Planet Rugby Forum

JM2K6 wrote:

openclashXX wrote:

JM2K6 wrote:

openclashXX wrote:

JM2K6 wrote:A combination of Jack Willis and James Chisholm would be some player tbf

Indeed - let's hope these young bucks get picked at some stage too rather than getting the Wilson/Kvesic treatment

I'm not sure how much more you can squeeze out of Sarries for England than you already have - although Isiekwe has been playing 6 recently and there's still Jackson Wray and Callum Clark to go

Think Eddie's gonna start mining the Exeter seam now.

Surely he's not going to overlook the likes of Archie White and Dino Lamb Korma before that? Don't forget the rich vein of half back talent at your end too - perhaps it's time England adopt the Care-Lewis double whammy

Now that's a low blow

Exactly, and this is Dave Lewis with a proper rest and pre season - imagine him after playing three seasons non stop with a Lions tour chucked in between

It might just be time to start looking at other clubs for players, I think

I got as far as imagining Dave Lewis playing for the Lions

brero wrote:time for the end of the ford / faz partnership?

Can't drop Farrell, realistically, and Farrell at 10 has only looked good with all the straight line runners on the pitch winning contact - watch against Scotland and the first part of his stint today and you'll see how he ends up distributing too far in front of the defence (and surprisingly slowly).

Once there was more momentum from the big guys he was much better at threatening the line and putting people into gaps, though.

JM2K6 wrote:

brero wrote:time for the end of the ford / faz partnership?

Can't drop Farrell, realistically, and Farrell at 10 has only looked good with all the straight line runners on the pitch winning contact - watch against Scotland and the first part of his stint today and you'll see how he ends up distributing too far in front of the defence (and surprisingly slowly).

Once there was more momentum from the big guys he was much better at threatening the line and putting people into gaps, though.

Faz, Teo, Slade would work well.

mr flaps wrote:

JM2K6 wrote:

brero wrote:time for the end of the ford / faz partnership?

Can't drop Farrell, realistically, and Farrell at 10 has only looked good with all the straight line runners on the pitch winning contact - watch against Scotland and the first part of his stint today and you'll see how he ends up distributing too far in front of the defence (and surprisingly slowly).

Once there was more momentum from the big guys he was much better at threatening the line and putting people into gaps, though.

Faz, Teo, Slade would work well.

It might. But I've yet to be convinced that Te'o is a starting international centre, and Slade is, well, not the most consistent.

It's also a massive, massive change.

JM2K6 wrote:

brero wrote:time for the end of the ford / faz partnership?

Can't drop Farrell, realistically, and Farrell at 10 has only looked good with all the straight line runners on the pitch winning contact - watch against Scotland and the first part of his stint today and you'll see how he ends up distributing too far in front of the defence (and surprisingly slowly).

Once there was more momentum from the big guys he was much better at threatening the line and putting people into gaps, though.

Farrell gets the luxury of a 12 outside him with the game broken up. I dare say ford would prefer teo and Joseph outside him.

DragsterDriver wrote:

JM2K6 wrote:

brero wrote:time for the end of the ford / faz partnership?

Can't drop Farrell, realistically, and Farrell at 10 has only looked good with all the straight line runners on the pitch winning contact - watch against Scotland and the first part of his stint today and you'll see how he ends up distributing too far in front of the defence (and surprisingly slowly).

Once there was more momentum from the big guys he was much better at threatening the line and putting people into gaps, though.

Farrell gets the luxury of a 12 outside him with the game broken up. I dare say ford would prefer teo and Joseph outside him.

Ford would prefer Manu Tuilagi and JJ realistically.

Jones should have moved faz to 10 taken ford off given the way the game was going.

nardol wrote:Jones should have moved faz to 10 taken ford off given the way the game was going.

He did.

Faz has never really convinced as a test 10

The centres he has are irrelevant - he just stands too deep and kicks the ball too much. Really not good at unlocking a de Feb with the limited time and space he has at 10

Besides, the problem in the last two tests have been well away from 10 and 12

JM2K6 wrote:

mr flaps wrote:

JM2K6 wrote:

brero wrote:time for the end of the ford / faz partnership?

Can't drop Farrell, realistically, and Farrell at 10 has only looked good with all the straight line runners on the pitch winning contact - watch against Scotland and the first part of his stint today and you'll see how he ends up distributing too far in front of the defence (and surprisingly slowly).

Once there was more momentum from the big guys he was much better at threatening the line and putting people into gaps, though.

Faz, Teo, Slade would work well.

It might. But I've yet to be convinced that Te'o is a starting international centre, and Slade is, well, not the most consistent.

It's also a massive, massive change.

Slade is very consistent at 13, looked gash at 12 though.

Hmm, seen too many matches of Slade at 13 where he's had a bit of a shocker to really trust the guy, talented and likeable as he is

So where do we go from here JM?

He can't surely stick with this same setup?

Slightly controversial opinion here but Henry Slade might not be the answer to our problems at the breakdown

openclashXX wrote:Slightly controversial opinion here but Henry Slade might not be the answer to our problems at the breakdown

You never know... half the backs were in there today more than the forwards were.

JM2K6 wrote:Somehow I think the f**king penalty try and yellow card from Watson was more telling than back rows giving away penalties trying to do their job

As highlighted when LCD went solo for the last carry we had a 5 on 2. That to me is tells you f**king everything. Our players see the ref is blowing for 80 minutes on any isolated carry and they are still picking up the ball and going solo. I'm starting to think our our players the stupidest around?

Wendigo7 wrote:So where do we go from here JM?

He can't surely stick with this same setup?

Short term:

Stop picking a lock at 6. Pick the form locks to start. Give Mako a rest, start Marler. Possibly start Harry Williams. Robshaw to 6, Haskell to 7, Simmonds to 8 if Hughes is broken, pick a useful sub like Armand or Wilson who can cover several positions. Pick either Wigglesworth or Care, and get some impact on the bench.

Leave Sincker & LCD on the bench and put Te'o there too. Trust in the impact game.

Tactically, stop being so sodding passive, recognise we don't currently have the team to just allow big forwards to carry on their own and allow them a bit more support, stop trying to go wide so often regardless of the situation.

Stop flogging knackered players during the week.

Longer term: Recognise quicker when things aren't working and stop being stubborn because of the media. Maybe recognise the attacking game hasn't kicked on at all regardless of personnel.



I think he's looking in mostly the right places for solutions but there's very few players who stand out as being unfairly overlooked, it's a question of managing weaknesses.

Care should never start for England. He stifles the attack when he dithers, then picks up the ball, takes a step, before passing slowly to a man who is either stationary or has to check his run to collect the pass. Pass in front of the man FFS!

ThePretender wrote:

openclashXX wrote:Slightly controversial opinion here but Henry Slade might not be the answer to our problems at the breakdown

You never know... half the backs were in there today more than the forwards were.

I hope somebody makes a gif of Ford trying to clear Bastareaud, it'd fit right alongside that Attwood-Kruis clear out gif from a few 6Ns back

Keith wrote:Care should never start for England. He stifles the attack when he dithers, then picks up the ball, takes a step, before passing slowly to a man who is either stationary or has to check his run to collect the pass. Pass in front of the man FFS!

It's Wiggles as the alternative ffs

How many more games does he need to play before we accept this is not some tactical Eddie Jones career rehabilitation masterstroke but a massive selection cock up

openclashXX wrote:

Keith wrote:Care should never start for England. He stifles the attack when he dithers, then picks up the ball, takes a step, before passing slowly to a man who is either stationary or has to check his run to collect the pass. Pass in front of the man FFS!

It's Wiggles as the alternative ffs

How many more games does he need to play before we accept this is not some tactical Eddie Jones career rehabilitation masterstroke but a massive selection cock up

I'd start Wiggles next week. Care is approaching Bergamasco levels of shitness

Wendigo7 wrote:What pissed me off was the backs doing a shit load of rucking. Where the fudge were the forwards?

They rucked better then the forwards half the time.

Keith wrote:

openclashXX wrote:

Keith wrote:Care should never start for England. He stifles the attack when he dithers, then picks up the ball, takes a step, before passing slowly to a man who is either stationary or has to check his run to collect the pass. Pass in front of the man FFS!

It's Wiggles as the alternative ffs

How many more games does he need to play before we accept this is not some tactical Eddie Jones career rehabilitation masterstroke but a massive selection cock up

I'd start Wiggles next week. Care is approaching Bergamasco levels of shitness

“The game is changing at the moment which will enforce some selection changes,” Jones told the BBC.

“If you don’t have power, it’s very hard to get momentum.”

More power = Haskell back and...?

openclashXX wrote:

ThePretender wrote:

openclashXX wrote:Slightly controversial opinion here but Henry Slade might not be the answer to our problems at the breakdown

You never know... half the backs were in there today more than the forwards were.

I hope somebody makes a gif of Ford trying to clear Bastareaud, it'd fit right alongside that Attwood-Kruis clear out gif from a few 6Ns back

Joseph had a beauty, pawing away at somebody.

openclashXX wrote:

Keith wrote:Care should never start for England. He stifles the attack when he dithers, then picks up the ball, takes a step, before passing slowly to a man who is either stationary or has to check his run to collect the pass. Pass in front of the man FFS!

It's Wiggles as the alternative ffs

How many more games does he need to play before we accept this is not some tactical Eddie Jones career rehabilitation masterstroke but a massive selection cock up

Wiggles certainly isn’t a finisher- marler also is a starter... having said that mako looks heavy at the moment.

Has anyone offered Haskell a domestic contract for next season?

Gospel wrote:Has anyone offered Haskell a domestic contract for next season?

Worcs, I thought

DragsterDriver wrote:

openclashXX wrote:

Keith wrote:Care should never start for England. He stifles the attack when he dithers, then picks up the ball, takes a step, before passing slowly to a man who is either stationary or has to check his run to collect the pass. Pass in front of the man FFS!

It's Wiggles as the alternative ffs

How many more games does he need to play before we accept this is not some tactical Eddie Jones career rehabilitation masterstroke but a massive selection cock up

Wiggles certainly isn’t a finisher- marler also is a starter... having said that mako looks heavy at the moment.

This is true, so do we bite the bullet and start him? seems to be a few people calling for ford to be dropped with farrell to 10. Right now I cant work out what we can do to improve, short of another foot and mouth disease outbreak giving us a few months to rest a few players.

As shit as France have become, the record now stands that we've lost to them in two of the last five 6N encounters

Wigglesworth would suit the way Eddie seems to want England to play. We either kick a lot of ball or just try and get it to the wings and 9/10/12 are there just to pass or kick it the vast majority of the time. We made 6m between them today - you have two pretty instinctive runners in Care and Ford almost never opting to run it

Wigglesworth's a nightmare in defence though.

What is the point in picking Wiggles to play a South African style kick and chase game if you haven't got the other 14 players to fit that same mould?

Because let's be clear, that's basically the only style of game Wiggles can do effectively - other than that he's useless at this level

You know how much I hate Care and think he's useless but even I'm struggling to want him canned for Wiggles

Oh, I don't want to see Wigglesworth playing either. Just pointing out that we're asking our halfbacks to play a specific way and it's a way that suits very few of the available halfbacks.

JM2K6 wrote:

Gospel wrote:Has anyone offered Haskell a domestic contract for next season?

Worcs, I thought

He isn't exactly the future of English Rugby though, is he ?

Given that the Championship is gone, is it permissible for EJ to take a punt on a few players ?

He could even, justifiably, say he's doing it to give a few players a rest, Itoje, Mako, etc especially.

fishfoodie wrote:

JM2K6 wrote:

Gospel wrote:Has anyone offered Haskell a domestic contract for next season?

Worcs, I thought

He isn't exactly the future of English Rugby though, is he ?

Given that the Championship is gone, is it permissible to EJ to take a punt on a few players ?

He could even, justifiably, say he's doing it to give a few players a rest, Itoje, Mako, etc especially.

There's a ton of players who he might want to have a look at on tour, but there's nothing to be learned from throwing people in next week who haven't been in camp, IMO. It could be damaging to some very promising players.

Spoiling Ireland's party should not be discounted.

Brad Shields at 7

JM2K6 wrote:

fishfoodie wrote:

JM2K6 wrote:

Gospel wrote:Has anyone offered Haskell a domestic contract for next season?

Worcs, I thought

He isn't exactly the future of English Rugby though, is he ?

Given that the Championship is gone, is it permissible to EJ to take a punt on a few players ?

He could even, justifiably, say he's doing it to give a few players a rest, Itoje, Mako, etc especially.

There's a ton of players who he might want to have a look at on tour, but there's nothing to be learned from throwing people in next week who haven't been in camp, IMO. It could be damaging to some very promising players.

Spoiling Ireland's party should not be discounted.

Another defeat is also a problem.

Look at the schedule for him now. Whoever he picks now is potentially a lamb to the slaughter. 3 away to SA, 1 at home to SA, then NZ, Aus and Japan.

Nice learning curve.

Sonny Blount wrote:Brad Shields at 7

He'll have to earn it first. Too many hyped players have come over from Soup and failed to make the grade.

JM2K6 wrote:

fishfoodie wrote:

JM2K6 wrote:

Gospel wrote:Has anyone offered Haskell a domestic contract for next season?

Worcs, I thought

He isn't exactly the future of English Rugby though, is he ?

Given that the Championship is gone, is it permissible to EJ to take a punt on a few players ?

He could even, justifiably, say he's doing it to give a few players a rest, Itoje, Mako, etc especially.

There's a ton of players who he might want to have a look at on tour, but there's nothing to be learned from throwing people in next week who haven't been in camp, IMO. It could be damaging to some very promising players.

Spoiling Ireland's party should not be discounted.

Understood; & Ireland will have a game of it, whomever England puts out, but if England put out a team with, say 12-13/15 of the players that started today, I'd expect us to win by more than a score.

Now EJ knows he's building a team for the next World Cup; so what does he have to gain, by picking players he's already seen in 20+of the games he's been in charge for; or players who won't even see the next WC ?

I know it'd be painful to get beat at home; but if, say, you as a fan got sight of a new possible SH, or backrow player(s), wouldn't it be worth it for a 6N's you can't win anyway ?

There's a big, big, big problem.