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Aside from one dominant tackle Underhill got run over and swatted aside when I watched him for England against the Baabaas. He's still got a lot of growing to do. A fully fit Sam Jones is a better option I would think.Scrumhead wrote:I think this is the appeal of Underhill - he brings a similar physicality to Haskell with a bit more youthful vigour and looks better over the ball (not Haskell's forte anyway). He looks like a reasonable carrier and he is apparently skilful enough to be used as a link player, but I haven't really seen that side of his game yet to comment.
I expect to see Haskell in and around the squad for the time being but if Underhill can live up to the hype, I think he'll be taking the role of the destructive 7.
He played just over half an hour before getting injured.Gospel wrote:Aside from one dominant tackle Underhill got run over and swatted aside when I watched him for England against the Baabaas. He's still got a lot of growing to do. A fully fit Sam Jones is a better option I would think.Scrumhead wrote:I think this is the appeal of Underhill - he brings a similar physicality to Haskell with a bit more youthful vigour and looks better over the ball (not Haskell's forte anyway). He looks like a reasonable carrier and he is apparently skilful enough to be used as a link player, but I haven't really seen that side of his game yet to comment.
I expect to see Haskell in and around the squad for the time being but if Underhill can live up to the hype, I think he'll be taking the role of the destructive 7.
Oh yes that's right.. Curry played the first Test against Argentina and Underhill the second. I can recall how well the Sale lad went but have drawn a complete blank on Underhill.JM2K6 wrote:He played just over half an hour before getting injured.Gospel wrote:Aside from one dominant tackle Underhill got run over and swatted aside when I watched him for England against the Baabaas. He's still got a lot of growing to do. A fully fit Sam Jones is a better option I would think.Scrumhead wrote:I think this is the appeal of Underhill - he brings a similar physicality to Haskell with a bit more youthful vigour and looks better over the ball (not Haskell's forte anyway). He looks like a reasonable carrier and he is apparently skilful enough to be used as a link player, but I haven't really seen that side of his game yet to comment.
I expect to see Haskell in and around the squad for the time being but if Underhill can live up to the hype, I think he'll be taking the role of the destructive 7.
Might be better off watching the Test match he played in.
You think he leap frogs the likes of Sam Jones?Scrumhead wrote:I think Eddie sees Underhill as the heir to Haskell for the reasons I outlined.
Mark Wilson was superb. Best of all the loosies on tourScrumhead wrote:Underhill was OK, but I thought Tom Curry was the better of the two and I thought Mark Wilson was better than both. However, I think Eddie sees Underhill as the heir to Haskell for the reasons I outlined.
The article below is an interesting read.
http://www.planetrugby.com/news/spotlig ... and-debut/
Without a direct comparison to Curry or Wilson, it's a bit one-dimensional, but worth a scan anyway.
Yes. I do. As Dragster says ...Gospel wrote:You think he leap frogs the likes of Sam Jones?Scrumhead wrote:I think Eddie sees Underhill as the heir to Haskell for the reasons I outlined.
Rightly or wrongly, Eddie has been itching to pick Underhill and had he been eligible for selection at the time, I'm almost certain he would have been picked ahead of Jones.DragsterDriver wrote:Eddie has coveted underhill for ages- could well be his pet project.
100%. I just hope he gets the recognition he deserves now and doesn't lose out to more fashionable players.Anonymous. wrote:Mark Wilson was superb. Best of all the loosies on tourScrumhead wrote:Underhill was OK, but I thought Tom Curry was the better of the two and I thought Mark Wilson was better than both. However, I think Eddie sees Underhill as the heir to Haskell for the reasons I outlined.
The article below is an interesting read.
http://www.planetrugby.com/news/spotlig ... and-debut/
Without a direct comparison to Curry or Wilson, it's a bit one-dimensional, but worth a scan anyway.
Well, in interviews he has spoken about the 2019 RWC project. His words. He clearly values that, and sees it as his current holy grail. Not that he'd relegate 6N tournament to a testing-run, or anything.blindcider wrote:This!Rugby2023 wrote:I don't know about that man. RWC 2019 schedule already looks unforgiving for England, I wouldn't like EJ to put all the eggs in that basket. I'd quite like to see England make history in doing a first ever 3-peat of Six Nations titles next year. No team has managed to win the competition outright three times in a row in 134 years.englishchief wrote:^ Eddie needs to decide whether he is going to play Hartley as first choice hooker at the 2019 WC, or not. If he isn't going to be playing, there is not point in playing him over George.
In my opinion by 2019 the back row and second row will be our strongest areas on the pitch. If Curry, Curry, Mercer, Underhill and Earl all develop then we will have class depth to back up Billy V and Robshaw. The younger ones also seem to be better ball in hand, especially Mercer who was chucking the ball about at the U20 WC.
As I've said before I'm most worried about are the starting scrum-half and full back, and potentially a lack of depth at prop if Sinks and Stonegenge don't come on and the form of Marler/Cole/Mako falters.
Everything now has to be about 2019. It is worth not winning games in the 6N as convincingly as we otherwise would if it means we are blooding our first choice players for 2019.
If Eddie wanted Maunder as his first choice scrum-half for 2019 (which he won't as he's far too inexperienced), then he should start him there at every game possible from now to 2019. Same if he moves Daly/Watson to FB.
Look after 2019 in 2019. The coach has to pick the squad with victory in the next game in mind. Of course he has to have some sort of succession plan to bring new guys through but this focus on 4 year cycles is counter productive. There are 2 Six Nation competitions to worry about before we need to think about world cup games FFS.
I think you're spot on- winning is everything. Argentina tour was a massive success, keeps everybody on their toes.The Man Without Fear wrote:I can't see Jones going into any 6N or Test series with any goal except winning it, if for no other reason than winning breeds winning.
maro gave away two penalties and could've had a can more. Cracking game nonetheless.Good return for the England Lions today. Mako had a Kruis though.englishchief wrote:Forward-wise, I think George was pretty good. And Sinks when he came on. Itoje played at the level we've come to expect of him, and I think I'm right in saying he didn't give away any penalties?
In the backs, thought Faz was good especially in those incredibly high pressure kicks, and in open play as well. Watson and Daly both good too, I've been really impressed with Daly's handling and passing skills that he's shown on tour. Watson showing his elusiveness.
Also pleased for Nowelly to get some game time (albeit a couple of minutes). Huge honour to get on the pitch.
Yeah but that means Brown at full back. But I do agree those 2 should definitely be starting.Rugby2023 wrote:Good return for the England Lions today. Mako had a Kruis though.englishchief wrote:Forward-wise, I think George was pretty good. And Sinks when he came on. Itoje played at the level we've come to expect of him, and I think I'm right in saying he didn't give away any penalties?
In the backs, thought Faz was good especially in those incredibly high pressure kicks, and in open play as well. Watson and Daly both good too, I've been really impressed with Daly's handling and passing skills that he's shown on tour. Watson showing his elusiveness.
Also pleased for Nowelly to get some game time (albeit a couple of minutes). Huge honour to get on the pitch.
England wing positions are solved imo, Watson & Daly inked in.
bacon2 wrote:I think Maro was penned at least once for off side.
Thought he was immense. Huge workrate.
George performing in the highest level, has to start from now on.
Mako lost the head a little bit to be honest, haven't seen that before. Needs to reign it in. (especially with sinkler and possibly Genge in an England 23)
Lawes was great when he came on.
V happy for all the lads
He was excellent in play but a complete penalty machine- constantly offside .JM2K6 wrote:
I don't disagree, but luckily he only got called once or twice. Eddie will rein that in.DragsterDriver wrote:He was excellent in play but a complete penalty machine- constantly offside .JM2K6 wrote:
Agree about sink and George starting, imagine playing again this 2 and then having LCD and Harry Williams coming off the benchSinkers wrote:Other younger Players like George, Sinkler should also come back from this tour to their rightful starting places in the squad.
George had been flawless IMHO.
It was a Simon Shaw sort of display, just be hugely disruptive and physical and damn the penalties.DragsterDriver wrote:He was excellent in play but a complete penalty machine- constantly offside .JM2K6 wrote:
As mentioned never seen that from Mako before, however there was a sense of injustice about the pen on Barrett for the charge down.Gospel wrote:'kin hell our lads have shithouse discipline.
They're sly enough to do it at a ruck, not next to one where it's obvious. Mako should have been already off the pitch.polyallstar wrote:As mentioned never seen that from Mako before, however there was a sense of injustice about the pen on Barrett for the charge down.Gospel wrote:'kin hell our lads have shithouse discipline.
NZ 2nd rows aren't shy of hitting people on the floor at ruck time either tbf, but he needs to do better that that
The charge on Barrett was a real "if they can do it, so can we" type moment and the NZ rowers we clearing out like that all day long. Ayoub was really looking to even the numbers up with his "Jerome, Jerome, wherefore art thou, Jerome" nonesensepolyallstar wrote:As mentioned never seen that from Mako before, however there was a sense of injustice about the pen on Barrett for the charge down.Gospel wrote:'kin hell our lads have shithouse discipline.
NZ 2nd rows aren't shy of hitting people on the floor at ruck time either tbf, but he needs to do better that that
In mitigation he has had mustard rubbed on his nut-sack all week.polyallstar wrote:As mentioned never seen that from Mako before, however there was a sense of injustice about the pen on Barrett for the charge down.Gospel wrote:'kin hell our lads have shithouse discipline.
NZ 2nd rows aren't shy of hitting people on the floor at ruck time either tbf, but he needs to do better that that
it was nowhere, nowhere, nowhere, near a simon shaw display.JM2K6 wrote:It was a Simon Shaw sort of display, just be hugely disruptive and physical and damn the penalties.DragsterDriver wrote:He was excellent in play but a complete penalty machine- constantly offside .JM2K6 wrote:
They had to drag him away when the winning penalty was awarded too: a mite feisty, is our Kyle...polyallstar wrote:Just rewatched the end, was Sinkler kicking off in the players tunnel too?
Seemed to get ushered away by Webb whilst Farrell was shouting at him to shut up...
Eddie seems to be able to keep all the hot heads cool, though, so no worries for me.DragsterDriver wrote:Sink has played really well but needs to curb it- genge seems to have tamed himself a bit.
Very harsh. One poor game at the beginning of the tour. He's been fine since.armchair pundit wrote:Players' stock this tour
STOCK UP
Sinckler
George
Lawes
Teo
Watson
STOCK UNCHANGED
Itoje
Marler
Farrell
Daly
Mako
STOCK DOWN
Cole
Kruis
Haskell
Joseph
Nowell