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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:57 pm 
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It would be entirely sensible to play shields at 8- no idea what he’ll do though.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:05 pm 
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DragsterDriver wrote:
It would be entirely sensible to play shields at 8- no idea what he’ll do though.
My guess is we're going to see more than a couple of people out of their regular position... Just thinking about it… last week, at various points we had:

A wing/ centre at full back Daly)
A full back at wing (Brown)
A flanker at lock (Shields)
Two 10s at centre (at different points – Farrell and Francis)
Whatever Slade is at 13, but he mostly plays 13 now I think (?)
For once, we didn’t have a 6 at 7, and I don’t *think* we had a lock at flanker – but neither of those would have been out of the ordinary for Eddie
And this week a 10 (Cips) at 15 wouldn’t surprise me, nor would Loz anywhere from 10-15

When Eddie started, selection – by form and position – seemed to be where he was doing so much better than his predecessors. Coincidence that selection and results have both gone to shit simultaneously?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:58 pm 
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Balls Out! wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
It would be entirely sensible to play shields at 8- no idea what he’ll do though.
My guess is we're going to see more than a couple of people out of their regular position... Just thinking about it… last week, at various points we had:

A wing/ centre at full back Daly)
A full back at wing (Brown)
A flanker at lock (Shields)
Two 10s at centre (at different points – Farrell and Francis)
Whatever Slade is at 13, but he mostly plays 13 now I think (?)
For once, we didn’t have a 6 at 7, and I don’t *think* we had a lock at flanker – but neither of those would have been out of the ordinary for Eddie
And this week a 10 (Cips) at 15 wouldn’t surprise me, nor would Loz anywhere from 10-15

When Eddie started, selection – by form and position – seemed to be where he was doing so much better than his predecessors. Coincidence that selection and results have both gone to shit simultaneously?


Francis is a 12 who can play 10 in a pinch, really. And yes, Slade is a 13 these days.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:37 am 
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The twitter suggests Ashton on his way back to England? Brizzle?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:59 am 
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DragsterDriver wrote:
The twitter suggests Ashton on his way back to England? Brizzle?


He'll be a great option for us at outside centre [/Eddie]


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:24 am 
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openclashXX wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
The twitter suggests Ashton on his way back to England? Brizzle?


He'll be a great option for us at outside centre [/Eddie]


:lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:43 am 
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:lol: :lol:

I'm not going to make any jokes myself - the mockers took full notice of my Brown comment last week :uhoh:


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:12 am 
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Eddie's selections have been poor for a while now. He often picks out of form players and in form players out of position.

I'm no international coach/manager, but I have captained and managed teams - initial selection was to pick my best players in their best position and work from there. Sure, 'best' can be a subjective thing taking into account form/experience/character etc. Sometimes you have a lack of quality in one position and surplus in others, but playing players out of position is almost always a bad idea (more so at elite level).

Team below is not what Eddie will pick:

Marler
George
Sinckler
Launch
Itoje
Shields
Curry
Billy
Youngs
Ford
Daly
Farrell
Slade
May
Brown

Mako
LCD
Williams
Isiekwe
Simmons
Spencer
Solomona


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:18 am 
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Homer wrote:
Eddie's selections have been poor for a while now. He often picks out of form players and in form players out of position.

I'm no international coach/manager, but I have captained and managed teams - initial selection was to pick my best players in their best position and work from there. Sure, 'best' can be a subjective thing taking into account form/experience/character etc. Sometimes you have a lack of quality in one position and surplus in others, but playing players out of position is almost always a bad idea (more so at elite level).

Team below is not what Eddie will pick:

Marler
George
Sinckler
Launch
Itoje
Shields
Curry
Billy
Youngs
Ford
Daly
Farrell
Slade
May
Brown

Mako
LCD
Williams
Isiekwe
Simmons
Spencer
Solomona


It would be just like Eddie to decide he doesn’t need a full bench; arrogant sod :x

(Tbf that’s exactly the first XV I’d pick!)


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:31 am 
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45jumper wrote:
:lol: :lol:

I'm not going to make any jokes myself - the mockers took full notice of my Brown comment last week :uhoh:


You’re on a yellow :frown:


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:34 am 
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Joost wrote:
Homer wrote:
Eddie's selections have been poor for a while now. He often picks out of form players and in form players out of position.

I'm no international coach/manager, but I have captained and managed teams - initial selection was to pick my best players in their best position and work from there. Sure, 'best' can be a subjective thing taking into account form/experience/character etc. Sometimes you have a lack of quality in one position and surplus in others, but playing players out of position is almost always a bad idea (more so at elite level).

Team below is not what Eddie will pick:

Marler
George
Sinckler
Launch
Itoje
Shields
Curry
Billy
Youngs
Ford
Daly
Farrell
Slade
May
Brown

Mako
LCD
Williams
Isiekwe
Simmons
Spencer
Solomona


It would be just like Eddie to decide he doesn’t need a full bench; arrogant sod :x

(Tbf that’s exactly the first XV I’d pick!)


Mako and Williams to start, would have had Genge on bench if not injured, Sinks seems much better as an impact player.

So my bench would be
Marler, LCD, Sinks, Isiekwe, Simmonds, Robson, Cips, Woodward


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:37 am 
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Madness wrote:
Joost wrote:
Homer wrote:
Eddie's selections have been poor for a while now. He often picks out of form players and in form players out of position.

I'm no international coach/manager, but I have captained and managed teams - initial selection was to pick my best players in their best position and work from there. Sure, 'best' can be a subjective thing taking into account form/experience/character etc. Sometimes you have a lack of quality in one position and surplus in others, but playing players out of position is almost always a bad idea (more so at elite level).

Team below is not what Eddie will pick:

Marler
George
Sinckler
Launch
Itoje
Shields
Curry
Billy
Youngs
Ford
Daly
Farrell
Slade
May
Brown

Mako
LCD
Williams
Isiekwe
Simmons
Spencer
Solomona


It would be just like Eddie to decide he doesn’t need a full bench; arrogant sod :x

(Tbf that’s exactly the first XV I’d pick!)


Mako and Williams to start, would have had Genge on bench if not injured, Sinks seems much better as an impact player.

So my bench would be
Marler, LCD, Sinks, Isiekwe, Simmonds, Robson, Cips, Woodward


Williams made a big impact off the bench...

I think in general, front row look good coming off the bench, since they know they'll have 15-20 minutes tops. I don't think it's a big surprise that George hasn't looked as good since starting, compared to what he was doing coming off the bench.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:41 am 
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Brazil wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
Not sure what people are surprised about. Eddie is very consistent. Unless you fell for his post 6N mea culpa about trusting the youngsters more.


Is "consistent" usually used as a synonym for "stubborn"?

Only by the habitually polite.

In respect of Eddie, 'consistent' takes the value 'absurdly fecking pig-headed'.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:34 am 
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Team announced

Shields in for Robslow, Cipriani on the bench, Mike f*cking Brown still on the wing


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:36 am 
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Wow - Robslow dropped altogether! Mark Wilson on the bench, so Shields still apparently covering second row ffs

Starters

15 Elliot Daly (Wasps, 19 caps), 14 Jonny May (Leicester Tigers, 35 caps), 13 Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 11 caps), 12 Owen Farrell (Saracens, 59 caps), 11 Mike Brown (Harlequins, 70 caps), 10 George Ford (Leicester Tigers, 46 caps), 9 Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 75 caps); 1 Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 50 caps), 2 Jamie George (Saracens, 26 caps), 3 Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins, 11 caps), 4 Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 52 caps), 5 Maro Itoje (Saracens, 20 caps), 6 Brad Shields (Hurricanes/ Wasps, 1 cap), 7 Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 2 cap), 8 Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 35 caps)  

Finishers

16 Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 6 caps), 17 Joe Marler (Harlequins, 57 caps), 18 Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs, 9 caps), 19 Mark Wilson (Newcastle 2 caps), 20 Nathan Hughes (Wasps, 15 caps), 21 Ben Spencer (Saracens, 1 cap), 22 Danny Cipriani (Wasps, 14 caps), 23 Denny Solomona (Sale Sharks, 3 caps)


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:41 am 
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Team seems to at least be understandable, if not what I would have picked. Eddie is obviously happy with his heirarchy at lock, taking the opportunity to look at as many back rowers as possible.

Doesn't Hughes also cover lock?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:54 am 
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Who covers 7?
Wilson?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:56 am 
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Aside from switching Daly and Brown around, that’s probably the best we can do at the moment.

You’d hope we’ll have a bit more bite in the rucks and the close-in defence with Shields and Launchbury in the side. Hopefully less of a riding from the ref at the breakdown too!


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:59 am 
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Joost wrote:
Aside from switching Daly and Brown around, that’s probably the best we can do at the moment.

You’d hope we’ll have a bit more bite in the rucks and the close-in defence with Shields and Launchbury in the side. Hopefully less of a riding from the ref at the breakdown too!


Plus the rest of the pack need to play like someone's stuck a rocket up their arse.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:02 pm 
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Its almost the team I would have picked from the squad available. A bit of testing people out and a bit of security blanket. Would have had Loz for Slade (not convinced by Slade last week). Cipriani makes a lot more sense than Francis on the bench - while it means we have no centre cover, Cips is far more likely to be a game-changing finisher. Francis is just playing safe - a less good version of Farell.

As to the Brown/Daly thing - I have a bit of respect for this. Brown is not a long-term option and we have a lot of good wings. If Watson or Nowell were fit then no-one would be upset at Daly being put at FB. Brown isn't a great winger, but he can do a job, and pushing Daly to see if he can be a good FB is a good idea.

All the stuff about Shields' nationality aside, I do think Robshaw's effectiveness has decreased fairly sharply. I used to be a big supporter when he was constantly top tackler and short-carrier etc. His influence is no not as big. I have thought for a long time that England have been lacking a baby-eating tough backrow (in the O'Mahoney style) for a long time. Athleticism is great, but I also want a warrior. Can Shields do that? Maybe. Also nice to see Wilson on the bench. Very impressed with him in Argentina and felt it was a bit unfair he didn't get more of a chance.

Very pleased to see Lunchbelly back. Probably my favourite England player. When fully fit he is a monster that will really help the team.

Now, please England, contest some lineouts and try to put some oomph onto the gainline in both attack and defence.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:10 pm 
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willmac wrote:
Who covers 7?
Wilson?


Yeah, think he has been taken primarily as a 7.

Though, given Eddie's history, it'll be Marler...


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:12 pm 
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The final nail in Robshaws coffin you feel


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:12 pm 
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Good luck Mako...

Hope Launch is the answer, he was dire in the semi final. Will be interesting to see what Shields can bring to the back row. The Brown thing is just stubbornness, he scored but both he and Daly were obviously diminished by being out of position. Here's hoping it doesn't bite us as hard as last week.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:49 pm 
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Mark Wilson has played quite a bit across the back row, but also at lock. Would he be second row cover as well as flanker?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:50 pm 
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Better looking team. I would have gone with Williams and had one of Hill/Isiekwe on the bench instead of Hughes. Nice to see Wilson get another shot.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:58 pm 
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Aside from Brown on the wing, that side is not far off.

Daly can cover centre (with either Brown or Cips going to FB)

I guess we always have either a Lock covering a back row position or a Back Rower covering Lock - but slightly worrying that we won't have a fresh player to bring on at Lock.

Back Row looks better, assuming Shields lives up to his billing and integrates well. Pleased to see Wilson get an opportunity - hope he plays his socks off when he gets on. Bench looks dynamic.

Just hope that some of the other problems have been sorted and it doesn't just prove to be shuffling deckchairs. If they haven't sorted out positional defence, aggression at the the breakdown, Line speed and discipline - then we'll still struggle.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:04 pm 
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Either our pack needs to go really well or Gustards earned his money sorting that backline out.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:05 pm 
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beastofbrum wrote:
The final nail in Robshaws coffin you feel


He either starts or doesn't feature, he's not a bench player.

And Stephen Jones gets it wrong again! If I was on Twitter I'd be blocked by him.

Still not happy with Brown on the wing, but if we can stop quick ball and the inside backs can gum up the Boks' backline before it puts him in a one on one with a speedy winger, we should be OK (he says more in hope than expectation).


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:06 pm 
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geordie_6 wrote:
willmac wrote:
Who covers 7?
Wilson?


Yeah, think he has been taken primarily as a 7.

Though, given Eddie's history, it'll be Marler...


or May


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:12 pm 
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JM2K6 wrote:
Good luck Mako...

Hope Launch is the answer, he was dire in the semi final. Will be interesting to see what Shields can bring to the back row. The Brown thing is just stubbornness, he scored but both he and Daly were obviously diminished by being out of position. Here's hoping it doesn't bite us as hard as last week.


It’s the Dan Cole ‘play him until he’s dead’ with mako. I’d have deffo started marler.

Thinking we’ll see cips at 15 from the bench? Daly to wing?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:16 pm 
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The Man Without Fear wrote:
beastofbrum wrote:
The final nail in Robshaws coffin you feel


He either starts or doesn't feature, he's not a bench player.



Never relinquish control of the narrative, especially when it comes to a Quins player


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:17 pm 
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Rowntree leaves Quins, wonder if Wasps may have a sniff if Danny Wilson is confirmed to be off.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:23 pm 
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openclashXX wrote:
The Man Without Fear wrote:
beastofbrum wrote:
The final nail in Robshaws coffin you feel


He either starts or doesn't feature, he's not a bench player.



Never relinquish control of the narrative, especially when it comes to a Quins player


Says the man obsessed with "Robslow" to a degree of tedium rarely matched, even on this asylum.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:31 pm 
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The Man Without Fear wrote:
openclashXX wrote:
The Man Without Fear wrote:
beastofbrum wrote:
The final nail in Robshaws coffin you feel


He either starts or doesn't feature, he's not a bench player.



Never relinquish control of the narrative, especially when it comes to a Quins player


Says the man obsessed with "Robslow" to a degree of tedium rarely matched, even on this asylum.


I guess at least there’s a new bitchy little nickname for him... :yawn:


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:36 pm 
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Raggs wrote:
Rowntree leaves Quins, wonder if Wasps may have a sniff if Danny Wilson is confirmed to be off.


I don’t think he’s any good.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:38 pm 
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DragsterDriver wrote:
Raggs wrote:
Rowntree leaves Quins, wonder if Wasps may have a sniff if Danny Wilson is confirmed to be off.


I don’t think he’s any good.


I think you may have mentioned it before, if only in passing.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:42 pm 
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The Man Without Fear wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Raggs wrote:
Rowntree leaves Quins, wonder if Wasps may have a sniff if Danny Wilson is confirmed to be off.


I don’t think he’s any good.


I think you may have mentioned it before, if only in passing.


It appears I was correct in that case.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:43 pm 
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The Man Without Fear wrote:
openclashXX wrote:
The Man Without Fear wrote:
beastofbrum wrote:
The final nail in Robshaws coffin you feel


He either starts or doesn't feature, he's not a bench player.



Never relinquish control of the narrative, especially when it comes to a Quins player


Says the man obsessed with "Robslow" to a degree of tedium rarely matched, even on this asylum.


"Robshaw has not been dropped! He would be in the match day squad, he's just better as a starter than a finisher!"


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:59 pm 
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openclashXX wrote:
The Man Without Fear wrote:
openclashXX wrote:
The Man Without Fear wrote:
beastofbrum wrote:
The final nail in Robshaws coffin you feel


He either starts or doesn't feature, he's not a bench player.



Never relinquish control of the narrative, especially when it comes to a Quins player


Says the man obsessed with "Robslow" to a degree of tedium rarely matched, even on this asylum.


"Robshaw has not been dropped! He would be in the match day squad, he's just better as a starter than a finisher!"


That was the conclusion you drew from my post? You are a bloody fool, and no mistake.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:04 pm 
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The Man Without Fear wrote:
That was the conclusion you drew from my post? You are a bloody fool, and no mistake.


Robshaw dropped to 3rd choice blindside (or worse, depending on how you class Hughes and Itoje as 6s) in an underperforming side doesn't read well, I can see why you're engaging in this narrative management


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