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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:28 pm
by Spell
DragsterDriver wrote:Spell wrote:I hope Cole has a good rest this summer and a chance to put back on the weight that he stripped for the last world cup during pre season. I think we are missing some of his input around the set piece and breakdown. But his form dipped since he lost weight.
Like I said before, the U20 final showed the benefit of a big pack.
Yup Cole a stone heavier and dominate the scrum, the problem was he’d become shite in the loose and the tight. Worst of both worlds.
Maybe but a rest which could rejuvenate him. He looked to be the most flogged player for some time.
Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:02 pm
by 4071
Spell wrote:I hope Cole has a good rest this summer and a chance to put back on the weight that he stripped for the last world cup during pre season. I think we are missing some of his input around the set piece and breakdown. But his form dipped since he lost weight.
Like I said before, the U20 final showed the benefit of a big pack.
Worth mentioning that the English pack was bigger than the French pack in that final...?
Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:44 pm
by polyallstar
Raggs wrote:polyallstar wrote:Nieghorn wrote:Has anyone seen a clip of Owen Farrell screaming "It's wrong-g!" into the ref's mic (I think complaining about the French calling for cards / TMO checks)? If not, is the full game up on youtube at all?
In fairness the one I did see was Poite saying "open play, play on" OF then picked up the ball passed it on, for Poite to then give a pen for offside...
Nope. Farrell picked it up offside, Poite assumed he was OK and called play on after, then got called for offside I presume from AR.
regardless of the timing if the ref calls "play on open play", having observed the play from less than 1 yard away, he surely cant be changing his mind.
Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:46 pm
by Raggs
polyallstar wrote:Raggs wrote:polyallstar wrote:Nieghorn wrote:Has anyone seen a clip of Owen Farrell screaming "It's wrong-g!" into the ref's mic (I think complaining about the French calling for cards / TMO checks)? If not, is the full game up on youtube at all?
In fairness the one I did see was Poite saying "open play, play on" OF then picked up the ball passed it on, for Poite to then give a pen for offside...
Nope. Farrell picked it up offside, Poite assumed he was OK and called play on after, then got called for offside I presume from AR.
regardless of the timing if the ref calls "play on open play", having observed the play from less than 1 yard away, he surely cant be changing his mind.
He wasn't watching where Farrell came from, and assumed that the England captain wouldn't be so stupid as to think they can play the ball having never been onside, from a position several meters offside. I don't consider shouting play on to be legally binding, and if one of his ARs pointed out his error, then that's what he needs to do. I'd have been spitting feathers if that had been allowed to play on as a bok supporter.
Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:13 pm
by DragsterDriver
Rowntree to wasps?
Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:19 pm
by The Man Without Fear
DragsterDriver wrote:I mean I’m no oil painting but fark me- he looks like a beaten up pensioner
He's been playing like one of late, too.
Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:12 pm
by Raggs
DragsterDriver wrote:Rowntree to wasps?
Fissler says they're talking, some other journalist said they're definitely not.
When Brookes met with Dai they apparently had a one on one scrummaging session in Dai's kitchen!
Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:54 pm
by Gospel
Raggs wrote:
When Brookes met with Dai they apparently had a one on one scrummaging session in Dai's kitchen!
Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:56 pm
by Jake
Fiss will be right
Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:01 pm
by DragsterDriver
Gospel wrote:Raggs wrote:
When Brookes met with Dai they apparently had a one on one scrummaging session in Dai's kitchen!
Probably scrummaging over the last kit kat.
I still Think Brooke’s can come good, Saints with West was poisonous. Nice guy as well, proper bear of man, nearly killed me in a tackle
Just looked at the twitter, poor old fister has been sectioned? That’s not good.
Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:22 pm
by Margin_Walker
Mail reckon Cips in to start at 10. Marler and Hughes also starting
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyu ... start.html
Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:34 pm
by pandion
Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:37 pm
by pandion
geordie_6 wrote:Margin_Walker wrote:geordie_6 wrote:Margin_Walker wrote:Johnny Williams will do well at Newcastle if he stays injury free. Worth keeping an eye on
Really pleased with that signing, cracking player.
Sorry to pinch him from you MW, though I must admit it makes a nice change to not be on the receiving end of such a move for once.
Had to get your own back for Alex Gray eventually, I guess...
Though hopefully Williams will do better than Gray did...
Thought Gray might have had a future in the centre.
Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:46 pm
by openclashXX
The Mail's reporting
This is the moment he has been waiting and hoping for — and the moment the English rugby public have been waiting and hoping for too, such is the popular acclaim for Cipriani’s creative brilliance.
Doing enough to convince Jones that he even deserves to be considered for a starting place is a triumph in its own right.
At least this will shut them up now
Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:23 pm
by The Man Without Fear
Sports reporter Jack Rose (John C. McGinley) misspells two words while typing up his piece after quarterback Willie Beamen scores a rushing touchdown by flipping over two defenders. The Word document says "Beamen is a lethal combination of mobolity and escapablity. A decisive passer who can deliver from the pocket. And a young man with the arrogance to lead and the hipness to give a damn." As a parody of the real life Jim Rome reporter, who was known to be over the top, it is possible this character typing misspelling was intentional and meant to mock the know-it-all sports reporters.
Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:48 am
by booji boy
openclashXX wrote:The Mail's reporting
This is the moment he has been waiting and hoping for — and the moment the English rugby public have been waiting and hoping for too, such is the popular acclaim for Cipriani’s creative brilliance.
Doing enough to convince Jones that he even deserves to be considered for a starting place is a triumph in its own right.
At least this will shut them up now
You guys really think Cipriani is the answer? Geez I hope he's improved a lot from the player that came down to Australia and played for the Melbourne Rebels. He was absolute garbage. He made Quade Cooper look solid.
Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:53 am
by DragsterDriver
Yeah he’s much improved, but playing outside Young’s and with Farrell at 12 looking for a
Miracle.
Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:12 am
by Gospel
booji boy wrote:You guys really think Cipriani is the answer? Geez I hope he's improved a lot from the player that came down to Australia and played for the Melbourne Rebels. He was absolute garbage. He made Quade Cooper look solid.
That was six years ago. He's been playing good rugby ever since being hit by a bus.
Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:16 am
by openclashXX
booji boy wrote:openclashXX wrote:The Mail's reporting
This is the moment he has been waiting and hoping for — and the moment the English rugby public have been waiting and hoping for too, such is the popular acclaim for Cipriani’s creative brilliance.
Doing enough to convince Jones that he even deserves to be considered for a starting place is a triumph in its own right.
At least this will shut them up now
You guys really think Cipriani is the answer? Geez I hope he's improved a lot from the player that came down to Australia and played for the Melbourne Rebels. He was absolute garbage. He made Quade Cooper look solid.
I personally don't think he's the answer - he is a bit more consistent than he was for the Rebels (when he basically played like he was on an extended gap year) but still good for at least two high-profile f*ck ups per game
Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:05 am
by Margin_Walker
He's been on an upward trajectory for sure. Was the best 10 in the AP last season. Who knows whether that will translate to international rugby, but he definitely deserves a second shot at it.
Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:08 am
by Petros
Cips, Marler and Hughes are the only changes according to the Mail
Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:32 am
by polyallstar
Raggs wrote:polyallstar wrote:Raggs wrote:polyallstar wrote:Nieghorn wrote:Has anyone seen a clip of Owen Farrell screaming "It's wrong-g!" into the ref's mic (I think complaining about the French calling for cards / TMO checks)? If not, is the full game up on youtube at all?
In fairness the one I did see was Poite saying "open play, play on" OF then picked up the ball passed it on, for Poite to then give a pen for offside...
Nope. Farrell picked it up offside, Poite assumed he was OK and called play on after, then got called for offside I presume from AR.
regardless of the timing if the ref calls "play on open play", having observed the play from less than 1 yard away, he surely cant be changing his mind.
He wasn't watching where Farrell came from, and assumed that the England captain wouldn't be so stupid as to think they can play the ball having never been onside, from a position several meters offside. I don't consider shouting play on to be legally binding, and if one of his ARs pointed out his error, then that's what he needs to do. I'd have been spitting feathers if that had been allowed to play on as a bok supporter.
He shouted open play which is the call when a ruck hasn't been formed...
Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:36 am
by Raggs
polyallstar wrote:He shouted open play which is the call when a ruck hasn't been formed...
He shouted *after* Farrell had played it, not before, clearly assuming Farrell was legal. It was then obviously pointed out to him that Farrell was offside by a mile.
Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:47 am
by Rugby2023
DragsterDriver wrote:Yeah he’s much improved, but playing outside Young’s and with Farrell at 12 looking for a
Miracle.
Famous last words, but Cipriani & Farrell might dovetail well a la Sexton-Farrell.
Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:50 am
by Raggs
Rugby2023 wrote:DragsterDriver wrote:Yeah he’s much improved, but playing outside Young’s and with Farrell at 12 looking for a
Miracle.
Famous last words, but Cipriani & Farrell might dovetail well a la Sexton-Farrell.
If Farrell runs (I would say more, but this series has seen him drop back down to his default level), then Cips will have a much easier time of it, but then so would have Ford.
Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:57 am
by DragsterDriver
Raggs wrote:Rugby2023 wrote:DragsterDriver wrote:Yeah he’s much improved, but playing outside Young’s and with Farrell at 12 looking for a
Miracle.
Famous last words, but Cipriani & Farrell might dovetail well a la Sexton-Farrell.
If Farrell runs (I would say more, but this series has seen him drop back down to his default level), then Cips will have a much easier time of it, but then so would have Ford.
Nailed it.
No running threat and the rush swamps you and cuts the 10 off. As it has so far.
Does anybody play with a second 10 so far behind the gainline?
Crotty
Basta
Henshaw
All will run a decent angle.
Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:59 am
by Raggs
DragsterDriver wrote:Raggs wrote:Rugby2023 wrote:DragsterDriver wrote:Yeah he’s much improved, but playing outside Young’s and with Farrell at 12 looking for a
Miracle.
Famous last words, but Cipriani & Farrell might dovetail well a la Sexton-Farrell.
If Farrell runs (I would say more, but this series has seen him drop back down to his default level), then Cips will have a much easier time of it, but then so would have Ford.
Nailed it.
No running threat and the rush swamps you and cuts the 10 off. As it has so far.
Does anybody play with a second 10 so far behind the gainline?
Crotty
Basta
Henshaw
All will run a decent angle.
Beale is a distributor, but he'll run a line too.
Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:01 am
by DragsterDriver
Raggs wrote:DragsterDriver wrote:Raggs wrote:Rugby2023 wrote:DragsterDriver wrote:Yeah he’s much improved, but playing outside Young’s and with Farrell at 12 looking for a
Miracle.
Famous last words, but Cipriani & Farrell might dovetail well a la Sexton-Farrell.
If Farrell runs (I would say more, but this series has seen him drop back down to his default level), then Cips will have a much easier time of it, but then so would have Ford.
Nailed it.
No running threat and the rush swamps you and cuts the 10 off. As it has so far.
Does anybody play with a second 10 so far behind the gainline?
Crotty
Basta
Henshaw
All will run a decent angle.
Beale is a distributor, but he'll run a line too.
Really deceptive, good feet and some proper acceleration on him.
Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:52 am
by Petros
Starters
15 Elliot Daly (Wasps, 20 caps)
14 Jonny May (Leicester Tigers, 36 caps)
13 Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 12 caps)
12 Owen Farrell (Saracens, 60 caps) captain
11 Mike Brown (Harlequins, 71 caps)
10 Danny Cipriani (Wasps, 15 caps)
9 Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 76 caps)
1 Joe Marler (Harlequins, 58 caps)
2 Jamie George (Saracens, 27 caps)
3 Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins, 12 caps)
4 Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 53 caps)
5 Maro Itoje (Saracens, 21 caps)
6 Chris Robshaw (Harlequins, 65 caps)
7 Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 3 cap)
8 Nathan Hughes (Wasps, 16 caps)
Finishers
16 Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 7 caps)
17 Alec Hepburn (Exeter Chiefs, 2 caps)
18 Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs, 10 caps)
19 Jonny Hill (Exeter Chiefs, 0 caps)
20 Mark Wilson (Newcastle Falcons, 3 caps)
21 Sam Simmonds (Exeter Chiefs, 7 caps)
22 Ben Spencer (Saracens, 2 cap)
23 Denny Solomona (Sale Sharks, 4 caps)
Shields out ill
Note the 6-2 bench split
Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:59 am
by elfieldinho
I'd like to see England face the fact that Owen Farrell is not an international 12. I don't think he has the timing and instincts of a good 10 personally, but I'd happily see us try him there for a couple of years to find out. His temperament, kicking game and some flashes of improving vision make him worth trying there. I prefer Ford and would love to see him play without Farrell outside him, but we are clearly wedded to Farrell for now.
If it works, great. If it doesn't, he's a back-up with great character who can be an emergency 10.
This pretence that having a slow 12 with no running game won't cripple your attack can't go on much longer. Maybe, just maybe if we had a great 9 instead of two bad ones and a great back row that can clean up stalled ball in midfield. With what we have now I think the choice to play Farrell is just a reluctance to face reality.
Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:08 pm
by DragsterDriver
Bit of a shit team, be suprised if cipriani manages much sandwiched between that pair of dullards.
Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:13 pm
by DragsterDriver
Zero minutes on tour-
Ben Earl, Dan Robson, Alex Lozowski, Nathan Earle, Jason Woodward.
About 5 minutes-
Francis
Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:16 pm
by Raggs
10 really wasn't the problem. 6/2 split would have been handy before too.
Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:18 pm
by Margin_Walker
Ben Earl would have made an impact at the JWC. Probably a great experience for him to be part of the setup, but a shame he's spent the last few week holding tackle bags rather than playing in competitive matches.
He was always a massive long shot for a cap here
Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:19 pm
by Margin_Walker
Nicked from Russ Petty on Twitter:
England starts at 10 since Cipriani's start v SA, 2008 - Ford 39, Farrell 25, Flood 24, Wilkinson 13, Burns 4, Goode 4, Hodgson 2.
Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:24 pm
by Rugby2023
If Cipriani-Farrell-Slade can click in attack, it could get exciting. They're at the mercy of their forwards (or perhaps more accurately SA's) for opportunities though.
Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:28 pm
by Raggs
Rugby2023 wrote:If Cipriani-Farrell-Slade can click in attack, it could get exciting. They're at the mercy of their forwards (or perhaps more accurately SA's) for opportunities though.
You can just as easily say: If Ford-Farrell-Slade can click in attack, it could get exciting. They're at the mercy of their forwards (or perhaps more accurately SA's) for opportunities though.
Farrell can pass. When there's an overlap on, he can get it out there, generally successfully. But he offers no running threat by himself. If Farrell runs, then Cips will be laughing, but Ford would have been too.
I'm glad Cips get's his chance, but 10 wasn't our biggest issue anyway.
Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:32 pm
by backrow
Very surprised Brown and Itoje starting again - series is gone, time to get some fresh blood experience.
What happened to shields ?
Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:34 pm
by Tim13
I feel for Ford, yet again when the wheels come off he is dropped when he is not really the problem.
When ball is quick we benefit from Ford-Farrell as we can go wide-wide really well, slow ball is another matter. As others have stated, off slow ball we dont have a centre who regularly cuts a decent angle/trucks into traffic to keep the defence honest.
I am interested to see how Cips goes but suspect he'll face the same problem.
Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:35 pm
by Raggs
backrow wrote:Very surprised Brown and Itoje starting again - series is gone, time to get some fresh blood experience.
What happened to shields ?
Shields is ill.
I don't get the fresh blood argument to be honest. Brown has still been solid enough, and with Daly, Watson, Nowell and May, we're fine in the back 3. Lawes, Itoje, Kruis, Launchbury and Ewels already well liked locks.
Why do we need to give experience to "fresh blood" when our current blood is generally good enough and fairly young for the most part.