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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:38 am 
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crash 669 wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
ovalball wrote:
Youngs is bad enough but how the F&*k are we still saddled with Care and Wiggy despite years of them proving they aren't anywhere near good enough. Does Eddie think the S/H just isn't a very important position - he's made f/all attempt to develop a decent alternative



It's not just SH Eddie has neglected. It's certainly true 9 is one of our weakest positions but Eddie has not only not developed the 3 players per position, he's shifted players around (Robshaw to 7, Daly to 15, Brown to Wing, Itoje to 6) rather than try out new players in their specialist positions. All the observations he stated back when he was sharking for the job and in his early days he has ignored. It's quite ridiculous in many ways how pig headed he has been to even ignore his own advice.


The lack of depth at fullback makes the decision of Haley and Addison to move to Ireland all the more galling. Haley should have been in the mix as a long term replacement for Brown at FB and Addison would have been a good bench option for an injury crisis period like this. As it is EJ's decisions to shift players out of their club positions to FB has seen two good young players bugger off and England's FB stocks look even more bare.


To be honest Haley didn't ever look consistently or noticeably better than the likes of Goode, Miller or Hammersley following that Saxons tour to SA. 15's one of those positions where there're actually quite a lot of EQP guys, but few of them look international quality whereas some of the best performers in the league are foreign players/old: Dollman (EQP, not capped by Wales iir), Veianu, Le Roux, Pennell.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:39 am 
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comets wrote:
Fekitoa to replace Wade at Wasps apparently but from next season..lots of players leaving that sunken ship known as Toulon now..


No thanks, would rather hang on to De Jongh and return to playing Daly more at 13 rather than at wing or fullback.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:53 am 
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Replacing a career winger with a career centre seems odd.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:59 am 
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JM2K6 wrote:
Replacing a career winger with a career centre seems odd.


Theoretically we've got some depth in the back 3 Bassett, Daly, Miller, Le Roux, Watson & some random Kiwi who came in over the Summer and who's yet to make an appearance. Can't remember his name, seemed like a signing for the Prem Cup part of the season so others can put their feet up. It's shame Watson's nowhere near as good as his brother.

Centres we have Le Bourgeois, De Jongh, Lovobalavu, Gopperth and Daly. Unsure as to the contract situation of De Jongh and Lovobalavu, but the latter's not seen much game time for various reasons, so could well be moving on and who knows how much longer Gopperth can go in his mid-30s after successive injuries lasting for almost an entire season?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:59 am 
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JM2K6 wrote:
Replacing a career winger with a career centre seems odd.


Daly to wing I suspect, JdJ stays at 13, Fekitoa to 12 perhaps.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:03 pm 
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sockwithaticket wrote:
crash 669 wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
ovalball wrote:
Youngs is bad enough but how the F&*k are we still saddled with Care and Wiggy despite years of them proving they aren't anywhere near good enough. Does Eddie think the S/H just isn't a very important position - he's made f/all attempt to develop a decent alternative



It's not just SH Eddie has neglected. It's certainly true 9 is one of our weakest positions but Eddie has not only not developed the 3 players per position, he's shifted players around (Robshaw to 7, Daly to 15, Brown to Wing, Itoje to 6) rather than try out new players in their specialist positions. All the observations he stated back when he was sharking for the job and in his early days he has ignored. It's quite ridiculous in many ways how pig headed he has been to even ignore his own advice.


The lack of depth at fullback makes the decision of Haley and Addison to move to Ireland all the more galling. Haley should have been in the mix as a long term replacement for Brown at FB and Addison would have been a good bench option for an injury crisis period like this. As it is EJ's decisions to shift players out of their club positions to FB has seen two good young players bugger off and England's FB stocks look even more bare.


To be honest Haley didn't ever look consistently or noticeably better than the likes of Goode, Miller or Hammersley following that Saxons tour to SA. 15's one of those positions where there're actually quite a lot of EQP guys, but few of them look international quality whereas some of the best performers in the league are foreign players/old: Dollman (EQP, not capped by Wales iir), Veianu, Le Roux, Pennell.


And then a mid-20s English lad turns up, plays well at FB for a couple of games and gets instantly poached by the Welsh....


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:52 pm 
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Aaron Morris will save us.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:57 pm 
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Tom Parton. 5 tries in 5 appearances this season from FB. Making tries for others too. Will fit right in at Bath

We'll be fine...


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:10 pm 
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Margin_Walker wrote:
Tom Parton. 5 tries in 5 appearances this season from FB. Making tries for others too. Will fit right in at Bath

We'll be fine...


:lol:

Tbf, Brown’s performances in RSA and in the Sarries game recently suggest to me that he has enough in the tank to make it to the RWC as first choice. All very well slating Eddie and saying that he should’ve developed this or that player into a top class international FB, but do guys like Mike Haley really have the goods to make it? Alex Goode frequently looks imperious for Sarries at club level, but didn’t make it as an international FB.

Brown’s game has deteriorated over the last few years but, at his best, he’s still the best all-round 15 we have imo.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:13 pm 
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I yearn for an English clone of Cedric Heymans. Might scare the shit out of his own team every now and the rather than the opposition but by fuck would it be entertaining.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:16 pm 
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Laws extends his contract at Saints till 2021


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:18 pm 
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Joost wrote:
Margin_Walker wrote:
Tom Parton. 5 tries in 5 appearances this season from FB. Making tries for others too. Will fit right in at Bath

We'll be fine...


:lol:

Tbf, Brown’s performances in RSA and in the Sarries game recently suggest to me that he has enough in the tank to make it to the RWC as first choice. All very well slating Eddie and saying that he should’ve developed this or that player into a top class international FB, but do guys like Mike Haley really have the goods to make it? Alex Goode frequently looks imperious for Sarries at club level, but didn’t make it as an international FB.

Brown’s game has deteriorated over the last few years but, at his best, he’s still the best all-round 15 we have imo.


Yep, full back isn't my primary concern in the short term. Brown can still do a job there and Daly/Ashton stepping in wouldn't fill me with dread.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:44 pm 
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Jack Clifford is alive! He's made the bench for the match against Grenoble.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:19 pm 
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The Man Without Fear wrote:
Jack Clifford is alive! He's made the bench for the match against Grenoble.


Probably sit down on it too hard and put himself out for the season with a sprained arse.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:18 pm 
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If we want a like for like replacement for Vunipola to carry in to traffic, we should just play Tuilagi at 8.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:46 pm 
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Double wrote:
The Man Without Fear wrote:
Jack Clifford is alive! He's made the bench for the match against Grenoble.


Probably sit down on it too hard and put himself out for the season with a sprained arse.


Splinters. Bad ones.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 1:42 am 
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choc wrote:
If we want a like for like replacement for Vunipola to carry in to traffic, we should just play Tuilagi at 8.

Well we played Burgess at 12......



(Although we lost the game when he got subbed)


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:11 am 
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The Man Without Fear wrote:
Jack Clifford is alive! He's made the bench for the match against Grenoble.


Very pleased about that. Although, as with Tuilagi, let’s not get excited until he strings a run of injury-free games together.

Perfect timing for Quins though with Robshaw out.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:11 am 
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Margin_Walker wrote:
Tom Parton. 5 tries in 5 appearances this season from FB. Making tries for others too. Will fit right in at Bath

We'll be fine...


Really liked the look of Parton for the U20s. How is Loader doing? He looked good too.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:21 am 
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happyhooker wrote:
choc wrote:
If we want a like for like replacement for Vunipola to carry in to traffic, we should just play Tuilagi at 8.

Well we played Burgess at 12......



(Although we lost the game when he got subbed)


Tbh I've often thought that a lot of the less skillful, crash ball only centres (Latter day Tindall, Noon, etc.) could be replaced by a backrower with no noticeable difference. Hell, sometimes the backrowers would be more capable of delivering a pass.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:25 am 
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sockwithaticket wrote:
happyhooker wrote:
choc wrote:
If we want a like for like replacement for Vunipola to carry in to traffic, we should just play Tuilagi at 8.

Well we played Burgess at 12......



(Although we lost the game when he got subbed)


Tbh I've often thought that a lot of the less skillful, crash ball only centres (Latter day Tindall, Noon, etc.) could be replaced by a backrower with no noticeable difference. Hell, sometimes the backrowers would be more capable of delivering a pass.

Was it hooper or pockock who played a decent part of a test for the Aussies at 12 when they had a freak run of injuries? Did pretty well.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:28 am 
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happyhooker wrote:
sockwithaticket wrote:
happyhooker wrote:
choc wrote:
If we want a like for like replacement for Vunipola to carry in to traffic, we should just play Tuilagi at 8.

Well we played Burgess at 12......



(Although we lost the game when he got subbed)


Tbh I've often thought that a lot of the less skillful, crash ball only centres (Latter day Tindall, Noon, etc.) could be replaced by a backrower with no noticeable difference. Hell, sometimes the backrowers would be more capable of delivering a pass.

Was it hooper or pockock who played a decent part of a test for the Aussies at 12 when they had a freak run of injuries? Did pretty well.


Pretty sure it was Hooper and it's no surprise. He's quick, he can pass and offload and carry. What more do want except perhaps a kicking option?

Certainly if you compare someone like him to Barritt, Tompkins, Burrell and others I'm blocking out who has the more well-rounded skillset of an ideal centre?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 12:14 pm 
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Just caught the brief highlights of Worcester's win over Stade last weekend.


Jesus, that Ollie Lawrence is some player....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2tnhUhzXA4

The only try he wasn't a key part of was the first.

Second try: A half-break and pass to make the linebreak, chased the kick-through and nearly made it to the line before the ball was recycled for the score.
Third try: Nothing on... until he took on the defence, made the outside break and gave a lovely little offload to put Howe over
Fourth try: Stepped and broke the line to set up the score
Fifth try: As the defence tracked him he put a player through the gap that opened up.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 12:21 pm 
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sockwithaticket wrote:
happyhooker wrote:
choc wrote:
If we want a like for like replacement for Vunipola to carry in to traffic, we should just play Tuilagi at 8.

Well we played Burgess at 12......



(Although we lost the game when he got subbed)


Tbh I've often thought that a lot of the less skillful, crash ball only centres (Latter day Tindall, Noon, etc.) could be replaced by a backrower with no noticeable difference. Hell, sometimes the backrowers would be more capable of delivering a pass.


When there were still discussions about where Harry Thacker should play, I thought that he had the build and skill-set to make a successful conversion to centre. He'd have a similar style to Dan Hipkiss, but probably a better passing game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHxZ-MkrQpA


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:24 pm 
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Scrumhead wrote:
Margin_Walker wrote:
Tom Parton. 5 tries in 5 appearances this season from FB. Making tries for others too. Will fit right in at Bath

We'll be fine...


Really liked the look of Parton for the U20s. How is Loader doing? He looked good too.


Halftime at Castle Park. Loader's just scored a cracker against Donny. He's a strong lad. Been playing well without getting on the score sheet until now.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:12 pm 
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4071 wrote:
Just caught the brief highlights of Worcester's win over Stade last weekend.


Jesus, that Ollie Lawrence is some player....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2tnhUhzXA4

The only try he wasn't a key part of was the first.

Second try: A half-break and pass to make the linebreak, chased the kick-through and nearly made it to the line before the ball was recycled for the score.
Third try: Nothing on... until he took on the defence, made the outside break and gave a lovely little offload to put Howe over
Fourth try: Stepped and broke the line to set up the score
Fifth try: As the defence tracked him he put a player through the gap that opened up.


Yeah - I thought the same. Looked like the best player on the pitch and a massive part of what was a hugely impressive result.

He and Mills could be a great partnership for Worcester. Forget Te’o.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:40 pm 
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Scrumhead wrote:
Margin_Walker wrote:
Tom Parton. 5 tries in 5 appearances this season from FB. Making tries for others too. Will fit right in at Bath

We'll be fine...


Really liked the look of Parton for the U20s. How is Loader doing? He looked good too.


Re: Parton, we could do worse than pick him as an apprentice in the senior squad. No chance of a start but we could always so with more tackle dollys.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:14 pm 
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Lewington is seriously rapid. Has Ashton scored more tries than him this season?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:19 pm 
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Bit of an unfair comparison, that :lol:


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:29 pm 
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JM2K6 wrote:
Aaron Morris will save us.


I know it's an unpopular opinion, even with Quins fans, to talk up any Quins player outside of the anointed quartet of Robshaw/Care/Marler/Brown

but I actually quite like Morris as a player - not saying he's necessarily England quality but he's a silky runner with a big left boot, could do a lot worse


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:34 pm 
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JM2K6 wrote:
Bit of an unfair comparison, that :lol:


Well we should select on merit and form. Though Ashton fits Eddie's dickhead preference. I assume cips is just the wrong type of dickhead.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:39 pm 
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openclashXX wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
Aaron Morris will save us.


I know it's an unpopular opinion, even with Quins fans, to talk up any Quins player outside of the anointed quartet of Robshaw/Care/Marler/Brown

but I actually quite like Morris as a player - not saying he's necessarily England quality but he's a silky runner with a big left boot, could do a lot worse


He has the goods, it's whether he has the attitude. He can really switch off sometimes. When he's on his game he's excellent. I think Harry Mallinder will probably settle down at 15 and provide a live option for England, though.

Just watching the Sarries game now, already had the patented Alex Goode pass into touch to go with his other errors the journos love to forget about when bleating about him not making the squad...


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:39 pm 
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Petej wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
Bit of an unfair comparison, that :lol:


Well we should select on merit and form. Though Ashton fits Eddie's dickhead preference. I assume cips is just the wrong type of dickhead.


Ashton being banned doesn't really change his form over the past couple of seasons, and I strongly suspect he's there largely as a fullback option.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:50 pm 
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Petej wrote:
Lewington is seriously rapid. Has Ashton scored more tries than him this season?


Lewington has 6 tries (in 7 games) and Ashton has 3 (in 1 game)


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:35 pm 
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pjm1 wrote:
Scrumhead wrote:
Margin_Walker wrote:
Tom Parton. 5 tries in 5 appearances this season from FB. Making tries for others too. Will fit right in at Bath

We'll be fine...


Really liked the look of Parton for the U20s. How is Loader doing? He looked good too.


Re: Parton, we could do worse than pick him as an apprentice in the senior squad. No chance of a start but we could always so with more tackle dollys.


I'm pretty sure he'll be capped at some point. He's got a better skill set than any back I've seen come through at LI, albeit not freakish physically like the Bath exiles.

Had to be helped from the field injured today though. Hopefully nothing serious.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:25 am 
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copied from another thread but if anyone's struggling for things to watch, you should take a look at John Smit's commentary on the full 2007 RWC final - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWhcSbg ... e=youtu.be

a hideous final to re-watch (in terms of actual rugby quality) if not for Smit's insights. despite the jokeshop nature of that England team making the final, they were genuinely fearful of the English scrum (esp Sheridan vs their tighthead, Smit literally says the words "we didn't want to make the scrums contestable, we just wanted the ball in and away") and Wilko's ability to drop a goal from anywhere.

also you can see where Eddie Jones might have formed his opinion of England being at their best when they're a bunch of niggly bastards comes from - guys like Vickery, Shaw and Corry will never go down as the most skillful players but made life miserable for the Bok 9 that day

honestly if it weren't for Matfield destroying the English lineout that day we probably would've won that :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:39 pm 
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Wtaf?

Any ideas as to how accurate this is about the season??

https://amp.theguardian.com/sport/2018/ ... ssion=true


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:53 pm 
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Carl Fearns really has a high opinion of himself, doesn't he? Hey Carl - do something in Europe and THEN you can complain about not being picked for England despite opting against coming back to English rugby to push for selection.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:55 pm 
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Oh, yeah, the season. Right.

It's utterly bonkers and I am heartily sick of the morons who run the sport in this country going out of their way to make everything worse for everyone, from ticket prices to scheduling to internecine warfare to being incapable of enforcing their own rules.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:34 am 
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4071 wrote:
sockwithaticket wrote:
happyhooker wrote:
choc wrote:
If we want a like for like replacement for Vunipola to carry in to traffic, we should just play Tuilagi at 8.

Well we played Burgess at 12......



(Although we lost the game when he got subbed)


Tbh I've often thought that a lot of the less skillful, crash ball only centres (Latter day Tindall, Noon, etc.) could be replaced by a backrower with no noticeable difference. Hell, sometimes the backrowers would be more capable of delivering a pass.


When there were still discussions about where Harry Thacker should play, I thought that he had the build and skill-set to make a successful conversion to centre. He'd have a similar style to Dan Hipkiss, but probably a better passing game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHxZ-MkrQpA


To think, we’ll never know how good Hipkiss was at passing.


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