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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:12 pm 
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plum-pudding wrote:
Margin_Walker wrote:
Not really sure why they Eddie took Cokanasiga on tour. With 5 wingers on tour and two tests, he'd always be struggling to get on the pitch unless they are planning a complete rotation of some sort for the second test.

Good experience being around the setup, but reckon he would have gained more from getting some extended game-time at the JWC

He's taken Joe, Solomona and Earle to see who can fulfil the 'fatty on the wing' quota (not literally), they are all young and I expect he thinks he can get a good idea of their raw potential from just training (though games would help).

I'm a bit disappointed neither Haley, Watson, Daly are there to be trialed at fb- not sure you would want Loz/Mallinder or Slade there though- though they can hardly be much worse than Brown (except maybe in positioning).


Will be interesting to see if Watson gets the nod at FB for the Lions on Saturday. He'd be my preference for England from the established options.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:15 pm 
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Margin_Walker wrote:
plum-pudding wrote:
Margin_Walker wrote:
Not really sure why they Eddie took Cokanasiga on tour. With 5 wingers on tour and two tests, he'd always be struggling to get on the pitch unless they are planning a complete rotation of some sort for the second test.

Good experience being around the setup, but reckon he would have gained more from getting some extended game-time at the JWC

He's taken Joe, Solomona and Earle to see who can fulfil the 'fatty on the wing' quota (not literally), they are all young and I expect he thinks he can get a good idea of their raw potential from just training (though games would help).

I'm a bit disappointed neither Haley, Watson, Daly are there to be trialed at fb- not sure you would want Loz/Mallinder or Slade there though- though they can hardly be much worse than Brown (except maybe in positioning).


Will be interesting to see if Watson gets the nod at FB for the Lions on Saturday. He'd be my preference for England from the established options.

I'd be amazed if he is named above 1/2p (though I'd argue the Lions need to roll the dice at this stage).
Having said that, if there's one good thing I hope comes out of this tour from an English perspective, it would be to see if Watson (or Daly) can cope at the highest level at fb


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:17 pm 
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plum-pudding wrote:
Margin_Walker wrote:
Not really sure why they Eddie took Cokanasiga on tour. With 5 wingers on tour and two tests, he'd always be struggling to get on the pitch unless they are planning a complete rotation of some sort for the second test.

Good experience being around the setup, but reckon he would have gained more from getting some extended game-time at the JWC

He's taken Joe, Solomona and Earle to see who can fulfil the 'fatty on the wing' quota (not literally), they are all young and I expect he thinks he can get a good idea of their raw potential from just training (though games would help).

I'm a bit disappointed neither Haley, Watson, Daly are there to be trialed at fb- not sure you would want Loz/Mallinder or Slade there though- though they can hardly be much worse than Brown (except maybe in positioning).

Collier a fair shout, though Williams did pretty well and was clearly tired by the end when the scrums went downhill- I'd argue he has more potential too.


I don't think he's willing to sacrifice any part of the spine of the team in such a callow squad.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:17 pm 
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plum-pudding wrote:
I'd be amazed if he is named above 1/2p (though I'd argue the Lions need to roll the dice at this stage).
Having said that, if there's one good thing I hope comes out of this tour from an English perspective, it would be to see if Watson (or Daly) can cope at the highest level at fb


:lol:

Completely forgot about 1/2p. As you were...


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:27 pm 
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I thought Watson was decent against the Crusaders, although I'm not sure how he'll overcome not being Welsh to get in the test team.

Re: Autumn internationals, didn't Eddie say he'd give the Lions them off, or did I imagine it?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:41 pm 
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11 November 2017 England v Argentina
18 November 2017 England v Australia
25 November 2017 England v Samoa

I can see Samoa and Argentina cycled around with players. Australia for Eddie will be the first team barring injury though.

I could never imagine Eddie passing up the opportunity to get one over the wallabies.


Last edited by Wendigo7 on Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:42 pm 
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plum-pudding wrote:
Team for the second test then?
I have mixed feelings tbh- I really think it would be a good idea to give most of these players a second go and see how they progress with more time together in combo's and perhaps in a more structured game (if that happens).
I would be OK with guys like Curry dropping out (given his age), but we could really do with Slade getting another go having waited so long.

Genge
Hartley
Williams
Launch
Ewels
Wilson (how can you drop him?)
Underhill
Hughes
Care
Ford
May
Loz
Slade
Yarde
Brown (eeeeehhhh)

I would expect Robshaw to start though (with Underhill), and I expect Loz will drop out for Francis. I don't think Eddie will risk Solomona starting- though using this test to play someone new on the wing might be a reasonable idea (maybe Fiji Joe or Earle?)- Yarde was decent though, fair play.
In a way, it would be nice if this were a three test series, there may be a few who miss out on any opportunity- Mallinder, Armand, James...
Would like to see a bit more of Maunder.


I watched the first test again this afternoon as an antidote to the cricket - so much to enjoy in the rugby. I don't think your team will be far off given the need to keep a few wise old heads (including Ford at 24!) in the spine of the team.

I would definitely play Wilson again and (if fit) bring Underhill in for Curry (not a dropping obvisly). I agree that Eddie may look at replacing one of the wingmen - Earle seems the most likely option?? Both Yarde and May got through some good work and were keen to roll their sleeves up, so again, purely for educational reasons.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:54 pm 
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As an afterthought, I may have mentioned elsewhere that I was not convinced George Ford in for Freddie Burns was good business for Tiggers. Saturday's performance cheered me up no end and re-watching has confirmed my increasing optimism, though I'm still concerned about the backup whilst he's away with England.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:07 pm 
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The second test side would be a mix of continuity and experimentation for me:

1. Genge
2. Hartley
3. Williams
4. Launchbury
5. Ewels
6. Wilson
7. Underhill
8. Hughes
9. Care
10. Ford
11. Earle
12. Francis
13. Slade
14. Solomona
15. Lozowski

16. Singleton
17. Mullan
18. Collier
19. Isiekwe
20. B. Curry
21. Maunder
22. Mallinder
23. Cokanasiga

I'd sooner develop Wilson as Robshaw's understudy rather than bringing Robshaw straight back in. Tom Curry showed enough last week and against the Barbarians to warrant further inclusion in the EPS so Underhill and Ben Curry (off the bench) get a chance.

Lozowski at 15 is a gamble, but one worth taking. Also frees up the 12 shirt to take a more detailed look at Francis after a very decent cameo last week.

I'd like to see Maunder get longer (20mins or more).

Harsh on Yarde and May but we know what we're going to get from them so let's give the new boys a chance to play.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:22 pm 
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Telegraph have Robshaw and Francis coming in. Francis at 12 and Robshaw at 6 in place of Wilson. Underhill to the bench.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:36 pm 
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Loz
played fullback a fair bit at Carnegie


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:39 pm 
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Margin_Walker wrote:
Telegraph have Robshaw and Francis coming in. Francis at 12 and Robshaw at 6 in place of Wilson. Underhill to the bench.

I was close then! thought Underhill would start though... Curry must have made an impression then- see what he can do with a more experienced international backrow :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:40 pm 
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Very harsh on Wilson if that's the case. I don't really see what we gain from bringing Robshaw back in?

He'd still be my first choice 6, but we need to develop a recognised second choice and after two excellent performances, Wilson deserves more time to put himself in that position.

He may well have done so already, but another good game would probably have cemented that.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:42 pm 
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Scrumhead wrote:
Very harsh on Wilson if that's the case. I don't really see what we gain from bringing Robshaw back in?

He'd still be my first choice 6, but we need to develop a recognised second choice and after two excellent performances, Wilson deserves more time to put himself in that position.

He may well have done so already, but another good game would probably have cemented that.

Will be interesting to see if he's on the bench (at the expense of Isiekwe?)
We still don't know which Curry will start now it comes to it...


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:08 pm 
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Well to be fair, Ben Curry had the better season with Sale and was originally in line to be on the bench in the Barbarians game. He must be absolutely itching to show what he can do.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:12 pm 
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Scrumhead wrote:
Very harsh on Wilson if that's the case. I don't really see what we gain from bringing Robshaw back in?

He'd still be my first choice 6, but we need to develop a recognised second choice and after two excellent performances, Wilson deserves more time to put himself in that position.

He may well have done so already, but another good game would probably have cemented that.


Tough one. Eddie wants to win and knows the more experience he can pack in there the better. But Wilson deserves better than to be dropped from the squad, unless this is a "I've seen what I need to see" situation.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:14 pm 
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JM2K6 wrote:
Scrumhead wrote:
Very harsh on Wilson if that's the case. I don't really see what we gain from bringing Robshaw back in?

He'd still be my first choice 6, but we need to develop a recognised second choice and after two excellent performances, Wilson deserves more time to put himself in that position.

He may well have done so already, but another good game would probably have cemented that.


Tough one. Eddie wants to win and knows the more experience he can pack in there the better. But Wilson deserves better than to be dropped from the squad, unless this is a "I've seen what I need to see" situation.

The question is what has he seen..
A player capable of backing up Robshaw to the next WC, pushing for a starting spot, not good enough...


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:16 pm 
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Personally I was hoping another good performance from Wilson would have put the nail in the coffin for Tom Wood's hopes of another recall.

As you say, Eddie may be thinking 'I've seen what I need to see' but I feel Wilson's performances in the last two games should be rewarded with more time.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:20 pm 
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plum-pudding wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
Scrumhead wrote:
Very harsh on Wilson if that's the case. I don't really see what we gain from bringing Robshaw back in?

He'd still be my first choice 6, but we need to develop a recognised second choice and after two excellent performances, Wilson deserves more time to put himself in that position.

He may well have done so already, but another good game would probably have cemented that.


Tough one. Eddie wants to win and knows the more experience he can pack in there the better. But Wilson deserves better than to be dropped from the squad, unless this is a "I've seen what I need to see" situation.

The question is what has he seen..
A player capable of backing up Robshaw to the next WC, pushing for a starting spot, not good enough...


Eddie's already made a point of praising Wilson's performances and attitude so I'd imagine that he's definitely shown he is capable of being Robshaw's understudy.

Barring injury, Robshaw is a key part of the side, so I don't think anyone is even remotely suggesting Wilson replaces him, but closing out the tour with another start would be the right kind of recognition for a sterling effort.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:50 am 
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It all depends on the message Eddie is giving behnid closed doors, based on the bloated nature of the squad he clearly wanted to have a long look at a number of players and gametime or lack thereof doesnt necessarily reflect a players place in the pecking order.

If he says to Wilson (for example) you've shown me enough, you're in the EPS and will play in the AIs (hasnt he promised to rest his Lions?) now I want to look at Underhill in a test match

Then fair enough imo


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:09 pm 
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When's the team announced??


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:39 pm 
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What's everyone's view on Ewels? Does he have a chance to usurp one of Lawes, Kruis, Itoje or Launch for regular contention? Obviously it's the toughest ask in English rugby, currently...


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:56 pm 
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Hawk97 wrote:
What's everyone's view on Ewels? Does he have a chance to usurp one of Lawes, Kruis, Itoje or Launch for regular contention? Obviously it's the toughest ask in English rugby, currently...


they should ban people from playing 2nd row for a few years.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:44 pm 
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Hawk97 wrote:
What's everyone's view on Ewels? Does he have a chance to usurp one of Lawes, Kruis, Itoje or Launch for regular contention? Obviously it's the toughest ask in English rugby, currently...

I think the answer is probably no. Hard working lock and probably would have started had he been born 5-10yrs previous.

Isiekwe, now we can talk.
Some say he's been giving lineout lessons to scab-nose and is currently reteaching Ford how to place-kick...
:thumbup:


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:51 pm 
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I was impressed with Ewels against the Baabaas. Might not have the X-factor to get ahead of those currently ahead of him, but he certainly looks an able option to me.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:29 pm 
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Hawk97 wrote:
What's everyone's view on Ewels? Does he have a chance to usurp one of Lawes, Kruis, Itoje or Launch for regular contention? Obviously it's the toughest ask in English rugby, currently...


He's no Louis Deacon.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:03 pm 
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Image

No discussion of the team?
Decent enough lineup, Curry unfortunate to not even make the bench, and I would've liked to see Collier start. Looking forward to Underhill and Francis though :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:08 pm 
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I don't think there's any concern that Jones didn't think Curry's performance was good, seems much more likely to be a case of "I know what I need to know about him, need to see more from wUnderhill.

Hope Maunder gets more of a look in this one, would like to see someone at 9 under Eddie who isn't Danny Care or Ben Youngs for a stretch


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:09 pm 
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I can understand why brown and Robshaw are in the team but I am a little disappointed. While they will be able to mentor the younger less experienced guys, and keep a core leaderships group continuing from the 6N, I would have liked to see Wilson again and someone else in the 15 shirt.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:12 pm 
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These anti-Quins sentiments will not be tolerated :x


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:14 pm 
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bacon2 wrote:
I can understand why brown and Robshaw are in the team but I am a little disappointed. While they will be able to mentor the younger less experienced guys, and keep a core leaderships group continuing from the 6N, I would have liked to see Wilson again and someone else in the 15 shirt.


i think the idea is generally to pick the best players, rather than giving someone else a go for a change.

you don't take a 60? cap former england captain to argentina for him to sit in the stands.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:28 pm 
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Eddie Jones wrote:
armchair pundit wrote:
bacon2 wrote:
I can understand why brown and Robshaw are in the team but I am a little disappointed. While they will be able to mentor the younger less experienced guys, and keep a core leaderships group continuing from the 6N, I would have liked to see Wilson again and someone else in the 15 shirt.


i think the idea is generally to pick the best players, rather than giving someone else a go for a change.

you don't take a 60? cap former england captain to argentina for him to sit in the stands.

I was hoping he would have been called up for the Lions by now
:shock:


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:33 pm 
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Chuckles1188 wrote:
I don't think there's any concern that Jones didn't think Curry's performance was good, seems much more likely to be a case of "I know what I need to know about him, need to see more from wUnderhill.

Hope Maunder gets more of a look in this one, would like to see someone at 9 under Eddie who isn't Danny Care or Ben Youngs for a stretch


Yes, Curry must be int he squad for the AIs.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:35 pm 
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RodneyRegis wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
I don't think there's any concern that Jones didn't think Curry's performance was good, seems much more likely to be a case of "I know what I need to know about him, need to see more from wUnderhill.

Hope Maunder gets more of a look in this one, would like to see someone at 9 under Eddie who isn't Danny Care or Ben Youngs for a stretch


Yes, Curry must be int he squad for the AIs.


I expect he will be, though may not end up making it into a 23 by that stage. On the other hand if Eddie is serious about resting Lions tourists, he might well do


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:36 pm 
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RodneyRegis wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
I don't think there's any concern that Jones didn't think Curry's performance was good, seems much more likely to be a case of "I know what I need to know about him, need to see more from wUnderhill.

Hope Maunder gets more of a look in this one, would like to see someone at 9 under Eddie who isn't Danny Care or Ben Youngs for a stretch


Yes, Curry must be int he squad for the AIs.


I'd not be so sure. He looked good, but Kvesic was left out due to not being physical enough, especially in the carry. Curry was good, but in physicality terms he lost out a fair bit. Underhill on the other hand, was putting in some very solid shots against the Baabaas. Currys are very good, and very young, I reckon they'll be left to develop (maybe in the fringe EPS) with significant contact from Eddie as they improve.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:18 pm 
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Raggs wrote:
RodneyRegis wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
I don't think there's any concern that Jones didn't think Curry's performance was good, seems much more likely to be a case of "I know what I need to know about him, need to see more from wUnderhill.

Hope Maunder gets more of a look in this one, would like to see someone at 9 under Eddie who isn't Danny Care or Ben Youngs for a stretch


Yes, Curry must be int he squad for the AIs.


I'd not be so sure. He looked good, but Kvesic was left out due to not being physical enough, especially in the carry. Curry was good, but in physicality terms he lost out a fair bit. Underhill on the other hand, was putting in some very solid shots against the Baabaas. Currys are very good, and very young, I reckon they'll be left to develop (maybe in the fringe EPS) with significant contact from Eddie as they improve.


Does Eddie really care about physicality when carrying? Kvesic in SA showed a lack of athleticism around the park and missed a heap of tackles, and Eddie cares most about physicality in cleanouts as far as I can tell. Curry was putting in some big tackles at important times.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:33 pm 
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Raggs wrote:
RodneyRegis wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
I don't think there's any concern that Jones didn't think Curry's performance was good, seems much more likely to be a case of "I know what I need to know about him, need to see more from wUnderhill.

Hope Maunder gets more of a look in this one, would like to see someone at 9 under Eddie who isn't Danny Care or Ben Youngs for a stretch


Yes, Curry must be int he squad for the AIs.


I'd not be so sure. He looked good, but Kvesic was left out due to not being physical enough, especially in the carry. Curry was good, but in physicality terms he lost out a fair bit. Underhill on the other hand, was putting in some very solid shots against the Baabaas. Currys are very good, and very young, I reckon they'll be left to develop (maybe in the fringe EPS) with significant contact from Eddie as they improve.


I meant more in light of Lions missing. I don't think he'd be in the first choice 23, but squad without Hask? Probably.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:45 pm 
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JM2K6 wrote:
Raggs wrote:
RodneyRegis wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
I don't think there's any concern that Jones didn't think Curry's performance was good, seems much more likely to be a case of "I know what I need to know about him, need to see more from wUnderhill.

Hope Maunder gets more of a look in this one, would like to see someone at 9 under Eddie who isn't Danny Care or Ben Youngs for a stretch


Yes, Curry must be int he squad for the AIs.


I'd not be so sure. He looked good, but Kvesic was left out due to not being physical enough, especially in the carry. Curry was good, but in physicality terms he lost out a fair bit. Underhill on the other hand, was putting in some very solid shots against the Baabaas. Currys are very good, and very young, I reckon they'll be left to develop (maybe in the fringe EPS) with significant contact from Eddie as they improve.


Does Eddie really care about physicality when carrying? Kvesic in SA showed a lack of athleticism around the park and missed a heap of tackles, and Eddie cares most about physicality in cleanouts as far as I can tell. Curry was putting in some big tackles at important times.

These guys have just turned 19 and it's over 5 months to November. They will be bigger :lol:


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 12:02 pm 
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Well done to the ladies in beating NZ :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 12:10 pm 
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Anonymous. wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
Raggs wrote:
RodneyRegis wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
I don't think there's any concern that Jones didn't think Curry's performance was good, seems much more likely to be a case of "I know what I need to know about him, need to see more from wUnderhill.

Hope Maunder gets more of a look in this one, would like to see someone at 9 under Eddie who isn't Danny Care or Ben Youngs for a stretch


Yes, Curry must be int he squad for the AIs.


I'd not be so sure. He looked good, but Kvesic was left out due to not being physical enough, especially in the carry. Curry was good, but in physicality terms he lost out a fair bit. Underhill on the other hand, was putting in some very solid shots against the Baabaas. Currys are very good, and very young, I reckon they'll be left to develop (maybe in the fringe EPS) with significant contact from Eddie as they improve.


Does Eddie really care about physicality when carrying? Kvesic in SA showed a lack of athleticism around the park and missed a heap of tackles, and Eddie cares most about physicality in cleanouts as far as I can tell. Curry was putting in some big tackles at important times.

These guys have just turned 19 and it's over 5 months to November. They will be bigger :lol:


Physicality at the breakdown and tackle has been much more a concern than carrying so far. If Mako starts this next season over Marler the balance shifts from last season more in favour tackling and breakdown being the areas of concern at 7, if George and Sinckler push for more starts it'll reinforce that all the more


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