Page 1966 of 2808

Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:14 pm
by choc
happyhooker wrote:
choc wrote:
happyhooker wrote:Heinz did surprise me a little an Sunday, but I still feel there's a mistake been made there.

Slade's and curry's injuries obviously not that bad.

No real surprises
Ludlum in. No Shields. That’s a bit of a surprise isnt it?
Shields is broken, no??

(And, even as a wasps fan, I don't think he should be in the team)
I thought he was expected to be fit in time. He’s no real loss though. I don’t think he deserved it either.

Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:14 pm
by S Club
happyhooker wrote:
S Club wrote:Have we got any versatile loosehead/tighthead props?
You mean people who can switch sides??

No. Unless mog corrects me on this
Yes, that's what I meant.

Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:18 pm
by The Man Without Fear
I think the days of effective two for one props are long gone at Test level. The last properly effective player (for England, anyway) was Jason Leonard and he was a bit of a freak.

Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:20 pm
by Wendigo7
Happy with that.

No shields is pleasing. Teo and Brown pay for their indiscretion.

No Williams is the right call. He’s not a starter, he’s not better than Cole to the point where it’s obvious and Sinckler is the starter.

Good luck to McConnochie.

Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:21 pm
by fatcat
The official announcement video, with added photos of the players as kids!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yS55e7bFVKo

Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:24 pm
by S Club
The Man Without Fear wrote:I think the days of effective two for one props are long gone at Test level. The last properly effective player (for England, anyway) was Jason Leonard and he was a bit of a freak.
Matt Stevens was a bit more recent than that. Just would be reassuring to have a bit of extra cover ...

Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:28 pm
by Joost
S Club wrote:
The Man Without Fear wrote:I think the days of effective two for one props are long gone at Test level. The last properly effective player (for England, anyway) was Jason Leonard and he was a bit of a freak.
Matt Stevens was a bit more recent than that. Just would be reassuring to have a bit of extra cover ...
Stevens was useless at it though (as was Tim Payne). Surprisingly, Davey Wilson was actually pretty effective at both for England, on the occasions when he had to come on and play l/h.

Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:30 pm
by fatcat
Sefton wrote:
fatcat wrote:The official announcement video, with added photos of the players as kids!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yS55e7bFVKo
Just watched that, I'm becoming a right soppy git in my old age.
Meh, it's nothing compared to dog rescue videos.

Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:31 pm
by S Club
Joost wrote:
S Club wrote:
The Man Without Fear wrote:I think the days of effective two for one props are long gone at Test level. The last properly effective player (for England, anyway) was Jason Leonard and he was a bit of a freak.
Matt Stevens was a bit more recent than that. Just would be reassuring to have a bit of extra cover ...
Stevens was useless at it though (as was Tim Payne). Surprisingly, Davey Wilson was actually pretty effective at both for England, on the occasions when he had to come on and play l/h.
I forgot Dave Wilson. Actually, for a bloke who looked like the antithesis of the professional athlete, he was pretty decent.

Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:34 pm
by SamShark
What's the rules on injury replacements?

If a SH or TH go down with a minor injury do they have to leave the squad completely and go home if a replacement comes in?

Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:34 pm
by Nobleman
The Man Without Fear wrote:I think the days of effective two for one props are long gone at Test level. The last properly effective player (for England, anyway) was Jason Leonard and he was a bit of a freak.
Apparently Kieran Brookes in 2015 and Alex Corbisiero in 2011 could play both sides. Neal Hatley says that Joe Marler "had done a bit of work at tight-head" whatever that means.

Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:36 pm
by Hells Bells
The backrow balance is still off for me, 3 open sides and just 1 blindside/no.8.

Plus Wilson is the backup 8 and I’m presuming alongside being the first choice 6 so is he going to be playing all 4 group games? Because I’m guessing they’ll try and save Billy for France/Arg rather than risk him against Tonga/USA

Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:37 pm
by Petros
SamShark wrote:What's the rules on injury replacements?

If a SH or TH go down with a minor injury do they have to leave the squad completely and go home if a replacement comes in?
Something like that.

Daly may be the emergency SH, he had to do it for Wasps when they were down to 1 fit SH for ERC games

Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:37 pm
by happyhooker
Hells Bells wrote:The backrow balance is still off for me, 3 open sides and just 1 blindside/no.8.

Plus Wilson is the backup 8 and I’m presuming alongside being the first choice 6 so is he going to be playing all 4 group games? Because I’m guessing they’ll try and save Billy for France/Arg rather than risk him against Tonga/USA
I could see lawes covering a fair bit at 6

Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:38 pm
by Wendigo7
Hells Bells wrote:The backrow balance is still off for me, 3 open sides and just 1 blindside/no.8.

Plus Wilson is the backup 8 and I’m presuming alongside being the first choice 6 so is he going to be playing all 4 group games? Because I’m guessing they’ll try and save Billy for France/Arg rather than risk him against Tonga/USA
Reckon our starting 6 and 7 are double openside Curry and Wonderhill.

Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:38 pm
by happyhooker
Sefton wrote:
Hells Bells wrote:The backrow balance is still off for me, 3 open sides and just 1 blindside/no.8.

Plus Wilson is the backup 8 and I’m presuming alongside being the first choice 6 so is he going to be playing all 4 group games? Because I’m guessing they’ll try and save Billy for France/Arg rather than risk him against Tonga/USA
Lawes will get time at 6.
Typical scouser. Slow and always with prison at the back of his mind

Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:40 pm
by S Club
happyhooker wrote:
Hells Bells wrote:The backrow balance is still off for me, 3 open sides and just 1 blindside/no.8.

Plus Wilson is the backup 8 and I’m presuming alongside being the first choice 6 so is he going to be playing all 4 group games? Because I’m guessing they’ll try and save Billy for France/Arg rather than risk him against Tonga/USA
I could see lawes covering a fair bit at 6
Itoje also.

Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:41 pm
by Nobleman
Wendigo7 wrote:
Hells Bells wrote:The backrow balance is still off for me, 3 open sides and just 1 blindside/no.8.

Plus Wilson is the backup 8 and I’m presuming alongside being the first choice 6 so is he going to be playing all 4 group games? Because I’m guessing they’ll try and save Billy for France/Arg rather than risk him against Tonga/USA
Reckon our starting 6 and 7 are double openside Curry and Wonderhill.
It looks that way, with Lawes and Wilson on the bench.

Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:41 pm
by MaccTaff
Sorry to appear in your thread, and I daresay it’s been covered at length earlier on.

However, is Alex Goode really, really not an option at FB? At the very least he’s a very versatile back, who wouldn’t look out of place on the plane to Japan.

FB does seem to be a bit of a problem area, with Daly unconvincing and Watson coming back. I get you could say the same for Goode (unconvincing) in an England shirt but, you know, he could just “come right” for you.

I shall now depart.

Well done yesterday! :x

Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:41 pm
by Joost
Sefton wrote:
Hells Bells wrote:The backrow balance is still off for me, 3 open sides and just 1 blindside/no.8.

Plus Wilson is the backup 8 and I’m presuming alongside being the first choice 6 so is he going to be playing all 4 group games? Because I’m guessing they’ll try and save Billy for France/Arg rather than risk him against Tonga/USA
Lawes will get time at 6.
Underhill was originally down to start at 6 at the w/e, wasn’t he? Lack of lineout aside, I reckon he’d make a perfectly serviceable international 6.

Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:43 pm
by S Club
MaccTaff wrote:Sorry to appear in your thread, and I daresay it’s been covered at length earlier on.

However, is Alex Goode really, really not an option at FB? At the very least he’s a very versatile back, who wouldn’t look out of place on the plane to Japan.

FB does seem to be a bit of a problem area, with Daly unconvincing and Watson coming back. I get you could say the same for Goode (unconvincing) in an England shirt but, you know, he could just “come right” for you.

I shall now depart.

Well done yesterday! :x
Theoretically, he's the obvious choice. Unfortunately, he's always been meh at best at 15 for England.

Hasn't stopped Eddie picking Daly, mind.

Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:45 pm
by Joost
MaccTaff wrote:Sorry to appear in your thread, and I daresay it’s been covered at length earlier on.

However, is Alex Goode really, really not an option at FB? At the very least he’s a very versatile back, who wouldn’t look out of place on the plane to Japan.

FB does seem to be a bit of a problem area, with Daly unconvincing and Watson coming back. I get you could say the same for Goode (unconvincing) in an England shirt but, you know, he could just “come right” for you.

I shall now depart.

Well done yesterday! :x
Tbh, he’d make a better reserve 10 than Francis (and who knows, probably a better 12 than Francis!) and a better fullback than Daly, but that ship sailed long ago!

Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:45 pm
by Oxbow
Joost wrote:
Sefton wrote:
Hells Bells wrote:The backrow balance is still off for me, 3 open sides and just 1 blindside/no.8.

Plus Wilson is the backup 8 and I’m presuming alongside being the first choice 6 so is he going to be playing all 4 group games? Because I’m guessing they’ll try and save Billy for France/Arg rather than risk him against Tonga/USA
Lawes will get time at 6.
Underhill was originally down to start at 6 at the w/e, wasn’t he? Lack of lineout aside, I reckon he’d make a perfectly serviceable international 6.
He was down to start at 7, with Curry at 6. Curry then switched to 7 and Ludlam came in at 6.

Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:45 pm
by Raggs
Williams for Cole is a bit of a surprise. Otherwise no big shocks.

Mako
George
Sink
Itoje
Kruis
Wilson
Curry
Vunipola
Youngs
Ford
May
Manu
Slade
Coka
Watson

LCD, Genge, Cole, Launch, Underhill, Heinz, Farrell, Daly

Please.

Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:47 pm
by Madness
Seems a bit strange to only have 2 THs and 2 scrum halfs but 6 back 3. I'd have kept with 3 THs and lost Mcconnachie. Not quite sure what Ludlam offers over Robshaw.

Still this would be my 23

Mako
George
Sinks
Itoje
Kruis
Underhill
Curry
Billy
Youngs
Farrell
May
Manu
JJ
Daly
Watson

Genge, LCD, Cole, Lawes, Wilson, Heinz, Ford, Nowell/Cokanasinga

Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:50 pm
by RodneyRegis
eldanielfire wrote:
TopNacker wrote:Ford still cannot manage a game, as skipper he lost the plot in the second half. The best way to defend a lead is retain possession. He kicks it straight down the throat of the opposition. England must get away from the idiot mentality of relying on defence when they have a lead. Keep the buckin ball !

We must be better 5 yds out at either end of the pitch. We allow the opposition to convert frequently, but aren’t converting ourselves. Again, keep the ball in hand, attack with speed and leg pump. Be patient.

Ludlum and Genge did well.
EH? Most of England's 2nd half loses have been due to Farrell. With Ford it barely ever happened. In fact against Scotland this year Ford saved us.
Yeah, an incredible inference considering Farrell's capitulation in the 6n. Keep the ball indeed.

Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:53 pm
by blindcider
Madness wrote: Not quite sure what Ludlam offers over Robshaw.
Functional knees?

Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:56 pm
by elfieldinho
I could live with Daly at fullback if it made sense based on our strengths and weaknesses. Were we rock-solid in defence and struggling to score points then his attacking play from 15 - which is better than he's sometimes given credit for I think -might make sense.

As we score a lot of points, but have a poor, easily flustered defence in general and go absolutely to pieces for prolonged periods in most games, I'd have thought a hard and reliable full back essential.

He's slow and a total crowbar, but I think we miss Brown for more than just his tackling and high ball skills. We never look angry or aggressive enough when we're under the cosh. We blow teams away with our power on attack, but then when we give away penalties and they get deep in our half, we just seem to slowly and inevitably fold. A hard, angry fullback surely plays a part in instilling a tougher defensive mentality? Daly's positioning is a problem, he's weak under kicks, but he's also - by the standards of top international rugby players - a bit soft.

Eddie seems convinced teams will have to win ugly in low-scoring battles. I struggle to see how we do that with Daly at 15.

Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:57 pm
by RodneyRegis
Some baffling selections there. Does nobody think it's a bit of a farce that Eddie has had a full wc cylce to look at players and give them experience, and has picked 4 bolters?

Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:57 pm
by Joost
Oxbow wrote:
Joost wrote:
Sefton wrote:
Hells Bells wrote:The backrow balance is still off for me, 3 open sides and just 1 blindside/no.8.

Plus Wilson is the backup 8 and I’m presuming alongside being the first choice 6 so is he going to be playing all 4 group games? Because I’m guessing they’ll try and save Billy for France/Arg rather than risk him against Tonga/USA
Lawes will get time at 6.
Underhill was originally down to start at 6 at the w/e, wasn’t he? Lack of lineout aside, I reckon he’d make a perfectly serviceable international 6.
He was down to start at 7, with Curry at 6. Curry then switched to 7 and Ludlam came in at 6.
Ah yes, quite right. Still think Underhill makes the more natural 6 out of those two, though.

Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:59 pm
by Nobleman
Madness wrote:Seems a bit strange to only have 2 THs and 2 scrum halfs but 6 back 3. I'd have kept with 3 THs and lost Mcconnachie.
It is odd. I assumed that Rory Mc was in the original squad as cover for Nowell. Maybe if Nowell doesn't make it, they will bring in Harry Williams.

Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:03 pm
by Wendigo7
RodneyRegis wrote:Some baffling selections there. Does nobody think it's a bit of a farce that Eddie has had a full wc cylce to look at players and give them experience, and has picked 4 bolters?
Key experienced players got permacrocked or fell off a cliff.

Do what you can really.

Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:05 pm
by JM2K6
Wendigo7 wrote:
RodneyRegis wrote:Some baffling selections there. Does nobody think it's a bit of a farce that Eddie has had a full wc cylce to look at players and give them experience, and has picked 4 bolters?
Key experienced players got permacrocked or fell off a cliff.

Do what you can really.
Do me a favour :lol:

Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:05 pm
by JM2K6
MaccTaff wrote:Sorry to appear in your thread, and I daresay it’s been covered at length earlier on.

However, is Alex Goode really, really not an option at FB? At the very least he’s a very versatile back, who wouldn’t look out of place on the plane to Japan.

FB does seem to be a bit of a problem area, with Daly unconvincing and Watson coming back. I get you could say the same for Goode (unconvincing) in an England shirt but, you know, he could just “come right” for you.

I shall now depart.

Well done yesterday! :x
Goode has glaring weaknesses to his game that still get exposed at club level.

Anyway, mediocre squad, lots of time invested in players only for them to be binned at the last minute, too much faith in Super Rugby experience over actual talent and success, and a right mess in several key decision making positions.

Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:13 pm
by Madness
And the token robbed/injured/ignored/not going 23

Moon
Hartley
Williams
Ewels
Isiekwe
Shields
Curry
Hughes
Robson
Cips
Thorley
Teo
Marchant
Ashton
Goode

Barrington, Taylor, Brookes, Hill, Dombrandt, Spencer, Smith, Lozowski

and then even further down the pecking order 23

Rapava-Ruskin
Dunn
Painter
Slater
Stooke
Robshaw
Harrison
Morgan
Mitchell
Simmonds
Woodburn
Barritt
Tompkins
Roko
Woodward

Balmain, Cruise, Cooper Wooley, Beaumont, Rhodes, Care, Malins, Trinder

Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:15 pm
by Margin_Walker
Happy enough with the squad all things considered. Bit too heavy on bolters, but I don't think the players they are replacing would add too much to the party.

You can certainly make a decent 23 out of that lot, so it's over to them

That video is very well done too. Nice touch.

Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:16 pm
by tc27
Madness wrote:And the token robbed/injured/ignored/not going 23

Moon
Hartley
Williams
Ewels
Isiekwe
Shields
Curry
Hughes
Robson
Cips
Thorley
Teo
Marchant
Ashton
Goode

Barrington, Taylor, Brookes, Hill, Dombrandt, Spencer, Smith, Lozowski

and then even further down the pecking order 23

Rapava-Ruskin
Dunn
Painter
Slater
Stooke
Robshaw
Harrison
Morgan
Mitchell
Simmonds
Woodburn
Barritt
Tompkins
Roko
Woodward

Balmain, Cruise, Cooper Wooley, Beaumont, Rhodes, Care, Malins, Trinder
Pretty good depth to be fair.

Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:19 pm
by RodneyRegis
Wendigo7 wrote:
RodneyRegis wrote:Some baffling selections there. Does nobody think it's a bit of a farce that Eddie has had a full wc cylce to look at players and give them experience, and has picked 4 bolters?
Key experienced players got permacrocked or fell off a cliff.

Do what you can really.
Heinz for spencer/care?

Francis has been in or around the squad for 4 years and never trusted with a proper match. What on earth is he doing in the squad.

Hartley has been on the heap for yonks, how has singleton not been looked at? Same with mcconochie. Ludlum is not understandable, but surely robshaw's experience counts for more than his potential at this stage. For the last year we've heard that you don't pick new caps in the year leading up to a world cup...

Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:32 pm
by JM2K6
RodneyRegis wrote:
Wendigo7 wrote:
RodneyRegis wrote:Some baffling selections there. Does nobody think it's a bit of a farce that Eddie has had a full wc cylce to look at players and give them experience, and has picked 4 bolters?
Key experienced players got permacrocked or fell off a cliff.

Do what you can really.
Heinz for spencer/care?

Francis has been in or around the squad for 4 years and never trusted with a proper match. What on earth is he doing in the squad.

Hartley has been on the heap for yonks, how has singleton not been looked at? Same with mcconochie. Ludlum is not understandable, but surely robshaw's experience counts for more than his potential at this stage. For the last year we've heard that you don't pick new caps in the year leading up to a world cup...
You either go for Robshaw's experience - and let's face it, his decline amounted to 2 losses then a win when playing 6 - or you pick Mercer or Dombrandt or Hill or Ellis another player who's actually earned it. Ludlum is average as fudge, he did nothing during the season to earn it, and didn't show anything yesterday that suggested he was international class.

Robshaw's played for Eddie 23 times. We've lost 4 of those, and 2 of them he was having to play 7!

Brad Shields has played for Eddie 8 times, and we've won 3 of those matches. Great stuff.

Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:40 pm
by RodneyRegis
tc27 wrote:England’s official Rugby World Cup squad

Forwards
Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 86 caps) ** past it
Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 12 caps) can't throw
Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 11 caps) key
Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 10 caps) ok
Jamie George (Saracens, 37 caps) * key
Maro Itoje (Saracens, 27 caps) key
George Kruis (Saracens, 32 caps) * seems to be back
Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 59 caps) * key
Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 72 caps) ** excellent
Lewis Ludlam (Northampton Saints, 1 cap) no
Joe Marler (Harlequins, 58 caps) * key
Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins, 22 caps) key
Jack Singleton (Saracens, 1 cap) no
Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby, 9 caps) hope he stay fit
Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 42 caps) * superstar
Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 53 caps) * supersub
Mark Wilson (Newcastle Falcons / Sale Sharks, 13 caps) key

Backs
Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby, 5 caps) box office, glaring deficiencies
Elliot Daly (Saracens, 31 caps) out of poaition
Owen Farrell (Saracens, 70 caps) * will shit the bed, guaranteed
George Ford (Leicester Tigers, 56 caps) * class, will ride the pine
Piers Francis (Northampton Saints, 5 caps) fudge off
Willi Heinz (Gloucester Rugby, 1 cap) wtf
Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby, 41 caps) * a shadow of his former self
Jonny May (Leicester Tigers, 45 caps) * world class

Ruaridh McConnochie (Bath Rugby, uncapped) who?
Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs, 33 caps) * meh

Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 22 caps) * hope he can realise his potential

Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers, 33 caps) * can't leave him out
Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 34 caps) * hope he gets left on the wing
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 86 caps) ** fudge me.

* number of Rugby World Cup tournaments played