Planet Rugby Forum

The likes of Sinckler really stepped up the defence in the last 10 when it was really needed.
Has he leap frogged Cole? I dunno- scrummaging has not been an issue- albeit against the reserve kiwis
tbh, I don't think he is usually this feisty- I reckon it's the whole Lions thing that has him really pumped up- I doubt it would happen playing for England as much.

He usually is this feisty.

England will have a new captain for the 6 nations anyway.

plum-pudding wrote:tbh, I don't think he is usually this feisty- I reckon it's the whole Lions thing that has him really pumped up- I doubt it would happen playing for England as much.

He really is usually this feisty.

Marler shouting "Enough! Enough!" a couple of months ago

matta25 wrote:

plum-pudding wrote:tbh, I don't think he is usually this feisty- I reckon it's the whole Lions thing that has him really pumped up- I doubt it would happen playing for England as much.

He really is usually this feisty.

Marler shouting "Enough! Enough!" a couple of months ago

could someone ask why Kruis was playing for Northampton, so I don't have to look like an idiot ? Thanks.

armchair pundit wrote:could someone ask why Kruis was playing for Northampton, so I don't have to look like an idiot ? Thanks.

Too late for that. As good as he is, Sinkler looks to be proper mental and could very easily become a liability unless he can curb his enthusiasm a bit.

Oxbow wrote:

armchair pundit wrote:could someone ask why Kruis was playing for Northampton, so I don't have to look like an idiot ? Thanks.

Too late for that. As good as he is, Sinkler looks to be proper mental and could very easily become a liability unless he can curb his enthusiasm a bit.

Yeah, so far above club level it's been a huge positive but no-one is convinced he has a handle on it yet.

WTF is happening on the Lions threads today? You'd think they lost the way some of the lads are tearing strips off each other.

Its farking mental

SaintK wrote:STOCK DOWN
Cole
Kruis
Haskell
Joseph
Nowell

Those guys have gone well in the midweek games. I think only Kruis let himself down but the entire pack did in the first test.

Gospel wrote:

SaintK wrote:STOCK DOWN
Cole
Kruis
Haskell
Joseph
Nowell

Those guys have gone well in the midweek games. I think only Kruis let himself down but the entire pack did in the first test.

Agreed. Last weekend was quite possibly the worst performance I have ever seen from Kruis, but he's had more than enough very good games for England for that to mean absolutely naff all.

Cole, Haskell, Joseph and Nowell have been pretty good in the mid-week games. I don't think their stock can go down purely by virtue of not being selected for a test side picked by Warren Gatland.

Whether or not the good performances of George or Sinckler elevate them ahead of Hartley and Cole remains to be seen. I'm happy to give Hartley credit for the contribution he's given under Eddie, but IMO, George should always have been ahead of him and it must be reaching the point where he can no longer justify his place on 'leadership' alone.

Scrumhead wrote:Whether or not the good performances of George or Sinckler elevate them ahead of Hartley and Cole remains to be seen. I'm happy to give Hartley credit for the contribution he's given under Eddie, but IMO, George should always have been ahead of him and it must be reaching the point where he can no longer justify his place on 'leadership' alone.

I think George really came of age today. What a performance from the lad in only his second ever test start I believe? Sinckler's making a hell of an impact from the bench against the very best in the world. Can you imagine how much self belief these guys are going to be have after this experience. I'm lovin' it.

JM2K6 wrote:

Oxbow wrote:

armchair pundit wrote:could someone ask why Kruis was playing for Northampton, so I don't have to look like an idiot ? Thanks.

Too late for that. As good as he is, Sinkler looks to be proper mental and could very easily become a liability unless he can curb his enthusiasm a bit.

Yeah, so far above club level it's been a huge positive but no-one is convinced he has a handle on it yet.

I recall Eddie cited it as a positive for him and Genge; that they had both come from difficult backgrounds and had some serious mongrel about them.

Having watched the highlights again, Sinckler got in a scuffle with Perenara, who was being an utter prick all the time he was on; willing to give KS the benefit of the doubt on that one!

armchair pundit wrote:Players' stock this tour


STOCK UP
Sinckler
George
Lawes
Teo
Watson

STOCK UNCHANGED
Itoje
Marler
Farrell
Daly
Mako

STOCK DOWN
Cole
Kruis
Haskell
Joseph
Nowell

Apart from Cole still having the gas to tackle Nani- Williams in the open field ,in the 75th minute, and Nowell looking dangerous every time he had the ball in attack, obviously !

Backwoodsman1 wrote:

armchair pundit wrote:Players' stock this tour


STOCK UP
Sinckler
George
Lawes
Teo
Watson

STOCK UNCHANGED
Itoje
Marler
Farrell
Daly
Mako

STOCK DOWN
Cole
Kruis
Haskell
Joseph
Nowell

Apart from Cole still having the gas to tackle Nani- Williams in the open field ,in the 75th minute, and Nowell looking dangerous every time he had the ball in attack, obviously !

how many times has he had possession of the ball, and how many times has he scored or created a score ?

is it every time he had the ball, or did he just "look" dangerous ?

anyway, things looking pretty exciting for English rugby, particularly considering the likes of genge, launchbury, robshaw, ford, tuilagi aren't even on tour.

in 2 years time, a pack along the lines of the following could be looking pretty dangerous :

Genge
George
Sinckler
Launchbury
Kruis
Itoje
Robshaw
Vunipola


When you think that the irish could field :

Mcgrath
Best
Furlong
Henderson
Ryan
Van der flier
OBrien
Heaslip


both of these packs could be at least as good as the all blacks.

If I've learnt one thing doing these future fantasy teams, it is not to expect much change from year-to-year. The only permanent change I can see is George for Hartley, and they will have to figure out how to get Launch, Itoje, Kruis, Robshaw, Lawes into the same pack and bench.

Hawk97 wrote:If I've learnt one thing doing these future fantasy teams, it is not to expect much change from year-to-year. The only permanent change I can see is George for Hartley, and they will have to figure out how to get Launch, Itoje, Kruis, Robshaw, Lawes into the same pack and bench.

there's only one way they could do that, which is to have itoje or lawes start at 6, and robshaw start at 7.

I don't think EJ would start Robshaw at 7, personally.

armchair pundit wrote:

Hawk97 wrote:If I've learnt one thing doing these future fantasy teams, it is not to expect much change from year-to-year. The only permanent change I can see is George for Hartley, and they will have to figure out how to get Launch, Itoje, Kruis, Robshaw, Lawes into the same pack and bench.

there's only one way they could do that, which is to have itoje or lawes start at 6, and robshaw start at 7.

3 locks and no openside. What could go wrong?

armchair pundit wrote:

Hawk97 wrote:If I've learnt one thing doing these future fantasy teams, it is not to expect much change from year-to-year. The only permanent change I can see is George for Hartley, and they will have to figure out how to get Launch, Itoje, Kruis, Robshaw, Lawes into the same pack and bench.

there's only one way they could do that, which is to have itoje or lawes start at 6, and robshaw start at 7.

Neither Itoje or Lawes is a good enough flanker to be picked ahead of our other options. I'm still hoping we can find one of those 6"8 athletic beasts into the mix

Hawk97 wrote:I don't think EJ would start Robshaw at 7, personally.

then it can't be done.

Injuries will take 2-3 of those players out, particularly in a Lions year. EJ will be down to Tom Wood again.

Hawk97 wrote:If I've learnt one thing doing these future fantasy teams, it is not to expect much change from year-to-year. The only permanent change I can see is George for Hartley, and they will have to figure out how to get Launch, Itoje, Kruis, Robshaw, Lawes into the same pack and bench.

I agree. Genge has massive potential but I don't see any way he is going to overhaul Marler and Mako in the next two years unless injuries force a change.

Sinckler has a much better chance of becoming a starter, but it's easy to underestimate the value of Cole's experience. Sinckler makes a huge impact off the bench and I can see him getting an increasing amount of time (i.e. coming on at 50mins) but I don't see an immediate reversal of the status quo.

We just have to accept that the best 8 forwards isn't necessarily the best pack. We're blessed to have arguably four of the world's top 10 locks, but that doesn't mean we need to squeeze all of them on to the pitch come what may. Realistically, three will make the match day 23 and the one missing out will simply be unfortunate. This does however, insure us against injury to some degree which isn't unlikely in an attritional position.

Itoje isn't a 6. I'm not against him moving there as a tactical ploy later in the game, but as a starter, I'd much sooner see a specialist blindside. Underhill and the Currys are giving us promising options at 7 and with Robshaw or Wilson at 6, we have the opportunity to field a genuinely balanced back row for the fist time in ages.

In two years, I think it's much more likely we'll see:

1. Marler
2. George
3. Cole
4. Itoje
5. Kruis
6. Robshaw
7. Underhill
8. B. Vunipola

16. Cowan-Dickie or Taylor
17. M. Vunipola
18. Sinckler
19. Launchbury or Lawes
20. T. or B. Curry

Tigers have signed a one year deal with Aussie 7s player Nick Malouf:

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/aussie ... jump-ship/

Scrumhead wrote:Sinckler has a much better chance of becoming a starter, but it's easy to underestimate the value of Cole's experience. Sinckler makes a huge impact off the bench and I can see him getting an increasing amount of time (i.e. coming on at 50mins) but I don't see an immediate reversal of the status quo.

Tend to agree, some players offer a huge amount off the bench against tiring legs. I think Te'o, Sinckler, Care & Nowell are amongst them. To have to face those players fired up with 20 minutes to go is tough for any opposition.

Rugby2023 wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:Sinckler has a much better chance of becoming a starter, but it's easy to underestimate the value of Cole's experience. Sinckler makes a huge impact off the bench and I can see him getting an increasing amount of time (i.e. coming on at 50mins) but I don't see an immediate reversal of the status quo.

Tend to agree, some players offer a huge amount off the bench against tiring legs. I think Te'o, Sinckler, Care & Nowell are amongst them. To have to face those players fired up with 20 minutes to go is tough for any opposition.

Agreed. Part of me is curious to see whether Sinckler or Te'o would make as much of an obvious impact as a starter rather than a 'finisher'. Personally, I think using the bench correctly and at the right time is a real skill and so far, Eddie has proved himself to be very adept at doing so.

It's definitely a 23 man game now which really makes use of our strength in depth,

England
Argentina
France
USA (congrats to them)
+1 (Samoa)

Groups taking shape quite nicely. I can see Eddie for a physicality work out playing the top team against Samoa and then the second team will get a hit out against the USA.

Wendigo7 wrote:England
Argentina
France
USA (congrats to them)
+1 (Samoa)

Groups taking shape quite nicely. I can see Eddie for a physicality work out playing the top team against Samoa and then the second team will get a hit out against the USA.

Depends on the order of matches for me. If USA is the opener, the firsts will play them, if it's in the middle, it'll be a rest, last fixture, perhaps a mix.

Wendigo7 wrote:England
Argentina
France
USA (congrats to them)
+1 (Samoa)

Groups taking shape quite nicely. I can see Eddie for a physicality work out playing the top team against Samoa and then the second team will get a hit out against the USA.

If it's really Samoa, then the group is virtually a mini 6 Nations level tournament on neutral ground. England should get a trophy just for topping the group (if they do). I'll be shocked if there aren't numerous injuries before the knockout stages.

The form of Lawes is making Jones 2nd row decisions even harder.

Raggs wrote:

Wendigo7 wrote:England
Argentina
France
USA (congrats to them)
+1 (Samoa)

Groups taking shape quite nicely. I can see Eddie for a physicality work out playing the top team against Samoa and then the second team will get a hit out against the USA.

Depends on the order of matches for me. If USA is the opener, the firsts will play them, if it's in the middle, it'll be a rest, last fixture, perhaps a mix.

Yeah - exactly this.

It's a case of striking the right balance between winning the group and keeping your best players sharp, but not burned-out.

Playing Samoa and Argentina again in the AIs will be interesting as far as preparation is concerned.

this thing about eddie resting players in November who had heavy involvement with the lions....

is that actually going to happen ?

there's 4 months between these fixtures.

unless the players are carrying heavy niggles, I cant see the point in it.

theyd only end up playing for their clubs anyway wouldn't they ?

armchair pundit wrote:this thing about eddie resting players in November who had heavy involvement with the lions....

is that actually going to happen ?

there's 4 months between these fixtures.

unless the players are carrying heavy niggles, I cant see the point in it.

theyd only end up playing for their clubs anyway wouldn't they ?

He'd take them into camp but not play them I'd imagine.

Keep them fresh for the clubs but basically a bit of recuperation.

It would be a bit naughty to see our seconds beat Argentina and Samoa again too.

Wendigo7 wrote:

armchair pundit wrote:this thing about eddie resting players in November who had heavy involvement with the lions....

is that actually going to happen ?

there's 4 months between these fixtures.

unless the players are carrying heavy niggles, I cant see the point in it.

theyd only end up playing for their clubs anyway wouldn't they ?

He'd take them into camp but not play them I'd imagine.

Keep them fresh for the clubs but basically a bit of recuperation.

It would be a bit naughty to see our seconds beat Argentina and Samoa again too.

fair point. will they not have recovered from the tour in 4 months though ?

only ones I can think might really need a rest would be mako and lawes, and I would imagine lawes would be desperate to play.

Wendigo7 wrote:He'd take them into camp but not play them I'd imagine.

Keep them fresh for the clubs but basically a bit of recuperation.

It would be a bit naughty to see our seconds beat Argentina and Samoa again too.

I can't see him keeping them under wraps for Australia. There's no way he'd want to risk an L to his old employers.

armchair pundit wrote:

Wendigo7 wrote:

armchair pundit wrote:this thing about eddie resting players in November who had heavy involvement with the lions....

is that actually going to happen ?

there's 4 months between these fixtures.

unless the players are carrying heavy niggles, I cant see the point in it.

theyd only end up playing for their clubs anyway wouldn't they ?

He'd take them into camp but not play them I'd imagine.

Keep them fresh for the clubs but basically a bit of recuperation.

It would be a bit naughty to see our seconds beat Argentina and Samoa again too.

fair point. will they not have recovered from the tour in 4 months though ?

only ones I can think might really need a rest would be mako and lawes, and I would imagine lawes would be desperate to play.

depends what happens between then and now really, in some cases you could argue English tourists Launchberry (for example) has had a harder/longer season than say Watson so just blanket resting Lions seems slightly odd. However the likes of Mako, George, Hask, Lawes all look like they need a proper rest over the next few months...

Lads, I've been in deepest darkest Somerset wher there wasn't even wifi in our b and b.

Could anyone point me towards any particularly amusing meltdown threads that I assume occured?

Ta muchly

It's more to do with the amount of continuous rugby certain players have had. The Lions tour basically means that the likes of Mako or George will have had almost 12 months of rugby with no real break.

In comparison, the England tourists will have had at least 2-3 weeks away from rugby ahead of the new season.

It's not just physical fatigue either. There is definitely a psychological element involved too which shouldn't be underestimated.

happyhooker wrote:Lads, I've been in deepest darkest Somerset wher there wasn't even wifi in our b and b.

Could anyone point me towards any particularly amusing meltdown threads that I assume occured?

Ta muchly

http://forum.planetrugby.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=80559

Delicious SBW fan.

Eddie Jones Q and A: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-8c8YP82PE

Detective work from this: Who is he lad who has just signed for a club, is reasonably skillful, but has been asked to pack on 7kg (and is in or near the EPS)?