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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:24 pm 
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JM2K6 wrote:
I just don't understand why doing it now, in the aftermath of a Lions tour, in the 6N, will have any positive benefit in the World Cup 18 months away.


It’s lost on me.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:25 pm 
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Ask this guy: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/bentondean


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:25 pm 
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JM2K6 wrote:
Have had it confirmed by people who'd know that we were getting beasted in training during the week - full contact stuff on Tuesday etc. Not really news but no-one thinks it's sane.

If I was a tinfoil-hat kind of a chap I might think that Eddie-twelve-subs was deliberately trying to put England on the back foot for every game to see what they're made of.

Surely no professional coach would do this for the 6N though? I appreciate the RWC is the holy-grail but do you consciously undermine your chances of winning Europe's showcase event as part of the process?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:26 pm 
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Yep, as I said last night I cannot believe they are deliberately beasting players for a RWC benefit that would likely have a negative impact on the current competition.

I can believe they were being beasted, but if if was for the RWC, then Eddie needs sacking.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:28 pm 
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Gospel wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
Have had it confirmed by people who'd know that we were getting beasted in training during the week - full contact stuff on Tuesday etc. Not really news but no-one thinks it's sane.

If I was a tinfoil-hat kind of a chap I might think that Eddie-twelve-subs was deliberately trying to put England on the back foot for every game to see what they're made of.

Surely no professional coach would do this for the 6N though? I appreciate the RWC is the holy-grail but do you consciously undermine your chances of winning Europe's showcase event as part of the process?


Eddie has already won a slam, he's won the tri-nations, he's whitewashed the aussies, he's arguably got the most impressive surprise win at a world cup. He got the cup as an assistant coach, but I guess he wants the real thing. I doubt he cares that much about the 6n.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:31 pm 
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But how will it help? Fitness doesn't work like that


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:31 pm 
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Raggs wrote:
Eddie has already won a slam, he's won the tri-nations, he's whitewashed the aussies, he's arguably got the most impressive surprise win at a world cup. He got the cup as an assistant coach, but I guess he wants the real thing. I doubt he cares that much about the 6n.

I don't believe you get there by losing though. But I do think there's something in here about trying to replicate the physical stress of playing competition level intensity for ensuing weeks. Might the simple solution be that we just weren't very good?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:33 pm 
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JM2K6 wrote:
But how will it help? Fitness doesn't work like that

No you don't get to bottle it for use 18 months later.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:36 pm 
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Would just be madness. The RWC is a crap shoot. Obviously important to manage workloads/have good camps before. But you can lose in the knock out stages or before on the bounce of a ball.

You should never jeopardise a 6n performance for it. And I still can't believe we will have here.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:38 pm 
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Margin_Walker wrote:
Would just be madness. The RWC is a crap shoot. Obviously important to manage workloads/have good camps before. But you can lose in the knock out stages or before on the bounce of a ball.

You should never jeopardise a 6n performance for it. And I still can't believe we will have here.


You've got a few choices. 1. Eddie's doing it on the advice of a top sports scientist, who knows what he's doing, and it'll pay off. 2. Eddies doing it on the advice of a top sports scientist who managed to get this far without know what he's doing, and it won't pay off. 3. Eddies a dinosaur and we're f**ked. 4. English players are just really shit, shitter for England than they are for their clubs, and we're f**ked.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:41 pm 
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Raggs wrote:
Margin_Walker wrote:
Would just be madness. The RWC is a crap shoot. Obviously important to manage workloads/have good camps before. But you can lose in the knock out stages or before on the bounce of a ball.

You should never jeopardise a 6n performance for it. And I still can't believe we will have here.


You've got a few choices. 1. Eddie's doing it on the advice of a top sports scientist, who knows what he's doing, and it'll pay off. 2. Eddies doing it on the advice of a top sports scientist who managed to get this far without know what he's doing, and it won't pay off. 3. Eddies a dinosaur and we're f**ked. 4. English players are just really shit, shitter for England than they are for their clubs, and we're f**ked.



S&C is loaded with people that sound extremely impressive but are actually full of shit.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:41 pm 
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For a side that's being beasted all week why is it that we have finished so strongly in all the matches we lost? Surely we'd start fresh only to die off rather quickly.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:42 pm 
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Gospel wrote:
For a side that's being beasted all week why is it that we have finished so strongly in all the matches we lost? Surely we'd start fresh only to die off rather quickly.



Finishers 😆


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:42 pm 
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JM2K6 wrote:
I just don't understand why doing it now, in the aftermath of a Lions tour, in the 6N, will have any positive benefit in the World Cup 18 months away.


It mystifies me.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:44 pm 
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Gospel wrote:
For a side that's being beasted all week why is it that we have finished so strongly in all the matches we lost? Surely we'd start fresh only to die off rather quickly.


The subs. Their contributions have been huge. Especially the likes of Sinkler/Williams as they replace Cole.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:45 pm 
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One thing's for sure, Hask's eventual tell-all book will have some interesting tales to tell having experienced Johnno's, Bomber's and Eddie's coaching reigns (Ashton as well?).


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:48 pm 
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Gospel wrote:
For a side that's being beasted all week why is it that we have finished so strongly in all the matches we lost? Surely we'd start fresh only to die off rather quickly.


Different forms of fitness. You can create fitness that keeps you going, but doesn't support peak performance. Hence running forever but never reacting or thinking fats enough.

As for the "why 18 months away" thing, it could be Eddie is creating a base to build upon. The higher your prior fitness the further you can take it next season. However I'm not sure Eddie is getting that right. Let us remember Martin Johnson had to tell Clive Woodward to stop at some point in 2003 when the players felt he had gone to far. Eddie Jones is a work obsessive. He might not get "less = more" if done the right way.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 2:51 pm 
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mr flaps wrote:
Raggs wrote:
Margin_Walker wrote:
Would just be madness. The RWC is a crap shoot. Obviously important to manage workloads/have good camps before. But you can lose in the knock out stages or before on the bounce of a ball.

You should never jeopardise a 6n performance for it. And I still can't believe we will have here.


You've got a few choices. 1. Eddie's doing it on the advice of a top sports scientist, who knows what he's doing, and it'll pay off. 2. Eddies doing it on the advice of a top sports scientist who managed to get this far without know what he's doing, and it won't pay off. 3. Eddies a dinosaur and we're f**ked. 4. English players are just really shit, shitter for England than they are for their clubs, and we're f**ked.



S&C is loaded with people that sound extremely impressive but are actually full of shit.


As is this thread...


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 2:52 pm 
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We're not getting paid for it.


I hope.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 2:53 pm 
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It's possible Eddie's trying to build some backbone under pressure. Winning while fatigued and not at our best when a WC is a number of tough games in a row and he's mentioned a few times we lack leaders.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:10 pm 
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pandion wrote:
It's possible Eddie's trying to build some backbone under pressure. Winning while fatigued and not at our best when a WC is a number of tough games in a row and he's mentioned a few times we lack leaders.


Well it did the trick- we sure showed them :smug:


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:12 pm 
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pandion wrote:
It's possible Eddie's trying to build some backbone under pressure. Winning while fatigued and not at our best when a WC is a number of tough games in a row and he's mentioned a few times we lack leaders.


Mental. Insanely arrogant if true (which I don't believe it is).


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:18 pm 
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Thing that worries me most is that our players don’t look like they are enjoying it any more. They are going through the motions. I think they must actually hate the game and the physical punishment they take, week in, week out.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:01 pm 
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Josh Charnley has gone back to League. Only really saw him when Sale played Saints, so can't comment on whether his stay in Union can be considered a success.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:08 pm 
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Watson out for 6 months :( snapped achilles

Bath's injury list this whole season is just ridiculous


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:28 pm 
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$hit news for Watson ...

In other news, Dom Barrow has apparently left Tigers with immediate effect.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:30 pm 
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matta25 wrote:
Watson out for 6 months :( snapped achilles

Bath's injury list this whole season is just ridiculous


Am I dreaming or has he done Achilles before?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:57 pm 
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JM2K6 wrote:
I just don't understand why doing it now, in the aftermath of a Lions tour, in the 6N, will have any positive benefit in the World Cup 18 months away.


Agreed. Get the feeling he was beasting them as a method of discipline, as he’s done before.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:00 pm 
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I fell into this trap once already, the whole "beasting them in endless fitness sessions is definitely going to pay off, a sports scientist for GB cycling says so"

Making sure Dan Cole reaches the World Cup with a defined six pack shouldn't be the aim of a Six Nations training camp 18 months before


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:21 pm 
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openclashXX wrote:
I fell into this trap once already, the whole "beasting them in endless fitness sessions is definitely going to pay off, a sports scientist for GB cycling says so"

Making sure Dan Cole reaches the World Cup with a defined six pack shouldn't be the aim of a Six Nations training camp 18 months before



I reckon some of these people are being different for being different's sake, trying to justify their with novel approaches to fitness (even if it's an old fashioned beasting, which wouldn't be unlike the Paleo Diet). At the very least, imagine most haven't played rugby since school and think you can apply another sport's ideal training regimen (or a theory) to rugby.


Reminds me of this:

Spoiler: show
Image


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:31 pm 
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Nieghorn wrote:


Reminds me of this:

Spoiler: show
Image



I actually believe for a lot of people pre-match warm-ups are a f**king waste of time. Not the principle the fact it has ballooned into an extra hour of exercise at clubs.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:31 pm 
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Oxbow wrote:
Josh Charnley has gone back to League. Only really saw him when Sale played Saints, so can't comment on whether his stay in Union can be considered a success.



Probably wasn't gonna work out when they signed Solomona and he was successful from the get go.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:34 pm 
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eldanielfire wrote:
Nieghorn wrote:


Reminds me of this:

Spoiler: show
Image



I actually believe for a lot of people pre-match warm-ups are a f**king waste of time. Not the principle the fact it has ballooned into an extra hour of exercise at clubs.


Doing a few stretching exercises seems sensible - but save the rest of the energy for the game.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:44 pm 
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eldanielfire wrote:
Nieghorn wrote:


Reminds me of this:

Spoiler: show
Image



I actually believe for a lot of people pre-match warm-ups are a f**king waste of time. Not the principle the fact it has ballooned into an extra hour of exercise at clubs.


When I last coached at the Prem level here, I asked the ladies if they minded ditching the standard warm-up. They wanted the standard routine for match day (fair enough, as routine helps settle and focus), but for every training session we'd do about 1o-15 mins of some sort of game - from rugby-like to something that kids would do on the playground. Multi-directional, high tempo, everyone involved (we'd do specific upper-body tasks pre-contact however). Can't recall anyone every pulling a muscle or even asking to do do their own 'dynamic' routine just to be sure.

Most did their own gym and fitness work on their own time, but many thought our 'fun fitness' and me keeping sessions short and sharp were factors that helped us outlast our opponents in the final 1/3 of the match.

Was it the42.ie where the panel (which included BOD) was aghast hearing the AP clubs did regular full contact sessions? I don't know what everyone does, nor am I an expert in that area, but it would seem the Irish approach makes the most sense. I've also seen video from the ABs where some players were on individual plans to keep them lean and not add too much bulk. I don't know if it's just that they're older, but looking at some Lancaster era footage recently it seemed that Robshaw, Launchbury, and even Hask are bulkier now.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:10 am 
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[INFIDEL NON-ANGLO POSTER ALERT]

There seems to be a lot more "English" posters on the bored all of a sudden

[NORMAL ANGLO-ONLY TRANSMISSION RESUMES...]


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:18 am 
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Henry must have his multis out?

Seriously though, what makes you say that? Haven't noticed it. There's been a few foreign trolls re-emerge, a la el flash, but haven't noticed an increase in our lot on the whole.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:18 am 
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eldanielfire wrote:
Nieghorn wrote:


Reminds me of this:

Spoiler: show
Image



I actually believe for a lot of people pre-match warm-ups are a f**king waste of time. Not the principle the fact it has ballooned into an extra hour of exercise at clubs.

I fully agree. England should do what we do in the 3s. The 7 who get changed quickest should stand in a circle chucking a ball around, one of the tight five should be out by the gate smoking, and every so often somebody should yell towards the touchline 'Eddie, have we got 15 today?'


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:36 am 
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happyhooker wrote:
Henry must have his multis out?

Seriously though, what makes you say that? Haven't noticed it. There's been a few foreign trolls re-emerge, a la el flash, but haven't noticed an increase in our lot on the whole.


At the risk of imposing myself twice; just talking about this thread specifically.

Supposed to be a safe space for Anglos, I thought


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:23 am 
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croyals wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
Nieghorn wrote:


Reminds me of this:

Spoiler: show
Image



I actually believe for a lot of people pre-match warm-ups are a f**king waste of time. Not the principle the fact it has ballooned into an extra hour of exercise at clubs.

I fully agree. England should do what we do in the 3s. The 7 who get changed quickest should stand in a circle chucking a ball around, one of the tight five should be out by the gate smoking, and every so often somebody should yell towards the touchline 'Eddie, have we got 15 today?'


:lol:

May would get a bunch more chances to flank! One of them bigger backs might even have to stand in as hooker. Even worse, prop, as I can just see Dylan and Nathan declaring "Nah, bro. I just play hooker / 8" like the hooker and fat flanker in my 4s team in Bristol who flat out refused to prop when it was just me, forcing the 40 year old wiry lock to have a go. During that argument the dullard at openside will say that he's happy to stand in at 12, prompting the only intelligent lad in the squad to scream: "We're.not.short.a.back,James!!! We need a bloody prop!"


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:56 am 
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Nieghorn wrote:
openclashXX wrote:
I fell into this trap once already, the whole "beasting them in endless fitness sessions is definitely going to pay off, a sports scientist for GB cycling says so"

Making sure Dan Cole reaches the World Cup with a defined six pack shouldn't be the aim of a Six Nations training camp 18 months before



I reckon some of these people are being different for being different's sake, trying to justify their with novel approaches to fitness (even if it's an old fashioned beasting, which wouldn't be unlike the Paleo Diet). At the very least, imagine most haven't played rugby since school and think you can apply another sport's ideal training regimen (or a theory) to rugby.


Reminds me of this:

Spoiler: show
Image


Well they don't seem to be getting players to lose weight and the guy has a long history with rugby, so he's probably aware of the requirements. Might still be getting it wrong of course.


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