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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:07 pm 
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zzzz wrote:
p.s.

I think Heinz will struggle in proper Test rugby. Can't kick for shit.


It's supposed to be one of his strengths but I've seen him fuck it up enough times to know that he's not a banker.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:33 pm 
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JM2K6 wrote:
zzzz wrote:
p.s.

I think Heinz will struggle in proper Test rugby. Can't kick for shit.


It's supposed to be one of his strengths but I've seen him fuck it up enough times to know that he's not a banker.



I think he can set a decent tempo and hit his runners - but not a man for a mortar dropping excercise in a wet Dublin.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:20 pm 
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I bet Care is kicking his dog a fair distance .


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:21 pm 
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DragsterDriver wrote:
I bet Care is kicking his dog a fair distance .



Too far for a good chase or straight into touch?? :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:23 pm 
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I don’t know why boys don’t start up a ‘A Quims Who Was Robbed’ thread.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:26 pm 
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Probably because the Quins fans want Spencer in there.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:32 pm 
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Madness wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
I bet Care is kicking his dog a fair distance .



Too far for a good chase or straight into touch?? :lol:


Could mean Care is kicking Heinz's dog a fair distance


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:32 pm 
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JM2K6 wrote:
Probably because the Quins fans want Spencer in there.


They watch Care and are used to a 9 with a dodgy pass


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:34 pm 
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Ludlam deserves to be there, great debut from him and versatile enough to cover the entire back row

having only one recognised blindside isn't the end of the world when you consider Lawes, Itoje, Underhill etc can all step in there if needed

the biggest problem IMO is having only two recognised 9s - even in a best case scenario it probably means at least 10-20 minutes per game for Heinz (and starts vs USA and/or Tonga)


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:39 pm 
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Hard to decide what I would do if I was England coach.

I would have given Spencer a chance due to his form however there’s been many coaches in the past just due to not fancying them in training deciding they’ve seen enough etc.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:55 pm 
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piquant wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
Probably because the Quins fans want Spencer in there.


They watch Care and are used to a 9 with a dodgy pass


What does this even mean


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:55 pm 
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In light of the overstocked of wing department and the questions remaining around Joseph, Francis and Slade - testing the Tuilagi-Daly center combo might make some sense.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:58 pm 
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tc27 wrote:
England’s official Rugby World Cup squad

Forwards
Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 86 caps) **
Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 12 caps)
Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 11 caps)
Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 10 caps)
Jamie George (Saracens, 37 caps) *
Maro Itoje (Saracens, 27 caps)
George Kruis (Saracens, 32 caps) *
Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 59 caps) *
Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 72 caps) **
Lewis Ludlam (Northampton Saints, 1 cap)
Joe Marler (Harlequins, 58 caps) *
Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins, 22 caps)
Jack Singleton (Saracens, 1 cap)
Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby, 9 caps)
Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 42 caps) *
Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 53 caps) *
Mark Wilson (Newcastle Falcons / Sale Sharks, 13 caps)

Backs
Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby, 5 caps)
Elliot Daly (Saracens, 31 caps)
Owen Farrell (Saracens, 70 caps) *
George Ford (Leicester Tigers, 56 caps) *
Piers Francis (Northampton Saints, 5 caps)
Willi Heinz (Gloucester Rugby, 1 cap)
Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby, 41 caps) *
Jonny May (Leicester Tigers, 45 caps) *
Ruaridh McConnochie (Bath Rugby, uncapped)
Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs, 33 caps) *
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 22 caps) *
Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers, 33 caps) *
Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 34 caps) *
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 86 caps) **

* number of Rugby World Cup tournaments played


Apart from Joe Cocka I wouldn’t have taken any of those 5 or less cappers tbf, and would have taken proven if limited oldies like Care, Brown and Goode. Rwc isn’t the time to experiment !
Surprised by Cole but the rest seems on merit and I am ok with that.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:59 pm 
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openclashXX wrote:
Ludlam deserves to be there, great debut from him and versatile enough to cover the entire back row

having only one recognised blindside isn't the end of the world when you consider Lawes, Itoje, Underhill etc can all step in there if needed

the biggest problem IMO is having only two recognised 9s - even in a best case scenario it probably means at least 10-20 minutes per game for Heinz (and starts vs USA and/or Tonga)


I agree with all of that but am also concerned about just two TH props.

This is the first RWC with the current HIA regulations I think, so previous experience might be unreliable. If a SH or THP fails an HIA, and there is a six day break before the next fixture, we would be left with no specialist cover unless I have missed something?

We could probably substitute a player permanently so could easily finish up with Spencer and Heinz or Cole and Williams after the first Group fixture. Would you agree?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:32 pm 
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Marler has apparently been covering a bit at TH in training. I guess for an HIA, we give them the first 3 days, make sure it looks likely they'll be back, and if not, drop them. The other will go 80 rather than bring on Marler I suspect.

I'd guess if Cole get's even a week off, he'd be dropped for Williams anyway.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:47 pm 
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Humour me:

If a player goes down injured, is it call a player up and 48hrs before they can play?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:48 pm 
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Actually thought Cole looked in decent nick btw. Nothing dynamic but moved a bit and not a penalty machine.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:54 pm 
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Mate on Facebook said Ford is the third 9 and Marler the reserve tighthead.

Assuming May covers backrow.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:57 pm 
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DragsterDriver wrote:
Actually thought Cole looked in decent nick btw. Nothing dynamic but moved a bit and not a penalty machine.


Yes. Me too. And I remember him dropping on a ball for a turnover. Not a steal but aware and welcome.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:58 pm 
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DragsterDriver wrote:
Humour me:

If a player goes down injured, is it call a player up and 48hrs before they can play?


Believe so, so you can't leave it till the very last minute either.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:59 pm 
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DragsterDriver wrote:
Mate on Facebook said Ford is the third 9 and Marler the reserve tighthead.

Assuming May covers backrow.


The first two theories have already occurred to me - the Jonny May back row stuff not so much :twisted:


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:04 pm 
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nuffsaid wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Actually thought Cole looked in decent nick btw. Nothing dynamic but moved a bit and not a penalty machine.


Yes. Me too. And I remember him dropping on a ball for a turnover. Not a steal but aware and welcome.



Hypnosis from Eddie. “The ball’s a doughnut maaaaaate, think hungry hippos!”

Raggs wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Humour me:

If a player goes down injured, is it call a player up and 48hrs before they can play?


Believe so, so you can't leave it till the very last minute either.


Gives a reasonable bit of breathing space, it sounds a lot but it’s not a huge squad.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:04 pm 
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nuffsaid wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Mate on Facebook said Ford is the third 9 and Marler the reserve tighthead.

Assuming May covers backrow.


The first two theories have already occurred to me - the Jonny May back row stuff not so much :twisted:


Still makes me lol!


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:25 pm 
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Well I opened the thread pretty pleased with the squad. A couple of choices I'd have made differently, but nothing massive.

After reading the thread I am now ready to slit my wrists and have given up all hope. When did we all become so negative about everything?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:44 pm 
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tc27 wrote:
Madness wrote:
And the token robbed/injured/ignored/not going 23

Moon
Hartley
Williams
Ewels
Isiekwe
Shields
Curry
Hughes
Robson
Cips
Thorley
Teo
Marchant
Ashton
Goode

Barrington, Taylor, Brookes, Hill, Dombrandt, Spencer, Smith, Lozowski

and then even further down the pecking order 23

Rapava-Ruskin
Dunn
Painter
Slater
Stooke
Robshaw
Harrison
Morgan
Mitchell
Simmonds
Woodburn
Barritt
Tompkins
Roko
Woodward

Balmain, Cruise, Cooper Wooley, Beaumont, Rhodes, Care, Malins, Trinder


Pretty good depth to be fair.


Additional feel the depth 23

Hepburn
Thacker
Thomas
Attwood
Green
Ewers
Armand
Clifford
Chudley
Burns
Solomona
Devoto
O'Conor
Yarde
Mallinder

Obano, Yeandle, Hill, Kvesic, Mercer, Townsend, Sheedy, Eastmond, Brown

Starting to get a bit short of players now


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:59 pm 
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DragsterDriver wrote:
Mate on Facebook said Ford is the third 9 and Marler the reserve tighthead.


Both if which are f**king crackpot. If there are two positions on the pitch where you have to be a specialist, scrum half and tighthead are it (front row in general). You can't have someone fart about in a couple of training sessions and then chuck them in at Test level, even off the bench in extremis.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:03 pm 
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A5D5E5 wrote:
Well I opened the thread pretty pleased with the squad. A couple of choices I'd have made differently, but nothing massive.

After reading the thread I am now ready to slit my wrists and have given up all hope. When did we all become so negative about everything?

It's a psychological protection mechanism. Its the hope that kills you.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:04 pm 
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The Man Without Fear wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Mate on Facebook said Ford is the third 9 and Marler the reserve tighthead.


Both if which are f**king crackpot. If there are two positions on the pitch where you have to be a specialist, scrum half and tighthead are it (front row in general). You can't have someone fart about in a couple of training sessions and then chuck them in at Test level, even off the bench in extremis.



Is the gamble that the 3rd choice, Ford and Marler, could manage 20 mins or so in a group game and then a replacement is flown out. The only issue with that plan is that unless we fly Care out then the reserve scrum half will not be up to speed with international rugby and won't have played a competitive game for months.

So, worst case, Youngs goes down in first 5 mins of quarter final. Heinz on for rest of game, Youngs borderline for semi final. Do you thrown him out of squad and get a replacement over or rest him, start Heinz in a RWC semi and hope you dont need Ford??? If they do call someone up its going to be safe hands Wigglesworth.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:04 pm 
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Mad-Scientist wrote:
A5D5E5 wrote:
Well I opened the thread pretty pleased with the squad. A couple of choices I'd have made differently, but nothing massive.

After reading the thread I am now ready to slit my wrists and have given up all hope. When did we all become so negative about everything?

It's a psychological protection mechanism. Its the hope that kills you.


Perhaps in the UK. In the US it is frequently a gun.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:11 pm 
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Madness wrote:
The Man Without Fear wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Mate on Facebook said Ford is the third 9 and Marler the reserve tighthead.


Both if which are f**king crackpot. If there are two positions on the pitch where you have to be a specialist, scrum half and tighthead are it (front row in general). You can't have someone fart about in a couple of training sessions and then chuck them in at Test level, even off the bench in extremis.



Is the gamble that the 3rd choice, Ford and Marler, could manage 20 mins or so in a group game and then a replacement is flown out. The only issue with that plan is that unless we fly Care out then the reserve scrum half will not be up to speed with international rugby and won't have played a competitive game for months.

So, worst case, Youngs goes down in first 5 mins of quarter final. Heinz on for rest of game, Youngs borderline for semi final. Do you thrown him out of squad and get a replacement over or rest him, start Heinz in a RWC semi and hope you dont need Ford??? If they do call someone up its going to be safe hands Wigglesworth.


No you replace one of the “not going to play in knock out stages” bolters for Care. Plan has to be to wing it during group stages and then just make sure you have 25-26 fit core squad for the quarters on. The rest won’t matter.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:13 pm 
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from the Independent, buried in the last line of their squad announcement article:

Quote:
Jones also confirmed that, in agreement with the Premiership clubs, he will be allowed to call-up additional players over the remaining warm-up matches only in the event of injury, and given the issues currently on his hands he will add lock Charlie Ewels, flanker Matt Kvesic and centre Joe Marchant for Saturday’s return fixture with Wales.


https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rug ... 54931.html


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:12 pm 
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The Man Without Fear wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Mate on Facebook said Ford is the third 9 and Marler the reserve tighthead.


Both if which are f**king crackpot. If there are two positions on the pitch where you have to be a specialist, scrum half and tighthead are it (front row in general). You can't have someone fart about in a couple of training sessions and then chuck them in at Test level, even off the bench in extremis.

Nonsense.

Other countries swap looseheads to tighthead all the time. It's typically regimented English thinking to think you always need a perfectly round peg in a round hole. Marler would be fine coming off the bench at TH.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:54 am 
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nuffsaid wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Actually thought Cole looked in decent nick btw. Nothing dynamic but moved a bit and not a penalty machine.


Yes. Me too. And I remember him dropping on a ball for a turnover. Not a steal but aware and welcome.


Stripped the ball off Liam Williams too


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:37 am 
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Next weekend : rest Bill and Daly. Watson to full back, May on wing. Wilson to 8. Keep Manu on the bench. Start with Kruis, Lawes, Sinckler. Stick with Ford, Heinz and Ludlam. Underhill in for Curry, or if not fit I guess it’s Itoje unless we can draft Dombrandt back in. Bill needs a rest though.

Concerned that the named squad is already carrying injuries to Curry, Underhill, Nowell and Mako prolly isn’t match fit.

Let’s hope the next ref picks up on the barrage of Welsh no arms tackles, particularly from Moriarty.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:32 am 
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Madness wrote:
Seems a bit strange to only have 2 THs and 2 scrum halfs but 6 back 3. I'd have kept with 3 THs and lost Mcconnachie. Not quite sure what Ludlam offers over Robshaw.

Still this would be my 23

Mako
George
Sinks
Itoje
Kruis
Underhill
Curry
Billy
Youngs
Farrell
May
Manu
JJ
Daly
Watson

Genge, LCD, Cole, Lawes, Wilson, Heinz, Ford, Nowell/Cokanasinga
That'll do, pig


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:44 am 
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A5D5E5 wrote:
Well I opened the thread pretty pleased with the squad. A couple of choices I'd have made differently, but nothing massive.

After reading the thread I am now ready to slit my wrists and have given up all hope. When did we all become so negative about everything?

Totally agree I'm pretty happy with it and we're as good a chance as any of winning it. :lol:

Little did I know....


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:45 am 
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TopNacker wrote:
Next weekend : rest Bill and Daly. Watson to full back, May on wing. Wilson to 8. Keep Manu on the bench. Start with Kruis, Lawes, Sinckler. Stick with Ford, Heinz and Ludlam. Underhill in for Curry, or if not fit I guess it’s Itoje unless we can draft Dombrandt back in. Bill needs a rest though.

Concerned that the named squad is already carrying injuries to Curry, Underhill, Nowell and Mako prolly isn’t match fit.

Let’s hope the next ref picks up on the barrage of Welsh no arms tackles, particularly from Moriarty.

Yes good call.

I think he'll go Farrell at 10 to give them both game time, but giving the spine at 8, 9 and 10 a chance to play together would be useful.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:01 am 
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openclashXX wrote:
Ludlam deserves to be there, great debut from him and versatile enough to cover the entire back row

having only one recognised blindside isn't the end of the world when you consider Lawes, Itoje, Underhill etc can all step in there if needed

the biggest problem IMO is having only two recognised 9s - even in a best case scenario it probably means at least 10-20 minutes per game for Heinz (and starts vs USA and/or Tonga)


Surely a bigger problem is not taking a 15 and a single no. 8 made of papiermache?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:13 am 
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openclashXX wrote:
from the Independent, buried in the last line of their squad announcement article:

Quote:
Jones also confirmed that, in agreement with the Premiership clubs, he will be allowed to call-up additional players over the remaining warm-up matches only in the event of injury, and given the issues currently on his hands he will add lock Charlie Ewels, flanker Matt Kvesic and centre Joe Marchant for Saturday’s return fixture with Wales.


https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rug ... 54931.html


Interesting call ... I can see the logic for Kvesic as a like-for-like cover for Curry/Underhill, but it’s an odd one considering he’s shown no interest in him before now.

I would have thought Ben Curry would have made more sense.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:18 am 
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Scrumhead wrote:
openclashXX wrote:
from the Independent, buried in the last line of their squad announcement article:

Quote:
Jones also confirmed that, in agreement with the Premiership clubs, he will be allowed to call-up additional players over the remaining warm-up matches only in the event of injury, and given the issues currently on his hands he will add lock Charlie Ewels, flanker Matt Kvesic and centre Joe Marchant for Saturday’s return fixture with Wales.


https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rug ... 54931.html


Interesting call ... I can see the logic for Kvesic as a like-for-like cover for Curry/Underhill, but it’s an odd one considering he’s shown no interest in him before now.

I would have thought Ben Curry would have made more sense.


I have a feeling Kvesic might be picked more as Number 8 cover rather than one specifically for the flanks

Even with Curry and Underhill injured they could still move Ludlam or Wilson over to openside and one of the locks into blindside, but if the plan is to rest Billy then their cover at 8 is more stretched (only Wilson is a viable option)

Strange one though I agree, for him to have leapfrogged people like Mercer, Dombrandt, Ted Hill etc given how little attention Jones has given him in the past 4 years


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