldanielfire wrote:

:lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:51 pm 
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eldanielfire wrote:


:thumbup: Joe


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:20 pm 
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If England prevail I think no other team have won with such an inexperienced team. The 2003 team was together for 2-3 years and at least a year past their best when they won. The pressure was on them then because they were probably no.1 team in the world but the experience pulled them through.
This year they have nothing to lose and will go far but I fear an experienced good team will end it.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:27 pm 
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Tez wrote:
If England prevail I think no other team have won with such an inexperienced team. The 2003 team was together for 2-3 years and at least a year past their best when they won. The pressure was on them then because they were probably no.1 team in the world but the experience pulled them through.
This year they have nothing to lose and will go far but I fear an experienced good team will end it.

Who's actually experienced this time?

SA - Nope
NZ - Yes, but I wouldn't bet them to win it this time. Ala 91.
Aus - Not really, in parts but not really.
England - In parts very, green in others.
Wales - Yes, well stocked.
Ireland - Yes
Scotland - Somewhat
France - Not relevant
Argentina - Doesn't matter their set pieces is going to pieces at the moment.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:46 pm 
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Wendigo7 wrote:
Tez wrote:
If England prevail I think no other team have won with such an inexperienced team. The 2003 team was together for 2-3 years and at least a year past their best when they won. The pressure was on them then because they were probably no.1 team in the world but the experience pulled them through.
This year they have nothing to lose and will go far but I fear an experienced good team will end it.

Who's actually experienced this time?

SA - Nope
NZ - Yes, but I wouldn't bet them to win it this time. Ala 91.
Aus - Not really, in parts but not really.
England - In parts very, green in others.
Wales - Yes, well stocked.
Ireland - Yes
Scotland - Somewhat
France - Not relevant
Argentina - Doesn't matter their set pieces is going to pieces at the moment.


Yeah, none of the teams look like world beaters this year. It's the most open world cup I can remember, any one of Australia, NZ, SA, England or Wales could realistically win it. Even France have an outside chance.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:05 pm 
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Double wrote:
Wendigo7 wrote:
Tez wrote:
If England prevail I think no other team have won with such an inexperienced team. The 2003 team was together for 2-3 years and at least a year past their best when they won. The pressure was on them then because they were probably no.1 team in the world but the experience pulled them through.
This year they have nothing to lose and will go far but I fear an experienced good team will end it.

Who's actually experienced this time?

SA - Nope
NZ - Yes, but I wouldn't bet them to win it this time. Ala 91.
Aus - Not really, in parts but not really.
England - In parts very, green in others.
Wales - Yes, well stocked.
Ireland - Yes
Scotland - Somewhat
France - Not relevant
Argentina - Doesn't matter their set pieces is going to pieces at the moment.


Yeah, none of the teams look like world beaters this year. It's the most open world cup I can remember, any one of Australia, NZ, SA, England or Wales could realistically win it. Even France have an outside chance.

So Ireland and Scotland aren’t in the reckoning? Probably right, it looks like SA are the team.


Last edited by Tez on Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:06 pm 
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Tez wrote:
Double wrote:
Wendigo7 wrote:
Tez wrote:
If England prevail I think no other team have won with such an inexperienced team. The 2003 team was together for 2-3 years and at least a year past their best when they won. The pressure was on them then because they were probably no.1 team in the world but the experience pulled them through.
This year they have nothing to lose and will go far but I fear an experienced good team will end it.

Who's actually experienced this time?

SA - Nope
NZ - Yes, but I wouldn't bet them to win it this time. Ala 91.
Aus - Not really, in parts but not really.
England - In parts very, green in others.
Wales - Yes, well stocked.
Ireland - Yes
Scotland - Somewhat
France - Not relevant
Argentina - Doesn't matter their set pieces is going to pieces at the moment.


Yeah, none of the teams look like world beaters this year. It's the most open world cup I can remember, any one of Australia, NZ, SA, England or Wales could realistically win it. Even France have an outside chance.

So Ireland and Scotland aren’t in the reckoning? Probably right,


Shit, I forgot about Scotland


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:08 pm 
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Double wrote:
Tez wrote:
Double wrote:
Wendigo7 wrote:
Tez wrote:
If England prevail I think no other team have won with such an inexperienced team. The 2003 team was together for 2-3 years and at least a year past their best when they won. The pressure was on them then because they were probably no.1 team in the world but the experience pulled them through.
This year they have nothing to lose and will go far but I fear an experienced good team will end it.

Who's actually experienced this time?

SA - Nope
NZ - Yes, but I wouldn't bet them to win it this time. Ala 91.
Aus - Not really, in parts but not really.
England - In parts very, green in others.
Wales - Yes, well stocked.
Ireland - Yes
Scotland - Somewhat
France - Not relevant
Argentina - Doesn't matter their set pieces is going to pieces at the moment.


Yeah, none of the teams look like world beaters this year. It's the most open world cup I can remember, any one of Australia, NZ, SA, England or Wales could realistically win it. Even France have an outside chance.

So Ireland and Scotland aren’t in the reckoning? Probably right,


Shit, I forgot about Scotland

You bastard


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:47 pm 
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Latest rising son video post Wales game. Lovely touch handing the first caps over.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tIZCdCg-Ok


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:51 pm 
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Madness wrote:
Latest rising son video post Wales game. Lovely touch handing the first caps over.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tIZCdCg-Ok

That's a great video.

You can see how proud Heinz and Ludlam's families are in the changing room.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:18 pm 
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Madness wrote:
Latest rising son video post Wales game. Lovely touch handing the first caps over.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tIZCdCg-Ok

Peter Wheeler has worn well


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:26 pm 
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I found out today Ludlam's father is Egyptian-Palestinian and his mother is Guyanese

And yet he has the most English sounding name in the squad


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:28 pm 
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Double wrote:
Tez wrote:
Double wrote:
Wendigo7 wrote:
Tez wrote:
If England prevail I think no other team have won with such an inexperienced team. The 2003 team was together for 2-3 years and at least a year past their best when they won. The pressure was on them then because they were probably no.1 team in the world but the experience pulled them through.
This year they have nothing to lose and will go far but I fear an experienced good team will end it.

Who's actually experienced this time?

SA - Nope
NZ - Yes, but I wouldn't bet them to win it this time. Ala 91.
Aus - Not really, in parts but not really.
England - In parts very, green in others.
Wales - Yes, well stocked.
Ireland - Yes
Scotland - Somewhat
France - Not relevant
Argentina - Doesn't matter their set pieces is going to pieces at the moment.


Yeah, none of the teams look like world beaters this year. It's the most open world cup I can remember, any one of Australia, NZ, SA, England or Wales could realistically win it. Even France have an outside chance.

So Ireland and Scotland aren’t in the reckoning? Probably right,


Shit, I forgot about Scotland


Nice.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:33 pm 
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openclashXX wrote:
I found out today Ludlam's father is Egyptian-Palestinian and his mother is Guyanese

And yet he has the most English sounding name in the squad


He’s a decent fella and done it the hard way, working class with a scholarship to St Joeys school to play.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:03 pm 
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openclashXX wrote:
I found out today Ludlam's father is Egyptian-Palestinian and his mother is Guyanese

And yet he has the most English sounding name in the squad


:D ... so true. Hopefully he wins some major honours over his career, because he really needs to be a Sir Lewis Ludlam, CBE or somesuch.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:32 pm 
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DragsterDriver wrote:
openclashXX wrote:
I found out today Ludlam's father is Egyptian-Palestinian and his mother is Guyanese

And yet he has the most English sounding name in the squad


He’s a decent fella and done it the hard way, working class with a scholarship to St Joeys school to play.


Here’s to wind in his sails :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:46 am 
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Madness wrote:
Latest rising son video post Wales game. Lovely touch handing the first caps over.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tIZCdCg-Ok


I'm really liking the RFUs recent media/social media output. It's really nice stuff. I did like how House of Rugby Podcast are taking credit for 'discovering' Joe Marler as the RFU are using him in loads of stuff now.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:52 am 
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eldanielfire wrote:
Madness wrote:
Latest rising son video post Wales game. Lovely touch handing the first caps over.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tIZCdCg-Ok


I'm really liking the RFUs recent media/social media output. It's really nice stuff. I did like how House of Rugby Podcast are taking credit for 'discovering' Joe Marler as the RFU are using him in loads of stuff now.


I don't watch/listen to house of rugby, but the RFU have been using Marler for years now. Anyone remember the boxing gloves?


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:20 am 
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Raggs wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
Madness wrote:
Latest rising son video post Wales game. Lovely touch handing the first caps over.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tIZCdCg-Ok


I'm really liking the RFUs recent media/social media output. It's really nice stuff. I did like how House of Rugby Podcast are taking credit for 'discovering' Joe Marler as the RFU are using him in loads of stuff now.


I don't watch/listen to house of rugby, but the RFU have been using Marler for years now. Anyone remember the boxing gloves?

Your stats hero (or at least he should be), got a big shout out this week. @rpetty80


Last edited by happyhooker on Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:03 am 
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I liked Russ Petty before he was cool.


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