Planet Rugby Forum

Lawes was poor yet still made more metres and more tackles than any other forward. He's not a 6 and never will be, and Eddie's insistence on playing him there is making him and the whole back row shit.

JM2K6 wrote:

Joost wrote:

JM2K6 wrote:

Joost wrote:It’s commendable of you to defend your man JM, but anyone with a clear mind can see that it’s time for Matt Kvesic to come into the side...

It's with a heavy heart that I must agree with you. It's time. I'll make the call to Rob Baxter and tell him to give Matt a shot at the shirt.

The Exeter shirt or the England shirt?

I hope you're not suggesting that the boy wonder can't nail down a starting spot ahead of a blindside and Julian Salvi...

this is really top quality deflection - tell me more about how well Robshaw played today

Wendigo7 wrote:

It's not all Eddie's fault though. He got the selection wrong yes, but he's inherited a system let's be frank, isn't producing any good backrowers of real note.

We're clinging to the likes of Willis, Underhill etc, but nothing to justify them long term matching the likes of Leavy, O'Brien, Warburton and co. No one is being produced who's anything like that.

‘The likes of Leavy, O’Brien, Warburton’ who’s are all significantly older and more established than Willis, Underhill, the Curry twins etc.

Let’s give them until 24 or 25 until we write them off. That’s 3 or 4 years away BTW.

openclashXX wrote:

JM2K6 wrote:

Wendigo7 wrote:

openclashXX wrote:

RodneyRegis wrote:Robshaw is our best 6, clearly.

no other country would consider a player lacking pace, power and breakdown impact as their "best 6, clearly"

by the end of the game the sight of Robshaw draped across the back of yet another French player that had beaten him to the ruck and straining as he failed to wrestle them off while the ref blew for the umpteenth penalty was sad

He might need dropping, but his effort at the very bloody least to get to everything if he can, when Lawes, arguably Itoje, George and especially f**king Cole don't is also potentially masking up issues elsewhere in the side.

History speaks for itself when it comes to clash on this stuff. Must admit it's a brave call to make out Robshaw is totally ineffectual at the breakdown when he gets there, given how many turnovers he won today, but clash always, ALWAYS over-eggs it when it comes to the guy he loves to hate.

go down swinging

The genuinely dumb thing is everyone would agree with you that for the second week in a row we were badly exposed by relying on Robshaw to do the part of the 7's role that involves supporting the ruck before everyone else, but you had to go and spin that into "dreadful player who's totally lost it and offers nothing, is weak, struggles to open jars unaided, possibly suffering from cancer-AIDS, and bullies small children in his spare time"

There's been little to suggest he's not still an excellent option at 6 for England, his breakdown work on defence today was excellent, he still pops up where you wouldn't expect him to, and he's still a fine player. As POC pointed out.

Let’s drop the only player who actually does anything decent and call-up Matt Kvesic who struggles to get in Exeter’s AW Cup side. Good idea

openclashXX wrote:

Joost wrote:

JM2K6 wrote:

Joost wrote:It’s commendable of you to defend your man JM, but anyone with a clear mind can see that it’s time for Matt Kvesic to come into the side...

It's with a heavy heart that I must agree with you. It's time. I'll make the call to Rob Baxter and tell him to give Matt a shot at the shirt.

The Exeter shirt or the England shirt...?

I believe that was the joke

although I've since moved on from Kvesic for England (great a player as he is) - more value in pushing either of the Curry twins these days

Given how the bored is going, I had taken it as read that Eddie will be sacked and that Baxter will be in place by next week!

JM2K6 wrote: he still pops up where you wouldn't expect him to

that's the thing about being glacially slow, nobody expects you to turn up anywhere

honestly it's pretty hilarious seeing this sort of spin from the Quins fans on here - and we haven't even begun to talk about Care yet

it's going to be a fun week

openclashXX wrote:

JM2K6 wrote: he still pops up where you wouldn't expect him to

that's the thing about being glacially slow, nobody expects you to turn up anywhere

honestly it's pretty hilarious seeing this sort of spin from the Quins fans on here - and we haven't even begun to talk about Care yet

it's going to be a fun week

So how was Itoje and Wiggles this week?

Has Jamie George got off the plane from NZ yet?

Well, I'm glad at least someone is happy we lost

Shall we talk about George, Mako, Farrell and the ex Sarries coaching team all performing poorly instead?

just need TMWF and RodneyRetard for the full house

openclashXX wrote:just need TMWF and RodneyRetard for the full house

Hey!

Oh.

Not surprised tbf- I thought we’d lose.
Too many bails And run arounds in the backs.
Arrogant back row selection again.
George played like a tub of lard.
Danny Care.
Subs all done at 70mins and daly was injured and couldn’t run.
Peyper kept mako on the pitch at scrum, slimani must be fumin’

A lot of our players aren’t as dynamic as the opposition, sinckler, Simmonds and LCD are moving at the right speed to compete.

How stubborn will Eddie be in selection?

What's Jamie George & Maro Itoje's favourite sporting DVD?

The saracens lads have been poor

I’m going with tiredness rather that shitness

Just how many times has Courtney Lawes coughed up the ball this championship? It must be more than any other player

SamShark wrote:The saracens lads have been poor

I’m going with tiredness rather that shitness

There's only so long one club can prop up a national team AND the Lions for without eventually giving way

Time for the mighty Harlequins to step up fill the void - I've heard good things about this Jack Chisholm in the back row

A combination of Jack Willis and James Chisholm would be some player tbf

Ok just seen the post match with Eddie- FairPlay backing the team but I hope he’s not going ‘comical ali’ on us.

JM2K6 wrote:A combination of Jack Willis and James Chisholm would be some player tbf

Jism?

Keith wrote:

bimboman wrote:

Keith wrote:

bimboman wrote:

Keith wrote:To me is clear that we only have one world class player - Elliott Daly

Stop being silly.

Name the others. If you mention Farrell....

Launchbury , Itoji, Farrell, George was a winner in a Lions shirt. So knob off.

Itoje, Farrell and George have been dreadful all championship.

Launch has been decent, but he's not world class

Probably not a coincidence Eddie/England's success over last couple of years coincided with core of Sarries players that were at the top of their game. By last year's semi against Exeter they were clearly knackered (with the exception of Billy). Kruis dropped off the cliff from that point, the others managed to raise their game for the Lions, but at some point they were bound to show a dip. Although Owen had the AI rest and Maro had time out from playing with his broken jaw, they all probably need a month away from the game.

DragsterDriver wrote:

JM2K6 wrote:A combination of Jack Willis and James Chisholm would be some player tbf

Jism?

Would be hard not to

Scrumhead wrote:Let’s drop the only player who actually does anything decent and call-up Matt Kvesic who struggles to get in Exeter’s AW Cup side. Good idea

A yeoman like effort, rubbish but lots of effort. Forget Kvesic for for and pick Haskell to start at 7. By all means pick Robshaw at 6 , Lawes doesn't work there again we knew this 5 years ago.

I can’t remember the poster that said after the Wales’s game that we’d lose the next three.

I strongly disagreed at the time, but he know looks like he’ll be right. Fair play to you sir whoever you were.

I have to say that is one of the worst attacking performances by an English side in years. Defensively they played very well all be it against a powerful but limited French side.

I thought Robshaw and Lawes played very well - Robshaw was crying out for quicker support several times (as well as needing more pace himself), Mako tried hard to little effect, Launch was quiet and Itoje patchy. Launchburys worst performance in an England shirt too.

attacking wise nothing came off at all. The wingers got nothing til late on where they showed some class. Watson at 15 is wasted, Brown would have at least added some impetus and menace to the attack.

Subs changed it, Sinkler, Hask and Joseph went well and added momentum, Thought Marler and LCD (one lineout apart) were decent. Even Wiggles was an upgrade on Care today

Cole was an empty shirt, When you are getting murdered at the tackle area, leaning on isn't good enough.

Ref seemed to let a lot go at ruck time in terms of players going off feet and not supporting their own weight. England didn't adjust to this until late on by which time its too late

Tactically as well, why run near Bastereaud? his speed of release and jackal is something else - BOD'esque Also when Eddie reverted to playing backrow in the backrow .
things got a bit better

Scrumhead wrote:I can’t remember the poster that said after the Wales’s game that we’d lose the next three.

I strongly disagreed at the time, but he know looks like he’ll be right. Fair play to you sir whoever you were.

ovallball, I think.

Not confident, but don't discount the difficulty of playing away from home for everyone.

bimboman wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:Let’s drop the only player who actually does anything decent and call-up Matt Kvesic who struggles to get in Exeter’s AW Cup side. Good idea

A yeoman like effort, rubbish but lots of effort. Forget Kvesic for for and pick Haskell to start at 7. By all means pick Robshaw at 6 , Lawes doesn't work there again we knew this 5 years ago.

I never suggested we pick Robshaw at 7. I just find it bizarre to pick on him when he was out best back row player by a mile (regardless of the number on his shirt).

100% agree re. Lawes.

How different would things have been if Daly, Faz, Itoje, Lawes, Cole, Marler, Watson and George had been managed the same way as the Irish player after the Lions tour? They all look shagged.

JM2K6 wrote:What's Jamie George & Maro Itoje's favourite sporting DVD?

Spoiler: show

Living Off The Lions

Who,would have thought they were tired post the return. It's notmlikemthats happened before.

JM2K6 wrote:A combination of Jack Willis and James Chisholm would be some player tbf

Indeed - let's hope these young bucks get picked at some stage too rather than getting the Wilson/Kvesic treatment

I'm not sure how much more you can squeeze out of Sarries for England than you already have - although Isiekwe has been playing 6 recently and there's still Jackson Wray and Callum Clark to go

openclashXX wrote:

JM2K6 wrote:A combination of Jack Willis and James Chisholm would be some player tbf

Indeed - let's hope these young bucks get picked at some stage too rather than getting the Wilson/Kvesic treatment

I'm not sure how much more you can squeeze out of Sarries for England than you already have - although Isiekwe has been playing 6 recently and there's still Jackson Wray and Callum Clark to go

Rhodes

openclashXX wrote:

JM2K6 wrote:A combination of Jack Willis and James Chisholm would be some player tbf

Indeed - let's hope these young bucks get picked at some stage too rather than getting the Wilson/Kvesic treatment

I'm not sure how much more you can squeeze out of Sarries for England than you already have - although Isiekwe has been playing 6 recently and there's still Jackson Wray and Callum Clark to go

Think Eddie's gonna start mining the Exeter seam now.

I was hoping for a big reaction but after first 10 mins and remembering how Peyper refs I knew we were in trouble.

Mako - looks knackered, I know he always looked knackered but properly knackered. Like a lot of players he seems to be suffering deep fatigue and his ball carrying/ distribution was vital to this side. He never seems to play as well without his brother in the side.

Better performance from Itoje, good lineout steals but seemed to fade.

Backrow is a horror show in terms of balance. I thought Robshaw was our most effective starting forward, always going to run the risk of giving away penalties if no-one else seems to be doing anything at the ruck/tackle.

Care was dreadful, not easy but he offered no threat all game and if he's not doing that then what is the point, his defence, kicking game and decision making is never strong.

Cole, just not any more. I'd start with Williams and have Sinks be the impact player he can be. If Sinks starts vs Ireland he won't last till half time before getting yellowed or red card.

We have been thought out in the tackle area and on attack. Need something new, but more importantly than anything we need Billy back and we need to rest the players

Really need a reaction back home.

Scrumhead wrote:

bimboman wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:Let’s drop the only player who actually does anything decent and call-up Matt Kvesic who struggles to get in Exeter’s AW Cup side. Good idea

A yeoman like effort, rubbish but lots of effort. Forget Kvesic for for and pick Haskell to start at 7. By all means pick Robshaw at 6 , Lawes doesn't work there again we knew this 5 years ago.

I never suggested we pick Robshaw at 7. I just find it bizarre to pick on him when he was out best back row player by a mile (regardless of the number on his shirt).

100% agree re. Lawes.

The problem is however hard Robshaw works he brings other problems which knock on across the pack and particularly in the 10 channel. We know this.

IIRC in the lead into the last WC some bright spark sent the England players on a fitness camp - Billy losing a stone just prior to the competition was seen as an achievement. Eddie has said the players need to be fitter - is there any chance he is flogging them in training, knowing it will drag down performance now, but with the longer-term goal in sight?

JM2K6 wrote:

openclashXX wrote:

JM2K6 wrote:A combination of Jack Willis and James Chisholm would be some player tbf

Indeed - let's hope these young bucks get picked at some stage too rather than getting the Wilson/Kvesic treatment

I'm not sure how much more you can squeeze out of Sarries for England than you already have - although Isiekwe has been playing 6 recently and there's still Jackson Wray and Callum Clark to go

Think Eddie's gonna start mining the Exeter seam now.

Surely he's not going to overlook the likes of Archie White and Dino Lamb Korma before that? Don't forget the rich vein of half back talent at your end too - perhaps it's time England adopt the Care-Lewis double whammy

openclashXX wrote:

JM2K6 wrote:

openclashXX wrote:

JM2K6 wrote:A combination of Jack Willis and James Chisholm would be some player tbf

Indeed - let's hope these young bucks get picked at some stage too rather than getting the Wilson/Kvesic treatment

I'm not sure how much more you can squeeze out of Sarries for England than you already have - although Isiekwe has been playing 6 recently and there's still Jackson Wray and Callum Clark to go

Think Eddie's gonna start mining the Exeter seam now.

Surely he's not going to overlook the likes of Archie White and Dino Lamb Korma before that? Don't forget the rich vein of half back talent at your end too - perhaps it's time England adopt the Care-Lewis double whammy

Now that's a low blow

A few people enjoying the anger wanks a bit too much, I fear.

Opens been 2 years in the making apparently

time for the end of the ford / faz partnership?