Planet Rugby Forum

Just seen the disallowed try at the end of the Sale vs. Quins game. Shocking decision.

DragsterDriver wrote:

Chuckles1188 wrote:

DragsterDriver wrote:Caught a bit of today’s game- sarries look back to their physical ways.

Has Billy v dropped some Lard? His brief highlights looked ok?

Looks that way, but still crazy powerful and great footwork. I would not have any objection to him starting for England in the 6 Nations on the basis of today

if he’s healthy I’m guessing he’s nailed on. Looked leaner.

Robshaw, The Hask, Billy.

You know it makes sense

ovalball wrote:

DragsterDriver wrote:

Chuckles1188 wrote:

DragsterDriver wrote:Caught a bit of today’s game- sarries look back to their physical ways.

Has Billy v dropped some Lard? His brief highlights looked ok?

Looks that way, but still crazy powerful and great footwork. I would not have any objection to him starting for England in the 6 Nations on the basis of today

if he’s healthy I’m guessing he’s nailed on. Looked leaner.

Robshaw, The Hask, Billy.

You know it makes sense

They were awesome together- can they make 2019?

DragsterDriver wrote:

ovalball wrote:

DragsterDriver wrote:

Chuckles1188 wrote:

DragsterDriver wrote:Caught a bit of today’s game- sarries look back to their physical ways.

Has Billy v dropped some Lard? His brief highlights looked ok?

Looks that way, but still crazy powerful and great footwork. I would not have any objection to him starting for England in the 6 Nations on the basis of today

if he’s healthy I’m guessing he’s nailed on. Looked leaner.

Robshaw, The Hask, Billy.

You know it makes sense

They were awesome together- can they make 2019?

Be a bit worrying if we went in with Hartley/Cole/Hask and Robshaw - all players whose best days are probably behind them - especially Cole and Hartley. I think having one or two is fine - but 4 would be pushing it, looking at Cole's decline over the last year or two.

Robshaw/Hask/Billy had a cracking 2016 but let's not delude ourselves - each have limitations and that it's hardly the most balanced back row. it could do with a Simmonds/Mercer-type somewhere who's more comfortable in the wider channels, playing with some pacey backs etc

openclashXX wrote:Robshaw/Hask/Billy had a cracking 2016 but let's not delude ourselves - each have limitations and that it's hardly the most balanced back row. it could do with a Simmonds/Mercer-type somewhere who's more comfortable in the wider channels, playing with some pacey backs etc

I don't think anyone would disagree. But Eddie needs to integrate any new players PDQ if they are going have the required experience to be successful in the RWC.

I thought simmonds did well tbf.

ovalball wrote:

openclashXX wrote:Robshaw/Hask/Billy had a cracking 2016 but let's not delude ourselves - each have limitations and that it's hardly the most balanced back row. it could do with a Simmonds/Mercer-type somewhere who's more comfortable in the wider channels, playing with some pacey backs etc

I don't think anyone would disagree. But Eddie needs to integrate any new players PDQ if they are going have the required experience to be successful in the RWC.

and obviously at the head of that queue is Gary Graham

openclashXX wrote:

ovalball wrote:

openclashXX wrote:Robshaw/Hask/Billy had a cracking 2016 but let's not delude ourselves - each have limitations and that it's hardly the most balanced back row. it could do with a Simmonds/Mercer-type somewhere who's more comfortable in the wider channels, playing with some pacey backs etc

I don't think anyone would disagree. But Eddie needs to integrate any new players PDQ if they are going have the required experience to be successful in the RWC.

and obviously at the head of that queue is Gary Graham

Indeed. Eddie doesn't seem to be very consistent/logical with his backrow call ups. It's anyone's guess who is likely to be 1st choice and back up, on the flanks, outside of Robshaw.

ovalball wrote:

openclashXX wrote:

ovalball wrote:

openclashXX wrote:Robshaw/Hask/Billy had a cracking 2016 but let's not delude ourselves - each have limitations and that it's hardly the most balanced back row. it could do with a Simmonds/Mercer-type somewhere who's more comfortable in the wider channels, playing with some pacey backs etc

I don't think anyone would disagree. But Eddie needs to integrate any new players PDQ if they are going have the required experience to be successful in the RWC.

and obviously at the head of that queue is Gary Graham

Indeed. Eddie doesn't seem to be very consistent/logical with his backrow call ups. It's anyone's guess who is likely to be 1st choice and back up, on the flanks, outside of Robshaw.

Robshaw and Billy are nailed on.

If fit I think he wants Underhill as the starting 7. Simmonds will be bench option going forward methinks.

ovalball wrote:

DragsterDriver wrote:

Chuckles1188 wrote:

DragsterDriver wrote:Caught a bit of today’s game- sarries look back to their physical ways.

Has Billy v dropped some Lard? His brief highlights looked ok?

Looks that way, but still crazy powerful and great footwork. I would not have any objection to him starting for England in the 6 Nations on the basis of today

if he’s healthy I’m guessing he’s nailed on. Looked leaner.

Robshaw, The Hask, Billy.

You know it makes sense

Agreed. With Itoje backing them up from lock (plus whatever industrial lock we have at 5)that's been the only backrow that has genuinely clicked and worked for England in years.

Wendigo7 wrote:

ovalball wrote:

openclashXX wrote:

ovalball wrote:

openclashXX wrote:Robshaw/Hask/Billy had a cracking 2016 but let's not delude ourselves - each have limitations and that it's hardly the most balanced back row. it could do with a Simmonds/Mercer-type somewhere who's more comfortable in the wider channels, playing with some pacey backs etc

I don't think anyone would disagree. But Eddie needs to integrate any new players PDQ if they are going have the required experience to be successful in the RWC.

and obviously at the head of that queue is Gary Graham

Indeed. Eddie doesn't seem to be very consistent/logical with his backrow call ups. It's anyone's guess who is likely to be 1st choice and back up, on the flanks, outside of Robshaw.

Robshaw and Billy are nailed on.

If fit I think he wants Underhill as the starting 7. Simmonds will be bench option going forward methinks.

Possibly - but Underhill is still an unknown quantity at that level - and, if he doesn't recover soon, we won't get to see him in the 6N either. It leaves us quite thin on tried and tested specialists at 6 and 7. Just an injury or two away from playing people out of position or complete rookies.

ovalball wrote:
Possibly - but Underhill is still an unknown quantity at that level - and, if he doesn't recover soon, we won't get to see him in the 6N either. It leaves us quite thin on tried and tested specialists at 6 and 7. Just an injury or two away from playing people out of position or complete rookies.

The issue I have with Underhill is in his brief test history so far we have seen little to suggest he will carry, offer a body in attack often enough or be effective on the floor. Where as Haskell is always willing to carry and work with the attack and is decent on the floor too.

eldanielfire wrote:

ovalball wrote:
Possibly - but Underhill is still an unknown quantity at that level - and, if he doesn't recover soon, we won't get to see him in the 6N either. It leaves us quite thin on tried and tested specialists at 6 and 7. Just an injury or two away from playing people out of position or complete rookies.

The issue I have with Underhill is in his brief test history so far we have seen little to suggest he will carry, offer a body in attack often enough or be effective on the floor. Where as Haskell is always willing to carry and work with the attack and is decent on the floor too.

Yep - I think we all thought that - but the sample size is too small to be conclusive. He's basically untried at International level. Pretty much all the specialist alternatives (outside Hask/Robshaw) are untried. And time is running out to for anyone to prove themselves and get bedded in.

eldanielfire wrote:

ovalball wrote:
Possibly - but Underhill is still an unknown quantity at that level - and, if he doesn't recover soon, we won't get to see him in the 6N either. It leaves us quite thin on tried and tested specialists at 6 and 7. Just an injury or two away from playing people out of position or complete rookies.

The issue I have with Underhill is in his brief test history so far we have seen little to suggest he will carry, offer a body in attack often enough or be effective on the floor. Where as Haskell is always willing to carry and work with the attack and is decent on the floor too.

Underhill was never a carrying option for the Ospreys, and never looked like he ever would be. He's more of a Lydiate/Worsley/Cane type...destructive tackler, and strong ruck presence.

Rhodes had a great game today. Shields arrives later this year. I like Mercer, Simmonds, Curry and Polledri. Can Ewers put a set of games together ? The answer isn't Hask, Robshaw, or Underhill for me.

TopNacker wrote:Rhodes had a great game today. Shields arrives later this year. I like Mercer, Simmonds, Curry and Polledri. Can Ewers put a set of games together ? The answer isn't Hask, Robshaw, or Underhill for me.

Time is running out to 1) Establish who, of those, is the best fit 2) get them fully established into the team - and I wonder if we'll be any closer to 1) by the end of the 6N, let alone 2. I'd be surprised if Robshaw (assuming he's fit) isn't a starter in the RWC.

Jeff the Bear wrote:

eldanielfire wrote:

ovalball wrote:
Possibly - but Underhill is still an unknown quantity at that level - and, if he doesn't recover soon, we won't get to see him in the 6N either. It leaves us quite thin on tried and tested specialists at 6 and 7. Just an injury or two away from playing people out of position or complete rookies.

The issue I have with Underhill is in his brief test history so far we have seen little to suggest he will carry, offer a body in attack often enough or be effective on the floor. Where as Haskell is always willing to carry and work with the attack and is decent on the floor too.

Underhill was never a carrying option for the Ospreys, and never looked like he ever would be. He's more of a Lydiate/Worsley/Cane type...destructive tackler, and strong ruck presence.

Suits Eddie well, if shields goes well he’s a great chance.

As does Rhodes. It would be super-peachy but Eddie doesn’t give a damn about that.

As time goes on, Ben Curry and Jake Polledri look like the best options at 7. With Polledri’s limited AP experience I can kind of understand why he wasn’t included in the training squad, but that’s never stopped Eddie in the past. Ben Curry’s form should have made him a certainty for that squad.

I’d also like to see Simmonds tried at 7, but given that he rarely plays there for Chiefs, I don’t see it being a viable option.

Scrumhead wrote:As does Rhodes. It would be super-peachy but Eddie doesn’t give a damn about that.

As time goes on, Ben Curry and Jake Polledri look like the best options at 7. With Polledri’s limited AP experience I can kind of understand why he wasn’t included in the training squad, but that’s never stopped Eddie in the past. Ben Curry’s form should have made him a certainty for that squad.

I’d also like to see Simmonds tried at 7, but given that he rarely plays there for Chiefs, I don’t see it being a viable option.

Yeah I'm against moving players out of regular positions, especially into specialist positions where the best test teams have very experienced players who won't need a 2nd thought as to what to do in any given situation. A few world class players aside.

It's obvious coaches across the broad believe that experience is essential for world cups, even over form. I think this is particularly essential in positions of influence and specialist skill. Hence Jones consistency in certain positions (2, 10, 15 etc) but I think the only specialist place England have lacked is an outright 7 and 9. Our 9's at least are dangerous snipers that keep teams honest. With 7 we have to employ our two 6 1/2's in Haskell with Robson. Neither are world class on their own in the 7 shirt, but together they do a damn good job of negating opposition opensides and being a constant option for scrum halfs.

i do believe our remaining options the Curry's, Simmond's and others are certainly post-RWC options. Eddie should be now directing their development so they are ready for a first team place in 2020 and have worked on their weaknesses for two years.

Scrumhead wrote:As time goes on, Ben Curry and Jake Polledri look like the best options at 7. With Polledri’s limited AP experience I can kind of understand why he wasn’t included in the training squad, but that’s never stopped Eddie in the past. Ben Curry’s form should have made him a certainty for that squad.

Do Italy use their U20s as a designated second team and, if so, did Polledri play for them against another designated side?

geordie_6 wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:As time goes on, Ben Curry and Jake Polledri look like the best options at 7. With Polledri’s limited AP experience I can kind of understand why he wasn’t included in the training squad, but that’s never stopped Eddie in the past. Ben Curry’s form should have made him a certainty for that squad.

Do Italy use their U20s as a designated second team and, if so, did Polledri play for them against another designated side?

Pretty sure he's English qualified. Doubt Gloucester would have signed a flanker from NL1 if he wasn't

Edit - Well he seems to think he is anyway

https://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/feature ... e-flanker/

Unlike his dad who turned down playing for Italy back in the 80s, Polledri Jr opted to represent the Azzurri at U20s level and ended playing in the 2014 Junior World Cup on home ground.

But he remains English-qualified because of World Rugby regulations putting him in the best position to maybe one day play in the Premiership.

He added: “My dad is my biggest critic but I’m sure he means well. There’s always that added pressure on me to do well because of the career he’s had but it’s all good intention. We both play in the back row which makes it even harder.

“Playing for Italy was a great experience. One of the coaches at Filton knew one of the U19s coaches a so I was invited for a tour to South Africa. I ended up playing in the 2014 Junior World Cup in Italy which was pretty special.

“But luckily I’m still English-qualified because Italy have an A-team as their second national team rather than the U20s like Wales or France.

Margin_Walker wrote:

geordie_6 wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:As time goes on, Ben Curry and Jake Polledri look like the best options at 7. With Polledri’s limited AP experience I can kind of understand why he wasn’t included in the training squad, but that’s never stopped Eddie in the past. Ben Curry’s form should have made him a certainty for that squad.

Do Italy use their U20s as a designated second team and, if so, did Polledri play for them against another designated side?

Pretty sure he's English qualified. Doubt Gloucester would have signed a flanker from NL1 if he wasn't

Edit - Well he seems to think he is anyway

https://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/feature ... e-flanker/

Unlike his dad who turned down playing for Italy back in the 80s, Polledri Jr opted to represent the Azzurri at U20s level and ended playing in the 2014 Junior World Cup on home ground.

But he remains English-qualified because of World Rugby regulations putting him in the best position to maybe one day play in the Premiership.

He added: “My dad is my biggest critic but I’m sure he means well. There’s always that added pressure on me to do well because of the career he’s had but it’s all good intention. We both play in the back row which makes it even harder.

“Playing for Italy was a great experience. One of the coaches at Filton knew one of the U19s coaches a so I was invited for a tour to South Africa. I ended up playing in the 2014 Junior World Cup in Italy which was pretty special.

“But luckily I’m still English-qualified because Italy have an A-team as their second national team rather than the U20s like Wales or France.

Cheers MW.

Raggs wrote:Definitely made contact with the head. Forearm into the shoulder, shoulder into the head. He's gone for a few weeks. Shame that Exeter's ref bottled it in the euro game.

Glaws back to being Glaws, or were Saints decent?

Exactly what I was thinking. I don't like this new 'force' interpretation the referees are applying, as it seems to encourage making more of an incident than neccessary.

https://www.balls.ie/rugby/cian-healy-c ... ent-379826

ovalball wrote: Be a bit worrying if we went in with Hartley/Cole/Hask and Robshaw - all players whose best days are probably behind them - especially Cole and Hartley. I think having one or two is fine - but 4 would be pushing it, looking at Cole's decline over the last year or two.

George was hugely influential when he came on yesterday - settled the Saracens pack nicely

openclashXX wrote:

ovalball wrote:

openclashXX wrote:Robshaw/Hask/Billy had a cracking 2016 but let's not delude ourselves - each have limitations and that it's hardly the most balanced back row. it could do with a Simmonds/Mercer-type somewhere who's more comfortable in the wider channels, playing with some pacey backs etc

I don't think anyone would disagree. But Eddie needs to integrate any new players PDQ if they are going have the required experience to be successful in the RWC.

and obviously at the head of that queue is Gary Graham

Either that, or everyone’s reading too much into a one-off training squad...!

Shame Underhill didn’t last a bit longer against Oz; it looked like he’d been briefed to do more carrying and had a couple of decent hit-ups early-on.

His succeptability to head injuries is becoming a serious concern; he’s been taken off either knocked out or for an HIA in half the games I’ve watched him play!

Sadly, I’m not sure the Hask is going to get back to having the impact he had in ‘06. He looks a little slower and less dynamic these days and is dominating less at ruck time and in his carries. Think he would have had Alex Goode into touch a couple of years ago, but missed him yesterday.

Joost wrote:

openclashXX wrote:

ovalball wrote:

openclashXX wrote:Robshaw/Hask/Billy had a cracking 2016 but let's not delude ourselves - each have limitations and that it's hardly the most balanced back row. it could do with a Simmonds/Mercer-type somewhere who's more comfortable in the wider channels, playing with some pacey backs etc

I don't think anyone would disagree. But Eddie needs to integrate any new players PDQ if they are going have the required experience to be successful in the RWC.

and obviously at the head of that queue is Gary Graham

Either that, or everyone’s reading too much into a one-off training squad...!

Shame Underhill didn’t last a bit longer against Oz; it looked like he’d been briefed to do more carrying and had a couple of decent hit-ups early-on.

His succeptability to head injuries is becoming a serious concern; he’s been taken off either knocked out or for an HIA in half the games I’ve watched him play!

Sadly, I’m not sure the Hask is going to get back to having the impact he had in ‘06. He looks a little slower and less dynamic these days and is dominating less at ruck time and in his carries. Think he would have had Alex Goode into touch a couple of years ago, but missed him yesterday.

11 years is a long time in Rugby.

openclashXX wrote:

ovalball wrote:

openclashXX wrote:Robshaw/Hask/Billy had a cracking 2016 but let's not delude ourselves - each have limitations and that it's hardly the most balanced back row. it could do with a Simmonds/Mercer-type somewhere who's more comfortable in the wider channels, playing with some pacey backs etc

I don't think anyone would disagree. But Eddie needs to integrate any new players PDQ if they are going have the required experience to be successful in the RWC.

and obviously at the head of that queue is Gary Graham

Either that, or everyone’s reading too much into a one-off training squad...!

Shame Underhill didn’t last a bit longer against Oz; it looked like he’d been briefed to do more carrying and had a couple of decent hit-ups early-on.

His succeptability to head injuries is becoming a serious concern; he’s been taken off either knocked out or for an HIA in half the games I’ve watched him play!

Sadly, I’m not sure the Hask is going to get back to having the impact he had in ‘06. He looks a little slower and less dynamic these days and is dominating less at ruck time and in his carries. Think he would have had Alex Goode into touch a couple of years ago, but missed him yesterday.

Joost wrote:
Sadly, I’m not sure the Hask is going to get back to having the impact he had in ‘06. He looks a little slower and less dynamic these days and is dominating less at ruck time and in his carries. Think he would have had Alex Goode into touch a couple of years ago, but missed him yesterday.

Since his major time off with injuries, The Hask is getting better and better. He isn't a natural and goes from 0-60 quickly, he builds up his quality over time, especially as his fitness builds up. He's been much better recently and getting better game by game.

World Rugby Mag has done it's top 100 players.

Faz #1
Itoje #4
Billy and Mako 27 & 29.
Jamie George is in their somewhere too.

Sarries have 7 players in total. Not sure about other England players, as Sarries have put out a press release

Plastic Sarrie wrote:World Rugby Mag has done it's top 100 players.

Faz #1
Itoje #4
Billy and Mako 27 & 29.
Jamie George is in their somewhere too.

Sarries have 7 players in total. Not sure about other England players, as Sarries have put out a press release

I'm usually happy to defend Sarries in the face of their more vociferous critics, but that's pretty needy

Margin_Walker wrote:

Plastic Sarrie wrote:World Rugby Mag has done it's top 100 players.

Faz #1
Itoje #4
Billy and Mako 27 & 29.
Jamie George is in their somewhere too.

Sarries have 7 players in total. Not sure about other England players, as Sarries have put out a press release

I'm usually happy to defend Sarries in the face of their more vociferous critics, but that's pretty needy

Whoever's in charge of their social media account appears to understand exactly what their job is and does it well.

Really? Having 3 academy graduates in a Top 100 in the world is something to shout about, I think?

Especially as a club which has had pelters in the past for buying in players.

Maybe that's just me though?

fatheralice wrote:Falcons really good today. Graham lasted 20 mins, and was OK, but nothing more. Mark Wilson was absolutely outstanding.

Chiefs off the pace -lots of changes, but it was more mindset where they looked lacking.

Falcons well deserved the win, but turned down the chance to press for the 4th try at the death, preferring to deny Chiefs a LBP.
Understand the thinking, but wonder if they may rue the decision come the end of the season?

Surely they were looking to avoid losing the win by running down time when less than a score ahead, rather than denying chiefs the bonus?

Fazlet has improved markedly, but this talk of best in the world is just laughable.

RodneyRegis wrote:Fazlet has improved markedly, but this talk of best in the world is just laughable.

Agreed. He's very good, but he's not the best player in the world. I would fancy seeing him at 10 for England, with a proper 12 though.

Plastic Sarrie wrote:World Rugby Mag has done it's top 100 players.

Faz #1
Itoje #4
Billy and Mako 27 & 29.
Jamie George is in their somewhere too.

Sarries have 7 players in total. Not sure about other England players, as Sarries have put out a press release

I reckon Robshaw will start at 6 in the RWC and play well enough to at least have one decent set of tournament memories, but see the writing on the wall and announce his international retirement as soon as we get knocked out. He might consider a pension top up in France as well because he owes Quins absolutely nothing at this stage in his career.

The Man Without Fear wrote:I reckon Robshaw will start at 6 in the RWC and play well enough to at least have one decent set of tournament memories, but see the writing on the wall and announce his international retirement as soon as we get knocked out. He might consider a pension top up in France as well because he owes Quins absolutely nothing at this stage in his career.

Maybe, but I think he has at least two businesses here so I guess it depends on whether he could successfully run them from abroad.

fatcat wrote:

The Man Without Fear wrote:I reckon Robshaw will start at 6 in the RWC and play well enough to at least have one decent set of tournament memories, but see the writing on the wall and announce his international retirement as soon as we get knocked out. He might consider a pension top up in France as well because he owes Quins absolutely nothing at this stage in his career.

Maybe, but I think he has at least two businesses here so I guess it depends on whether he could successfully run them from abroad.

It wouldn't be to hard to grab a train back from France a few times a week.