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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:29 pm 
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Rugby2023 wrote:
Kitson in Guardian yesterday suggesting England might go Wigglesworth-Farrell-Te'o.


I miss Jamie Noon


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:32 pm 
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Genge/LCD/Sinkler coming off the bench would be fearsome, and not so wobbly as to worry about, in the final 25m. Start operating an Exeter chiefs method of swapping the whole front row.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:38 pm 
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I've just seen the clip of mercer chasing down Marcus Smith. Jesus the lad has wheels and some engine


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:41 pm 
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happyhooker wrote:
I've just seen the clip of mercer chasing down Marcus Smith. Jesus the lad has wheels and some engine


It looked like half of Bath were chasing Smith down, I suspect Smith just isn't that fast, he still looks very physically young, and probably hasn't had much sustained sprint training. Faletau arguably covers a greater distance than Mercer. As someone more cynical than myself pointed out, Bath coaches may be a bit more annoyed that two key players still had enough energy to do that, and perhaps should have been putting more into the previous 78 minutes. I think that's a bit harsh myself though! Haven't seen the game however.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:51 pm 
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Raggs wrote:
mr flaps wrote:
I wonder if we’ll ever get to see.

1. Genge
2. LCD
3. Sinkler


I was asking elsewhere who would be the least inspiring capped hooker that Eddie could choose (like Wiggles). Someone suggested Webber, but I'd much rather Webber than my suggestion of David Paice.


Had to laugh at Paice's yellow at the weekend to disappear further into the sunset in the disciplinary hall of fame.

Was pretty soft and the resigned 'oh FFS...' face he pulled when he copped the card, was fairly amusing. Bet he's looking forward to retirement.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:54 pm 
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Margin_Walker wrote:
Raggs wrote:
mr flaps wrote:
I wonder if we’ll ever get to see.

1. Genge
2. LCD
3. Sinkler


I was asking elsewhere who would be the least inspiring capped hooker that Eddie could choose (like Wiggles). Someone suggested Webber, but I'd much rather Webber than my suggestion of David Paice.


Had to laugh at Paice's yellow at the weekend to disappear further into the sunset in the disciplinary hall of fame.

Was pretty soft and the resigned 'oh FFS...' face he pulled when he copped the card, was fairly amusing. Bet he's looking forward to retirement.


Very soft, I rather suspect that Foley saw the challenge on WLR in the air on the screen after calling it just a penalty, and decided it was rather borderline to a yellow, and basically gave a yellow for the next semi serious offence.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:00 pm 
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Sorry if RR

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Hooker Hartley, 31, has tightness in his calf and will be monitored before Thursday's team announcement.

Exeter's Nowell rolled an ankle injury in training and will play no further part in the tournament.

Bath flanker Sam Underhill has also been ruled out of the France game


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:05 pm 
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LCD was training with England today :o


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:37 pm 
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happyhooker wrote:
I've just seen the clip of mercer chasing down Marcus Smith. Jesus the lad has wheels and some engine



Smith has terrible sprinting technique though. Plenty for him to work on.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:00 pm 
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Raggs wrote:
happyhooker wrote:
I've just seen the clip of mercer chasing down Marcus Smith. Jesus the lad has wheels and some engine


It looked like half of Bath were chasing Smith down, I suspect Smith just isn't that fast, he still looks very physically young, and probably hasn't had much sustained sprint training. Faletau arguably covers a greater distance than Mercer. As someone more cynical than myself pointed out, Bath coaches may be a bit more annoyed that two key players still had enough energy to do that, and perhaps should have been putting more into the previous 78 minutes. I think that's a bit harsh myself though! Haven't seen the game however.


I’m still scratching my head as to how Bath managed to lose that game, and by such a comprehensive score; completely dominated territory and possession for all but a brief period of the match and got turned over on the Quins line or held up over the line several times.

On a par with watching the Scotland match in terms of frustration (albeit without the dodgy refereeing calls).


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:10 pm 
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Joost wrote:
Raggs wrote:
happyhooker wrote:
I've just seen the clip of mercer chasing down Marcus Smith. Jesus the lad has wheels and some engine


It looked like half of Bath were chasing Smith down, I suspect Smith just isn't that fast, he still looks very physically young, and probably hasn't had much sustained sprint training. Faletau arguably covers a greater distance than Mercer. As someone more cynical than myself pointed out, Bath coaches may be a bit more annoyed that two key players still had enough energy to do that, and perhaps should have been putting more into the previous 78 minutes. I think that's a bit harsh myself though! Haven't seen the game however.


I’m still scratching my head as to how Bath managed to lose that game, and by such a comprehensive score; completely dominated territory and possession for all but a brief period of the match and got turned over on the Quins line or held up over the line several times.

On a par with watching the Scotland match in terms of frustration (albeit without the dodgy refereeing calls).


15 penalties, many of which were consecutive, no setpiece and a determination to cough the ball up every five seconds probably. Bath seem to only be able to go through phases and put teams under pressure when they're chasing a game, which is often.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:31 pm 
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Speaking of Quins and Bath; just confirmed that Ben Tapuai is on his way to Quins at the end of the year


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:44 pm 
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Joost wrote:
Speaking of Quins and Bath; just confirmed that Ben Tapuai is on his way to Quins at the end of the year


I must have lost my post in a whiteout- good business for quins? He always looks decent on tv.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:52 pm 
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If he's replacing Roberts, he could be the aforementioned Legohead and still be an upgrade.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:02 pm 
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DragsterDriver wrote:
Joost wrote:
Speaking of Quins and Bath; just confirmed that Ben Tapuai is on his way to Quins at the end of the year


I must have lost my post in a whiteout- good business for quins? He always looks decent on tv.


Last season, I’d have said so; looked to have the full range of skills and was surprisingly powerful in traffic for a relatively small guy. This season he’s played as a basher and his distribution and kicking game haven’t looked half as good. He’ll be a good signing if he can get back to his previous form.

Wonder who Bath are planning to pick up, should be plenty of space in the cap with BT and Banahan gone.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:33 pm 
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Reasonable article - pretty much what many of us have been saying on here.

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/breaking-english-rugby-contact-area


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:37 pm 
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ovalball wrote:
Reasonable article - pretty much what many of us have been saying on here.

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/breaking-english-rugby-contact-area


beat me to it

long read but hits the nail on the head, every major England defeat of the past 15 years has been because of us getting murdered at the breakdown

and it's usually followed by moronic comments like "England don't need an openside flanker, everyone should be doing that role" x(


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:52 pm 
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ovalball wrote:
Reasonable article - pretty much what many of us have been saying on here.

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/breaking-english-rugby-contact-area



No mention of Willis in an article where he name checks lots of players. I think Willis is so good at the breakdown for precisely the reason he says many of the other contenders aren't... he's still young and hasn't been over-coached. Yet.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:57 pm 
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I think it's time for the dream back line to be unleashed.

Wiggy
Ford

May
Te'o
JJ
Solomona
Watson

Change is as good as a feast.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:05 pm 
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Chips wrote:
ovalball wrote:
Reasonable article - pretty much what many of us have been saying on here.

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/breaking-english-rugby-contact-area



No mention of Willis in an article where he name checks lots of players. I think Willis is so good at the breakdown for precisely the reason he says many of the other contenders aren't... he's still young and hasn't been over-coached. Yet.


Yep, I also thought it was a very strange omission.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:08 pm 
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openclashXX wrote:
ovalball wrote:
Reasonable article - pretty much what many of us have been saying on here.

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/breaking-english-rugby-contact-area


beat me to it

long read but hits the nail on the head, every major England defeat of the past 15 years has been because of us getting murdered at the breakdown

and it's usually followed by moronic comments like "England don't need an openside flanker, everyone should be doing that role" x(


And changes to other personnel who weren't, primarily, responsible for the loss :(


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:11 pm 
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ovalball wrote:
openclashXX wrote:
ovalball wrote:
Reasonable article - pretty much what many of us have been saying on here.

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/breaking-english-rugby-contact-area


beat me to it

long read but hits the nail on the head, every major England defeat of the past 15 years has been because of us getting murdered at the breakdown

and it's usually followed by moronic comments like "England don't need an openside flanker, everyone should be doing that role" x(


And changes to other personnel who weren't, primarily, responsible for the loss :(



The observation about the refs is the main reason in there. AP needs refs from SR, P14 and T14 to manage games.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:49 am 
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Raggs wrote:
happyhooker wrote:
I've just seen the clip of mercer chasing down Marcus Smith. Jesus the lad has wheels and some engine


It looked like half of Bath were chasing Smith down, I suspect Smith just isn't that fast, he still looks very physically young, and probably hasn't had much sustained sprint training. Faletau arguably covers a greater distance than Mercer. As someone more cynical than myself pointed out, Bath coaches may be a bit more annoyed that two key players still had enough energy to do that, and perhaps should have been putting more into the previous 78 minutes. I think that's a bit harsh myself though! Haven't seen the game however.


Agree with that, mentioned a while back that he's great for making breaks but his top end speed is nothing to write home about. Pretty funny how many comments I've read saying how it proves he's not ready for top flight rugby though!

That rugbypass article is alright but strangely neglects to mention all the times we've smashed teams at the breakdown - plenty of England wins came with more turnovers and clean ball for us vs messy ball for the opposition.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:55 am 
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JM2K6 wrote:
Raggs wrote:
happyhooker wrote:
I've just seen the clip of mercer chasing down Marcus Smith. Jesus the lad has wheels and some engine


It looked like half of Bath were chasing Smith down, I suspect Smith just isn't that fast, he still looks very physically young, and probably hasn't had much sustained sprint training. Faletau arguably covers a greater distance than Mercer. As someone more cynical than myself pointed out, Bath coaches may be a bit more annoyed that two key players still had enough energy to do that, and perhaps should have been putting more into the previous 78 minutes. I think that's a bit harsh myself though! Haven't seen the game however.


Agree with that, mentioned a while back that he's great for making breaks but his top end speed is nothing to write home about. Pretty funny how many comments I've read saying how it proves he's not ready for top flight rugby though!

That rugbypass article is alright but strangely neglects to mention all the times we've smashed teams at the breakdown - plenty of England wins came with more turnovers and clean ball for us vs messy ball for the opposition.


Only going back to the Lancaster era, but the only time I remember us actually winning the breakdown battle to the point it won us the game, was against the ABs in 2012. Other than that, we've varied in success of generating our own quick ball, and rarely bothered the opposition, mostly settling for disrupting them with aggressive defense. And then as pointed out, the losses have come when we've failed to secure our own clean ball.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:06 am 
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Gut feeling is that Ford is going to be dropped.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:44 am 
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crash 669 wrote:
45jumper wrote:
Thought Sale were going to throw it away in the second half but thankfully we held on. :o
Some brilliant scores in the first half, the counterattack started by Yarde was especially good. Excellent to see Solomona back scoring tries, just a shame we couldn't have held on against Bath or we'd be in a really strong position coming into the home stretch. Unfortunately I think our remaining fixtures are a bit tricky to make it into the top six, which is really disappointing. :frown:


I saw the highlights of this last night - how the fudge did Sale manage to win with 30% possession and even less territory (according to Channel 5's stats)? I know you've got to be able to aggressively defend but those sort of numbers suggests they were deliberately playing without the ball, which against a decent team (I know it was only Tampon, but still) is suicide.

I was saying to Brazil that I think it's Diamond's time to move on. He's built a great side, but has taken it as far as he can. Now we need someone getting them playing to their potential and they'll be genuine top 4 contenders, where right now they're less than the sum of their parts.


It was a bizarre game. Saints actually didn't play too badly, Sale's counterattacking was superb though. We seem happy to rope-a-dope teams, fanning across the pitch, leaving the breakdown well alone, waiting for a mistake to come and capitalising. The problem comes when you face a team like Sarries who just do not make mistakes, leaving us tackling ourselves to a standstill without the ball and looking completely clueless on how to break them down when we do have it.


Raggs wrote:
Diamond should get another season or two, now he has money, to see if he can make it work.

I get the feeling his specialty is getting the best out of youngsters for a few seasons, and then moving on to the next one, whilst rarely getting them to the absolute top level. However, he's not had the luxury of having those players surrounded by talent to drive them further, now he has that, and that may well be the difference. If those young players have serious talent to learn off of, they may be able to totake it to the next level.


I'm torn about Diamond. The second half at the weekend was a complete shambles and our inability to press home an advantage or hold onto a lead has long been a problem. We lose discipline, become passive and his use of the subs is frankly abysmal. Our away record - the weekend excepted - has also been pathetic and you get the impression Dimes doesn't really care about those games, though that does seem to be changing.
However, as you say, I reckon he deserves a proper shot now he has proper backing. He's performed near miracles with such a limited budget for a while and his signings have generally been superb. The point about the youngsters is a good one and we have a hell of a good crop coming through. For the first time in a long time we seem to have some forward planning with Moore ready to deputise for Strauss, the Currys fighting for the 7 shirt, Nott in the second row (though his limited gametime is disappointing) and Neild moving to Hooker.
He's said we won't sign any backs this summer (though I still remain hopeful for Van Rensburg at the end of the Super Rugby season) and even with Haley leaving, I'm not entirely sure we need anyone. I can see Addison moving to fullback with Redpath/Wilkinson stepping up from the academy to compete in the senior squad. The lack of a backup ten is a concern but if JOC beds in a bit more we should be alright there. All in all we're in really good shape. If we don't make the top 6 next season then I'd definitely be asking questions though.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:13 am 
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DragsterDriver wrote:
Gut feeling is that Ford is going to be dropped.


And pay the price for us having a dysfunctional backrow and two front rowers who do F.all in the loose. :x


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:14 am 
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ovalball wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Gut feeling is that Ford is going to be dropped.


And pay the price for us having a dysfunctional backrow and two front rowers who do F.all in the loose. :x


Define loose?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:20 am 
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I have no basis for my guess tbf.

The return of the manu thing- I don’t think he’s a better player than teo, is he better than basteraud?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:22 am 
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Raggs wrote:
ovalball wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Gut feeling is that Ford is going to be dropped.


And pay the price for us having a dysfunctional backrow and two front rowers who do F.all in the loose. :x


Define loose?



Like lose but with more oo


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:18 am 
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45jumper wrote:
It was a bizarre game. Saints actually didn't play too badly.


We were absolute shite in the first half, embarrassingly bad. By the time we started to play a bit in the second half you were 31-6 up.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:17 pm 
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Sam Vesty announced as attack coach at Saints for 2018-19


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:43 pm 
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That's a great signing, he's been really impressive at Worcester :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:23 pm 
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Raggs wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
Raggs wrote:
happyhooker wrote:
I've just seen the clip of mercer chasing down Marcus Smith. Jesus the lad has wheels and some engine


It looked like half of Bath were chasing Smith down, I suspect Smith just isn't that fast, he still looks very physically young, and probably hasn't had much sustained sprint training. Faletau arguably covers a greater distance than Mercer. As someone more cynical than myself pointed out, Bath coaches may be a bit more annoyed that two key players still had enough energy to do that, and perhaps should have been putting more into the previous 78 minutes. I think that's a bit harsh myself though! Haven't seen the game however.


Agree with that, mentioned a while back that he's great for making breaks but his top end speed is nothing to write home about. Pretty funny how many comments I've read saying how it proves he's not ready for top flight rugby though!

That rugbypass article is alright but strangely neglects to mention all the times we've smashed teams at the breakdown - plenty of England wins came with more turnovers and clean ball for us vs messy ball for the opposition.


Only going back to the Lancaster era, but the only time I remember us actually winning the breakdown battle to the point it won us the game, was against the ABs in 2012. Other than that, we've varied in success of generating our own quick ball, and rarely bothered the opposition, mostly settling for disrupting them with aggressive defense. And then as pointed out, the losses have come when we've failed to secure our own clean ball.


We've comprehensively won the breakdown battle under both Eddie and Lancaster against Australia, for a stay, even with the Aussie sides having the kind of fetcher that gets used as a stick to beat English rugby with.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:26 pm 
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JM2K6 wrote:
We've comprehensively won the breakdown battle under both Eddie and Lancaster against Australia, for a stay, even with the Aussie sides having the kind of fetcher that gets used as a stick to beat English rugby with.


I'd say that was more we didn't lose it. I don't recall us making life particularly hard for the Aussies, but we did secure our own ball well.

We don't need to screw other teams up at the breakdown to beat them, but we do need our own good ball, which is what we were missing against Scotland.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:06 pm 
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Raggs wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
We've comprehensively won the breakdown battle under both Eddie and Lancaster against Australia, for a stay, even with the Aussie sides having the kind of fetcher that gets used as a stick to beat English rugby with.


I'd say that was more we didn't lose it. I don't recall us making life particularly hard for the Aussies, but we did secure our own ball well.

We don't need to screw other teams up at the breakdown to beat them, but we do need our own good ball, which is what we were missing against Scotland.


We've had games where we've run over them at the breakdown, giving them static ball to get eaten up with, and where our own rucks have been so accurate we've rarely had to commit more than a single supporting player. Under both coaches we've emphasised being highly judicious with how many players go into rucks and it's worked pretty well. It's hard to get away with that if you're not good at the breakdown and when it fails it tends to fail spectacularly.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:13 pm 
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Lawes and robshaw doesn’t compare well with Haskell and robshaw- and they’re now a couple of years older than the 3-0 demolition of Australia.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:30 pm 
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Oh, totally. Not saying we don't currently have a problem, just disagreeing with the idea that we managed to win a bucket load of games in the last six years while never beating teams at the breakdown


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:46 pm 
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We do seem more focused on winning contact than the breakdown, though there are always trade offs on how a given strategy is resourced, and that feeds into our selection too.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:48 pm 
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Saint wrote:
Sam Vesty announced as attack coach at Saints for 2018-19


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