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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:44 pm 
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A5D5E5 wrote:
Raggs wrote:
I don't think there's many that would argue that NZ aren't favourites. However I'd expect us to give them a much better game than the Irish. Not because I think we're a million miles better than the Irish on average, but that was a dire display from them at the weekend. It was like the past 4 years of rigid structure in attack and defence had just got thrown out the window, and none of them had got past page 3 in the new 300 hundred page playbook.


I think England have a game which Ireland don't - the number of powerful carriers and the power of the pack in general will cause NZ far more problems than Ireland could.

It doesn't mean England will win, but I expect they will be able to give NZ a better game and a win is by no means impossible.


Healy/Kilcoyne, Cronin, Furlong, Ryan, Henderson, Ruddock, Stander. I'm no expert on Irish rugby, but they have some bloody good carriers in their pack. Would I trade them all for ours? Probably not, but they've got a damn good pack. The game just reminded me of Lancasters world cup. Forwards looked under powered, everyone looked a bit confused as to what they were supposed to be doing, as it seemed like we suddenly had a new gameplan, after throwing away a pretty good one from before as a bit of a panic move.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:16 pm 
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Just caught up with the Wasps Irish game. Jack Willis was ridiculous - something like eight turnovers, including three in a row in the final five minutes when Irish had three goes at running the clock down. He was utterly dominant.

Wasps still lost, mind.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:35 pm 
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jabberwocky wrote:
Just caught up with the Wasps Irish game. Jack Willis was ridiculous - something like eight turnovers, including three in a row in the final five minutes when Irish had three goes at running the clock down. He was utterly dominant.

Wasps still lost, mind.


Incredible performance. Makes Wasps losing even more worrying what that amount of turnover possession.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:39 pm 
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Aren't Irish on paper a good side who've spent a fair bit this season?

These gaps without the internationals will really benefit them.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:48 pm 
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Wendigo7 wrote:
Aren't Irish on paper a good side who've spent a fair bit this season?

These gaps without the internationals will really benefit them.


Nah, we're missing tons of players at the RWC and as late joiners. Not many teams will be missing more so it's important to pick up points early doors whilst weakened. Rode our luck a bit, but got the job done.

Willis was awesome


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:53 pm 
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Wasps are missing a fair few through injury already and the likes of Sopoaga and Feikitoa were playing their first games of the season.

Still, at home, it's a game you feel we ought to be winning; particularly with Willis putting in that kind of a performance. I don't have much hope for this season. Top 6 at best.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:47 pm 
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Raggs wrote:
A5D5E5 wrote:
Raggs wrote:
I don't think there's many that would argue that NZ aren't favourites. However I'd expect us to give them a much better game than the Irish. Not because I think we're a million miles better than the Irish on average, but that was a dire display from them at the weekend. It was like the past 4 years of rigid structure in attack and defence had just got thrown out the window, and none of them had got past page 3 in the new 300 hundred page playbook.


I think England have a game which Ireland don't - the number of powerful carriers and the power of the pack in general will cause NZ far more problems than Ireland could.

It doesn't mean England will win, but I expect they will be able to give NZ a better game and a win is by no means impossible.


Healy/Kilcoyne, Cronin, Furlong, Ryan, Henderson, Ruddock, Stander. I'm no expert on Irish rugby, but they have some bloody good carriers in their pack. Would I trade them all for ours? Probably not, but they've got a damn good pack. The game just reminded me of Lancasters world cup. Forwards looked under powered, everyone looked a bit confused as to what they were supposed to be doing, as it seemed like we suddenly had a new gameplan, after throwing away a pretty good one from before as a bit of a panic move.


Maybe last year they had some decent carriers. This year for whatever reason, they haven't been carrying with anything like the power that England's carriers bring and as you say, their pack collectively looks very much like the 2015 England vintage - lacking power and cohesion.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:54 pm 
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Any concerns about the form of Billy Vunipola or Slade or the defence of Daly?












Thought not.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:56 pm 
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Welsh out.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:59 pm 
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henry wrote:
Any concerns about the form of Billy Vunipola or Slade or the defence of Daly?












Thought not.


Yes. Strange post.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:12 pm 
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A5D5E5 wrote:
Raggs wrote:
A5D5E5 wrote:
Raggs wrote:
I don't think there's many that would argue that NZ aren't favourites. However I'd expect us to give them a much better game than the Irish. Not because I think we're a million miles better than the Irish on average, but that was a dire display from them at the weekend. It was like the past 4 years of rigid structure in attack and defence had just got thrown out the window, and none of them had got past page 3 in the new 300 hundred page playbook.


I think England have a game which Ireland don't - the number of powerful carriers and the power of the pack in general will cause NZ far more problems than Ireland could.

It doesn't mean England will win, but I expect they will be able to give NZ a better game and a win is by no means impossible.


Healy/Kilcoyne, Cronin, Furlong, Ryan, Henderson, Ruddock, Stander. I'm no expert on Irish rugby, but they have some bloody good carriers in their pack. Would I trade them all for ours? Probably not, but they've got a damn good pack. The game just reminded me of Lancasters world cup. Forwards looked under powered, everyone looked a bit confused as to what they were supposed to be doing, as it seemed like we suddenly had a new gameplan, after throwing away a pretty good one from before as a bit of a panic move.


Maybe last year they had some decent carriers. This year for whatever reason, they haven't been carrying with anything like the power that England's carriers bring and as you say, their pack collectively looks very much like the 2015 England vintage - lacking power and cohesion.


Lacking power. It's rather simplistic, but it's a bit 2015 under Farrell, isn't it?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:18 pm 
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A5D5E5 wrote:
Raggs wrote:
A5D5E5 wrote:
Raggs wrote:
I don't think there's many that would argue that NZ aren't favourites. However I'd expect us to give them a much better game than the Irish. Not because I think we're a million miles better than the Irish on average, but that was a dire display from them at the weekend. It was like the past 4 years of rigid structure in attack and defence had just got thrown out the window, and none of them had got past page 3 in the new 300 hundred page playbook.


I think England have a game which Ireland don't - the number of powerful carriers and the power of the pack in general will cause NZ far more problems than Ireland could.

It doesn't mean England will win, but I expect they will be able to give NZ a better game and a win is by no means impossible.


Healy/Kilcoyne, Cronin, Furlong, Ryan, Henderson, Ruddock, Stander. I'm no expert on Irish rugby, but they have some bloody good carriers in their pack. Would I trade them all for ours? Probably not, but they've got a damn good pack. The game just reminded me of Lancasters world cup. Forwards looked under powered, everyone looked a bit confused as to what they were supposed to be doing, as it seemed like we suddenly had a new gameplan, after throwing away a pretty good one from before as a bit of a panic move.


Maybe last year they had some decent carriers. This year for whatever reason, they haven't been carrying with anything like the power that England's carriers bring and as you say, their pack collectively looks very much like the 2015 England vintage - lacking power and cohesion.


Ireland don't have a good pack. Furlong is decent but that's it, back row is shite. Ryan would maybe make our squad.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:18 pm 
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henry wrote:
Any concerns about the form of Billy Vunipola or Slade or the defence of Daly?



Thought not.


Besides the ones we've all voiced since the warm ups (or even longer ago in Daly's case)?


Wendigo7 wrote:
Welsh out.


Doesn't exactly rid us of henry does it?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:19 pm 
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jabberwocky wrote:
A5D5E5 wrote:
Raggs wrote:
A5D5E5 wrote:
Raggs wrote:
I don't think there's many that would argue that NZ aren't favourites. However I'd expect us to give them a much better game than the Irish. Not because I think we're a million miles better than the Irish on average, but that was a dire display from them at the weekend. It was like the past 4 years of rigid structure in attack and defence had just got thrown out the window, and none of them had got past page 3 in the new 300 hundred page playbook.


I think England have a game which Ireland don't - the number of powerful carriers and the power of the pack in general will cause NZ far more problems than Ireland could.

It doesn't mean England will win, but I expect they will be able to give NZ a better game and a win is by no means impossible.


Healy/Kilcoyne, Cronin, Furlong, Ryan, Henderson, Ruddock, Stander. I'm no expert on Irish rugby, but they have some bloody good carriers in their pack. Would I trade them all for ours? Probably not, but they've got a damn good pack. The game just reminded me of Lancasters world cup. Forwards looked under powered, everyone looked a bit confused as to what they were supposed to be doing, as it seemed like we suddenly had a new gameplan, after throwing away a pretty good one from before as a bit of a panic move.


Maybe last year they had some decent carriers. This year for whatever reason, they haven't been carrying with anything like the power that England's carriers bring and as you say, their pack collectively looks very much like the 2015 England vintage - lacking power and cohesion.


Lacking power. It's rather simplistic, but it's a bit 2015 under Farrell, isn't it?


:thumbup:


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:21 pm 
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jabberwocky wrote:
A5D5E5 wrote:
Raggs wrote:
A5D5E5 wrote:
Raggs wrote:
I don't think there's many that would argue that NZ aren't favourites. However I'd expect us to give them a much better game than the Irish. Not because I think we're a million miles better than the Irish on average, but that was a dire display from them at the weekend. It was like the past 4 years of rigid structure in attack and defence had just got thrown out the window, and none of them had got past page 3 in the new 300 hundred page playbook.


I think England have a game which Ireland don't - the number of powerful carriers and the power of the pack in general will cause NZ far more problems than Ireland could.

It doesn't mean England will win, but I expect they will be able to give NZ a better game and a win is by no means impossible.


Healy/Kilcoyne, Cronin, Furlong, Ryan, Henderson, Ruddock, Stander. I'm no expert on Irish rugby, but they have some bloody good carriers in their pack. Would I trade them all for ours? Probably not, but they've got a damn good pack. The game just reminded me of Lancasters world cup. Forwards looked under powered, everyone looked a bit confused as to what they were supposed to be doing, as it seemed like we suddenly had a new gameplan, after throwing away a pretty good one from before as a bit of a panic move.


Maybe last year they had some decent carriers. This year for whatever reason, they haven't been carrying with anything like the power that England's carriers bring and as you say, their pack collectively looks very much like the 2015 England vintage - lacking power and cohesion.


Lacking power. It's rather simplistic, but it's a bit 2015 under Farrell, isn't it?


If you mean shit then yes. Lancaster, Farrell and now Rowntree over there cocking it all up. Priceless.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:54 pm 
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henry wrote:
Any concerns about the form of Billy Vunipola or Slade or the defence of Daly?












Thought not.


How about you piss off too


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:32 am 
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Well, that went well

What does the team think about the appt of O'Wens for the game?

Kiwis on the match fred appear to think it favours them but it seems to me that he likes a bit of contest at ruck time and that our back row would like that


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:45 am 
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ManInTheBar wrote:
Well, that went well

What does the team think about the appt of O'Wens for the game?

Kiwis on the match fred appear to think it favours them but it seems to me that he likes a bit of contest at ruck time and that our back row would like that

Google searches for ‘how can I make a world cup semi final between the two top ranked teams in the world all about me’ and ‘amazing witty one liners for ITV’ have reached an all time high.

Also remember him reffing Sarries in the HEC semis against Munster and having horrid flashbacks


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:47 am 
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A shame we couldn't have somebody serious.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:49 am 
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Owens could work for us. He likes dramatic games, and if there's a chance to help a close game stay close till the finish, he'll do it.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:02 am 
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‘No foul play, play on’


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:34 am 
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ManInTheBar wrote:
Well, that went well

What does the team think about the appt of O'Wens for the game?

Kiwis on the match fred appear to think it favours them but it seems to me that he likes a bit of contest at ruck time and that our back row would like that


I've never seen him have a bad game for NZ.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:31 am 
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I hope whatevers making Billy play averagely suddenly flicks off..


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:46 am 
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4071 wrote:
ManInTheBar wrote:
Well, that went well

What does the team think about the appt of O'Wens for the game?

Kiwis on the match fred appear to think it favours them but it seems to me that he likes a bit of contest at ruck time and that our back row would like that


I've never seen him have a bad game for NZ.

We’ve also had him in the tournament already against the USA and adapted well to him.

He adds to the occasion for me. (We used to not do well with him etc)


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:55 am 
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Wendigo7 wrote:
4071 wrote:
ManInTheBar wrote:
Well, that went well

What does the team think about the appt of O'Wens for the game?

Kiwis on the match fred appear to think it favours them but it seems to me that he likes a bit of contest at ruck time and that our back row would like that


I've never seen him have a bad game for NZ.

We’ve also had him in the tournament already against the USA and adapted well to him.

He adds to the occasion for me. (We used to not do well with him etc)



We must have more exposure to him at test, Pro14 and European level. But he is a weird one, he can be very good, but you do have to adapt to him on the fly


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:50 am 
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sockwithaticket wrote:
Wasps are missing a fair few through injury already and the likes of Sopoaga and Feikitoa were playing their first games of the season.

Still, at home, it's a game you feel we ought to be winning; particularly with Willis putting in that kind of a performance. I don't have much hope for this season. Top 6 at best.


when JPDoyle and his team refused to even look at what was a clear cut penalty try, leaping one handed knock on to stop Kilbridge getting his hat-trick it was clearly not Wasps'd day

Willis was amazing after virtually a whole season out


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:53 am 
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Willis was amazing partly due to JP having not even a tenth of a clue at the breakdown, so swings and roundabouts.

If he can add some really impactful driving tackles to his game, Willis will push the current duo very hard for England selection.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:32 pm 
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tc27 wrote:
I hope whatevers making Billy play averagely suddenly flicks off..


I honestly don't think he's playing averagely. I think teams are terrified of him, and hitting him with 2 and 3 guys every time he gets the ball. That fear of Billy is exactly what lead to the Sinkler try. I don't mind him not getting big rampaging runs if it means there's 2 less defenders, or big holes, for the rest of the attack to worry about.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:34 pm 
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Raggs wrote:
tc27 wrote:
I hope whatevers making Billy play averagely suddenly flicks off..


I honestly don't think he's playing averagely. I think teams are terrified of him, and hitting him with 2 and 3 guys every time he gets the ball. That fear of Billy is exactly what lead to the Sinkler try. I don't mind him not getting big rampaging runs if it means there's 2 less defenders, or big holes, for the rest of the attack to worry about.

I need a chart or a graph to believe this


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:41 pm 
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happyhooker wrote:
Raggs wrote:
tc27 wrote:
I hope whatevers making Billy play averagely suddenly flicks off..


I honestly don't think he's playing averagely. I think teams are terrified of him, and hitting him with 2 and 3 guys every time he gets the ball. That fear of Billy is exactly what lead to the Sinkler try. I don't mind him not getting big rampaging runs if it means there's 2 less defenders, or big holes, for the rest of the attack to worry about.

I need a chart or a graph to believe this


:lol: Just watching the Aus game again, and Manu made a powerful run through 1 defender because the 2nd saw Billy was on his shoulder and hit Billy instead (not enough for a tackle off the ball, but lined him up etc). Billy scares defences big time.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:51 pm 
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Again, that's nothing new. Billy has been marked like that for most of his career. He's not busting tackles, not offloading much, and he's giving away turnovers and penalties.

Of course his presence makes defences think hard but that's separate to how well he's actually playing.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:55 pm 
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https://www.thedeadballarea.com/the-ana ... 2019-pt-2/


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:57 pm 
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JM2K6 wrote:
Willis was amazing partly due to JP having not even a tenth of a clue at the breakdown, so swings and roundabouts.

If he can add some really impactful driving tackles to his game, Willis will push the current duo very hard for England selection.


I agree. As good as he was, he definitely wasn’t supporting his own body weight for a couple of the turnovers, but fair play to him - it the refs not pinging you, why would you stop?

I think he already has the impactful tackles. He made one huge hit at the weekend and I’ve seen him make plenty on the past.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:05 pm 
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I would like it noted that I have taken one for the team here.

Saturday morning is my seven year old sons's birthday party and when booking this date and time I was aware of the potential fixture clash and decided that only if I allowed sod's law to play out would England make the semis.

So there it is. Our biggest game for over a decade and I am going to be holding a pinata at arms length while being clobbered with sticks.

Fuckety-cunting-arse-balls. :x


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:11 pm 
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Gospel wrote:
I would like it noted that I have taken one for the team here.

Saturday morning is my seven year old sons's birthday party and when booking this date and time I was aware of the potential fixture clash and decided that only if I allowed sod's law to play out would England make the semis.

So there it is. Our biggest game for over a decade and I am going to be holding a pinata at arms length while being clobbered with sticks.

Fuckety-cunting-arse-balls. :x


So if we lose its your fault for not having the party on the day of the final.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:12 pm 
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That was silly!


Watched the club highlights just now. Ted Hill is ridiculous - just battering through people at pace to score, then later on Guy Thompson picks and goes off a scrum and Ted just picks him up off his feet with zero effort. Add that to Willis' display, Dombrandt's magic offload for a Quins try, and our other options and we've got a pile of backrowers who are a lot of fun to watch.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:17 pm 
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tc27 wrote:
Gospel wrote:
I would like it noted that I have taken one for the team here.

Saturday morning is my seven year old sons's birthday party and when booking this date and time I was aware of the potential fixture clash and decided that only if I allowed sod's law to play out would England make the semis.

So there it is. Our biggest game for over a decade and I am going to be holding a pinata at arms length while being clobbered with sticks.

Fuckety-cunting-arse-balls. :x


So if we lose its your fault for not having the party on the day of the final.


Good man Gospel, and still plenty of time to arrange one for the following SUNDAY


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:18 pm 
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I'd temporarily forgotten about Ted Hill...

So that's Underhill, Curry, Willis, Hill and Dombrandt. Billy is only 26 too.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:19 pm 
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My daughter has ice skating at 10am, and there's zero mobile reception at the rink. I'm not happy :lol:


I can't even get out of it, as I've not been with her for a couple of weeks as I've been busy


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:34 pm 
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Raggs wrote:
I'd temporarily forgotten about Ted Hill...

So that's Underhill, Curry, Willis, Hill and Dombrandt. Billy is only 26 too.



And Curry. Though until some of them perform on consistent basis at test level they could simply be the next Nathan Hughes or Nick Easter.

I also wonder whether some of them are at the right club(s) if they want to play for England


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