Planet Rugby Forum

I hope your right and objectively Scotland have the win in them..I just wonder if the elation of the win two weeks ago will make it hard for them to get their heads in the game especially away from home.

tc27 wrote:Its a certainty that Scotland are going to roll over for Ireland tomorrow isnt it.....

If the Scots were out of contention for the 6N I'd be inclined to agree (they always want to stop us winning), but if Scotland got a big win then they'd put themselves in prime position to win the 6N- which would seem bizarre considering what this was place was like after Wales vs Scotland

RodneyRegis wrote:

Rugby2023 wrote:

tc27 wrote:I honestly think the whole 'drop Ford and bugger up one of the working combinations to achieve it' is based largely on the impression that Ford is not manly enough and doesn't kick goals.

Its f**king bizarre.

I wouldn't be for moving Farrell to 10, he is a driving force at 12, but equally Ford isn't doing anything. The way people some people talk about him doesn't match up to his performances at all. I think some people like him just for not being Farrell.

He is little better than Ronan O'Gara in defence. He rarely makes breaks or even half-breaks. He appears to wilt entirely in the big test matches and is getting subbed recently. He can pass, well he's a flyhalf so...and he can put in the odd good tactical kick, not that often mind. People talk about vision, what good is it if it's not significantly impacting the game and it isn't.

I wouldn't be dropping Ford either, but more because there's no one else rather than anything he's actually doing.

Well...

He passes ridiculously flat on the gainline. His tactical kicking is top notch, he defends just fine for a 10. He reads the game well and brings multiple options into the game with his excellent passing.

Unfortunately he can't win the game on his own off the back foot when his back row are getting manshamed...

I would agree with you on the breaks thing, but it seems Eddie doesn't want his half backs to offer any sustained running threat.

I'm actually happy with the current situation but not sold on Ford's kicking from hand. When there is no pressure (ie much weaker opposition, England in comfortable place on scoreboard) it is but when under pressure it's not eg Scotland straight to Hogg and Russell in lots of space and time (so no hang time) each time which was perfect for the Scots and in other matches often the same or errors on the full - with the pressure off though those kicks suddenly metamorphose into wonderful touch finds or turning the screw. Also restarts are down what I'd hope, again lacking hang time to put pressure on. I do however think he is a better defender than given credit for, while not a big hitter, he is getting driven back less in the tackle now and does make his tackles.

I'm expecting a Jock capitulation and a five pointer for Ireland this weekend

Ireland at home at the breakdown in terms of intensity and accuracy is a totally different prospect to them away

Xin wrote:

RodneyRegis wrote:

Rugby2023 wrote:

tc27 wrote:I honestly think the whole 'drop Ford and bugger up one of the working combinations to achieve it' is based largely on the impression that Ford is not manly enough and doesn't kick goals.

Its f**king bizarre.

I wouldn't be for moving Farrell to 10, he is a driving force at 12, but equally Ford isn't doing anything. The way people some people talk about him doesn't match up to his performances at all. I think some people like him just for not being Farrell.

He is little better than Ronan O'Gara in defence. He rarely makes breaks or even half-breaks. He appears to wilt entirely in the big test matches and is getting subbed recently. He can pass, well he's a flyhalf so...and he can put in the odd good tactical kick, not that often mind. People talk about vision, what good is it if it's not significantly impacting the game and it isn't.

I wouldn't be dropping Ford either, but more because there's no one else rather than anything he's actually doing.

Well...

He passes ridiculously flat on the gainline. His tactical kicking is top notch, he defends just fine for a 10. He reads the game well and brings multiple options into the game with his excellent passing.

Unfortunately he can't win the game on his own off the back foot when his back row are getting manshamed...

I would agree with you on the breaks thing, but it seems Eddie doesn't want his half backs to offer any sustained running threat.

I'm actually happy with the current situation but not sold on Ford's kicking from hand. When there is no pressure (ie much weaker opposition, England in comfortable place on scoreboard) it is but when under pressure it's not eg Scotland straight to Hogg and Russell in lots of space and time (so no hang time) each time which was perfect for the Scots and in other matches often the same or errors on the full - with the pressure off though those kicks suddenly metamorphose into wonderful touch finds or turning the screw. Also restarts are down what I'd hope, again lacking hang time to put pressure on. I do however think he is a better defender than given credit for, while not a big hitter, he is getting driven back less in the tackle now and does make his tackles.

Our problems don't stem from the FF axis - yes, they could both offer a bigger threat with ball in hand, but, in terms of our weaknesses they are well down the pecking order - The abortion that is our back row and the weaknesses in our front row are far bigger problems. Even our ponderous SHs aren't the ones that have caused our two losses.

Get the breakdown sorted and the backs will look far better - get some go forward from the pack, and they'll look excellent.

Xin wrote:

RodneyRegis wrote:

Rugby2023 wrote:

tc27 wrote:I honestly think the whole 'drop Ford and bugger up one of the working combinations to achieve it' is based largely on the impression that Ford is not manly enough and doesn't kick goals.

Its f**king bizarre.

I wouldn't be for moving Farrell to 10, he is a driving force at 12, but equally Ford isn't doing anything. The way people some people talk about him doesn't match up to his performances at all. I think some people like him just for not being Farrell.

He is little better than Ronan O'Gara in defence. He rarely makes breaks or even half-breaks. He appears to wilt entirely in the big test matches and is getting subbed recently. He can pass, well he's a flyhalf so...and he can put in the odd good tactical kick, not that often mind. People talk about vision, what good is it if it's not significantly impacting the game and it isn't.

I wouldn't be dropping Ford either, but more because there's no one else rather than anything he's actually doing.

Well...

He passes ridiculously flat on the gainline. His tactical kicking is top notch, he defends just fine for a 10. He reads the game well and brings multiple options into the game with his excellent passing.

Unfortunately he can't win the game on his own off the back foot when his back row are getting manshamed...

I would agree with you on the breaks thing, but it seems Eddie doesn't want his half backs to offer any sustained running threat.

I'm actually happy with the current situation but not sold on Ford's kicking from hand. When there is no pressure (ie much weaker opposition, England in comfortable place on scoreboard) it is but when under pressure it's not eg Scotland straight to Hogg and Russell in lots of space and time (so no hang time) each time which was perfect for the Scots and in other matches often the same or errors on the full - with the pressure off though those kicks suddenly metamorphose into wonderful touch finds or turning the screw. Also restarts are down what I'd hope, again lacking hang time to put pressure on. I do however think he is a better defender than given credit for, while not a big hitter, he is getting driven back less in the tackle now and does make his tackles.

So much of the criticism I read on here seems to be about players who I assume are playing to a plan. I just don't believe that a guy who spends his whole life can't put a restart on a sixpence 9 times out of 10. Surely Ford is being told to kick long so we take some territory and put pressure on the receiver, rather than unable to accurately put up a contestable kick from a static position under no pressure? Similarly I don't think Care becomes unable to spot a gap when he puts on an England shirt, he's been told not to snipe much. It's like ejaculating every time Billy makes the most carries - all the play goes through him so unless he's sitting on the touchline he makes the most carries by default.

tc27 wrote:I hope your right and objectively Scotland have the win in them..I just wonder if the elation of the win two weeks ago will make it hard for them to get their heads in the game especially away from home.

Ireland are clear favourites. But Scotland beat England with very little coming directly from Hogg, on any given day Hogg might get you two tries that aren't really on and whilst Scotland might need just that it isn't mission impossible.

Xin wrote: I do however think he is a better defender than given credit for, while not a big hitter, he is getting driven back less in the tackle now and does make his tackles.

Ford does give up ground in contact, really how could he not. Scotland have just shown though you can give up ground in contact and have your flankers swoop in, on the off chance you pick flankers anyway.

There's not many fly halves around who don't give up ground to ball carriers twice their size.

piquant wrote:I don't think so, indeed they beat them in the last 6N, albeit tomorrow it's at the Aviva. Scotland do need a new model of staying in the game though, Ireland will not give such easy chances to contest their rucks, and whilst Ireland tend to need a decent number of rucks to actually score any points they're unlikely to prove as toothless as England.

Ireland were as crap as England in their visit to Murrayfield last season. At home they're an entirely different animal as are Scotland on the road. Stephen Ferris called it when he said that Scotland would need to get every decision and that was highly unlikely in Dublin.

openclashXX wrote:I'm expecting a Jock capitulation and a five pointer for Ireland this weekend

Ireland at home at the breakdown in terms of intensity and accuracy is a totally different prospect to them away

Virtual certainty imo, Scotland have probably had their "Cup final" so to speak.

Even if Ireland only manage a non-BP win, England still really need a 5 pointer with some p/d thrown in to have any real chance of winning the title at Twickenham.

I don’t think Ireland or England winning is a certainty?

Just watching a bit of saints v bath- broussow appears to be made of glass, hopefully not another bum signing.

Rugby2023 wrote:

openclashXX wrote:I'm expecting a Jock capitulation and a five pointer for Ireland this weekend

Ireland at home at the breakdown in terms of intensity and accuracy is a totally different prospect to them away

Virtual certainty imo, Scotland have probably had their "Cup final" so to speak.

Even if Ireland only manage a non-BP win, England still really need a 5 pointer with some p/d thrown in to have any real chance of winning the title at Twickenham.

Both games tomorrow are very hard to call.

Unless Ireland get a bonus point win which would make it impossible to catch them, there is still everything to play for and England need to go hell for leather for the bonus point.

Scotland could do us a favour, but I think that’s less likely.

That said, I don’t think Ireland are as good as they’re being built up to be. They struggled against France and Stockdale’s last minute intercept try put the gloss on the win against Wales which was in the balance until the end of the game.

If Scotland play at their best, they know they are capable of beating Ireland and Wales showed that Ireland are not impregnable at the Aviva.

As for us, we just need to go for it. Anything less than a convincing win is not good enough.

What was odd about Ireland Vs France was the number of one out passes the Irish made. And it's far from the only time they've run that game against France. Yes Ireland want to control the ruck, and control a lot of them, but they seem to take it to extreme against Les Bleus

Scrumhead wrote:Both games tomorrow are very hard to call.

Unless Ireland get a bonus point win which would make it impossible to catch them, there is still everything to play for and England need to go hell for leather for the bonus point.

If Ireland get a BP win they're on 19 points. England can finish on 19 points if they BP France & Ireland.

Basically, unless Ireland drop a BP tomorrow England have to hammer France and Ireland to secure the title on points difference win.

Open to any correction.

I'd like to beat France and Ireland of course, but now the slam is gone I don't really care if we finish 1st or 2nd, it's more about the side delivering coherent performances

As I have said, let us concentrate on ruining St Patrick's Day by stuffing an Irish Grand Slam, with the attendant glee that accompanies us f**king it up.

Xin wrote:

RodneyRegis wrote:

Rugby2023 wrote:

tc27 wrote:I honestly think the whole 'drop Ford and bugger up one of the working combinations to achieve it' is based largely on the impression that Ford is not manly enough and doesn't kick goals.

Its f**king bizarre.

I wouldn't be for moving Farrell to 10, he is a driving force at 12, but equally Ford isn't doing anything. The way people some people talk about him doesn't match up to his performances at all. I think some people like him just for not being Farrell.

He is little better than Ronan O'Gara in defence. He rarely makes breaks or even half-breaks. He appears to wilt entirely in the big test matches and is getting subbed recently. He can pass, well he's a flyhalf so...and he can put in the odd good tactical kick, not that often mind. People talk about vision, what good is it if it's not significantly impacting the game and it isn't.

I wouldn't be dropping Ford either, but more because there's no one else rather than anything he's actually doing.

Well...

He passes ridiculously flat on the gainline. His tactical kicking is top notch, he defends just fine for a 10. He reads the game well and brings multiple options into the game with his excellent passing.

Unfortunately he can't win the game on his own off the back foot when his back row are getting manshamed...

I would agree with you on the breaks thing, but it seems Eddie doesn't want his half backs to offer any sustained running threat.

I'm actually happy with the current situation but not sold on Ford's kicking from hand. When there is no pressure (ie much weaker opposition, England in comfortable place on scoreboard) it is but when under pressure it's not eg Scotland straight to Hogg and Russell in lots of space and time (so no hang time) each time which was perfect for the Scots and in other matches often the same or errors on the full - with the pressure off though those kicks suddenly metamorphose into wonderful touch finds or turning the screw. Also restarts are down what I'd hope, again lacking hang time to put pressure on. I do however think he is a better defender than given credit for, while not a big hitter, he is getting driven back less in the tackle now and does make his tackles.

Slowly the English public wake up to the myth of George Ford.







He'll be sublime and mom just to spite me now. Though I doubt it.

Alternatively, it's weird how there's a handful of people who bleat about George Ford as soon as they get a chance, but go very quiet for the large number of games where he's good-to-great.

JM2K6 wrote:Alternatively, it's weird how there's a handful of people who bleat about George Ford as soon as they get a chance, but go very quiet for the large number of games where he's good-to-great.

No point banging on about it here where most posters highly rate him. It's nice to encourage others if they begin to see the light though.

pandion wrote:

JM2K6 wrote:Alternatively, it's weird how there's a handful of people who bleat about George Ford as soon as they get a chance, but go very quiet for the large number of games where he's good-to-great.

No point banging on about it here where most posters highly rate him. It's nice to encourage others if they begin to see the light though.

You sound like DAC.

Soft red for Timmy Harrison, not really impressed with Catts football behaviour either.

Agreed. However, the whole incident including the ‘headbutt’ was very football-esque.

When people are watching someone like Ford in the 12221 system we use with no significant carrying options tending to be in the 12 or 13 shirt what are you expecting to see? I think Ford (along with Farrell) does a pretty good job calling the attacks and he really engages the defence. If more positive things aren't happening inside and outside him he can't suddenly respond to that by making 5 linebreaks a game. The kicking could improve, but there are more problems at 9 than with Ford

Nasty double spear tackle in the France/England u20s game last night.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... 20s-grand/

Potentially very nasty. It’s lucky he turned in the air, otherwise he was going down on the top of his head.

Fucking hell.

How did the half backs do in the u20s? After the decent performance against bath in LV cup from Hardwick and White I was hoping they would get more game time at Tigers.

Petej wrote:How did the half backs do in the u20s? After the decent performance against bath in LV cup from Hardwick and White I was hoping they would get more game time at Tigers.

Hardwick was better than White for me. Can tell he's the son of a prop. Doesn't mind the physical stuff and decent from the tee. White was a little underwhelming.

Yeah the 10 looked really mature, Dingwall played well.

It was quite an un-flashy team performance really.

Margin_Walker wrote:

Petej wrote:How did the half backs do in the u20s? After the decent performance against bath in LV cup from Hardwick and White I was hoping they would get more game time at Tigers.

Hardwick was better than White for me. Can tell he's the son of a prop. Doesn't mind the physical stuff and decent from the tee. White was a little underwhelming.

Robin Hardwick’s son, presumably? Really is depressing when players-from-my-youth’s sons start appearing on the scene!

Given our backrow issues, I’m putting together a Tom Ellis bandwagon - was superb against Saints last night after nearly a year out.

From hearing it being described, I'd assumed Catt had dropped to the floor or something. Stupid from Teimana, and don't blame Catt for pointing it out to be honest. Little more than what Hartley did to George (that was less than this in my mind), but you can't do it, and if you do, you're bloody stupid and deserve what you get regardless.

shocking"tackle" fair play to the ref

englishchief wrote:

tc27 wrote:Its a certainty that Scotland are going to roll over for Ireland tomorrow isnt it.....

If the Scots were out of contention for the 6N I'd be inclined to agree (they always want to stop us winning), but if Scotland got a big win then they'd put themselves in prime position to win the 6N- which would seem bizarre considering what this was place was like after Wales vs Scotland

They'll get flattened I fear. Would be absolutely classic

Here comes the Scotland capitulation

On the other hand it's raining turnovers at the breakdown and guess which numbered shirts are winning the bulk of them

The Man Without Fear wrote:As I have said, let us concentrate on ruining St Patrick's Day by stuffing an Irish Grand Slam, with the attendant glee that accompanies us f**king it up.

Definitely now anyway ... I would be amazed if we got bonus point wins against France and Ireland. It would be incredible, but highly unlikely.

England got to go for it now. Taking it into the final week would be something.

I really hope we see a massive reaction to that rather unedifying non performance against Scotland and take it to France with some real fury.

Gospel wrote:I really hope we see a massive reaction to that rather unedifying non performance against Scotland and take it to France with some real fury.

Time to turn it on

Gospel wrote:I really hope we see a massive reaction to that rather unedifying non performance against Scotland and take it to France with some real fury.