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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:50 pm 
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JM2K6 wrote:
Willis seems like a good shout for a summer tour spot, assuming his form and fitness continues.

Not seen the curry twins this season.


Absolutely. Willis has been immense in the past few games.

He seems to be the player we hoped Underhill was going to be. He’s genuinely excellent over the ball and very physical in defence, as well as being a more than decent carrier. Sign me up for the band wagon.

Ben Curry has been excellent this season too. He’s a different type of player and arguably looks best as a linking flanker rather than defensively. On a couple of occasions this season he’s even managed to put in a deft kick that most 10s would be pleased with to create a try.

Tom Curry was playing well too but has been injured for a couple of months now.

ovalball wrote:
openclashXX wrote:
aside from his selections for the past 25-odd tests?

the back row ideally needs:

1. a heavy duty ball carrier
2. a quicker, more agile ball carrier
3. a lineout option, preferably two options
4. someone good over the ball

right now we have 2 and 3, with Robshaw/Hask/Billy we had 1 and 4. I don't see what configuration of players we select can give us all of them


I'd add a 5th - A very destructive tackler - all being decent tacklers goes without saying - but the likes of the Hask and Underworsley can have a big effect on the game with huge hits.

If Simmonds could develop into a 7 (maybe even a 6 with Robshaw at 7), or Underworsley learnt to carry/link, it'd be about as good as it is likely to get for us (with Robshaw and Billy). In the meantime I suspect it'll horses for courses, depending on who is available.


The World Cup will be too soon, but in the near future we may have:

1. Billy
2. Simmonds/Curry (either)
3. Mercer
4. Willis
5. Underhill

Not too shabby.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:56 pm 
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Scrumhead wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
Willis seems like a good shout for a summer tour spot, assuming his form and fitness continues.

Not seen the curry twins this season.


Absolutely. Willis has been immense in the past few games.

He seems to be the player we hoped Underhill was going to be. He’s genuinely excellent over the ball and very physical in defence, as well as being a more than decent carrier. Sign me up for the band wagon.

Ben Curry has been excellent this season too. He’s a different type of player and arguably looks best as a linking flanker rather than defensively. On a couple of occasions this season he’s even managed to put in a deft kick that most 10s would be pleased with to create a try.

Tom Curry was playing well too but has been injured for a couple of months now.

ovalball wrote:
openclashXX wrote:
aside from his selections for the past 25-odd tests?

the back row ideally needs:

1. a heavy duty ball carrier
2. a quicker, more agile ball carrier
3. a lineout option, preferably two options
4. someone good over the ball

right now we have 2 and 3, with Robshaw/Hask/Billy we had 1 and 4. I don't see what configuration of players we select can give us all of them


I'd add a 5th - A very destructive tackler - all being decent tacklers goes without saying - but the likes of the Hask and Underworsley can have a big effect on the game with huge hits.

If Simmonds could develop into a 7 (maybe even a 6 with Robshaw at 7), or Underworsley learnt to carry/link, it'd be about as good as it is likely to get for us (with Robshaw and Billy). In the meantime I suspect it'll horses for courses, depending on who is available.


The World Cup will be too soon, but in the near future we may have:

1. Billy
2. Simmonds/Curry (either)
3. Mercer
4. Willis
5. Underhill

Not too shabby.


And Hughes.

Still enough time for all of those before the RWC.

Clifford seems to have drifted off the radar a bit - still injured I guess. And then there's Armand and Wilson who might be in with a shout. We ought to be able to cobble together some sort of Backrow with all those players.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:58 pm 
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Just thinking about the game and Faz in particular.

His stats for that game are excellent. People have been complaining about his lack of running threat- well yesterday he made 30 metres, 2 clean breaks, and 4 half breaks. He was dangerous with ball in hand, razor sharp with the kicking from hand, made a number of critical interventions in defence, and was easily the best player on the pitch.

At long, long last, I get what the enormous list of coaches who've raved about him are seeing. I've no doubt he won't be quite as good as that in every game from now on, but when in form, my God. Is there any doubt that he's the best 12 England have had since Greenwood at this point?

And his partnership with Ford is developing brilliantly.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:58 pm 
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Jack's brother Tom is apparently even better. :D


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:37 pm 
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Sinckler (55mins) and Hughes (25 mins) both came through today's game OK. And Daly is back in training and could be involved next weekend for Wasps.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:00 pm 
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ovalball wrote:
Sinckler (55mins) and Hughes (25 mins) both came through today's game OK. And Daly is back in training and could be involved next weekend for Wasps.

Hughes looked really ponderous and leaden footed to me. I don't think he's going to be up to speed in time for Murrayfield.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:05 pm 
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Agreed re. Hughes.

Quins were finished by the time he came on and he made absolutely 0 impact.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:27 pm 
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Hughes and Daly could be back for the Ireland game though.

Is Daly made from lego or something? He seems to have defied all expectations in terms of injury turnaround times, both now and for the AI's. Or perhaps the Wasps medical team are very conservative with their estimations.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:31 am 
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Scrumhead wrote:
Agreed re. Hughes.

Quins were finished by the time he came on and he made absolutely 0 impact.


Wasps said he was 'blowing hard' - obviously needs some more time to get match fit. They've got 4 weeks until the France game, 5 until Ireland - should be long enough - even if it is only as impact subs. Didn't think our bench had its' normal impact, in attack, on the game yesterday. Seemed to lose continuity a bit when Ford and Care went off.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:42 am 
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Has this been done? Eddie getting Georgia to do full-throttle scrum sessions with England: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/ ... land-scrum


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:51 am 
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JM2K6 wrote:
Has this been done? Eddie getting Georgia to do full-throttle scrum sessions with England: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/ ... land-scrum

Can't hurt [unless someone gets injured] but I think England's biggest problem is the fact our players are decent but no more than that in the set-piece. We're not really producing them like we used to.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:16 am 
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Scrumhead wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
Willis seems like a good shout for a summer tour spot, assuming his form and fitness continues.

Not seen the curry twins this season.


Absolutely. Willis has been immense in the past few games.

He seems to be the player we hoped Underhill was going to be. He’s genuinely excellent over the ball and very physical in defence, as well as being a more than decent carrier. Sign me up for the band wagon.

Ben Curry has been excellent this season too. He’s a different type of player and arguably looks best as a linking flanker rather than defensively. On a couple of occasions this season he’s even managed to put in a deft kick that most 10s would be pleased with to create a try.

Tom Curry was playing well too but has been injured for a couple of months now.

ovalball wrote:
openclashXX wrote:
aside from his selections for the past 25-odd tests?

the back row ideally needs:

1. a heavy duty ball carrier
2. a quicker, more agile ball carrier
3. a lineout option, preferably two options
4. someone good over the ball

right now we have 2 and 3, with Robshaw/Hask/Billy we had 1 and 4. I don't see what configuration of players we select can give us all of them


I'd add a 5th - A very destructive tackler - all being decent tacklers goes without saying - but the likes of the Hask and Underworsley can have a big effect on the game with huge hits.

If Simmonds could develop into a 7 (maybe even a 6 with Robshaw at 7), or Underworsley learnt to carry/link, it'd be about as good as it is likely to get for us (with Robshaw and Billy). In the meantime I suspect it'll horses for courses, depending on who is available.


The World Cup will be too soon, but in the near future we may have:

1. Billy
2. Simmonds/Curry (either)
3. Mercer
4. Willis
5. Underhill

Not too shabby.


Rhodes, Tom Ellis, Shields. Will Dave Ewers stay fit enough for a push ?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:07 am 
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Tom Ellis is a good shout. He was looking good last season before he got injured and offers a good lineout threat, decent pace and a high work rate. I’m not sure when he’s due back from injury but I doubt he’ll have enough time to press a claim before the World Cup.

I think Ewers’ ship has sailed/never left port. Shields would offer that same 6/8 option and it wouldn’t surprise me to see him in the England squad before he’s made an appearance for Wasps (like Te’o and Francis).

It could be Quins bias here but James Chisholm is having a good season to back up some really eye catching performances prior to his concussion problems last year. I wonder how much better Brad Shields will be given that they cover the same positions?

Rhodes is an interesting one. I imagine he’s the type of player Eddie would really like but it could be that he and Shields are competing for one spot (albeit in very different styles).


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:36 am 
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I see Jones has successfully made the story about his comments and not about the game.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:44 am 
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The Man Without Fear wrote:
I see Jones has successfully made the story about his comments and not about the game.


:nod: Without fail. Can't say I'm terribly unhappy to see him give the press' nose a tweak. Particularly since they persist in claiming the non-try would have reversed the result


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:52 am 
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The Man Without Fear wrote:
I see Jones has successfully made the story about his comments and not about the game.


Taking a leaf out of Mourinho's book?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:36 am 
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Good win for Sale at the weekend, I think I read we had three tries ruled out by the TMO so should have been more comfortable if we could've finished a few off :evil:
As for England, I thought Farrell was imperious. His presence alone is invaluable, such a fantastic competitor. Bit concerning how we failed to keep the scoreboard ticking over but Wales' defence / Garces' incompetence at policing the ruck meant that penalty opportunities were at a premium.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:59 am 
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The match report indicates that Charnley had a good game


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:05 am 
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geordie_6 wrote:
The Man Without Fear wrote:
I see Jones has successfully made the story about his comments and not about the game.


Taking a leaf out of Mourinho's book?


Definitely, he's explicitly stated that he is a big fan of the EPL and tries to learn a lot from coaches in it (which seems barking to me in some ways but I do get the value of stuff like tactical periodisation)


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:07 am 
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The Man Without Fear wrote:
I see Jones has successfully made the story about his comments and not about the game.

He was born to coach England, wasn't he.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:11 am 
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croyals wrote:
The Man Without Fear wrote:
I see Jones has successfully made the story about his comments and not about the game.

He was born to coach England, wasn't he.


:D

It really seems to be the job he was destined for. The two sides of the coin complement each other brilliantly - Eddie gets a team which is naturally well-suited to playing a tight in game so he doesn't have to tear himself to pieces trying to get the setpiece up to snuff and rewriting his team's DNA in the process, England get someone perfectly suited to navigating the bearpit of the rugby press and who can help them find the creativity and doggedness that so often go missing. I'm expecting his successor to be a massive step down by comparison - but if Yoda can win us the World Cup (and I increasingly think that he can) then I can live with that, provided it's not a crash like 2004


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:21 am 
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45jumper wrote:
Good win for Sale at the weekend, I think I read we had three tries ruled out by the TMO so should have been more comfortable if we could've finished a few off :evil:
As for England, I thought Farrell was imperious. His presence alone is invaluable, such a fantastic competitor. Bit concerning how we failed to keep the scoreboard ticking over but Wales' defence / Garces' incompetence at policing the ruck meant that penalty opportunities were at a premium.


Was a pretty poor game in poor conditions. Sale had a few ruled out correctly. TMO and ref was asleep at the wheel when Brophy Clews was taken out in the build up to Sale's try by a shoulder charge off the ball. Hope he's not out for too long as he's had a really good month or two and would be good to have involved against Saints and Worcester. Doubt it would have made too much of a difference as LI were very blunt in attack.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:29 pm 
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Cipriani and Haskell both confirmed to be leaving Wasps at the end of the season now. The last of the HEC-winning generation departs. Hard to begrudge either, and Sopoaga and Shields are very handy replacements for both, but it's still a poignant moment in the history of the club.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:38 pm 
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Chuckles1188 wrote:
Cipriani and Haskell both confirmed to be leaving Wasps at the end of the season now. The last of the HEC-winning generation departs. Hard to begrudge either, and Sopoaga and Shields are very handy replacements for both, but it's still a poignant moment in the history of the club.

Gutted to be losing Cips and disappointed for Haskell not to be even given the option.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:47 pm 
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Chuckles1188 wrote:
croyals wrote:
The Man Without Fear wrote:
I see Jones has successfully made the story about his comments and not about the game.

He was born to coach England, wasn't he.


:D

It really seems to be the job he was destined for. The two sides of the coin complement each other brilliantly - Eddie gets a team which is naturally well-suited to playing a tight in game so he doesn't have to tear himself to pieces trying to get the setpiece up to snuff and rewriting his team's DNA in the process, England get someone perfectly suited to navigating the bearpit of the rugby press and who can help them find the creativity and doggedness that so often go missing. I'm expecting his successor to be a massive step down by comparison - but if Yoda can win us the World Cup (and I increasingly think that he can) then I can live with that, provided it's not a crash like 2004



IMO the chances of winning the world cup hasn't changed at all under Eddie Jones. Not because of anything he has done but due to the All Blacks being the big barrier in the way.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:51 pm 
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Gospel wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
Cipriani and Haskell both confirmed to be leaving Wasps at the end of the season now. The last of the HEC-winning generation departs. Hard to begrudge either, and Sopoaga and Shields are very handy replacements for both, but it's still a poignant moment in the history of the club.

Gutted to be losing Cips and disappointed for Haskell not to be even given the option.


The Haskell decision is exactly the sort of hard nosed decision that a good DOR makes.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:00 pm 
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JM2K6 wrote:
Gospel wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
Cipriani and Haskell both confirmed to be leaving Wasps at the end of the season now. The last of the HEC-winning generation departs. Hard to begrudge either, and Sopoaga and Shields are very handy replacements for both, but it's still a poignant moment in the history of the club.

Gutted to be losing Cips and disappointed for Haskell not to be even given the option.


The Haskell decision is exactly the sort of hard nosed decision that a good DOR makes.

Imagine my surprise that you and I disagree. I'd have liked Wasps to retain Haskell provided the money was right for both parties - the fact that he wasn't even offered terms was very much a surprise.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:02 pm 
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Gospel wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
Gospel wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
Cipriani and Haskell both confirmed to be leaving Wasps at the end of the season now. The last of the HEC-winning generation departs. Hard to begrudge either, and Sopoaga and Shields are very handy replacements for both, but it's still a poignant moment in the history of the club.

Gutted to be losing Cips and disappointed for Haskell not to be even given the option.


The Haskell decision is exactly the sort of hard nosed decision that a good DOR makes.

Imagine my surprise that you and I disagree. I'd have liked Wasps to retain Haskell provided the money was right for both parties - the fact that he wasn't even offered terms was very much a surprise.


I figured Dai had already spent his money on players he wanted, and had none left for Hask. Hask just doesn't fit our gameplan any more. It is a shame, but I'm with JM on this one, it's exactly the big call that a DOR should be making.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:03 pm 
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Chuckles1188 wrote:
Cipriani and Haskell both confirmed to be leaving Wasps at the end of the season now. The last of the HEC-winning generation departs. Hard to begrudge either, and Sopoaga and Shields are very handy replacements for both, but it's still a poignant moment in the history of the club.



Indeed. Last of the Gatland-Edwards era and those who played under Dallaglio. It does seem a bit of a cut-off from the past now.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:06 pm 
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Raggs wrote:
Gospel wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
Gospel wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
Cipriani and Haskell both confirmed to be leaving Wasps at the end of the season now. The last of the HEC-winning generation departs. Hard to begrudge either, and Sopoaga and Shields are very handy replacements for both, but it's still a poignant moment in the history of the club.

Gutted to be losing Cips and disappointed for Haskell not to be even given the option.


The Haskell decision is exactly the sort of hard nosed decision that a good DOR makes.

Imagine my surprise that you and I disagree. I'd have liked Wasps to retain Haskell provided the money was right for both parties - the fact that he wasn't even offered terms was very much a surprise.


I figured Dai had already spent his money on players he wanted, and had none left for Hask. Hask just doesn't fit our gameplan any more. It is a shame, but I'm with JM on this one, it's exactly the big call that a DOR should be making.


Me too. It's good to preserve memories of past glories, but not if they are holding you back from producing more memories, and I think Young is right to look to the future. With the news about Jones as well as this you'd imagine he's in the market for another flanker now though


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:32 pm 
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I don't think Haskell was holding Wasps back. His all round ability, versatility and experience have been massive for Wasps. I do understand the logic and the pragmatism in the decision - I'm just surprised he's been given the bums rush for the door. As for not fitting the Wasps game plan I think that's nonsense.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:39 pm 
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Mick Mannock wrote:
The match report indicates that Charnley had a good game


A number of people who went thought that he was our best player - very encouraging. His first few games in union were superb, but then a combination of the team's downturn in results, McGuigan's fantastic form and Solomona being undroppable meant he was suddenly sidelined through no real fault of his own.
The strange thing is that if everyone's fit he's our fourth choice winger, so I don't know if he'll ever really fulfill his potential at that place in the pecking order.

As for Cips, wonder where he'll go next? He's been linked with us and it does make sense in a lot of ways. The only real caveat is that Dimes has said that we won't be recruiting in the backs for next season (but we have heard him say this before), and MacGinty's great form. Having said that, our depth there is very poor. JOC is not a regular 10 - despite what anyone says - and Sam James is a much, much better 13 and needs to concentrate on that. Beyond that, Redpath is apparently being developed as a centre and Wilkinson is still very young.
I was initially unconvinced but I think I may have talked myself round with that :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:55 pm 
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JM2K6 wrote:
Has this been done? Eddie getting Georgia to do full-throttle scrum sessions with England: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/ ... land-scrum

I see EJ (or the RFU) has hired Dal Maso on a long-term basis as a consultant, should've just hired him at the start full-time when he was asking for the job imo.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:06 pm 
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Sam Moore and Ibitoye named as an apprentice player in Eddie's latest 32 man training squad.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:09 pm 
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Margin_Walker wrote:
Sam Moore and Ibitoye named as an apprentice player in Eddie's latest 32 man training squad.


Press have already torpedoed Jack Willis and maybe his brother by association. Shame.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:10 pm 
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Margin_Walker wrote:
Sam Moore and Ibitoye named as an apprentice player in Eddie's latest 32 man training squad.


Wtf? :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:22 pm 
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fatcat wrote:
Margin_Walker wrote:
Sam Moore and Ibitoye named as an apprentice player in Eddie's latest 32 man training squad.


Wtf? :lol:


I know. Ibitoye plays terribly one week, gets dropped. Plays (very well) due to a late injury and gets a shot at the big time.

Moore has looked pretty underwhelming during the two U20s games so far as well, but I guess they are taking the long very and have identified them both for the fast track pathway.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:26 pm 
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fatcat wrote:
Margin_Walker wrote:
Sam Moore and Ibitoye named as an apprentice player in Eddie's latest 32 man training squad.


Wtf? :lol:

That might piss-off some Welsh


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:28 pm 
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Mick Mannock wrote:
fatcat wrote:
Margin_Walker wrote:
Sam Moore and Ibitoye named as an apprentice player in Eddie's latest 32 man training squad.


Wtf? :lol:

That might piss-off some Welsh


Because of Moore's Welsh connection or Ibityoe's African connection?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:28 pm 
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Was going to say, Moore could be to try and make sure the Welsh don't turn his head.


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