Chat Forum
It is currently Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:06 pm

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23900 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 591, 592, 593, 594, 595, 596, 597, 598  Next

Whos Going to Lead the Labor Rabble
Albo 44%  44%  [ 4 ]
Plibbers 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Bowen 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Chalmers 33%  33%  [ 3 ]
Uncle Tony 11%  11%  [ 1 ]
Clive Palmer 11%  11%  [ 1 ]
George Smith 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 9
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 2:19 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 7:02 am
Posts: 3614
Talent has got fark all to do with anything, apparently.


What seems to matter is, above all, an ability to speak simply and clearly. Image is everything, policy is just an afterthought.


A lot will depend on how the incoming Opposition Leader performs under pressure. There will be a lot of it.


Once upon a time we used to believe that Oppositions do not win elections, Governments lose them. This Government deserved to lose by just about any measure, on their performance. But they didn't. So obviously things would have to get incredibly bad from an economic perspective for the ALP to get back in.


Or they are going to have to be led by another great media performer. That is not Albo, it is Chalmers. Plus of course he would have a stand-up start over Scummo in Queensland, and that is where the next election will be won.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 3:03 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 24813
Location: Queensland
Caley_Red wrote:
Ali's Choice wrote:
It's become clear that the ALP's policy agenda was far too big for the Australian people. Life is pretty good for most people in this country and the ALP misread the mood for change. Instead of proposing sweeping changes across a range of areas, they should have concentrated on just one or two priorities. Similar to what Rudd did in 20017. For example, if they had run just on climate change, and introducing the NEG, I think they would have won office. There was a mood for real action on climate change. But this sentiment was diluted by concerns about changes to negative gearing, franking credits, superannuation etc which played into concerns about the ALP's spending and allowed Morrison to run the mother of all scare campaigns. This meant that lots of people who want real action on climate change ended up voting against the the ALP.

I want Albanese to become leader, and with the right policy agenda he can win govt in three years. Morrison is a skilled politican and orator, but so too is Albo. This govt lacks talent, lacks a mandate to do anything significant and is still outdated and divided.


I find it odd that your choice of words reflects the idea that Australians were too small minded for such a 'bold and radical' vision. The words I would have used is that the policy proposal was far too disruptive, punitive and un-costed for people to trust.


Dumb post. I never mentioned anything about people being "small minded". That's you projecting on my comment. Clearly the ALP's suite of policies was too big, and the Australian electorate wasn't in the mood for that degree of change.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 3:05 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 24813
Location: Queensland
Clogs wrote:
Ali's Choice wrote:
Clogs wrote:
Ali's Choice wrote:
It's become clear that the ALP's policy agenda was far too big for the Australian people. Life is pretty good for most people in this country and the ALP misread the mood for change. Instead of proposing sweeping changes across a range of areas, they should have concentrated on just one or two priorities. Similar to what Rudd did in 20017. For example, if they had run just on climate change, and introducing the NEG, I think they would have won office. There was a mood for real action on climate change. But this sentiment was diluted by concerns about changes to negative gearing, franking credits, superannuation etc which played into concerns about the ALP's spending and allowed Morrison to run the mother of all scare campaigns. This meant that lots of people who want real action on climate change ended up voting against the the ALP.

I want Albanese to become leader, and with the right policy agenda he can win govt in three years. Morrison is a skilled politican and orator, but so too is Albo. This govt lacks talent, lacks a mandate to do anything significant and is still outdated and divided.



Interesting to read your claim that this government lacks talent. Even more remarkable when the opposition lost the un-loseable election. Not just lost but got hammered. I will never forget this excerpt from a recent exchange on national television:


Happy to create a head-to-head with the ALP and Coalition front benches to compare talent. It's obviously very subjective, and I have no doubt you personally believe that Michaela Cash and Melissa Price are more talented than Tanya Plibersek and Penny Wong.

The fact that the Coalition's entire campaign was based around one person, with no ministers bar Frydenberg featuring, suggests that they lack talent. The ALP just need to do a better job of taking advantage of this.

Moreover, talent doesn't always equate to the outcome. I think the Crusaders are more talented than the Waratahs, but we lost to them in Sydney this year.




So the entire chock full of talent ALP could not beat Scomo on his own in the polls? An entire team of hugely talented ALP politicians could not defeat single handed Scomo? All that talent vs 1 person and they still lost the un-loseable election? You understand that is what you are saying don't you?


Also Scomo really is the Richie McCaw of Australian politics.


To be fair it was Scott Morrison. Plus Josh Frydenberg. Plus $60 million of UAP's anti-Labor ads. Plus the full weight of the Murdoch news empire (80% of the nations newspapers and news sites). Given these facts I'm surprised that the ALP retained as many seats as they did.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 4:08 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:45 am
Posts: 2324
Come on. Labor is never going to improve its fortunes if the best it can do is blame others for its loss.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 4:47 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 3639
Location: STRAYA CUNT!!!
I'm a bit disappointed the Labor leadership race appears to be down to Anthony Albanese and Chris Bowen. Much like Shorten I cannot see either man being particularly popular among the electorate which unfortunately matters more than policy from my conversation with quite a number of people since Saturday. I'm also really disappointed that Tanya Pilbersek has withdrawn or that Penny Wong never came into the discussions. Both would be significantly more popular with the electorate than the two likely options.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 4:49 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:45 am
Posts: 2324
Working Class Rugger wrote:
I'm a bit disappointed the Labor leadership race appears to be down to Anthony Albanese and Chris Bowen. Much like Shorten I cannot see either man being particularly popular among the electorate which unfortunately matters more than policy from my conversation with quite a number of people since Saturday. I'm also really disappointed that Tanya Pilbersek has withdrawn or that Penny Wong never came into the discussions. Both would be significantly more popular with the electorate than the two likely options.


They really need some "new blood". Can't help but feel Albo or especially Bowen are just Shorten Mk 2.0.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 4:52 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 6028
Albanese is Labor left and Bowens Labor right but really is there a big difference?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 4:58 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 31875
Location: in transit
Working Class Rugger wrote:
I'm also really disappointed that Tanya Pilbersek has withdrawn or that Penny Wong never came into the discussions. Both would be significantly more popular with the electorate than the two likely options.


Plibersek opted out for her kids' sake. No issue there, good on her.

I'm interested in your theory that an electorate that just voted overwhelmingly for a Pentecostal happyclapper running on a zero policy platform would somehow be won over by an Asian Lesbian. By all means, pour me a glass of whatever it is and sign me up for regular delivery.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 5:07 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:45 am
Posts: 2324
guy smiley wrote:
Working Class Rugger wrote:
I'm also really disappointed that Tanya Pilbersek has withdrawn or that Penny Wong never came into the discussions. Both would be significantly more popular with the electorate than the two likely options.


Plibersek opted out for her kids' sake. No issue there, good on her.

I'm interested in your theory that an electorate that just voted overwhelmingly for a Pentecostal happyclapper running on a zero policy platform would somehow be won over by an Asian Lesbian. By all means, pour me a glass of whatever it is and sign me up for regular delivery.


See, you seem to be presuming that the votes were based on conservative christian values or something. Rather than say... economics and fear of losing jobs/retirement funding.

I doubt being gay, or Asian would matter much to most of the electorate.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 5:09 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon May 21, 2018 12:24 am
Posts: 894
Location: Sydney (for now)
Sensible Stephen wrote:
See, you seem to be presuming that the votes were based on conservative christian values or something. Rather than say... economics and fear of losing jobs/retirement funding.

I doubt being gay, or Asian would matter much to most of the electorate.


More reflective of people inserting their own politics into a narrative they feel vindicates the loss.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 5:09 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 5769
guy smiley wrote:
Working Class Rugger wrote:
I'm also really disappointed that Tanya Pilbersek has withdrawn or that Penny Wong never came into the discussions. Both would be significantly more popular with the electorate than the two likely options.


Plibersek opted out for her kids' sake. No issue there, good on her.

I'm interested in your theory that an electorate that just voted overwhelmingly for a Pentecostal happyclapper running on a zero policy platform would somehow be won over by an Asian Lesbian. By all means, pour me a glass of whatever it is and sign me up for regular delivery.


I would describe him more as a "enthusiastic boofhead dad" no one cares that he is a church goer


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 5:19 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 31875
Location: in transit
Sensible Stephen wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
Working Class Rugger wrote:
I'm also really disappointed that Tanya Pilbersek has withdrawn or that Penny Wong never came into the discussions. Both would be significantly more popular with the electorate than the two likely options.


Plibersek opted out for her kids' sake. No issue there, good on her.

I'm interested in your theory that an electorate that just voted overwhelmingly for a Pentecostal happyclapper running on a zero policy platform would somehow be won over by an Asian Lesbian. By all means, pour me a glass of whatever it is and sign me up for regular delivery.


See, you seem to be presuming that the votes were based on conservative christian values or something. Rather than say... economics and fear of losing jobs/retirement funding.

I doubt being gay, or Asian would matter much to most of the electorate.



I think the way we saw Julia Gillard being treated as PM would offer some clues as to how Penny Wong would fare...

do you see the progression there?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 5:26 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 24813
Location: Queensland
Sensible Stephen wrote:
Come on. Labor is never going to improve its fortunes if the best it can do is blame others for its loss.


I've already said that the ALP campaign was flawed, but you deliberately chose to ignore my previous comments. You're delusional if you think that having 80% of the country's news outlets campaigning passionately and aggressively for one side of politics each and every day doesn't have an impact at elections. It's like a NZ team playing away in SA with a local referee, the ALP need to be significantly better than the Coalition in every facet to have any chance of victory because it certainly isn't a level playing field.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 5:27 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 5769
guy smiley wrote:
Sensible Stephen wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
Working Class Rugger wrote:
I'm also really disappointed that Tanya Pilbersek has withdrawn or that Penny Wong never came into the discussions. Both would be significantly more popular with the electorate than the two likely options.


Plibersek opted out for her kids' sake. No issue there, good on her.

I'm interested in your theory that an electorate that just voted overwhelmingly for a Pentecostal happyclapper running on a zero policy platform would somehow be won over by an Asian Lesbian. By all means, pour me a glass of whatever it is and sign me up for regular delivery.


See, you seem to be presuming that the votes were based on conservative christian values or something. Rather than say... economics and fear of losing jobs/retirement funding.

I doubt being gay, or Asian would matter much to most of the electorate.



I think the way we saw Julia Gillard being treated as PM would offer some clues as to how Penny Wong would fare...

do you see the progression there?


We treat all our politicians badly, it is one area of true equality


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 5:34 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 31875
Location: in transit
_fatprop wrote:
We treat all our politicians badly, it is one area of true equality


I can't agree with you there mate, in this context. Australia treats women poorly and women in politics extremely poorly. There's no equality apparent. No male PM has ever had a radio announcer suggest he should be tied in a chaff bag and dumped at sea. No male pollie has ever had to deal with the ongoing campaign of harassment that Sarah Hansen Young deals with regularly. There are other examples but there's two easy ones off the bat.

I think Penny Wong is Australia's most effective political operator within the parliament but I don't think the country is mature enough to deal with her as opposition leader. I'd love to be wrong and see her crucify opponents... but I think she'd attract too much negative attention and besides, she can't do it from the Senate and there's no way of moving her to the lower house without engineering a by election result.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 5:52 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 18405
guy smiley wrote:
I think Penny Wong is Australia's most effective political operator within the parliament but I don't think the country is mature enough to deal with her as opposition leader. I'd love to be wrong and see her crucify opponents... but I think she'd attract too much negative attention and besides, she can't do it from the Senate and there's no way of moving her to the lower house without engineering a by election result.

Being an effective operator in the parliament is not the same as being PM.

Let's say Penny Wong was a bloke. It's not the case, but let's say she's a fifth generation Australian white bloke in a safe lower house seat, just for the sake of argument to take out all those factors ... She still wouldn't be a good candidate for the ALP driver's seat. Too punchy, too aggressive, too partisan. Too snarky.

I love a good snark more than anyone, but it's a different personality.

But by all means if the ALP want to put her in as party leader, I'm willing to take bets on how she goes.

Clogs, you up m8?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 5:56 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 287
Location: 24 fathom reef off Southport
I stopped following politics closely a decade or two ago. I watched the ABC's coverage and thought Penny Wong's performance was underwhelming. Whilst there is very little doubt she is intelligent, she didn't come across as particularly convincing. Her predominant response is to bag the Libs rather than to push her own agenda. Sinonidis came across well as he did the opposite.

As a communicator she seems to lose her train of thought very regularly - almost every paragraph. Obviously she must go alright in front of the political class but I doubt she'd have widespread appeal to the typical disinterested voter based on the very small sample of her that i've seen.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 5:57 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 31875
Location: in transit
:lol: :lol: :thumbup:

I'm like you I think.. I like some punchy in my pollie, so to speak. I'm guessing the ALP will go with yet another scripted performer and people will compare degrees of charisma gain measured in millisimpers.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 6:03 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 3055
guy smiley wrote:
_fatprop wrote:
We treat all our politicians badly, it is one area of true equality


I can't agree with you there mate, in this context. Australia treats women poorly and women in politics extremely poorly. There's no equality apparent. No male PM has ever had a radio announcer suggest he should be tied in a chaff bag and dumped at sea. No male pollie has ever had to deal with the ongoing campaign of harassment that Sarah Hansen Young deals with regularly. There are other examples but there's two easy ones off the bat.

I think Penny Wong is Australia's most effective political operator within the parliament but I don't think the country is mature enough to deal with her as opposition leader. I'd love to be wrong and see her crucify opponents... but I think she'd attract too much negative attention and besides, she can't do it from the Senate and there's no way of moving her to the lower house without engineering a by election result.




And I happen to think right there is where part of the problem lies. Australia does not treat women poorly. That is a truly appalling statement.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 6:04 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 3055
kiap wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
I think Penny Wong is Australia's most effective political operator within the parliament but I don't think the country is mature enough to deal with her as opposition leader. I'd love to be wrong and see her crucify opponents... but I think she'd attract too much negative attention and besides, she can't do it from the Senate and there's no way of moving her to the lower house without engineering a by election result.

Being an effective operator in the parliament is not the same as being PM.

Let's say Penny Wong was a bloke. It's not the case, but let's say she's a fifth generation Australian white bloke in a safe lower house seat, just for the sake of argument to take out all those factors ... She still wouldn't be a good candidate for the ALP driver's seat. Too punchy, too aggressive, too partisan. Too snarky.

I love a good snark more than anyone, but it's a different personality.

But by all means if the ALP want to put her in as party leader, I'm willing to take bets on how she goes.

Clogs, you up m8?



Present and accounted for.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 6:09 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 5769
guy smiley wrote:
_fatprop wrote:
We treat all our politicians badly, it is one area of true equality


I can't agree with you there mate, in this context. Australia treats women poorly and women in politics extremely poorly. There's no equality apparent. No male PM has ever had a radio announcer suggest he should be tied in a chaff bag and dumped at sea. No male pollie has ever had to deal with the ongoing campaign of harassment that Sarah Hansen Young deals with regularly. There are other examples but there's two easy ones off the bat.


Oh they get treated badly, but most pollies do, which is my point. Neither was treated any worse than Hanson, Dutton or Abbott - just badly in different ways. Stick your head up and it will be kicked for whatever weakness can be perceived

Quote:
I think Penny Wong is Australia's most effective political operator within the parliament but I don't think the country is mature enough to deal with her as opposition leader. I'd love to be wrong and see her crucify opponents... but I think she'd attract too much negative attention and besides, she can't do it from the Senate and there's no way of moving her to the lower house without engineering a by election result.


I don't see Wong as an option outside the inner city, I don't think she can fake empathy well enough to deal with areas outside her safety zone


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 6:10 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 31875
Location: in transit
Clogs wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
_fatprop wrote:
We treat all our politicians badly, it is one area of true equality


I can't agree with you there mate, in this context. Australia treats women poorly and women in politics extremely poorly. There's no equality apparent. No male PM has ever had a radio announcer suggest he should be tied in a chaff bag and dumped at sea. No male pollie has ever had to deal with the ongoing campaign of harassment that Sarah Hansen Young deals with regularly. There are other examples but there's two easy ones off the bat.

I think Penny Wong is Australia's most effective political operator within the parliament but I don't think the country is mature enough to deal with her as opposition leader. I'd love to be wrong and see her crucify opponents... but I think she'd attract too much negative attention and besides, she can't do it from the Senate and there's no way of moving her to the lower house without engineering a by election result.




And I happen to think right there is where part of the problem lies. Australia does not treat women poorly. That is a truly appalling statement.


Are you happy with the rate of death due to domestic violence in Australia, Clogs? Do you think that's ok? Do you think that the overall rate of sexual assault and abuse that women suffer is ok as well? Are you happy with the notion that most of the women you know probably don't feel safe walking down a street at night, or even just going out in everyday life? That most of them will admit to always being on watch for threats, to always being careful not to say anything that will be interpreted as permission for unwanted attention?

Are thse concepts in line with women not being treated poorly, to you?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 6:17 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 4760
Location: Straya cunt
guy smiley wrote:
Clogs wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
_fatprop wrote:
We treat all our politicians badly, it is one area of true equality


I can't agree with you there mate, in this context. Australia treats women poorly and women in politics extremely poorly. There's no equality apparent. No male PM has ever had a radio announcer suggest he should be tied in a chaff bag and dumped at sea. No male pollie has ever had to deal with the ongoing campaign of harassment that Sarah Hansen Young deals with regularly. There are other examples but there's two easy ones off the bat.

I think Penny Wong is Australia's most effective political operator within the parliament but I don't think the country is mature enough to deal with her as opposition leader. I'd love to be wrong and see her crucify opponents... but I think she'd attract too much negative attention and besides, she can't do it from the Senate and there's no way of moving her to the lower house without engineering a by election result.




And I happen to think right there is where part of the problem lies. Australia does not treat women poorly. That is a truly appalling statement.


Are you happy with the rate of death due to domestic violence in Australia, Clogs? Do you think that's ok? Do you think that the overall rate of sexual assault and abuse that women suffer is ok as well? Are you happy with the notion that most of the women you know probably don't feel safe walking down a street at night, or even just going out in everyday life? That most of them will admit to always being on watch for threats, to always being careful not to say anything that will be interpreted as permission for unwanted attention?

Are thse concepts in line with women not being treated poorly, to you?


Seconded...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 7:01 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 5769
guy smiley wrote:
Are you happy with the rate of death due to domestic violence in Australia, Clogs? Do you think that's ok? Do you think that the overall rate of sexual assault and abuse that women suffer is ok as well? Are you happy with the notion that most of the women you know probably don't feel safe walking down a street at night, or even just going out in everyday life? That most of them will admit to always being on watch for threats, to always being careful not to say anything that will be interpreted as permission for unwanted attention?

Are thse concepts in line with women not being treated poorly, to you?


It is all relative mate, it is so much better than it used to be, but clearly not perfect and never, ever will be

As to feeling safe at night, everyone should have situational awareness and make good decisions to limit risk. The weak will always be preyed on.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 7:01 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon May 21, 2018 12:24 am
Posts: 894
Location: Sydney (for now)
Majority for Morrison confirmed with win in Chisholm: https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/politics/federal-election-2019-pm-frydenberg-meet-to-talk-tax-cuts/news-story/7b5ac5958a000c256af76f9f80f1e194


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 7:10 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:45 am
Posts: 2324
I don't think gender is as big an issue as people make it out to be. Gillard got some rough shit thrown her way. But Crazy Tony in speedos just garners a few laughs. Imagine if it was jolly Julia in a bikini or something.

guy smiley wrote:

I think Penny Wong is Australia's most effective political operator within the parliament but I don't think the country is mature enough to deal with her as opposition leader. I'd love to be wrong and see her crucify opponents... but I think she'd attract too much negative attention and besides, she can't do it from the Senate and there's no way of moving her to the lower house without engineering a by election result.


I don't think Wong is very good in debates at all. Far too often she goes after the person and ignores the actual issue they are talking about.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 7:21 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 3055
guy smiley wrote:
Clogs wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
_fatprop wrote:
We treat all our politicians badly, it is one area of true equality


I can't agree with you there mate, in this context. Australia treats women poorly and women in politics extremely poorly. There's no equality apparent. No male PM has ever had a radio announcer suggest he should be tied in a chaff bag and dumped at sea. No male pollie has ever had to deal with the ongoing campaign of harassment that Sarah Hansen Young deals with regularly. There are other examples but there's two easy ones off the bat.

I think Penny Wong is Australia's most effective political operator within the parliament but I don't think the country is mature enough to deal with her as opposition leader. I'd love to be wrong and see her crucify opponents... but I think she'd attract too much negative attention and besides, she can't do it from the Senate and there's no way of moving her to the lower house without engineering a by election result.




And I happen to think right there is where part of the problem lies. Australia does not treat women poorly. That is a truly appalling statement.


Are you happy with the rate of death due to domestic violence in Australia, Clogs? Do you think that's ok? Do you think that the overall rate of sexual assault and abuse that women suffer is ok as well? Are you happy with the notion that most of the women you know probably don't feel safe walking down a street at night, or even just going out in everyday life? That most of them will admit to always being on watch for threats, to always being careful not to say anything that will be interpreted as permission for unwanted attention?

Are thse concepts in line with women not being treated poorly, to you?



Erm, you seem happy to make a gross generalisation (women are treated poorly in Australia), and then quickly try and narrow your argument down to prove your point with a bit of virtue signalling. If you want to generalise then here are some useful stats. The Australian homicide rate is extremely low. 1 in 100 000. This points to Australia being a remarkably safe place to live. For all citizens. Men and women.

Domestic violence is appalling. Statistics show that some 16% of all women (over 15 years old) have experienced physical or sexual violence. 16 out of every 100. That number is still crazy high, but guy, it is a long long way off your claim that women are treated poorly in Australia. Only 6% of men (over 15 years old) have suffered physical or sexual violence.

This is sourced from the Australian government:
https://www.aihw.gov.au/reports/domesti ... ts/summary

Remarkably however, when you look at all physical assaults, 2.4 in 100 000 against men, and 2.3 in 100 000 against women.

Yet even with the domestic violence at an unacceptable level, more men are killed than women. I think it is as high as 70% of all homicide victims are men. So in general terms, women are far more at risk of domestic violence, men and women suffer equally with physical violence and men are far more at risk of being killed than women. Does that mean men and women are treated poorly in Australia? No it does not. Men and women are treated exceptionally well in Australia. Men and women in Australia have access to some of the best education and healthcare anywhere on the planet.

I say again, women are not treated poorly in Australia. Certainly some women suffer terribly. So do some men. But in general? Men and women have fantastic lives in Australia.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 7:23 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 31875
Location: in transit
Sensible Stephen wrote:
I don't think gender is as big an issue as people make it out to be. Gillard got some rough shit thrown her way. But Crazy Tony in speedos just garners a few laughs. Imagine if it was jolly Julia in a bikini or something.

guy smiley wrote:

I think Penny Wong is Australia's most effective political operator within the parliament but I don't think the country is mature enough to deal with her as opposition leader. I'd love to be wrong and see her crucify opponents... but I think she'd attract too much negative attention and besides, she can't do it from the Senate and there's no way of moving her to the lower house without engineering a by election result.


I don't think Wong is very good in debates at all. Far too often she goes after the person and ignores the actual issue they are talking about.


I think the opposite but I've seen quite a bit of her operating in Senate Estimates committees where she is formidable.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 7:31 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:45 am
Posts: 2324
guy smiley wrote:
Sensible Stephen wrote:
I don't think gender is as big an issue as people make it out to be. Gillard got some rough shit thrown her way. But Crazy Tony in speedos just garners a few laughs. Imagine if it was jolly Julia in a bikini or something.

guy smiley wrote:

I think Penny Wong is Australia's most effective political operator within the parliament but I don't think the country is mature enough to deal with her as opposition leader. I'd love to be wrong and see her crucify opponents... but I think she'd attract too much negative attention and besides, she can't do it from the Senate and there's no way of moving her to the lower house without engineering a by election result.


I don't think Wong is very good in debates at all. Far too often she goes after the person and ignores the actual issue they are talking about.


I think the opposite but I've seen quite a bit of her operating in Senate Estimates committees where she is formidable.


Every ABC show I have seen her on, she gets caught up in petty squabbling. If she can't come across well in public, then shes not going to be a great face for the party.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 7:38 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 287
Location: 24 fathom reef off Southport
guy smiley wrote:
:lol: :lol: :thumbup:

I'm like you I think.. I like some punchy in my pollie, so to speak. I'm guessing the ALP will go with yet another scripted performer and people will compare degrees of charisma gain measured in millisimpers.


Howard stayed in for 9 years or whatever primarily because he was a good salesman. Morrison is a good salesman. The ALP are going to need a straight talking man of the people to have a chance in 3 years. Saturday night was the first time I'd listened to Albanese talk at length. It aint him. He looks like a defrocked catholic priest too, imho.

Tanya is effective, my guess is her and her corner reckon the ALP will lose next time too, so she'll have a crack in 3 years. I agree with that assessment. The ALP just lost the unlosable to a 7 month relatively unknown PM taking over an absolute clusterfvck. Provided Morrison doesn't do a Campbell Newman (highly unlikely) or get busted shagging a goat (more likely - there's some pretty good looking goats you have to admit) then his gloss with the parliamentary team will keep the boys in check.

Bowen is thick. He couldn't even regurgitate the tax rates. I don't know anything of the youngish Queenslander getting mentioned. He'd be might be worth a go. Not a lot to lose.

Whatever, we need both sides and to be a lot better.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 7:45 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 287
Location: 24 fathom reef off Southport
kiap wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
I think Penny Wong is Australia's most effective political operator within the parliament but I don't think the country is mature enough to deal with her as opposition leader. I'd love to be wrong and see her crucify opponents... but I think she'd attract too much negative attention and besides, she can't do it from the Senate and there's no way of moving her to the lower house without engineering a by election result.

Being an effective operator in the parliament is not the same as being PM.

Let's say Penny Wong was a bloke. It's not the case, but let's say she's a fifth generation Australian white bloke in a safe lower house seat, just for the sake of argument to take out all those factors ... She still wouldn't be a good candidate for the ALP driver's seat. Too punchy, too aggressive, too partisan. Too snarky.

I love a good snark more than anyone, but it's a different personality.

But by all means if the ALP want to put her in as party leader, I'm willing to take bets on how she goes.

Clogs, you up m8?


I agree.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 7:53 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 287
Location: 24 fathom reef off Southport
Beetoota have spoken, "Labor Asks Freddy Fittler To Find A Team Of Young Blackfellas And Help Them Turn This Around"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 7:56 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 3055
guy smiley wrote:
Sensible Stephen wrote:
I don't think gender is as big an issue as people make it out to be. Gillard got some rough shit thrown her way. But Crazy Tony in speedos just garners a few laughs. Imagine if it was jolly Julia in a bikini or something.

guy smiley wrote:

I think Penny Wong is Australia's most effective political operator within the parliament but I don't think the country is mature enough to deal with her as opposition leader. I'd love to be wrong and see her crucify opponents... but I think she'd attract too much negative attention and besides, she can't do it from the Senate and there's no way of moving her to the lower house without engineering a by election result.


I don't think Wong is very good in debates at all. Far too often she goes after the person and ignores the actual issue they are talking about.


I think the opposite but I've seen quite a bit of her operating in Senate Estimates committees where she is formidable.


I think Penny is currently the most formidable politician lurking in the swamplands of Australian politics. She is very genuine and would 100% get my vote.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 8:49 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 7:02 am
Posts: 3614
Who's got the numbers? Albo missed out last time, to a right winger. What will be different this time?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 9:55 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:08 pm
Posts: 1643
Location: Sydney
So no tax cuts this year. Is this the fastest broken campaign promise ever? Seriously these wankers can’t get themselves organised to get to Canberra and pass legislation in time? Fuckin laughable and it was their signature policy


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 10:17 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2016 1:50 am
Posts: 4005
swc wrote:
So no tax cuts this year. Is this the fastest broken campaign promise ever? Seriously these wankers can’t get themselves organised to get to Canberra and pass legislation in time? Fuckin laughable and it was their signature policy


Yep, it will be like this for the next 3 years


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 1:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 457
Obviously disappointed with the result as I thought Labor had so much more to offer than the LNP from a nation building, funding and fairness point of view.

General thoughts:
1. Just a general lack of interest from the 18 to 30 age group with answers such as "I don't know what their policies are but I just don't like Shorten" and "what are the differences between the parties?" to "my electorate is 'insert suburb name here'". The expected positive kick to Labor and the Greens from the thousands of younger voters signing up for the Marriage Equality Plebiscite failed to have an impact.

2. Labor set themselves up as a big target with their comprehensive suite of policies that were released many months in advance. You could have mistaken Labor as the Government and the LNP as the opposition. Tax cuts and the 10,000 spots for the First Home Buyer deposit guarantee seemed to be the only LNP policies. This allowed Morrison to focus on a negative campaign on these policies.

3. Following on from point 3, it seems that for the majority of people, self interest will always trump longer term nation building. Tax cuts seemed to be more important for many people over schools, education, the environment and health (particularly the cancer health policy). Having said that, I can see how much more important it was for rural QLD to have jobs prioritised over the environment.

4. Misinformation and lies are now entrenched. It is so much easier to lie and create fear about your opposition's policies than to be positive about your own. Mediscare worked, to some extent, for Labor in 2016 and in this election we had $387 billion of taxes, death taxes and the like. There needs to be some way that the AEC holds parties and people accountable for lies. One of my team said that on WeChat, it was his estimate that 90% of those he interacted with said they were voting for the LNP because they didn't want to pay death taxes.

5. Despite Clive Palmer not winning a single seat, his relentless advertisements probably had a larger impact than given credit for. I wish the Government would go after him for the $77 million he owes for wages and entitlements. Those who told me they were voting for him easily repeated his promises but weren't able to explain how they would be achieved.

Unless there is a significant shift in public thinking, the only way that I can see Labor winning a large majority in the future is if Australia goes through a significant and prolonged recession with the LNP in charge. The LNP has a significant advantage in people thinking that they are better economic managers compared to Labor.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 1:09 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 457
Pat the Ex Mat wrote:
swc wrote:
So no tax cuts this year. Is this the fastest broken campaign promise ever? Seriously these wankers can’t get themselves organised to get to Canberra and pass legislation in time? Fuckin laughable and it was their signature policy


Yep, it will be like this for the next 3 years


I love how they are blaming the bureaucrats for this but they would have known that calling the election in late May would mean that the writs would not be returned in time for Parliament to re-sit this side of the financial year.

Anyway, do I get a tax cut this year or is my tax cut coming in their next term of Government?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 1:14 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 457
Given that Morrison won this election almost on his own (cameos from Josh), does this mean that he can tell the right of his party to piss off?

I presume that because so many of the Liberal moderates quit, the party is now stacked with the right.

Should be interesting to see how this plays out.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 1:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 457
Hardtackle wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
:lol: :lol: :thumbup:

I'm like you I think.. I like some punchy in my pollie, so to speak. I'm guessing the ALP will go with yet another scripted performer and people will compare degrees of charisma gain measured in millisimpers.


Howard stayed in for 9 years or whatever primarily because he was a good salesman. Morrison is a good salesman. The ALP are going to need a straight talking man of the people to have a chance in 3 years. Saturday night was the first time I'd listened to Albanese talk at length. It aint him. He looks like a defrocked catholic priest too, imho.

Tanya is effective, my guess is her and her corner reckon the ALP will lose next time too, so she'll have a crack in 3 years. I agree with that assessment. The ALP just lost the unlosable to a 7 month relatively unknown PM taking over an absolute clusterfvck. Provided Morrison doesn't do a Campbell Newman (highly unlikely) or get busted shagging a goat (more likely - there's some pretty good looking goats you have to admit) then his gloss with the parliamentary team will keep the boys in check.

Bowen is thick. He couldn't even regurgitate the tax rates. I don't know anything of the youngish Queenslander getting mentioned. He'd be might be worth a go. Not a lot to lose.

Whatever, we need both sides and to be a lot better.


If Bowen gets the gig (and I hope he doesn't), the Government at the next election will be running non-stop footage of him saying "if you don't like our policy, don't vote for us".

I think Albo is a real down to earth character and more people would warm to him. Jim Chalmers seems polished enough, but is really young and I don't know if he will catch the Australia's public's imagination. Being a QLDer is a positive because we all know we need so much help up there!


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23900 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 591, 592, 593, 594, 595, 596, 597, 598  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: bessantj, Blake, camroc1, CarrotGawks, Conn, Conspicuous, eldanielfire, Google Adsense [Bot], Google [Bot], inactionman, Jensrsa, Phredd, Theflier, TheFrog, ZappaMan, zt1903, zzzz and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group