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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:16 pm 
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Wendigo7 wrote:
With Ford's form in England jersey being so strong... I wonder if Jones has the bottle to drop Farrell and go:

10. Ford
12. Teo
13. Joseph

?


I think it's far more likely that Farrell is the first name on the team sheet.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:22 pm 
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fatcat wrote:
Wendigo7 wrote:
With Ford's form in England jersey being so strong... I wonder if Jones has the bottle to drop Farrell and go:

10. Ford
12. Teo
13. Joseph

?


I think it's far more likely that Farrell is the first name on the team sheet.


It's Wendigo. Give it 2 weeks and he'll want James Lang at 10.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:23 pm 
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:lol:


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:25 pm 
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Ford fantastic again as was Launch and Robslow. Care did well, we got the obligatory kick out on the full. Another spirited win.

From what I've seen on this mini tour Wilson looks better than Wonderhill, as does Curry.

Hughes was quieter today. The centres were awful. Slade has missed his opportunity.

Really disappointed Yarde got 2 starts. He shouldn't have been on the tour, we've seen enough of his mediocrity. The Argies favourite line of attack was down their left wing, they got Yarde sussed. This was a missed opportunity to start Solomona. What was the point of Joe Coka and Earle ? May didn't see much of the ball but managed to get in the way a bit in defence, and is a good backup flanker according to Mako's arse.

Wanted to see more of Isiekwe and Mallinder.

Hartley is becoming a liability.

Props to Collier ( did you see what I did there ?)

Great tour, very exciting games. Eddie will have ruled some in and ruled some out. Onwards.


Last edited by TopNacker on Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:27 pm 
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Dirty Quims doing the business for England in Argentina. I feel unclean after cheering them all on. At least Yarde gave me the opportunity to excise some visceral hatred though even that abated after realising that it was Hartley who was most to blame. :(


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:34 pm 
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bacon2 wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
I prefer Loz just for a bit more bite in the tackle and the speed he has, plus he's familiar with Sarries' defensive patterns. We'll see how Francis gets on with Saints.

e: And Exeter have an actually good young 10 lining up to replace Steenson...


I forgot - brother of the very good young 8 isn't it?


With that being the case, it puts Slades position in even more peril.


what puts slade's position in peril is that he's not cut out for international rugby.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:34 pm 
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Saint wrote:
bacon2 wrote:
Is it official what position Francis has been signed to play for at saints?

Will it be him or Mallinder at 10/12, or will Mallinder be at 15? (A bit mute as one injury could de-rail any plans.)


Well, if it isn't 10 we're a bit short of options there. Mallinder definitely isn't a 10, despite covering there for the two European qualifier matches. I still think he's a 12, but we'll see how that pans out; we have a LOT of centres


Yeah, if he has any form whatsoever at 10, he'll be there.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:48 pm 
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After a shaky start to the first Test, Yarde ended up doing pretty well in that game. Was not good today and unlike some wings he will never recover a dodgy defensive situation. Ultimately he has too many weaknesses for international rugby, but let's not pretend he was dire in the first game and we couldn't pick an entire team of neophytes. Eddie blooded a ton of players and win the series two zip.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:57 pm 
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JM2K6 wrote:
After a shaky start to the first Test, Yarde ended up doing pretty well in that game. Was not good today and unlike some wings he will never recover a dodgy defensive situation. Ultimately he has too many weaknesses for international rugby, but let's not pretend he was dire in the first game and we couldn't pick an entire team of neophytes. Eddie blooded a ton of players and win the series two zip.


Likely to be his last cap though tbf.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 12:10 am 
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JM2K6 wrote:
After a shaky start to the first Test, Yarde ended up doing pretty well in that game. Was not good today and unlike some wings he will never recover a dodgy defensive situation. Ultimately he has too many weaknesses for international rugby, but let's not pretend he was dire in the first game and we couldn't pick an entire team of neophytes. Eddie blooded a ton of players and win the series two zip.


the reason for the guscott hate, suddenly seems so obvious.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:47 am 
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Well only one game, two if including the Baa Baas, but Underhill's a touch underwhelming after all the hype. Big tackles if you run at him, but wasn't offering too much else.

Nice cameo from Collier again. Agree re Slade, in danger of becoming a bit of a bits and pieces player. The odd lovely moment, but not sure he'll nail down an international spot. Better than Geraghty mind...


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:55 am 
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JM2K6 wrote:
plum-pudding wrote:
Got to say, I'm a little disappointed by the game- can't say exactly why, just underwhelmed.
It's no use sugarcoating it. Underhill was poor- he seems to drop off a lot of tackles, which is unacceptable.
He has the edge over curry in age, power and size right now, which Eddie will know, but it looks to me, that Curry is the more naturally gifted player. Like the difference between Smith and Haskell.

Frustrating to yet again, not see any progression in developing options at 9. I know we won the match, and Care made an important tackle off the scrum late on, but we needed to see if Maunder could play.

Lavanini (?) is a grub for that tackle on Hughes, could have done serious damage. I hope the law comes down on him (Lacey :x )

Please take Yarde and deposit him in the same skip as Timmy. Yarde the pea-heart.

Fair play Brown, at the ripe age of 31, he has learnt how to roll the ball out of the hands in the direction of a team-mate. Wonders never cease.

Past the 60 minute mark, we already know Hartley becomes as useless as a toothbrush in the loose (or as Cummins would say 'useless as a one armed brick layer in Baghdad'), so no more needs saying.

The two props have had a rough introduction to int rugby coming to Argentina, and probably made to look worse than they are- they will improve I have no doubt.

I think that could be the end of Slade's international career under Jones- I really do. Shame.


Yeah I really do think you need to lighten up ffs

More importantly the England coaching team had a good chance to look at players and decide if they were ready to play and if not what they needed to work on.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:01 am 
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bacon2 wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
bacon2 wrote:
Wendigo7 wrote:
Slade's too erratic to be an international player. :(

Shame because at times he's brilliant.

Francis didn't really have a great game either imo.


Directly responsible for one of their tries.

Loz carried far more effectively when he came on.

Seems to loose it a bit just before was replaced


Hmm. Francis carried twice for 16m, Loz twice for 6.


Happy to be corrected - I must have missed one of Francis's carries.

I would still have Loz above Francis, Francis promised so much with a really tidy cameo that i don't think he lived up to today

Slade is in a tricky position - do chiefs bite the bullet and sacrifice half a season for him to bed down at 10 (like they started to last season?) In the hope he is the long term replacement for steenson?

Or does he continue to rotate in and out of the centers with Hill, Devoto , Capinario (sp?) and Witten? Where he is not at all guaranteed for be 1st choice

Would have loved to see Slade playing exclusively as a fly-half last season. Don't want to see him playing in the centres at all this season.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:34 am 
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plum-pudding wrote:
bacon2 wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
I prefer Loz just for a bit more bite in the tackle and the speed he has, plus he's familiar with Sarries' defensive patterns. We'll see how Francis gets on with Saints.

e: And Exeter have an actually good young 10 lining up to replace Steenson...


I forgot - brother of the very good young 8 isn't it?


With that being the case, it puts Slades position in even more peril.

Simmonds (and the ex-Saint lad)


I thought Exeter had let Hooley go?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:20 am 
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So who gets added to the EPS this week then?

Underhill and Tom Curry - For me definites and I think he'll persevere with Underhill because he likes the kid. For Wood and Mike Williams.
Solomona - Possible but probably not. Maybe for Roko?
Collier - Yep. Very pleased to see him step up. For Nathan Catt.
Paul Hill to drop out for Harry Williams too?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:18 am 
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The young lad is Joe Simmonds, who is the younger brother of Sam (the one who scored the match winning try vs Sarries).

Think he's played for England U20s.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:28 am 
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i wonder whether eddie will backtrack and move robshaw to 7, with hughes, laws and itoje options for 6.

big argument in favour getting your best players on the pitch.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:30 am 
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armchair pundit wrote:
i wonder whether eddie will backtrack and move robshaw to 7, with hughes, laws and itoje options for 6.

big argument in favour getting your best players on the pitch.


No chance.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:59 am 
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englishchief wrote:
The young lad is Joe Simmonds, who is the younger brother of Sam (the one who scored the match winning try vs Sarries).

Think he's played for England U20s.


Joe Symonds played with considerable poise in the matches I saw him in. ( Anglo Welsh ?). Sam has the smarts to be a very good 8, if he puts on some size, or move to 7 if he doesn't.
With respect to the astonishing Brown break, has to be said that the Francis support line had SH play all over it. That is the area of instinctive positional play where we are still behind the Kiwis.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:06 am 
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jabberwocky wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
After a shaky start to the first Test, Yarde ended up doing pretty well in that game. Was not good today and unlike some wings he will never recover a dodgy defensive situation. Ultimately he has too many weaknesses for international rugby, but let's not pretend he was dire in the first game and we couldn't pick an entire team of neophytes. Eddie blooded a ton of players and win the series two zip.


Likely to be his last cap though tbf.


It should be. If we need that kind of player again I can't see why it shouldn't be Roko.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:13 am 
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Wendigo7 wrote:
So who gets added to the EPS this week then?

Underhill and Tom Curry - For me definites and I think he'll persevere with Underhill because he likes the kid. For Wood and Mike Williams.
Solomona - Possible but probably not. Maybe for Roko?
Collier - Yep. Very pleased to see him step up. For Nathan Catt.
Paul Hill to drop out for Harry Williams too?


TBH, with all of the injuries over the past year, I've lost track of who is actually in the EPS and who isn't!

I agree with you on Underhill and Tom Curry, but surely Wilson has earned himself a spot - he was immense last week and a prevented a certain try last night with some excellent defence. IIRC Will Evans was in the 45 EPS so Underhill for Wood, Wilson for Williams and Curry for Evans.

Not sure on the others though?

Solomona is a no for me. He might get better but he's way too poor in defence right now to be a serious option IMO. I'd far rather have Wade, but we all know that won't happen.

Collier and Williams have definitely put themselves in the frame. As you say, Paul Hill is almost certainly at risk but I'm not sure we'd replace a loosehead with a tighthead if Catt is the other loser? If it's a choice between Collier and Williams, I'd go with the former. His ability in the scrum is a potential weapon Williams can't match IMO.

Francis may well have played himself in to the squad too, possibly at the expense of Henry Slade. They're different players, but essentially they're competing for one spot. Francis' displays so far suggest he may be more consistently useful than Slade who brought the sublime and the ridiculous in equal measure in Argentina.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:16 am 
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DragsterDriver wrote:
armchair pundit wrote:
i wonder whether eddie will backtrack and move robshaw to 7, with hughes, laws and itoje options for 6.

big argument in favour getting your best players on the pitch.


No chance.


Zero.

Personally, I think Mark Wilson was the find of the tour and I wonder if Eddie would be tempted to use him alongside Robshaw?

I'd be concerned that they're both 6s and too similar, but it wouldn't be that much different to playing Haskell and Robshaw.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:16 am 
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JM2K6 wrote:
jabberwocky wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
After a shaky start to the first Test, Yarde ended up doing pretty well in that game. Was not good today and unlike some wings he will never recover a dodgy defensive situation. Ultimately he has too many weaknesses for international rugby, but let's not pretend he was dire in the first game and we couldn't pick an entire team of neophytes. Eddie blooded a ton of players and win the series two zip.


Likely to be his last cap though tbf.


It should be. If we need that kind of player again I can't see why it shouldn't be Roko.


I thought Yarde would turn out to be better than this. Can't win them all I suppose.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:29 am 
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Wilson as the new Haskell is something I would very much like to see. Don't think there's any area besides experience where Haskell has a major advantage over Wilson at this point


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:47 am 
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Chuckles1188 wrote:
Wilson as the new Haskell is something I would very much like to see. Don't think there's any area besides experience where Haskell has a major advantage over Wilson at this point

Quote:
Jones acknowledged the importance of experienced players on the tour such as George Ford, Mike Brown, Chris Robshaw and Joe Launchbury.

But a number of newcomers also impressed after helping England to only a second series whitewash against the World Cup semi-finalists.

"A few guys have done really well," Jones added. "Harry Williams, Charlie Ewels, Tom Curry and Sam Underhill at open-side flanker, Mark Wilson has proved himself to be a very competent player.

"In the back-line Piers Francis and Alex Lozowski are worth looking at, also Denny Solomona.

"Nathan Earle didn't play but we will keep looking at him as well."


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:49 am 
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Current EPS

45-man elite player squad:

Forwards

Josh Beaumont (Sale Sharks), Nathan Catt (Bath Rugby), Jack Clifford (Harlequins), Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs), Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby), Jamie George (Saracens), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), James Haskell (Wasps), Paul Hill (Northampton Saints), Nathan Hughes (Wasps), Maro Itoje (Saracens), Sam Jones (Wasps), George Kruis (Saracens), Joe Launchbury (Wasps), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Matt Mullan (Wasps), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins), Tommy Taylor (Wasps), Billy Vunipola (Saracens), Mako Vunipola (Saracens), Mike Williams (Leicester Tigers), Tom Wood (Northampton Saints).

Backs
Mike Brown (Harlequins), Danny Care (Harlequins), Elliot Daly (Wasps), Owen Farrell (Saracens), George Ford (Bath Rugby), Mike Haley (Sale Sharks), Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby), Alex Lozowski (Saracens), Joe Marchant (Harlequins), Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby), Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs), Dan Robson (Wasps), Semesa Rokoduguni (Bath Rugby), Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs), Ben Spencer (Saracens), Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors), Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers), Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby), Marland Yarde (Harlequins), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers).

Players at risk for me

Beaumont - Curry
Catt - Genge
Hill - Williams
Jones - Wilson
Williams - Underhill
Wood - Curry
Haley - ?
Roko - Solomona
Robson/Spencer - Maunder
Manu - Francis


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:53 am 
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Just watched and done ruck marks on Curry alone in the first test, will take a bit of a break and do the same for Underhill in the 2nd.

Brief notes though, he's not a physical carrying option in the slightest, and the lack of physicality pretty much goes through his game. He managed one stopping hit against a forward carrier (in 14 tackles), and I didn't see any good clearouts in rucks. His worst moment would have to be his failure to clear out the Argie 9 off of Hughes in the messy ruck. Likes to overrun the rucks a lot, but didn't take many people out the game with it (which is half the point).

Very good in getting turnovers when fresh though, quick back on his feet to attack the ball, unfortunately I believe tacklers rights are getting removed, and unless he's making big tackles, he'll be on the wrong side to continue to take advantage of that.

May have to go back and do one for Wilson though, noticed him a lot.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:53 am 
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Madness wrote:
Current EPS

45-man elite player squad:

Forwards

Josh Beaumont (Sale Sharks), Nathan Catt (Bath Rugby), Jack Clifford (Harlequins), Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs), Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby), Jamie George (Saracens), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), James Haskell (Wasps), Paul Hill (Northampton Saints), Nathan Hughes (Wasps), Maro Itoje (Saracens), Sam Jones (Wasps), George Kruis (Saracens), Joe Launchbury (Wasps), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Matt Mullan (Wasps), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins), Tommy Taylor (Wasps), Billy Vunipola (Saracens), Mako Vunipola (Saracens), Mike Williams (Leicester Tigers), Tom Wood (Northampton Saints).

Backs
Mike Brown (Harlequins), Danny Care (Harlequins), Elliot Daly (Wasps), Owen Farrell (Saracens), George Ford (Bath Rugby), Mike Haley (Sale Sharks), Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby), Alex Lozowski (Saracens), Joe Marchant (Harlequins), Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby), Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs), Dan Robson (Wasps), Semesa Rokoduguni (Bath Rugby), Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs), Ben Spencer (Saracens), Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors), Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers), Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby), Marland Yarde (Harlequins), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers).

Players at risk for me

Beaumont - Curry
Catt - Genge
Hill - Williams
Jones - Wilson
Williams - Underhill
Wood - Curry
Haley - ?
Roko - Solomona
Robson/Spencer - Maunder
Manu - Francis


no place for Collier?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:58 am 
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Raggs wrote:
Just watched and done ruck marks on Curry alone in the first test, will take a bit of a break and do the same for Underhill in the 2nd.

Brief notes though, he's not a physical carrying option in the slightest, and the lack of physicality pretty much goes through his game. He managed one stopping hit against a forward carrier (in 14 tackles), and I didn't see any good clearouts in rucks. His worst moment would have to be his failure to clear out the Argie 9 off of Hughes in the messy ruck. Likes to overrun the rucks a lot, but didn't take many people out the game with it (which is half the point).

Very good in getting turnovers when fresh though, quick back on his feet to attack the ball, unfortunately I believe tacklers rights are getting removed, and unless he's making big tackles, he'll be on the wrong side to continue to take advantage of that.

May have to go back and do one for Wilson though, noticed him a lot.


Curry's not going to be in the EPS soon, he's still very much a baby (has he turned 19 yet?). But given some time to develop he could be fearsome indeed. Outside chance of a bench spot by RWC2019, more likely he's the new Maro and will start to show what he can really offer after that point


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:02 am 
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Mick Mannock wrote:
Madness wrote:
Current EPS

45-man elite player squad:

Forwards

Josh Beaumont (Sale Sharks), Nathan Catt (Bath Rugby), Jack Clifford (Harlequins), Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs), Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby), Jamie George (Saracens), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), James Haskell (Wasps), Paul Hill (Northampton Saints), Nathan Hughes (Wasps), Maro Itoje (Saracens), Sam Jones (Wasps), George Kruis (Saracens), Joe Launchbury (Wasps), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Matt Mullan (Wasps), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins), Tommy Taylor (Wasps), Billy Vunipola (Saracens), Mako Vunipola (Saracens), Mike Williams (Leicester Tigers), Tom Wood (Northampton Saints).

Backs
Mike Brown (Harlequins), Danny Care (Harlequins), Elliot Daly (Wasps), Owen Farrell (Saracens), George Ford (Bath Rugby), Mike Haley (Sale Sharks), Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby), Alex Lozowski (Saracens), Joe Marchant (Harlequins), Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby), Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs), Dan Robson (Wasps), Semesa Rokoduguni (Bath Rugby), Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs), Ben Spencer (Saracens), Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors), Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers), Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby), Marland Yarde (Harlequins), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers).

Players at risk for me

Beaumont - Curry
Catt - Genge
Hill - Williams
Jones - Wilson
Williams - Underhill
Wood - Curry
Haley - ?
Roko - Solomona
Robson/Spencer - Maunder
Manu - Francis


no place for Collier?


Saint Eddie name checked Williams rather than Collier, so I reckon he'll go with Cole, Sinks and Williams


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:02 am 
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Chuckles1188 wrote:
Curry's not going to be in the EPS soon, he's still very much a baby (has he turned 19 yet?). But given some time to develop he could be fearsome indeed. Outside chance of a bench spot by RWC2019, more likely he's the new Maro and will start to show what he can really offer after that point


He could be, but they both look fairly well physically developed already (albeit still young), and not a huge frame to pack more on. I guess they could end up more like Hooper with the correct conditioning, but considering Eddie's current choice of 7, I agree with you and I don't see a switch to a Curry coming soon.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:04 am 
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Raggs wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
Curry's not going to be in the EPS soon, he's still very much a baby (has he turned 19 yet?). But given some time to develop he could be fearsome indeed. Outside chance of a bench spot by RWC2019, more likely he's the new Maro and will start to show what he can really offer after that point


He could be, but they both look fairly well physically developed already (albeit still young), and not a huge frame to pack more on. I guess they could end up more like Hooper with the correct conditioning, but considering Eddie's current choice of 7, I agree with you and I don't see a switch to a Curry coming soon.


I was thinking more about him becoming cannier than more physically beastly.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:09 am 
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Mick Mannock wrote:
no place for Collier?

Eating humble pie here. I mentioned last week that I don't recall seeing Collier ever having a particularly good match when I've watched him for Quins!
Well I've watched him for England twice in 2 weeks albeit as a sub and twice he has had a positive effect on the scrum and the match. I hope he continues to develop well.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:11 am 
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Raggs wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
Curry's not going to be in the EPS soon, he's still very much a baby (has he turned 19 yet?). But given some time to develop he could be fearsome indeed. Outside chance of a bench spot by RWC2019, more likely he's the new Maro and will start to show what he can really offer after that point


He could be, but they both look fairly well physically developed already (albeit still young), and not a huge frame to pack more on. I guess they could end up more like Hooper with the correct conditioning, but considering Eddie's current choice of 7, I agree with you and I don't see a switch to a Curry coming soon.


Curry will need more bite around the breakdown and in the tackle. But even as is he may push more than we think. I wonder if England were really switched on to the tunovers he secured as it's not really been in our game much that we'd have such chances, given the team (with either Ford or Faz at 10) another 3-4 games with Curry at 7 and the conversation around Curry might change rather a lot.

That said Curry does need more bite, and it's probably not nothing if Eddie was more taken by Ben than Tom.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:23 am 
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Madness wrote:
Current EPS

45-man elite player squad:

Forwards

Josh Beaumont (Sale Sharks), Nathan Catt (Bath Rugby), Jack Clifford (Harlequins), Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs), Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby), Jamie George (Saracens), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), James Haskell (Wasps), Paul Hill (Northampton Saints), Nathan Hughes (Wasps), Maro Itoje (Saracens), Sam Jones (Wasps), George Kruis (Saracens), Joe Launchbury (Wasps), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Matt Mullan (Wasps), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins), Tommy Taylor (Wasps), Billy Vunipola (Saracens), Mako Vunipola (Saracens), Mike Williams (Leicester Tigers), Tom Wood (Northampton Saints).

Backs
Mike Brown (Harlequins), Danny Care (Harlequins), Elliot Daly (Wasps), Owen Farrell (Saracens), George Ford (Bath Rugby), Mike Haley (Sale Sharks), Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby), Alex Lozowski (Saracens), Joe Marchant (Harlequins), Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby), Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs), Dan Robson (Wasps), Semesa Rokoduguni (Bath Rugby), Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs), Ben Spencer (Saracens), Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors), Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers), Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby), Marland Yarde (Harlequins), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers).

Players at risk for me

Beaumont - Curry
Catt - Genge
Hill - Williams
Jones - Wilson
Williams - Underhill
Wood - Curry
Haley - ?
Roko - Solomona
Robson/Spencer - Maunder
Manu - Francis


Based upon Eddie's comments, I'd agree with the above. Haley doesn't necessarily need to be replaced. He did will in the Barbarians game and was unlucky not to tour. I suspect he may have done if Cokanasiga hadn't sufficiently recovered from his injury to make the plane.

I'd imagine Slade is also at risk following an absolute shocker of a performance last night. Eddie might take a punt on Manu finding fitness and form and swap Francis in for Slade instead?

Jack Clifford is another one. I could see him losing out to someone like Armand or possibly Mercer?


Last edited by Scrumhead on Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:27 am 
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piquant wrote:
Raggs wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
Curry's not going to be in the EPS soon, he's still very much a baby (has he turned 19 yet?). But given some time to develop he could be fearsome indeed. Outside chance of a bench spot by RWC2019, more likely he's the new Maro and will start to show what he can really offer after that point


He could be, but they both look fairly well physically developed already (albeit still young), and not a huge frame to pack more on. I guess they could end up more like Hooper with the correct conditioning, but considering Eddie's current choice of 7, I agree with you and I don't see a switch to a Curry coming soon.


Curry will need more bite around the breakdown and in the tackle. But even as is he may push more than we think. I wonder if England were really switched on to the tunovers he secured as it's not really been in our game much that we'd have such chances, given the team (with either Ford or Faz at 10) another 3-4 games with Curry at 7 and the conversation around Curry might change rather a lot.

That said Curry does need more bite, and it's probably not nothing if Eddie was more taken by Ben than Tom.


Was he though? Ben Curry was in line to be on the bench against the Barbarians, not Tom. The way I see it, Ben had a back spasm and Tom took his chance to the extent that he earned the debut in the first test. Underhill would have been ahead of Tom too but for the shoulder injury. I wouldn't write Ben Curry off. After all, he was the better of the two last season.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:30 am 
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I think you're agreeing with him


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:38 am 
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:blush: :blush: :blush:

And the d!ck of the day award goes to ...

Yes - on reflection, I was absolutely agreeing! Clearly misread that post!


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:41 am 
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Wow, the numbers don't look at Underhill favourably really. There were fewer tackles and fewer rucks, and he was on for only 60 minutes instead of 70, but Curry definitely came out on top in terms of workrate.

Curry
Defence
3,1,3,3,1,1,1,5,3,4,2,1,3,2,2,2,2,3,2,2
Offence
2,2,2,2,2,3,3,3,3,2,2,2,3,3,2,2,2,1,1,2,1

--------

Underhill
Defence
3,2,3,2,4,3,2,4,3,3

Offence
2,2,2,2,3,1,2

We didn't have as many rucks in the second game, and it may be a large number occurred in the last 20 of that 2nd half (the first half was really quiet to start with). Without counting all the tackles of the time that the players weren't on, it'd be tough to tell.

Impressions are Underhill has the physicality I suspect Eddie will like, but Curry is getting to a lot more rucks. Thing is, at a lot of them he just went over the top, past the ruck and didn't take anyone down whilst doing it. Underhill seemed more effective in what he did do, Curry simply did a lot more.

I seriously suspect that the differences between the games has led to a bit of the numbers difference, 239 tackles in the first test, vs 170 in the 2nd. And of course Curry getting another 10 minutes.

For me Curry would represent revolution, he's sniffing around a lot of defensive rucks (a lot of this accounts for his 1s and 2s), Underhill is an evolution. I wonder if Underhill could be another 6.5 too.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:47 am 
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The 2nd test had too many handling errors, made it hard for Underhill to get properly stuck in. Made it even worse for us given we had a midfield for handling rather than carrying


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