Planet Rugby Forum

Balls Out! wrote:

SamShark wrote:Hmmmm, disappointing.

Any speculation who England might recruit?

Stuart Barnes in the Times has suggested Ronan O'Gara. With knowledge of both Ireland and NZ, it seems like a good idea to me

I'd have thought it unlikely.

1) He's only a wet week in NZ
2) O'Gara strikes me as a man with a plan; & the SH is only phase two; so he won't jump the gun.

With the NH season done; I'd strongly assume candidates will be from there. At least given that England was already shopping for an attack coach, at least they've already been running the rule over a lot of coaches.

I wonder is there anyone in England succession planning that fits the bill ?

Hughes will replace Willis, Brad Davies will replace Gustard.

I’m 100% on the first, 80% on second

Gospel wrote:

matta25 wrote:Really disappointing from an England POV, can't blame him obv but it's a pretty big blow just over a year from the world cup

Yeah this. It's got to be deeply concerning for everyone in the England camp to lose such an important coach this close to the RWC.

Eddie says he’s delighted that Gustard has developed into a head coach. He’s upbeat.

Jake wrote:Hughes will replace Willis, Brad Davies will replace Gustard.

I’m 100% on the first, 80% on second

Is there a diagnosis on what's broken with Willis? So upset for the guy, really thought he'd be able to take the 7 shirt for himself.

Raggs wrote:

Jake wrote:Hughes will replace Willis, Brad Davies will replace Gustard.

I’m 100% on the first, 80% on second

Is there a diagnosis on what's broken with Willis? So upset for the guy, really thought he'd be able to take the 7 shirt for himself.

ACL I believe.

Hughes is deffo his replacement

Raggs wrote:

Jake wrote:Hughes will replace Willis, Brad Davies will replace Gustard.

I’m 100% on the first, 80% on second

Is there a diagnosis on what's broken with Willis? So upset for the guy, really thought he'd be able to take the 7 shirt for himself.

100% agree. I genuinely thought he could be the answer we’ve been looking for at 7.

Also, if it is an ACL, it’s unlikely he’ll be playing again until 2019 so the World Cup is pretty much out of the question.

I’m also frustrated that Hughes is the replacement. Curry might get a chance at 7 but I can’t see Earl getting a game which probably means more of Robshaw at 7 with Shields or Wilson at 6. I would have much rather given Graham a go.

Scrumhead wrote:

Raggs wrote:

Jake wrote:Hughes will replace Willis, Brad Davies will replace Gustard.

I’m 100% on the first, 80% on second

Is there a diagnosis on what's broken with Willis? So upset for the guy, really thought he'd be able to take the 7 shirt for himself.

100% agree. I genuinely thought he could be the answer we’ve been looking for at 7.

Also, if it is an ACL, it’s unlikely he’ll be playing again until 2019 so the World Cup is pretty much out of the question.

I’m also frustrated that Hughes is the replacement. Curry might get a chance at 7 but I can’t see Earl getting a game which probably means more of Robshaw at 7 with Shields or Wilson at 6. I would have much rather given Graham a go.

Not a fan of Graham. Big fan of Armand.

‘Filthy poaching quins’

Players on twitter are bigging up brad davis anyway.

Jake wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:

Raggs wrote:

Jake wrote:Hughes will replace Willis, Brad Davies will replace Gustard.

I’m 100% on the first, 80% on second

Is there a diagnosis on what's broken with Willis? So upset for the guy, really thought he'd be able to take the 7 shirt for himself.

100% agree. I genuinely thought he could be the answer we’ve been looking for at 7.

Also, if it is an ACL, it’s unlikely he’ll be playing again until 2019 so the World Cup is pretty much out of the question.

I’m also frustrated that Hughes is the replacement. Curry might get a chance at 7 but I can’t see Earl getting a game which probably means more of Robshaw at 7 with Shields or Wilson at 6. I would have much rather given Graham a go.

Not a fan of Graham. Big fan of Armband.

How about Simmonds to 7?

Hughes is a good replacement, gives us a bit more cover at 8 which is sensible given Billy's injury record. It also means Curry inches closer to a start which would be a huge test for him.

Pretty poor form by Gustard.

Let's hope his team talks don't involve preaching the virtues of loyalty.

MrDominator wrote:Pretty poor form by Gustard.

Let's hope his team talks don't involve preaching the virtues of loyalty.

How is it poor form? It’s a step up, it’s precisely his development pathway and he leaVes with EJ’s blessing.

45jumper wrote:Hughes is a good replacement, gives us a bit more cover at 8 which is sensible given Billy's injury record. It also means Curry inches closer to a start which would be a huge test for him.

Given Billy was pulled off ( ) at half time with a sore hammy again, I'm genuinely questioning the wisdom of taking him to South Africa. Give him the summer off, let him have a proper preseason.

MrDominator wrote:Pretty poor form by Gustard.

Let's hope his team talks don't involve preaching the virtues of loyalty.

How is it poor form? It’s a step up, it’s precisely his development pathway and he leaVes with EJ’s blessing.

Jake wrote:

MrDominator wrote:Pretty poor form by Gustard.

Let's hope his team talks don't involve preaching the virtues of loyalty.

How is it poor form? It’s a step up, it’s precisely his development pathway and he leaVes with EJ’s blessing.

Absolutely
Should imagine all the existing coaches at Quins will be looking over their shoulders as there is likely to be a clear out as he appoints his own team
Should imagine her want to sign a few new forwards as well
Wonder what the Quins England players make of it
Backers must have very deep pockets

SaintK wrote:

Jake wrote:

MrDominator wrote:Pretty poor form by Gustard.

Let's hope his team talks don't involve preaching the virtues of loyalty.

How is it poor form? It’s a step up, it’s precisely his development pathway and he leaVes with EJ’s blessing.

Absolutely
Should imagine all the existing coaches at Quins will be looking over their shoulders as there is likely to be a clear out as he appoints his own team
Should imagine her want to sign a few new forwards as well
Wonder what the Quins England players make of it
Backers must have very deep pockets

I hope he wields the axe with wild abandon.

That's a decent catch for Quins. Can see why he took the job too, even close to the WC. Don't get many opportunities as a young coach and need to take the plunge when they come along.

eldanielfire wrote:

Raggs wrote: They were suggesting on the rugby pod that Edwards is the perfect international coach. Someone who can drive passion and emotion, whilst being a very good coach, however, they wondered if that passion and emotion wouldn't wear a bit thin with a week in, week out grind of the season.

This is made as if he never had a career at Wasps. And his methods worked at Wasps. Besides the reputation, Edwards is a coach who does more than shout all of the time. He's a big personality who has proven at club level to at Wasps he can bring lots of success tot he weekly format. Heck he has was drafted in at Cardiff Blues to work with them once a week and their season got better and better and has been regarded a success now after winning a European cup.

I'd like to see Edwards running a club. He's an interesting option, and I'd like to know if his spiel/intensity would work over multiple seasons as a head coach. It might depend on him having time/resources to establish a culture suitable for how he wants a squad to operate, then again he's an intelligent lad and maybe he would show more ability to work with what he had than we're expecting. It does rather feel like he's been an assistant too long now, a change isn't only due it's overdue

Seems to me a great opportunity - a big, successful club that's at a bit of a low ebb, so he'll probably have carte blanche to put his imprint on it and try and take it places.

piquant wrote:

eldanielfire wrote:

Raggs wrote: They were suggesting on the rugby pod that Edwards is the perfect international coach. Someone who can drive passion and emotion, whilst being a very good coach, however, they wondered if that passion and emotion wouldn't wear a bit thin with a week in, week out grind of the season.

This is made as if he never had a career at Wasps. And his methods worked at Wasps. Besides the reputation, Edwards is a coach who does more than shout all of the time. He's a big personality who has proven at club level to at Wasps he can bring lots of success tot he weekly format. Heck he has was drafted in at Cardiff Blues to work with them once a week and their season got better and better and has been regarded a success now after winning a European cup.

I'd like to see Edwards running a club. He's an interesting option, and I'd like to know if his spiel/intensity would work over multiple seasons as a head coach. It might depend on him having time/resources to establish a culture suitable for how he wants a squad to operate, then again he's an intelligent lad and maybe he would show more ability to work with what he had than we're expecting. It does rather feel like he's been an assistant too long now, a change isn't only due it's overdue

He was head coach at Wasps for some time.

JM2K6 wrote:

piquant wrote:

eldanielfire wrote:

Raggs wrote: They were suggesting on the rugby pod that Edwards is the perfect international coach. Someone who can drive passion and emotion, whilst being a very good coach, however, they wondered if that passion and emotion wouldn't wear a bit thin with a week in, week out grind of the season.

This is made as if he never had a career at Wasps. And his methods worked at Wasps. Besides the reputation, Edwards is a coach who does more than shout all of the time. He's a big personality who has proven at club level to at Wasps he can bring lots of success tot he weekly format. Heck he has was drafted in at Cardiff Blues to work with them once a week and their season got better and better and has been regarded a success now after winning a European cup.

I'd like to see Edwards running a club. He's an interesting option, and I'd like to know if his spiel/intensity would work over multiple seasons as a head coach. It might depend on him having time/resources to establish a culture suitable for how he wants a squad to operate, then again he's an intelligent lad and maybe he would show more ability to work with what he had than we're expecting. It does rather feel like he's been an assistant too long now, a change isn't only due it's overdue

He was head coach at Wasps for some time.

Head coach under a DoR and he did have much more of a focus on defence than attack. I'd just like to see him putting the whole together than working under direction on the tactics front. And then there's how does he combine what he's good at alongside player contracts/recruitment, YA development... I realise I'm happy to see how he goes almost as an intellectual exercise, and fans of whatever club he fronts up might reasonably be more alarmed than I

piquant wrote:

JM2K6 wrote:

piquant wrote:

eldanielfire wrote:

Raggs wrote: They were suggesting on the rugby pod that Edwards is the perfect international coach. Someone who can drive passion and emotion, whilst being a very good coach, however, they wondered if that passion and emotion wouldn't wear a bit thin with a week in, week out grind of the season.

This is made as if he never had a career at Wasps. And his methods worked at Wasps. Besides the reputation, Edwards is a coach who does more than shout all of the time. He's a big personality who has proven at club level to at Wasps he can bring lots of success tot he weekly format. Heck he has was drafted in at Cardiff Blues to work with them once a week and their season got better and better and has been regarded a success now after winning a European cup.

I'd like to see Edwards running a club. He's an interesting option, and I'd like to know if his spiel/intensity would work over multiple seasons as a head coach. It might depend on him having time/resources to establish a culture suitable for how he wants a squad to operate, then again he's an intelligent lad and maybe he would show more ability to work with what he had than we're expecting. It does rather feel like he's been an assistant too long now, a change isn't only due it's overdue

He was head coach at Wasps for some time.

Head coach under a DoR and he did have much more of a focus on defence than attack. I'd just like to see him putting the whole together than working under direction on the tactics front. And then there's how does he combine what he's good at alongside player contracts/recruitment, YA development... I realise I'm happy to see how he goes almost as an intellectual exercise, and fans of whatever club he fronts up might reasonably be more alarmed than I

Head coach generally does work under a DoR, and that seems to be what's being offered for Gustard, too.

JM2K6 wrote: Head coach generally does work under a DoR, and that seems to be what's being offered for Gustard, too.

There are many different setups. I'd maybe understand keeping those with less experience away from contracts, but there is a question over who directs recruitment and the playing tactics, though both genuine team efforts and a sole person in charge can work as models. At the very least I'd like to see Edwards in charge of coaching, tactics, player development and recruitment

What's the word on what responsibilities Gustard will have, who will he report to, and even will he report to more than one person?

piquant wrote:

JM2K6 wrote: Head coach generally does work under a DoR, and that seems to be what's being offered for Gustard, too.

There are many different setups. I'd maybe understand keeping those with less experience away from contracts, but there is a question over who directs recruitment and the playing tactics, though both genuine team efforts and a sole person in charge can work as models. At the very least I'd like to see Edwards in charge of coaching, tactics, player development and recruitment

What's the word on what responsibilities Gustard will have, who will he report to, and even will he report to more than one person?

I get what you're saying. I don't know how much input Edwards had on development and recruitment when he was head coach.

As for the responsibilities, so far it's a "wait and see" until the GM/DoR role is a) defined, and b) filled. It does seem to be a common thread that Gustard's is a head coach role - currently held by Mapletoft - and someone will be coming in above him, but it's hazy on the details beyond that.

Jake wrote:

Gospel wrote:

matta25 wrote:Really disappointing from an England POV, can't blame him obv but it's a pretty big blow just over a year from the world cup

Yeah this. It's got to be deeply concerning for everyone in the England camp to lose such an important coach this close to the RWC.

Eddie says he’s delighted that Gustard has developed into a head coach. He’s upbeat.

Well that's very magnanimous of Eddie but if say Farrell walked out on Ireland at this point I doubt the Irish fans or commentators would see it as a win.

Gospel wrote:

Jake wrote:

Gospel wrote:

matta25 wrote:Really disappointing from an England POV, can't blame him obv but it's a pretty big blow just over a year from the world cup

Yeah this. It's got to be deeply concerning for everyone in the England camp to lose such an important coach this close to the RWC.

Eddie says he’s delighted that Gustard has developed into a head coach. He’s upbeat.

Well that's very magnanimous of Eddie but if say Farrell walked out on Ireland at this point I doubt the Irish fans or commentators would see it as a win.

Yeah, that's Eddie knowing how this should be handled. No point making it sound like a disaster, even if it is actually a big problem for him.

Thing is, I don't think Gustard would've been flying completely solo on this. I'd be hugely surprised if he hadn't informed Eddie of his plans to look elsewhere months ago.

It's professional of eddie to not be salty but I'm sure he'll be thinking he's a plum of the highest order- i wouldn't have thought he told him ages ago he's looking to jump ship or he'd have been replaced for the summer tour. No point wasting time building culture and handing out chocolate bars if the new guy could spend valuable time in camp.

On the flip side, there's a huge difference between "I'm quitting come what may" and "if the right role comes up I might apply"

Gospel wrote:Well that's very magnanimous of Eddie but if say Farrell walked out on Ireland at this point I doubt the Irish fans or commentators would see it as a win.

On a related note, if England had won the Grand Slam this year, would Gustard have walked away? I suspect he'd be looking forward to the World Cup instead. EJ supposedly works his coaches very hard and is a difficult boss to work for. The 6N wouldn't have been an easy tournament to endure (heck I'm still traumatised as a fan ).

Rugby2023 wrote:

Gospel wrote:Well that's very magnanimous of Eddie but if say Farrell walked out on Ireland at this point I doubt the Irish fans or commentators would see it as a win.

On a related note, if England had won the Grand Slam this year, would Gustard have walked away? I suspect he'd be looking forward to the World Cup instead. EJ supposedly works his coaches very hard and is a difficult boss to work for. The 6N wouldn't have been an easy tournament to endure (heck I'm still traumatised as a fan ).

Why? If they'd have grand slammed why wouldn't that have made it easier? Walk away with 2 grand slams in his pocket, international defence coaching credentials proven, and taking on the next challenge?

He's back in London permenantly, with a young family, with a promotion, in a job that will come with low expectations but strong backing.

Cynically speaking he's probably also wise to strike whilst his stock is pretty high. England World Cup campaigns are more likely to end in tears than be considered a success.

Margin_Walker wrote:Cynically speaking he's probably also wise to strike whilst his stock is pretty high. England World Cup campaigns are more likely to end in tears than be considered a success.

He's arguably made the right decision for himself but he has left the national team at a very crucial time which is not a good look.

It’s a standard question with all my direct reports on at least a 6 monthly basis - what do you want to do next? Develop people and avoid nasty surprises

England defence highlights for Gustard

2nd test v Australia 2016
England v Wales 2018

Jake wrote:

Gospel wrote:

matta25 wrote:Really disappointing from an England POV, can't blame him obv but it's a pretty big blow just over a year from the world cup

Yeah this. It's got to be deeply concerning for everyone in the England camp to lose such an important coach this close to the RWC.

Eddie says he’s delighted that Gustard has developed into a head coach. He’s upbeat.

And you fell for that?

I'm sure he's very delighted when speaking to a room full of press.

What's Dave Ellis up to these days? He was keen before...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugby ... gland.html

England squad for Baabaas game named - Cipriani listed as a fullback

That ought to get people frothing

openclashXX wrote:England squad for Baabaas game named - Cipriani listed as a fullback

That ought to get people frothing

Don't jump to conclusions. Eddie could be thinking of playing him on the wing.

Looking forward to the end of this 'fullbacks' and 'finishers' bollocks

Margin_Walker wrote:

openclashXX wrote:England squad for Baabaas game named - Cipriani listed as a fullback

That ought to get people frothing

Don't jump to conclusions. Eddie could be thinking of playing him on the wing.

Looking forward to the end of this 'fullbacks' and 'finishers' bollocks

If the tour goes poorly it might be "finishers" and "finished" for a heap of players.

Side note, finally watched the Sarries/Wasps game while being very unwell; Sarries were pretty awesome though the Yank does look ready to retire, and while Cips was a standout for Wasps, Launchbury had an awful game, Robson was anonymous, and Willis' injury is a massive, massive blow.

Yeah, Willis getting crocked was a real pisser

Pleased for Josh McNally being named for the Baa Baas game. Hell of a story and hope he makes the 23

Odd situation for Ollie Lawrence. Named here, but not for the U20s