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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:12 pm 
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Backwoodsman1 wrote:
Margin_Walker wrote:
Doesn't look like the great escape is on

Exeter predictably all over LI. Unlucky only to be 7-0 up

Simmonds looking very good

Edit - And Simmonds goes in for a winger's try down the right touchline. 14-0

Edit - Simmonds again from a maul. They are a lot better than Quins... 21 - 0


That was a stellar performance from Simmonds, apart from the three tries. He moved to 7 at half time when Armand went off. He was still making first up tackles in the 80th minute.
The second row pairing of Hill and Skinner should be on Jones' radar too - very low penalty count and serious work rate.


Yep, Simmonds looked superb today. Incredibly hard to put down and huge workrate

LCD had a quiet game before going off. In the loose anyway. His darts were great


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:16 pm 
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On the LCD v Taylor question, take both of them to South Africa and tell them it's up for grabs.

Hartley and George can have a rest.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:20 pm 
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Likely to be revised, but ESPN have Simmonds at 24/0 on the tackle count, with the 3 tries and 95 metres made


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:41 pm 
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Margin_Walker wrote:
Likely to be revised, but ESPN have Simmonds at 24/0 on the tackle count, with the 3 tries and 95 metres made


Haven't watched, but does he play in the wide channels for Exeter like Read does for the ABs? Eddie doesn't employ BRs like that, does he?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:51 pm 
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Nieghorn wrote:
Margin_Walker wrote:
Likely to be revised, but ESPN have Simmonds at 24/0 on the tackle count, with the 3 tries and 95 metres made


Haven't watched, but does he play in the wide channels for Exeter like Read does for the ABs? Eddie doesn't employ BRs like that, does he?

Yes he plays wider. We saw in the 6N that he's sod all use against bigger men.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:03 pm 
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Apart from one burst down the wing, his yards were all up the middle.

Certainly a conundrum when it comes to international rugby though.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:11 pm 
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Gospel wrote:
Nieghorn wrote:
Margin_Walker wrote:
Likely to be revised, but ESPN have Simmonds at 24/0 on the tackle count, with the 3 tries and 95 metres made


Haven't watched, but does he play in the wide channels for Exeter like Read does for the ABs? Eddie doesn't employ BRs like that, does he?

Yes he plays wider. We saw in the 6N that he's sod all use against bigger men.


Not when you're tasked with running at them- would Read be any good? Billy V is, but it breaks him constantly.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:17 pm 
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Raggs wrote:
You're arguing with JM about how good a Wasps player is... that's like arguing with me that Clifford is international class.


Hmm, needless twattery there Raggs. I think Taylor is a fine player. I think Gospel doesn't understand what "x-factor" refers to.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:56 pm 
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DragsterDriver wrote:
Gospel wrote:
Nieghorn wrote:
Margin_Walker wrote:
Likely to be revised, but ESPN have Simmonds at 24/0 on the tackle count, with the 3 tries and 95 metres made


Haven't watched, but does he play in the wide channels for Exeter like Read does for the ABs? Eddie doesn't employ BRs like that, does he?

Yes he plays wider. We saw in the 6N that he's sod all use against bigger men.


Not when you're tasked with running at them- would Read be any good? Billy V is, but it breaks him constantly.

There be truth in that. What makes Simmonds so effective is when he's allowed to play his natural game - but the same can be said for all the runners and riders in an and around England selection. It's being able to fit into Eddie's game plan that is the most important aspect.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:57 pm 
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I think Simmonds can work at 8 at test level if he has the right 6 and 7 playing alongside him.

Playing alongside a big 6 who can carry would make a difference. Chisholm or possibly Shields? It would also help with other carriers elsewhere in the pack too.

I’m not totally sure he’s good enough yet to build out back row around though.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:58 pm 
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JM2K6 wrote:
I think Gospel doesn't understand what "x-factor" refers to.

You patronising tosser. :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:01 pm 
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Gospel wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
I think Gospel doesn't understand what "x-factor" refers to.

You patronising tosser. :lol:


Just calling it as I see it. But nice to know the Wasps fans don't think this

Quote:
Great lineout thrower, good scrummager, excellent defender, big engine


is enough praise and decided to close ranks instead :roll:


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:13 pm 
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JM2K6 wrote:
Gospel wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
I think Gospel doesn't understand what "x-factor" refers to.

You patronising tosser. :lol:


Just calling it as I see it. But nice to know the Wasps fans don't think this

Quote:
Great lineout thrower, good scrummager, excellent defender, big engine


is enough praise and decided to close ranks instead :roll:

It was remiss of me not to actually mention what i thought was Taylor's x-factor namely his pace and all court game. Put it down to a busy weekend emptying the house of clutter and posting on the hoof. LCD seems to be the front runner because he's a far more abrasive carrier but unless he can sort his darts out under pressure he's as much use as tits on a bull.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:17 pm 
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I honestly don't remember Taylor having particularly notable pace (which isn't the same thing as me arguing that he doesn't have it, for the record). And I certainly think there's a place for a guy who is a quality all-rounder. I just think for England that place needs to be on the bench behind a guy who can break teams open and is a demon at the breakdown.

Now, if both of them could stay fit, and if George could regain his off-the-cuff mojo...


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:26 pm 
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JM2K6 wrote:
I honestly don't remember Taylor having particularly notable pace (which isn't the same thing as me arguing that he doesn't have it, for the record). And I certainly think there's a place for a guy who is a quality all-rounder. I just think for England that place needs to be on the bench behind a guy who can break teams open and is a demon at the breakdown.

Now, if both of them could stay fit, and if George could regain his off-the-cuff mojo...

Taylor seems to have been injured for ages. It was good to see him back yesterday though Cruse, despite having an impossible mission has really thundered around the pitch and played heads up and eyes wide open stuff.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:35 pm 
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Gospel wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Gospel wrote:
Nieghorn wrote:
Margin_Walker wrote:
Likely to be revised, but ESPN have Simmonds at 24/0 on the tackle count, with the 3 tries and 95 metres made


Haven't watched, but does he play in the wide channels for Exeter like Read does for the ABs? Eddie doesn't employ BRs like that, does he?

Yes he plays wider. We saw in the 6N that he's sod all use against bigger men.


Not when you're tasked with running at them- would Read be any good? Billy V is, but it breaks him constantly.

There be truth in that. What makes Simmonds so effective is when he's allowed to play his natural game - but the same can be said for all the runners and riders in an and around England selection. It's being able to fit into Eddie's game plan that is the most important aspect.


Eddies plan is struggling a bit, neither hughes nor billy can take the punishment- not sure anybody can play pure smash mouth rugby in the modern era.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:43 pm 
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DragsterDriver wrote:
Eddies plan is struggling a bit, neither hughes nor billy can take the punishment- not sure anybody can play pure smash mouth rugby in the modern era.

Perhaps I am being unfair but I often feel that Eddie falls back into a stereotypical view of English rugby and English people in general where he's trying to play a muscular game with guys from broken homes or Southern Hemisphere imports as the posh twats don't have the grit to get it done.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:58 pm 
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Gospel wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Eddies plan is struggling a bit, neither hughes nor billy can take the punishment- not sure anybody can play pure smash mouth rugby in the modern era.

Perhaps I am being unfair but I often feel that Eddie falls back into a stereotypical view of English rugby and English people in general where he's trying to play a muscular game with guys from broken homes or Southern Hemisphere imports as the posh twats don't have the grit to get it done.


Spot on. It's all about the street fighters with a sprinkling of SH imports to up the skill level. Frankly offensive stuff


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:04 pm 
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I think the problem is that when you have a fit billy mowing teams down it really is formidable, it's just completely unsustainable and without him (no offence to hughes) the gameplan collapses.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:12 pm 
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DragsterDriver wrote:
I think the problem is that when you have a fit billy mowing teams down it really is formidable, it's just completely unsustainable and without him (no offence to hughes) the gameplan collapses.


You'd have hoped that an experienced international coach would have been able to work that out fairly quickly and adapt the game plan accordingly.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:13 pm 
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ovalball wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
I think the problem is that when you have a fit billy mowing teams down it really is formidable, it's just completely unsustainable and without him (no offence to hughes) the gameplan collapses.


You'd have hoped that an experienced international coach would have been able to work that out fairly quickly and adapt the game plan accordingly.


I've still got a lot of faith in edward, he's earned that- but he's got some painful decisions to make selection wise...and maybe coaching too,


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:16 pm 
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DragsterDriver wrote:
ovalball wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
I think the problem is that when you have a fit billy mowing teams down it really is formidable, it's just completely unsustainable and without him (no offence to hughes) the gameplan collapses.


You'd have hoped that an experienced international coach would have been able to work that out fairly quickly and adapt the game plan accordingly.


I've still got a lot of faith in edward, he's earned that- but he's got some painful decisions to make selection wise...and maybe coaching too,


We kept winning when Hughes was playing 60+...

If Eddie has been beasting them, with a focus on conditioning rather than peaking for games, they'll have lacked explosive power. Yes, we could do with some more carriers, but it's not unrealistic to think that Genge, LCD and Sink could be easily introduced. Even picking Haskell over Lawes gives a better tight carrier, and massively improves our ruck security, which is really where we were beaten for most the games. Add in a Hughes or BV at 8, rather than Simmonds, and I think we tip back quite easily onto the winning games side of things.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:23 pm 
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Raggs wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
ovalball wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
I think the problem is that when you have a fit billy mowing teams down it really is formidable, it's just completely unsustainable and without him (no offence to hughes) the gameplan collapses.


You'd have hoped that an experienced international coach would have been able to work that out fairly quickly and adapt the game plan accordingly.


I've still got a lot of faith in edward, he's earned that- but he's got some painful decisions to make selection wise...and maybe coaching too,


We kept winning when Hughes was playing 60+...

If Eddie has been beasting them, with a focus on conditioning rather than peaking for games, they'll have lacked explosive power. Yes, we could do with some more carriers, but it's not unrealistic to think that Genge, LCD and Sink could be easily introduced. Even picking Haskell over Lawes gives a better tight carrier, and massively improves our ruck security, which is really where we were beaten for most the games. Add in a Hughes or BV at 8, rather than Simmonds, and I think we tip back quite easily onto the winning games side of things.


Colour me Unconvinced. Especially while he is still picking Hartley and Cole in the squad - and while he is also ignoring more dynamic back row options. I'd be more convinced if the touring party is a bit less conservative than he's proven to be so far.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:42 pm 
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We picked potentially the most dynamic backrow available in Simmonds, but when it came to playing international rugby it looked like some more bosh could have been a better idea...


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:44 pm 
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ovalball wrote:
I'd be more convinced if the touring party is a bit less conservative than he's proven to be so far.


+1


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:00 pm 
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Raggs wrote:
We picked potentially the most dynamic backrow available in Simmonds, but when it came to playing international rugby it looked like some more bosh could have been a better idea...


Balance- the side was lacking carriers.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:01 pm 
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Raggs wrote:
We picked potentially the most dynamic backrow available in Simmonds, but when it came to playing international rugby it looked like some more bosh could have been a better idea...


Think it's pretty clear he's not a 6N starting 8.

That said, he'd be useful on the bench against tired legs and I'd have him starting at 7 ahead of someone like Underhill (who seemed in line for it) any day of the week.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:40 pm 
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Raggs wrote:
We picked potentially the most dynamic backrow available in Simmonds, but when it came to playing international rugby it looked like some more bosh could have been a better idea...


But was it with the correct game plan - you can't use Simmonds as a bosher - and did we have the right balance in personnel - simply putting Simmonds in at 8, and not changing anything else, is poor management.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:14 pm 
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RodneyRegis wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
As long as lcd throws the ball in reasonably he’s head and shoulders above the competition.


Yep. Big if though. He always looks great until the pressure is on. It's a problem.


Remember Hartley was a very inconsistent thrower in his early years. Now that is a hugely dependable aspect of his game.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:16 pm 
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Gospel wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Gospel wrote:
Nieghorn wrote:
Margin_Walker wrote:
Likely to be revised, but ESPN have Simmonds at 24/0 on the tackle count, with the 3 tries and 95 metres made


Haven't watched, but does he play in the wide channels for Exeter like Read does for the ABs? Eddie doesn't employ BRs like that, does he?

Yes he plays wider. We saw in the 6N that he's sod all use against bigger men.


Not when you're tasked with running at them- would Read be any good? Billy V is, but it breaks him constantly.

There be truth in that. What makes Simmonds so effective is when he's allowed to play his natural game - but the same can be said for all the runners and riders in an and around England selection. It's being able to fit into Eddie's game plan that is the most important aspect.


Which is a problem when you have rigid coach whose gameplan comes before picking the best team rather then placing in the most effective gameplan for the bets players.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:20 pm 
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ovalball wrote:
Colour me Unconvinced. Especially while he is still picking Hartley and Cole in the squad - and while he is also ignoring more dynamic back row options. I'd be more convinced if the touring party is a bit less conservative than he's proven to be so far.


There is something ironic that the RFU managed to pick the one Australian coach who is committed to crash ball early 90's England style and has ignored how professionalism has reduced the effectiveness of that massively.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:22 pm 
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eldanielfire wrote:
RodneyRegis wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
As long as lcd throws the ball in reasonably he’s head and shoulders above the competition.


Yep. Big if though. He always looks great until the pressure is on. It's a problem.


Remember Hartley was a very inconsistent thrower in his early years. Now that is a hugely dependable aspect of his game.


You sure about that?

LCD is nearly 25 anyway - that's a bit old to throw like a twat.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:31 pm 
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fatcat wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
RodneyRegis wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
As long as lcd throws the ball in reasonably he’s head and shoulders above the competition.


Yep. Big if though. He always looks great until the pressure is on. It's a problem.


Remember Hartley was a very inconsistent thrower in his early years. Now that is a hugely dependable aspect of his game.


You sure about that?

LCD is nearly 25 anyway - that's a bit old to throw like a twat.


Yeah. He was rated for his scrummaging rather than his line-outs in the Johnson years.

EDIT: Even in 2012 people were complaining Hartley's lineouts were an issue:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1777&p=53942&hilit=hartley+lineouts#p53942


Last edited by eldanielfire on Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:33 pm 
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Raggs wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
ovalball wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
I think the problem is that when you have a fit billy mowing teams down it really is formidable, it's just completely unsustainable and without him (no offence to hughes) the gameplan collapses.


You'd have hoped that an experienced international coach would have been able to work that out fairly quickly and adapt the game plan accordingly.


I've still got a lot of faith in edward, he's earned that- but he's got some painful decisions to make selection wise...and maybe coaching too,


We kept winning when Hughes was playing 60+...

If Eddie has been beasting them, with a focus on conditioning rather than peaking for games, they'll have lacked explosive power. Yes, we could do with some more carriers, but it's not unrealistic to think that Genge, LCD and Sink could be easily introduced. Even picking Haskell over Lawes gives a better tight carrier, and massively improves our ruck security, which is really where we were beaten for most the games. Add in a Hughes or BV at 8, rather than Simmonds, and I think we tip back quite easily onto the winning games side of things.


I agree, but I don't want to tip back to winning games narrowly. I'd rather aim much higher.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:33 pm 
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Bristol to be rebranded Bristol Bears apparently.

Suggestions Gloucester could do likewise but as the Gloucester Lions

source: that RugbyInsideLine plum on twitter


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:49 pm 
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eldanielfire wrote:
fatcat wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
RodneyRegis wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
As long as lcd throws the ball in reasonably he’s head and shoulders above the competition.


Yep. Big if though. He always looks great until the pressure is on. It's a problem.


Remember Hartley was a very inconsistent thrower in his early years. Now that is a hugely dependable aspect of his game.


You sure about that?

LCD is nearly 25 anyway - that's a bit old to throw like a twat.


Yeah. He was rated for his scrummaging rather than his line-outs in the Johnson years.

EDIT: Even in 2012 people were complaining Hartley's lineouts were an issue:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1777&p=53942&hilit=hartley+lineouts#p53942


Ahh, LTVG syndrome from 6 years ago.


I found this gem on that thread -

Quote:
Go ahead and take Robshaw out of your team for a match, see how well that works out. I'm willing to bet that the loss of a player who is an immense tackler, a great ball-carrier, one of the most important leaders and is an absolute machine for the full 80 would have some sort of an effect on the team.


Well I wonder which poster wrote that!


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:36 pm 
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fatcat wrote:

Ahh, LTVG syndrome from 6 years ago.


I found this gem on that thread -

Quote:
Go ahead and take Robshaw out of your team for a match, see how well that works out. I'm willing to bet that the loss of a player who is an immense tackler, a great ball-carrier, one of the most important leaders and is an absolute machine for the full 80 would have some sort of an effect on the team.


Well I wonder which poster wrote that!



You are mean! :lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:00 am 
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I know this will get shot down in flames, but I will put it out there. Does Simmonds have the gas to play at inside centre ? Or Joe Coka for that matter. I can't see Manu staying fit for long enough. Simmonds isn't an international 8 but could see him in a back row with say Billy and Rhodes or Willis.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:12 am 
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TopNacker wrote:
I know this will get shot down in flames, but I will put it out there. Does Simmonds have the gas to play at inside centre ? Or Joe Coka for that matter. I can't see Manu staying fit for long enough. Simmonds isn't an international 8 but could see him in a back row with say Billy and Rhodes or Willis.


If you want someone get get over the gainline and not be relied upon to play like a footballing centre, why not just go with someone who actually plays inside centre, like Barritt or Sam Hill? Would even go Burrell or Banahan before trying to convert a flanker at this stage in his career.

Mallinder has the size...


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:10 am 
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matta25 wrote:
Bristol to be rebranded Bristol Bears apparently.

Suggestions Gloucester could do likewise but as the Gloucester Lions

source: that RugbyInsideLine plum on twitter


That's going to make your usual holiday googling tougher, no?


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