TopSpacker still talking utter arse I see. Even forgetting Ford's presence and performances (which have on the whole been good to very good) in a deeply inconsistent Tigers side, the fact that he was a central component of the 18 game win streak which included some tough games, and in particular included the Gustard Special in Melbourne, and most of all included coming on and massively shoring up our game in the first test in Australia, should put an end to any serious idea that Ford lacks the temperament for big games of rugby. He's one of the best English fly halves I can remember in a good while when the going is good, and fronts up fine enough when it isn't. I'd honestly be fine with going back to the Ford-Faz axis but swapping JJ for Manu or even Te'o. So much of the team is built around Faz's presence but if you were judging purely on ability to perform the role I find it hard to justify putting him at 10 over Ford. I more or less think the exact opposite of this:

You’ve got that the wrong way round. With Ford at 10 and Farrell our backline functions well; look at some of the tries the backs have scored over the last 3 years. The backline has been fine. The games we’ve lost have been fudge all to do with who’s at 10 or 12.

Yeah, I'm with the other lads, Dragster. I think Farrell at 12 allows us to work around his deficiencies more effectively than starting him at 10 with Ford nowhere to be seen.

I suspect he's mistyped

Yeah sorry I’ve smashed my ankle up and my brains gone to mush

Would be interesting to see Faz n Ford swap clubs for a season. Ford's done sweet fa in club rugby but Faz gets grief for an armchair ride with Sarries. A playmaker 12 like Eastmond helps Ford as would a strong running threat like Teo but it should also be remembered that Faz is hampered by Brad who's a non entity in attack.

Indeed.

Eastmond has only just joined Tigers and even if his presence benefits Ford, he is hampered by a poor pack and Youngs at 9 who combine to serve up a pretty crappy platform.

Barritt is a non-entity in attack but at least Farrell receives the ball in space and on the front foot.

Comparing them for England is tough as both are equally hampered by Youngs’ delivery.

Farrell is a good goal kicker. No one denies that. He's had a fair few shite high profile misses though and his percentage is hardky spectacular these days. Wilkinson he is not.

All the the bold is quite incorrect.

He does but in the last U20 world cup Smith at 10 looked way better than Grayson.

Whoever thought Leicester would ever get to that state?

It's pretty astonishing isn't it. Makes more sense when you look at the forwards coach's CV though

https://www.leicestertigers.com/player/mark-bakewell


Doesn't exactly scream "the best in the business at producing rampaging packs"

I don't know about "way better" but he certainly showed up well and made his experience as an EJ aapprentice tell
Grayson certainly looking improved under Boyd's management

I thought Grayson was good, but when Smith was on he was another class. They are both young and Smith's relatively high number of top flight games could have meant he's better developed so far.

I agree. He smacks to me of someone who is well connected and good at networking rather than being excellent at their job.

Grayson Jr is and will be getting more game time this season, and looks better for it.

He's improved Tigers since joining. It's a tough gig as a coach when you can only work with what you have. Time will tell if he can build a top pack with Tigers resources.

Gone?!?

It's a fair point, Tigers aren't the go-to club for top forwards with international ambitions the way they used to be

Spot on. Unusually batshit comment form dragster.

But wait, how many European cups has ford won???!!!!111

Well worse than usual, i'm in pain and sleep deprived. On good form i'm no pub quiz champion

England v Japan

15 Elliot Daly (Wasps, 23 caps), 14 Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby, uncapped), 13 Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs, 28 caps), 12 Alex Lozowski (Saracens, 4 caps), 11 Chris Ashton (Sale Sharks, 41 caps), 10 George Ford (Leicester Tigers, 49 caps) captain, 9 Danny Care (Harlequins, 83 caps), 1 Alec Hepburn (Exeter Chiefs, 4 caps), 2 Jamie George (Saracens, 30 caps), 3 Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs, 13 caps), 4 Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby, 8 caps), 5 Maro Itoje (Saracens, 24 caps) vice-captain, 6 Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 66 caps), 7 Mark Wilson (Newcastle Falcons, 6 caps), 8 Zach Mercer (Bath Rugby, 1 cap).

Finishers
16 Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints, 95 caps), 17 Ben Moon (Exeter Chiefs, 2 caps), 18 Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins, 15 caps), 19 Ted Hill (Worcester Warriors, uncapped), 20 Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby, 7 caps), 21 Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens, 31 caps), 22 Owen Farrell (Saracens, 63 caps), 23 Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 15 caps).

Nowell at centre! Hill on the bench! Wigglesworth

He's certainly mixed it up

Shame that any success will be brushed off with "It was only Japan."

The rise and rise of Ted Hill continues

Anyone fancy making a match thread?

19 Ted Hill
20 Sam Underhill



Fun looking team

Fascinating midfield in that team

I really like the look of it.

Sadly, Raggs is right. If they go well, the caveat will be 'it was only Japan'. If it doesn't turn out to be a disaster, I'd love to see that 10 - 12 -13 for the Wallabies.

Me too

And yes, that is the caveat. But, it potentially opens the door to trying Nowell out in the midfield more frequently, and I really like that idea.

I can see, just, the theory of sticking a lock at 6 if it's a massive oppo or you're up against a huge lineout. But in this game?

Nowell at 13 is interesting

If the backline can get good ball ( *looks at Danny Care* ) it could be fun. Plenty of pace in there.

Yeah, if he's not going to get a go at fullback and fulfil a potential destiny of Brown mk II, then centre's the next best place for him long term.

Why? He's a good wing. He's not going to get a midfield spot.

Lawes at f**king blindside. Christ. I look forward to him bring blasted off the ball by a winger per the last 6N (France or Italy match).

He's not quick enough for wing and he's only going to get slower. Against the Saffas when he and May did their dance down the touchline there was a gap on the inside between two defenders which a May, Daly or Watson would have blown right through, Nowell cut back to the outside where there was less space, but where he probably had a better chance of busting a one on one tackle due to his skill set.

There will always be young wingers coming through with more pace than Nowell has. We don't really want another Usain Cueto situation do we? Lovely rugby player with a profound lack of gas for his position.

As for him getting a midfield spot - Slade is unconvincing, Tuilagi's perma-crocked, Jones doesn't seem to see Daly as a centre, Te'o's ok yet frequently injured and far from nailed on. His only real competition would be JJ if he comes back from injury in good form and Loz (who could potentially be a long awaited answer at 12).

Please someone tweet that to the RFU's team announcement!

Would have preferred 10. Ford. 12 Teo. 13. Lozowski

Mind you, he hasn't been there long and he's working with what he inherited, which was a very large number of decent forwards who would all make the squad of any other Premiership side, but few very good ones who would undoubtedly start anywhere else.

Under Cockerill and MOC we went for depth. Massive depth. Our third-choice props are internationals, for example. We have five hookers with regular Premiership experience. We coudl start with any two of five locks without a drop off in quality (though unlike Sarries, this is not as a result of needing to cover for players lost to internaitonal duty.

There is little to no drop off between our first choice and second choice pack. But that kind of depth usually results in a sacrifice in terms of quality. And that's what Bakewell has had to work with since he arrived.

Props:
Ellis Genge and Dan Cole
David Feao and Greg Bateman
Campese Ma'afu and Gaston Cortes
Facundo Gigena and Joe Heyes

(Note that Sarries somehow manage with just 5-6 props, even when losing Vunipola to internationals. Sale seem to manage with 4-5. Leicester seem to insist on a minimum of 8, with most of them full internationals. For some reason.)

Hookers: Tom Youngs, Tatafu Polota-Nau, Jake Kerr, Jimmy Stevens, Ross McMillan

Locks: Mike Williams, Will Spencer, Harry Wells, Graham Kitchener, Mike Fitzgerald.


Try picking a first choice tight 5 from that lot and you'd have almost as many different options as people you ask. And not one of those options would be a match for the Sarries or Exeter tight 5.

Tigers' rolling injurypocalypse probably has something to do with that policy