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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:34 pm 
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TopSpacker still talking utter arse I see. Even forgetting Ford's presence and performances (which have on the whole been good to very good) in a deeply inconsistent Tigers side, the fact that he was a central component of the 18 game win streak which included some tough games, and in particular included the Gustard Special in Melbourne, and most of all included coming on and massively shoring up our game in the first test in Australia, should put an end to any serious idea that Ford lacks the temperament for big games of rugby. He's one of the best English fly halves I can remember in a good while when the going is good, and fronts up fine enough when it isn't. I'd honestly be fine with going back to the Ford-Faz axis but swapping JJ for Manu or even Te'o. So much of the team is built around Faz's presence but if you were judging purely on ability to perform the role I find it hard to justify putting him at 10 over Ford. I more or less think the exact opposite of this:

DragsterDriver wrote:
Which lands me at-

If we MUST play farrell, he hampers us less at 10 than 12.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:43 pm 
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DragsterDriver wrote:
Which lands me at-

If we MUST play farrell, he hampers us less at 10 than 12.


You’ve got that the wrong way round. With Ford at 10 and Farrell our backline functions well; look at some of the tries the backs have scored over the last 3 years. The backline has been fine. The games we’ve lost have been fudge all to do with who’s at 10 or 12.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:52 pm 
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Yeah, I'm with the other lads, Dragster. I think Farrell at 12 allows us to work around his deficiencies more effectively than starting him at 10 with Ford nowhere to be seen.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:53 pm 
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sockwithaticket wrote:
Yeah, I'm with the other lads, Dragster. I think Farrell at 12 allows us to work around his deficiencies more effectively than starting him at 10 with Ford nowhere to be seen.

I suspect he's mistyped


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:56 pm 
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Yeah sorry I’ve smashed my ankle up and my brains gone to mush :blush: :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:58 pm 
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Would be interesting to see Faz n Ford swap clubs for a season. Ford's done sweet fa in club rugby but Faz gets grief for an armchair ride with Sarries. A playmaker 12 like Eastmond helps Ford as would a strong running threat like Teo but it should also be remembered that Faz is hampered by Brad who's a non entity in attack.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:21 pm 
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Indeed.

Eastmond has only just joined Tigers and even if his presence benefits Ford, he is hampered by a poor pack and Youngs at 9 who combine to serve up a pretty crappy platform.

Barritt is a non-entity in attack but at least Farrell receives the ball in space and on the front foot.

Comparing them for England is tough as both are equally hampered by Youngs’ delivery.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:56 pm 
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openclashXX wrote:
Just to counterbalance some of the crazy OTT posts re Farrell - here's a quote from Alex Goode in an interview recently

Quote:
“I don’t think I have ever come across someone who, without question, improves with his goalkicking when the pressure gets even more intense.

“That final kick against South Africa last Saturday from the touchline is a great example and it is a talent you very rarely see. I beat him in a kicking contest at the club but there is no way I would beat him in a game situation because he goes to a different level and that is his mentality. He didn’t care about beating me!”


By all means have a go at Farrell for lots of other things, but to try and have a go at his goalkicking is absurd


Farrell is a good goal kicker. No one denies that. He's had a fair few shite high profile misses though and his percentage is hardky spectacular these days. Wilkinson he is not.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:58 pm 
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TopNacker wrote:
Ford is only good when the goings good, has no balls for the big occasion, is a turnstile in the tackle, and is a sub-par place kicker. I’d prefer Smith at Quinn’s to be honest, at least he has a bit of terrier in him.



All the the bold is quite incorrect.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:00 pm 
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SaintK wrote:
happyhooker wrote:
Scrumhead wrote:
Both sentences were bollocks.

I’ve come to the conclusion that there an awful lot of posters on here (and other forums) who watch a minimal amount of rugby and form opinions based upon whatever they think is fashionable.

Anyone who actually watches Ford play for what is a highly average Leicester team can’t have any doubts about his ability to perform when the going is anything but good.

I was trying to avoid a shitfight about Smith who I think could be very good

Check young Grayson of Saints out. Looks at least as potentially good as Smith


He does but in the last U20 world cup Smith at 10 looked way better than Grayson.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:03 pm 
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Scrumhead wrote:
Indeed.

Eastmond has only just joined Tigers and even if his presence benefits Ford, he is hampered by a poor pack and Youngs at 9 who combine to serve up a pretty crappy platform.

Barritt is a non-entity in attack but at least Farrell receives the ball in space and on the front foot.

Comparing them for England is tough as both are equally hampered by Youngs’ delivery.


Whoever thought Leicester would ever get to that state?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:43 pm 
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eldanielfire wrote:
Scrumhead wrote:
Indeed.

Eastmond has only just joined Tigers and even if his presence benefits Ford, he is hampered by a poor pack and Youngs at 9 who combine to serve up a pretty crappy platform.

Barritt is a non-entity in attack but at least Farrell receives the ball in space and on the front foot.

Comparing them for England is tough as both are equally hampered by Youngs’ delivery.


Whoever thought Leicester would ever get to that state?


It's pretty astonishing isn't it. Makes more sense when you look at the forwards coach's CV though

https://www.leicestertigers.com/player/mark-bakewell
Quote:
Born in Christchurch, New Zealand, he grew up in Australia and gave lengthy service to Eastern Suburbs as a prop or back-rower. He then spent six years as coach for the Sydney club and has since travelled throughout the rugby world.

He was head coach of Brive in France and forwards coach at Beziers before spending three years in the Premiership with Bath from 2006. Subsequent moves took him to Melbourne Rebels, Eastern Suburbs again, Tonga and Suntory Sungoliath in Japan before spending two years back in England with Bristol.

He has also coached the Barbarians with All Blacks boss Steve Hansen and worked with the Australian national team under three head coaches.


Doesn't exactly scream "the best in the business at producing rampaging packs"


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:57 pm 
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eldanielfire wrote:
SaintK wrote:
happyhooker wrote:
Scrumhead wrote:
Both sentences were bollocks.

I’ve come to the conclusion that there an awful lot of posters on here (and other forums) who watch a minimal amount of rugby and form opinions based upon whatever they think is fashionable.

Anyone who actually watches Ford play for what is a highly average Leicester team can’t have any doubts about his ability to perform when the going is anything but good.

I was trying to avoid a shitfight about Smith who I think could be very good

Check young Grayson of Saints out. Looks at least as potentially good as Smith


He does but in the last U20 world cup Smith at 10 looked way better than Grayson.

I don't know about "way better" but he certainly showed up well and made his experience as an EJ aapprentice tell
Grayson certainly looking improved under Boyd's management


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:03 pm 
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SaintK wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
SaintK wrote:
happyhooker wrote:
Scrumhead wrote:
Both sentences were bollocks.

I’ve come to the conclusion that there an awful lot of posters on here (and other forums) who watch a minimal amount of rugby and form opinions based upon whatever they think is fashionable.

Anyone who actually watches Ford play for what is a highly average Leicester team can’t have any doubts about his ability to perform when the going is anything but good.

I was trying to avoid a shitfight about Smith who I think could be very good

Check young Grayson of Saints out. Looks at least as potentially good as Smith


He does but in the last U20 world cup Smith at 10 looked way better than Grayson.

I don't know about "way better" but he certainly showed up well and made his experience as an EJ aapprentice tell
Grayson certainly looking improved under Boyd's management



I thought Grayson was good, but when Smith was on he was another class. They are both young and Smith's relatively high number of top flight games could have meant he's better developed so far.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:04 pm 
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Chuckles1188 wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
Scrumhead wrote:
Indeed.

Eastmond has only just joined Tigers and even if his presence benefits Ford, he is hampered by a poor pack and Youngs at 9 who combine to serve up a pretty crappy platform.

Barritt is a non-entity in attack but at least Farrell receives the ball in space and on the front foot.

Comparing them for England is tough as both are equally hampered by Youngs’ delivery.


Whoever thought Leicester would ever get to that state?


It's pretty astonishing isn't it. Makes more sense when you look at the forwards coach's CV though

https://www.leicestertigers.com/player/mark-bakewell
Quote:
Born in Christchurch, New Zealand, he grew up in Australia and gave lengthy service to Eastern Suburbs as a prop or back-rower. He then spent six years as coach for the Sydney club and has since travelled throughout the rugby world.

He was head coach of Brive in France and forwards coach at Beziers before spending three years in the Premiership with Bath from 2006. Subsequent moves took him to Melbourne Rebels, Eastern Suburbs again, Tonga and Suntory Sungoliath in Japan before spending two years back in England with Bristol.

He has also coached the Barbarians with All Blacks boss Steve Hansen and worked with the Australian national team under three head coaches.


Doesn't exactly scream "the best in the business at producing rampaging packs"


I agree. He smacks to me of someone who is well connected and good at networking rather than being excellent at their job.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:08 pm 
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Grayson Jr is and will be getting more game time this season, and looks better for it.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:29 pm 
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eldanielfire wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
Scrumhead wrote:
Indeed.

Eastmond has only just joined Tigers and even if his presence benefits Ford, he is hampered by a poor pack and Youngs at 9 who combine to serve up a pretty crappy platform.

Barritt is a non-entity in attack but at least Farrell receives the ball in space and on the front foot.

Comparing them for England is tough as both are equally hampered by Youngs’ delivery.


Whoever thought Leicester would ever get to that state?


It's pretty astonishing isn't it. Makes more sense when you look at the forwards coach's CV though

https://www.leicestertigers.com/player/mark-bakewell
Quote:
Born in Christchurch, New Zealand, he grew up in Australia and gave lengthy service to Eastern Suburbs as a prop or back-rower. He then spent six years as coach for the Sydney club and has since travelled throughout the rugby world.

He was head coach of Brive in France and forwards coach at Beziers before spending three years in the Premiership with Bath from 2006. Subsequent moves took him to Melbourne Rebels, Eastern Suburbs again, Tonga and Suntory Sungoliath in Japan before spending two years back in England with Bristol.

He has also coached the Barbarians with All Blacks boss Steve Hansen and worked with the Australian national team under three head coaches.


Doesn't exactly scream "the best in the business at producing rampaging packs"


I agree. He smacks to me of someone who is well connected and good at networking rather than being excellent at their job.

He's improved Tigers since joining. It's a tough gig as a coach when you can only work with what you have. Time will tell if he can build a top pack with Tigers resources.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:39 pm 
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DragsterDriver wrote:
Yeah sorry I’ve smashed my ankle up and my brains gone to mush :blush: :lol:


Gone?!?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:49 pm 
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pandion wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
Scrumhead wrote:
Indeed.

Eastmond has only just joined Tigers and even if his presence benefits Ford, he is hampered by a poor pack and Youngs at 9 who combine to serve up a pretty crappy platform.

Barritt is a non-entity in attack but at least Farrell receives the ball in space and on the front foot.

Comparing them for England is tough as both are equally hampered by Youngs’ delivery.


Whoever thought Leicester would ever get to that state?


It's pretty astonishing isn't it. Makes more sense when you look at the forwards coach's CV though

https://www.leicestertigers.com/player/mark-bakewell
Quote:
Born in Christchurch, New Zealand, he grew up in Australia and gave lengthy service to Eastern Suburbs as a prop or back-rower. He then spent six years as coach for the Sydney club and has since travelled throughout the rugby world.

He was head coach of Brive in France and forwards coach at Beziers before spending three years in the Premiership with Bath from 2006. Subsequent moves took him to Melbourne Rebels, Eastern Suburbs again, Tonga and Suntory Sungoliath in Japan before spending two years back in England with Bristol.

He has also coached the Barbarians with All Blacks boss Steve Hansen and worked with the Australian national team under three head coaches.


Doesn't exactly scream "the best in the business at producing rampaging packs"


I agree. He smacks to me of someone who is well connected and good at networking rather than being excellent at their job.

He's improved Tigers since joining. It's a tough gig as a coach when you can only work with what you have. Time will tell if he can build a top pack with Tigers resources.


It's a fair point, Tigers aren't the go-to club for top forwards with international ambitions the way they used to be


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:44 pm 
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Chuckles1188 wrote:
TopSpacker still talking utter arse I see. Even forgetting Ford's presence and performances (which have on the whole been good to very good) in a deeply inconsistent Tigers side, the fact that he was a central component of the 18 game win streak which included some tough games, and in particular included the Gustard Special in Melbourne, and most of all included coming on and massively shoring up our game in the first test in Australia, should put an end to any serious idea that Ford lacks the temperament for big games of rugby. He's one of the best English fly halves I can remember in a good while when the going is good, and fronts up fine enough when it isn't. I'd honestly be fine with going back to the Ford-Faz axis but swapping JJ for Manu or even Te'o. So much of the team is built around Faz's presence but if you were judging purely on ability to perform the role I find it hard to justify putting him at 10 over Ford. I more or less think the exact opposite of this:

DragsterDriver wrote:
Which lands me at-

If we MUST play farrell, he hampers us less at 10 than 12.

Spot on. Unusually batshit comment form dragster.

But wait, how many European cups has ford won???!!!!111


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:48 pm 
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The Man Without Fear wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Yeah sorry I’ve smashed my ankle up and my brains gone to mush :blush: :lol:


Gone?!?


Well worse than usual, i'm in pain and sleep deprived. On good form i'm no pub quiz champion :roll:


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:34 pm 
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England v Japan

15 Elliot Daly (Wasps, 23 caps), 14 Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby, uncapped), 13 Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs, 28 caps), 12 Alex Lozowski (Saracens, 4 caps), 11 Chris Ashton (Sale Sharks, 41 caps), 10 George Ford (Leicester Tigers, 49 caps) captain, 9 Danny Care (Harlequins, 83 caps), 1 Alec Hepburn (Exeter Chiefs, 4 caps), 2 Jamie George (Saracens, 30 caps), 3 Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs, 13 caps), 4 Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby, 8 caps), 5 Maro Itoje (Saracens, 24 caps) vice-captain, 6 Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 66 caps), 7 Mark Wilson (Newcastle Falcons, 6 caps), 8 Zach Mercer (Bath Rugby, 1 cap).

Finishers
16 Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints, 95 caps), 17 Ben Moon (Exeter Chiefs, 2 caps), 18 Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins, 15 caps), 19 Ted Hill (Worcester Warriors, uncapped), 20 Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby, 7 caps), 21 Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens, 31 caps), 22 Owen Farrell (Saracens, 63 caps), 23 Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 15 caps).

Nowell at centre! Hill on the bench! Wigglesworth :?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:39 pm 
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He's certainly mixed it up :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:44 pm 
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Shame that any success will be brushed off with "It was only Japan."


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:44 pm 
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The rise and rise of Ted Hill continues :thumbup:

Anyone fancy making a match thread?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:46 pm 
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19 Ted Hill
20 Sam Underhill

:lol:

Fun looking team


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:54 pm 
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Fascinating midfield in that team


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:56 pm 
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Margin_Walker wrote:
19 Ted Hill
20 Sam Underhill
21 Richard Overthehill
:lol:

Fun looking team


:thumbup:


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:07 pm 
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Chuckles1188 wrote:
Fascinating midfield in that team


I really like the look of it.

Sadly, Raggs is right. If they go well, the caveat will be 'it was only Japan'. If it doesn't turn out to be a disaster, I'd love to see that 10 - 12 -13 for the Wallabies.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:10 pm 
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sockwithaticket wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
Fascinating midfield in that team


I really like the look of it.

Sadly, Raggs is right. If they go well, the caveat will be 'it was only Japan'. If it doesn't turn out to be a disaster, I'd love to see that 10 - 12 -13 for the Wallabies.


Me too :thumbup:

And yes, that is the caveat. But, it potentially opens the door to trying Nowell out in the midfield more frequently, and I really like that idea.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:14 pm 
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I can see, just, the theory of sticking a lock at 6 if it's a massive oppo or you're up against a huge lineout. But in this game?

Nowell at 13 is interesting


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:15 pm 
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If the backline can get good ball ( *looks at Danny Care* ) it could be fun. Plenty of pace in there.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:24 pm 
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Chuckles1188 wrote:
sockwithaticket wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
Fascinating midfield in that team


I really like the look of it.

Sadly, Raggs is right. If they go well, the caveat will be 'it was only Japan'. If it doesn't turn out to be a disaster, I'd love to see that 10 - 12 -13 for the Wallabies.


Me too :thumbup:

And yes, that is the caveat. But, it potentially opens the door to trying Nowell out in the midfield more frequently, and I really like that idea.


Yeah, if he's not going to get a go at fullback and fulfil a potential destiny of Brown mk II, then centre's the next best place for him long term.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:25 pm 
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sockwithaticket wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
sockwithaticket wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
Fascinating midfield in that team


I really like the look of it.

Sadly, Raggs is right. If they go well, the caveat will be 'it was only Japan'. If it doesn't turn out to be a disaster, I'd love to see that 10 - 12 -13 for the Wallabies.


Me too :thumbup:

And yes, that is the caveat. But, it potentially opens the door to trying Nowell out in the midfield more frequently, and I really like that idea.


Yeah, if he's not going to get a go at fullback and fulfil a potential destiny of Brown mk II, then centre's the next best place for him long term.



Why? He's a good wing. He's not going to get a midfield spot.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:28 pm 
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Lawes at f**king blindside. Christ. I look forward to him bring blasted off the ball by a winger per the last 6N (France or Italy match).


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:34 pm 
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eldanielfire wrote:
sockwithaticket wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
sockwithaticket wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
Fascinating midfield in that team


I really like the look of it.

Sadly, Raggs is right. If they go well, the caveat will be 'it was only Japan'. If it doesn't turn out to be a disaster, I'd love to see that 10 - 12 -13 for the Wallabies.


Me too :thumbup:

And yes, that is the caveat. But, it potentially opens the door to trying Nowell out in the midfield more frequently, and I really like that idea.


Yeah, if he's not going to get a go at fullback and fulfil a potential destiny of Brown mk II, then centre's the next best place for him long term.



Why? He's a good wing. He's not going to get a midfield spot.


He's not quick enough for wing and he's only going to get slower. Against the Saffas when he and May did their dance down the touchline there was a gap on the inside between two defenders which a May, Daly or Watson would have blown right through, Nowell cut back to the outside where there was less space, but where he probably had a better chance of busting a one on one tackle due to his skill set.

There will always be young wingers coming through with more pace than Nowell has. We don't really want another Usain Cueto situation do we? Lovely rugby player with a profound lack of gas for his position.

As for him getting a midfield spot - Slade is unconvincing, Tuilagi's perma-crocked, Jones doesn't seem to see Daly as a centre, Te'o's ok yet frequently injured and far from nailed on. His only real competition would be JJ if he comes back from injury in good form and Loz (who could potentially be a long awaited answer at 12).


Last edited by sockwithaticket on Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:36 pm 
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Quote:
19 Ted Hill
20 Sam Underhill
21 Richard Overthehill


:lol:

Please someone tweet that to the RFU's team announcement!


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:43 pm 
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Would have preferred 10. Ford. 12 Teo. 13. Lozowski


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:55 pm 
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eldanielfire wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
Scrumhead wrote:
Indeed.

Eastmond has only just joined Tigers and even if his presence benefits Ford, he is hampered by a poor pack and Youngs at 9 who combine to serve up a pretty crappy platform.

Barritt is a non-entity in attack but at least Farrell receives the ball in space and on the front foot.

Comparing them for England is tough as both are equally hampered by Youngs’ delivery.


Whoever thought Leicester would ever get to that state?


It's pretty astonishing isn't it. Makes more sense when you look at the forwards coach's CV though

https://www.leicestertigers.com/player/mark-bakewell
Quote:
Born in Christchurch, New Zealand, he grew up in Australia and gave lengthy service to Eastern Suburbs as a prop or back-rower. He then spent six years as coach for the Sydney club and has since travelled throughout the rugby world.

He was head coach of Brive in France and forwards coach at Beziers before spending three years in the Premiership with Bath from 2006. Subsequent moves took him to Melbourne Rebels, Eastern Suburbs again, Tonga and Suntory Sungoliath in Japan before spending two years back in England with Bristol.

He has also coached the Barbarians with All Blacks boss Steve Hansen and worked with the Australian national team under three head coaches.


Doesn't exactly scream "the best in the business at producing rampaging packs"


I agree. He smacks to me of someone who is well connected and good at networking rather than being excellent at their job.


Mind you, he hasn't been there long and he's working with what he inherited, which was a very large number of decent forwards who would all make the squad of any other Premiership side, but few very good ones who would undoubtedly start anywhere else.

Under Cockerill and MOC we went for depth. Massive depth. Our third-choice props are internationals, for example. We have five hookers with regular Premiership experience. We coudl start with any two of five locks without a drop off in quality (though unlike Sarries, this is not as a result of needing to cover for players lost to internaitonal duty.

There is little to no drop off between our first choice and second choice pack. But that kind of depth usually results in a sacrifice in terms of quality. And that's what Bakewell has had to work with since he arrived.

Props:
Ellis Genge and Dan Cole
David Feao and Greg Bateman
Campese Ma'afu and Gaston Cortes
Facundo Gigena and Joe Heyes

(Note that Sarries somehow manage with just 5-6 props, even when losing Vunipola to internationals. Sale seem to manage with 4-5. Leicester seem to insist on a minimum of 8, with most of them full internationals. For some reason.)

Hookers: Tom Youngs, Tatafu Polota-Nau, Jake Kerr, Jimmy Stevens, Ross McMillan

Locks: Mike Williams, Will Spencer, Harry Wells, Graham Kitchener, Mike Fitzgerald.


Try picking a first choice tight 5 from that lot and you'd have almost as many different options as people you ask. And not one of those options would be a match for the Sarries or Exeter tight 5.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:58 pm 
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Tigers' rolling injurypocalypse probably has something to do with that policy


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