Planet Rugby Forum

Brown will play won't he?

this squad is going to be a sh*tshow, no doubt about it

I suspect Eddie's desire to give as many caps as possible to players that are dead certs for his World Cup squad (even if out-of-position) over picking in-form ones that are injury cover for the WC at best means we'll get selections like Itoje/Lawes at 6, Shields at 8, an unfit Te'o at 13 etc

the one positive is a relatively clean bill of health in the back three, so perhaps we won't see anymore of Brown on the wing

openclashXX wrote:this squad is going to be a sh*tshow, no doubt about it

I suspect Eddie's desire to give as many caps as possible to players that are dead certs for his World Cup squad (even if out-of-position) over picking in-form ones that are injury cover for the WC at best means we'll get selections like Itoje/Lawes at 6, Shields at 8, an unfit Te'o at 13 etc

the one positive is a relatively clean bill of health in the back three, so perhaps we won't see anymore of Brown on the wing

Happen we won’t. Happen we will.

A chance for Eddie to pull rabbits from hats. Oh yes

Two weeks for Lozowski for entering the ruck dangerously. Other citing dismissed.

Sam Skinner (Exeter Chiefs, formerly of England U20s) has been called up for Scotland

Scrumhead wrote:Definitely out:

Launchbury (knee)
Robshaw (knee)
B. Vunipola (arm)
Hughes (suspension)
Robson (ankle)
Joseph (knee)
Watson (Achilles)

Doubtful:

M. Vunipola (calf)
Te’o (dunno?)

Possible:

George (nose)
Itoje (nose)
Farrell (knee)
May (shoulder)
Cokanasiga (concussion)

Probably another couple I missed? I haven’t included Marler.

Simmonds
Hill
Isiekwe
Obano
Clifford
Mullan

The Times are reporting that 16 of the squad are injured.

They also say that England could pick their least experienced (ever?) back row of Rhodes (0 caps), Mercer (0) and Curry (4).

openclashXX wrote:Sam Skinner (Exeter Chiefs, formerly of England U20s) has been called up for Scotland

Meh. Potentially really good, but he's got half a season of senior rugby behind him and Steenson has reclaimed the starting shirt at Exeter.

sockwithaticket wrote:

openclashXX wrote:Sam Skinner (Exeter Chiefs, formerly of England U20s) has been called up for Scotland

Meh. Potentially really good, but he's got half a season of senior rugby behind him and Steenson has reclaimed the starting shirt at Exeter.

Different bloke. Presume you're thinking of Simmonds jr

Nobleman wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:Definitely out:

Launchbury (knee)
Robshaw (knee)
B. Vunipola (arm)
Hughes (suspension)
Robson (ankle)
Joseph (knee)
Watson (Achilles)

Doubtful:

M. Vunipola (calf)
Te’o (dunno?)

Possible:

George (nose)
Itoje (nose)
Farrell (knee)
May (shoulder)
Cokanasiga (concussion)

Probably another couple I missed? I haven’t included Marler.

Simmonds
Hill
Isiekwe
Obano
Clifford
Mullan

The Times are reporting that 16 of the squad are injured.

They also say that England could pick their least experienced (ever?) back row of Rhodes (0 caps), Mercer (0) and Curry (4).

Not sure Hill counts after just one squad appearance, that'd be like lamenting Mike Williams being unavailable. Clifford probably shouldn't be in the conversation either given how long his indefinite injury status and at least 15 month (I think) absence from anything England related. Obano only counts because we know he's in the LH pecking order from Eddie.

Margin_Walker wrote:

sockwithaticket wrote:

openclashXX wrote:Sam Skinner (Exeter Chiefs, formerly of England U20s) has been called up for Scotland

Meh. Potentially really good, but he's got half a season of senior rugby behind him and Steenson has reclaimed the starting shirt at Exeter.

Different bloke. Presume you're thinking of Simmonds jr

I am indeed. They do look kind of similar...

Nobleman wrote: The Times are reporting that 16 of the squad are injured.

They also say that England could pick their least experienced (ever?) back row of Rhodes (0 caps), Mercer (0) and Curry (4).

Someone put on twitter the potential options available & number of caps:

J Haskell 77 caps
B Morgan 31
S Underhill 6
M Wilson 4
T Curry 4
M Kvesic 3
B Shields 2
D Armand 2
Z Mercer 0
M Rhodes 0
G Graham 0
B Earl 0
J Ross 0
J Chisholm 0
B Curry 0
G Thompson 0
J Wray 0

Think the best option for South Africa might to be go for Wilson/Morgan/Underhill with Shields on the bench (tough on T Curry though). Give Mercer a run out against Japan.

Of the available possible configurations, Wilson, Underhill, Morgan is one of the more potentially effective and palatable from a disliking blatant poaches POV.

openclashXX wrote:Sam Skinner (Exeter Chiefs, formerly of England U20s) has been called up for Scotland

Didn't see that one coming (and my brother is his godfather)!

Plastic Sarrie wrote:Two weeks for Lozowski for entering the ruck dangerously. Other citing dismissed.

Apparently with the help of Ruari Jackson’s phone call to the panel, saying that there was nothing in it; always good to hook a brother up when you can

The backrow issue for the autumn internationals comes down to whether Eddie has already chosen his backrow if fit. If he has then you can pick a backrow for the short term giving you the best chance of winning the next 4 games (well 3, as no hope against NZ). If he's still undecided then he needs to pick longer term options.

So short term you could go for

Hask
Underhill
Morgan

if its longer term then a better bet may be

Shields
Curry
Mercer

sockwithaticket wrote:

Nobleman wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:Definitely out:

Launchbury (knee)
Robshaw (knee)
B. Vunipola (arm)
Hughes (suspension)
Robson (ankle)
Joseph (knee)
Watson (Achilles)

Doubtful:

M. Vunipola (calf)
Te’o (dunno?)

Possible:

George (nose)
Itoje (nose)
Farrell (knee)
May (shoulder)
Cokanasiga (concussion)

Probably another couple I missed? I haven’t included Marler.

Simmonds
Hill
Isiekwe
Obano
Clifford
Mullan

The Times are reporting that 16 of the squad are injured.

They also say that England could pick their least experienced (ever?) back row of Rhodes (0 caps), Mercer (0) and Curry (4).

Not sure Hill counts after just one squad appearance, that'd be like lamenting Mike Williams being unavailable. Clifford probably shouldn't be in the conversation either given how long his indefinite injury status and at least 15 month (I think) absence from anything England related. Obano only counts because we know he's in the LH pecking order from Eddie.

It's difficult to tell with EJ but Jonny Hill was on the bench for England's most recent international (ahead of Isiekwe), so you would think he would be in the squad. Obano was called up to the England squad for the 2018 6N before picking up an injury.

Nobleman wrote:

sockwithaticket wrote:

Nobleman wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:Definitely *snip*.

Not sure Hill counts after just one squad appearance, that'd be like lamenting Mike Williams being unavailable. Clifford probably shouldn't be in the conversation either given how long his indefinite injury status and at least 15 month (I think) absence from anything England related. Obano only counts because we know he's in the LH pecking order from Eddie.

It's difficult to tell with EJ but Jonny Hill was on the bench for England's most recent international (ahead of Isiekwe), so you would think he would be in the squad. Obano was called up to the England squad for the 2018 6N before picking up an injury.

I think that was more Eddie hadn't anticipated how badly (in his view) Isiekwe shat the bed and after dicking around with bench splits in the two tests we lost he made sure we had an actual lock replacement should we need him, but I don't believe Eddie had any intention of giving Hill a run in that 3rd test unless one of our locks became too broken to continue playing.

Isiekwe was injured/ill when Hill was "ahead" of him.

Raggs wrote:Isiekwe was injured/ill when Hill was "ahead" of him.

He may have been in a bad place mentally having been hooked after 35 minutes in the 1st test, but it was reported that he was available for selection for both the 2nd and 3rd tests.

Nobleman wrote:

Raggs wrote:Isiekwe was injured/ill when Hill was "ahead" of him.

He may have been in a bad place mentally having been hooked after 35 minutes in the 1st test, but it was reported that he was available for selection for both the 2nd and 3rd tests.

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/exclusiv ... gland-camp

Injured.

Bit pissed off about the Scots snatching Skinner. Revenge for Gary Graham I think.

Skinner is going to be bloody good. Only been a pro for 2 seasons. He has a very good skill set for a second row, and a great engine, also seems to be highly regarded by Chiefs for his leadership skills so expect him to do well internationally. I'm a big fan.

fatheralice wrote:Bit pissed off about the Scots snatching Skinner. Revenge for Gary Graham I think.

Skinner is going to be bloody good. Only been a pro for 2 seasons. He has a very good skill set for a second row, and a great engine, also seems to be highly regarded by Chiefs for his leadership skills so expect him to do well internationally. I'm a big fan.

He might be a late developer, but again, he's a similar age to Hill, Itoje and Ewels. There's also Isiekwe, and Launch is hardly over the hill at 27.

Playing international rugby probably will improve him, but beyond those other options? There's a number of other younger up and coming locks too.

fatheralice wrote:Bit pissed off about the Scots snatching Skinner. Revenge for Gary Graham I think.

Think it's more that they just lack depth and class in the tight 5 and so are willing even this close to the RWC to cast the net fairly wide. The Grey boys are alright, not as good as they're often hyped mind, but after that they've not got much at second row to give anyone real pause for thought.

sockwithaticket wrote:Of the available possible configurations, Wilson, Underhill, Morgan is one of the more potentially effective and palatable from a disliking blatant poaches POV.

I’m not sure what Curry’s done to be suddenly demoted. He was excellent int be last test against SA. I know it’s based on a lack of options but Morgan’s sudden elevation seems to be based on the fact he’s a big lad but doesn’t really account for the fact that he’s no more a tight carrier than Simmonds or Mercer would be. He’s a couple of stone heavier, yes, but all of his best work, particularly when he was at his best for England, was in wider areas as well, so it would still mean a game plan change, however good his LTVG was.

choc wrote:

sockwithaticket wrote:Of the available possible configurations, Wilson, Underhill, Morgan is one of the more potentially effective and palatable from a disliking blatant poaches POV.

I’m not sure what Curry’s done to be suddenly demoted. He was excellent int be last test against SA. I know it’s based on a lack of options but Morgan’s sudden elevation seems to be based on the fact he’s a big lad but doesn’t really account for the fact that he’s no more a tight carrier than Simmonds or Mercer would be. He’s a couple of stone heavier, yes, but all of his best work, particularly when he was at his best for England, was in wider areas as well, so it would still mean a game plan change, however good his LTVG was.

Morgan's about getting a recognised 8 in there somewhere; he's had a good season, not just an LTVG and is absolutely more of a tight carrier than certainly Mercer would be. He did plenty of tight carrying under Lancaster even if he's most effective wider out. Mercer still plays a lot at 6 for Bath and as surprisingly good as his ball carrying has been given his age and frame, do you really think he'll be up to it against the All Blacks? Simmonds is unavailable.

Horses for course, I'd pick Underhill against the Saffas and Curry against most of the rest except possibly France. Wilson's a better player than Curry, ergo the latter misses out or benches for me.

Mako out for 6 weeks (calf)

Isiekwe out for 8 (ankle)

This is ridiculous.

Loosehead now

sockwithaticket wrote:

This is ridiculous.

Loosehead now

Who on earth is left at LH? I've lost track.

Sheridan?

Margin_Walker wrote:

sockwithaticket wrote:

This is ridiculous.

Loosehead now

Who on earth is left at LH? I've lost track.

There's the two Exeter props and Rapava- Ruskin

So Hepburn leading the way with two caps...

Oh well, gives a few players a shot out of the blue. You never know, one may look at home.

There are EQP looseheads all over the place. Ben Harris at Wasps, Alex Waller at Saints, Harrison at Sale etc., but I'm not sure any of them are players you'd comfortably send out against Tier 1 opposition.

Danny Hobbs-Awoyemi

You know it makes sense Eddie.

Margin_Walker wrote:So Hepburn leading the way with two caps...

Oh well, gives a few players a shot out of the blue. You never know, one may look at home.

When Joe Marler retired from international duties, Ben Moon got the call-up rather than Hepburn.

sockwithaticket wrote:There are EQP looseheads all over the place. Ben Harris at Wasps, Alex Waller at Saints, Harrison at Sale etc., but I'm not sure any of them are players you'd comfortably send out against Tier 1 opposition.

Greg Bateman. He once skinned Mike brown.
https://youtu.be/LwLmpGLm23I

Nobleman wrote:

Margin_Walker wrote:So Hepburn leading the way with two caps...

Oh well, gives a few players a shot out of the blue. You never know, one may look at home.

When Joe Marler retired from international duties, Ben Moon got the call-up rather than Hepburn.

Yeah, was talking more international experience than pecking order. Not 100% sold on Hepburn being first in line against some of the teams we'll be facing.

sockwithaticket wrote:There are EQP looseheads all over the place. Ben Harris at Wasps, Alex Waller at Saints, Harrison at Sale etc., but I'm not sure any of them are players you'd comfortably send out against Tier 1 opposition.

Since being driven into the ground by Dorian West, Waller is looking half the player he was, and he was never quite international class in the first place.

Lewis Boyce

I'd hope to see Val picked, as the best scrummaging prop of the lot.

JM2K6 wrote:Lewis Boyce

I'd hope to see Val picked, as the best scrummaging prop of the lot.

Reckon Nathan Catt would potentially be in the frame as well

We might end up with a backrow with about 12 caps between them, so there's an argument that Morgan brings a level of experience even if he isn't quite the player he was, nor fits the Billyball game plan.