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 Post subject: Re: Anthony Joshua
PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 3:20 am 
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booji boy wrote:
LandOTurk wrote:
CrazyIslander wrote:
BillW is right
Its Thrilli in Manilli


I think you are mixing it up with Milli Vanilli.


Did Ruiz expose Joshua to be as much a fake as Milli Vanilli was?

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 Post subject: Re: Anthony Joshua
PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:29 am 
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Rumours that Ruiz Jr. is not thrilled with the arrangements. Mostly based on nothing (i.e. social media silence).


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 Post subject: Re: Anthony Joshua
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:40 am 
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Floyd Mayweather Jr named all-time best boxer

Box Rec's Top 19 Greatest of All-Time:

1. Floyd Mayweather Jr
2. Manny Pacquiao
3. Carlos Monzon
4. Muhammad Ali
5. Bernard Hopkins
6. Sugar Ray Robinson
7. Joe Louis
8. Archie Moore
9. Oscar De La Hoya
10. Julio Cesar Chavez
11. Evander Holyfield
12. Roberto Duran
13. Marvin Hagler
14. Floyd Patterson
15. Ray Leonard
16. Juan Manuel Marquez
17. Pernell Whitaker
18. Rocky Marciano
19. Harry Greb


So - Tyson nor Butterbean in the top 20... obviously shome mishtake


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 Post subject: Re: Anthony Joshua
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:49 am 
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Quote:
14. Floyd Patterson


What the heck?


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 Post subject: Re: Anthony Joshua
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:58 am 
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Where's Jimmy Wilde?


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 Post subject: Re: Anthony Joshua
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:53 am 
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icon wrote:
Floyd Mayweather Jr named all-time best boxer

Box Rec's Top 19 Greatest of All-Time:

1. Floyd Mayweather Jr
2. Manny Pacquiao
3. Carlos Monzon
4. Muhammad Ali
5. Bernard Hopkins
6. Sugar Ray Robinson
7. Joe Louis
8. Archie Moore
9. Oscar De La Hoya
10. Julio Cesar Chavez
11. Evander Holyfield
12. Roberto Duran
13. Marvin Hagler
14. Floyd Patterson
15. Ray Leonard
16. Juan Manuel Marquez
17. Pernell Whitaker
18. Rocky Marciano
19. Harry Greb


So - Tyson nor Butterbean in the top 20... obviously shome mishtake


Some "political" choices there.


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 Post subject: Re: Anthony Joshua
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:09 am 
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It's box rec, so it's based on an algorithm of rankings and points for wins based on those rankings. It's not a bad guide but totally useless for something like an all time greatest list. For a start the multiplication of champions skews it in favour of modern fighters since you can get more points for taking a title than just beating a contender. Same logic for fights that were no decisions - which were very common into the 40's - or "newspaper" decisions where it was entirely down to what the correspondent thought of it.

Shows how good Harry Greb was that he's ranked that high with so much in the algorithm against him.


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 Post subject: Re: Anthony Joshua
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:13 am 
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Seems very skewed to the recent past. Julio Cesar Chavez ahead of Roberto Duran?

Oscar De La Hoya at 9? WTF???


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 Post subject: Re: Anthony Joshua
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:09 pm 
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Hagler at 13 is the biggest nonsense


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 Post subject: Re: Anthony Joshua
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:12 pm 
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booji boy wrote:
Seems very skewed to the recent past. Julio Cesar Chavez ahead of Roberto Duran?

Oscar De La Hoya at 9? WTF???


I'm also puzzled at the logic behind their list. Duran is the greatest lightweight ever IMO.

I'm a huge fan of Hagler, but there's no way you can rank him above Sugar Ray Leonard.


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 Post subject: Re: Anthony Joshua
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:44 pm 
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rialtoblue wrote:
Hagler at 13 is the biggest nonsense


But Bernard Hopkins at 5 is Ok? :?


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 Post subject: Re: Anthony Joshua
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:48 pm 
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Tehui wrote:
booji boy wrote:
Seems very skewed to the recent past. Julio Cesar Chavez ahead of Roberto Duran?

Oscar De La Hoya at 9? WTF???


I'm also puzzled at the logic behind their list. Duran is the greatest lightweight ever IMO.

I'm a huge fan of Hagler, but there's no way you can rank him above Sugar Ray Leonard.


Leonard was ko'd by the most powderpuff puncher of the 80-90's Hector Macho Comacho. He deserves to drop out of the top 20 for the shame and ignominy of that alone.


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 Post subject: Re: Anthony Joshua
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:53 pm 
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I must be talking to my fucking self.


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 Post subject: Re: Anthony Joshua
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:47 pm 
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crash 669 wrote:
I must be talking to my fucking self.

:nod:


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 Post subject: Re: Anthony Joshua
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:01 pm 
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booji boy wrote:
Tehui wrote:
booji boy wrote:
Seems very skewed to the recent past. Julio Cesar Chavez ahead of Roberto Duran?

Oscar De La Hoya at 9? WTF???


I'm also puzzled at the logic behind their list. Duran is the greatest lightweight ever IMO.

I'm a huge fan of Hagler, but there's no way you can rank him above Sugar Ray Leonard.


Leonard was ko'd by the most powderpuff puncher of the 80-90's Hector Macho Comacho. He deserves to drop out of the top 20 for the shame and ignominy of that alone.


SRL was 40 years old and had not fought in more than five years


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 Post subject: Re: Anthony Joshua
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:21 pm 
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SRL beat Hagler at a time when I didn't think he could be


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 Post subject: Re: Anthony Joshua
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:47 pm 
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Frodder wrote:
SRL beat Hagler at a time when I didn't think he could be


There's an excellent video on that fight on the youtube channel Rummy's Corner, breaks it down round by round to see if Hagler was robbed.

His conclusion was that he had Hagler winning by 2, but there were at least 6 rounds that were so close it's a nightmare to score and so giving it to either fighter by one or two rounds is justifiable.

As a massive Hagler fan I'm very biased when it comes to that fight but I still think Hagler won and had it been 15 rounds I'm confident Hagler would have closed it out. But Ray Leonard was a great fighter without doubt.


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 Post subject: Re: Anthony Joshua
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:22 pm 
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crash 669 wrote:
Frodder wrote:
SRL beat Hagler at a time when I didn't think he could be


There's an excellent video on that fight on the youtube channel Rummy's Corner, breaks it down round by round to see if Hagler was robbed.

His conclusion was that he had Hagler winning by 2, but there were at least 6 rounds that were so close it's a nightmare to score and so giving it to either fighter by one or two rounds is justifiable.

As a massive Hagler fan I'm very biased when it comes to that fight but I still think Hagler won and had it been 15 rounds I'm confident Hagler would have closed it out. But Ray Leonard was a great fighter without doubt.

Massive fan of both. I really didn't know who I wanted to win until the fight had started. Even then When they gave the result to Leonard and I'd wanted and thought Hagler had won it. I wasn't upset.


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 Post subject: Re: Anthony Joshua
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:54 pm 
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I hope Ruiz tells Eddie Hearn to fuck all the way off and stuff his blood money up his hole.

https://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_/id/ ... udi-arabia


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 Post subject: Re: Anthony Joshua
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:29 pm 
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I was also a massive Hagler fan and was gutted when he lost. I was also angry at him though, as it appeared he was coasting and his corner should have known it was close.


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 Post subject: Re: Anthony Joshua
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:08 pm 
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Bowens wrote:
I hope Ruiz tells Eddie Hearn to fuck all the way off and stuff his blood money up his hole.

https://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_/id/ ... udi-arabia


If there is a contract in place Ruiz can be stripped for refusal. His risk.


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 Post subject: Re: Anthony Joshua
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:16 pm 
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Mick Mannock wrote:
Bowens wrote:
I hope Ruiz tells Eddie Hearn to fuck all the way off and stuff his blood money up his hole.

https://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_/id/ ... udi-arabia


If there is a contract in place Ruiz can be stripped for refusal. His risk.

The sanctioning bodies need to take a tougher line with the these return fight conditions.
Fighters like Ruiz win titles fair and square but due to the grossly unfair conditions that have to be accepted in order to get a challenge, find that the promoter to all intents and purposes, still owns the titles and even gains control over the fighter himself.

Brinkmanship is Ruiz's only recourse to gain a better deal.
He knows that if he refuses to agree to the terms then the titles will become vacant and Hearn will lose big time as well.

It's easy to see why Wilder didn't sign for the fight everybody wanted.


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 Post subject: Re: Anthony Joshua
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:05 am 
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BillW wrote:
Mick Mannock wrote:
Bowens wrote:
I hope Ruiz tells Eddie Hearn to fuck all the way off and stuff his blood money up his hole.

https://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_/id/ ... udi-arabia


If there is a contract in place Ruiz can be stripped for refusal. His risk.

The sanctioning bodies need to take a tougher line with the these return fight conditions.
Fighters like Ruiz win titles fair and square but due to the grossly unfair conditions that have to be accepted in order to get a challenge, find that the promoter to all intents and purposes, still owns the titles and even gains control over the fighter himself.

Brinkmanship is Ruiz's only recourse to gain a better deal.
He knows that if he refuses to agree to the terms then the titles will become vacant and Hearn will lose big time as well.

It's easy to see why Wilder didn't sign for the fight everybody wanted.

It's not grossly unfair. It's just basically a potential two fight deal. All of a sudden standard practice is unfair when it's Hearn and Joshua. Ruiz just has to beat him again and he is free and clear. He was very happy to contact Eddie Hearn and ask for the fight in the first place knowing there would be a rematch clause. He was over the moon when Hearn said yes. My guess is he is still happy enough and just trying his luck and has got dickheads frothing for no good reason.


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 Post subject: Re: Anthony Joshua
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:18 am 
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Ruiz must fight. He's one win away from making his own deals. Beat the glass jawed Brit.


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 Post subject: Re: Anthony Joshua
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:29 am 
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CrazyIslander wrote:
Ruiz must fight. He's one win away from making his own deals. Beat the glass jawed Brit.

Don't worry Crazy. He almost certainly has no intention of not fighting.


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 Post subject: Re: Anthony Joshua
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:13 am 
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Anonymous. wrote:
BillW wrote:
Mick Mannock wrote:
Bowens wrote:
I hope Ruiz tells Eddie Hearn to fuck all the way off and stuff his blood money up his hole.

https://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_/id/ ... udi-arabia


If there is a contract in place Ruiz can be stripped for refusal. His risk.

The sanctioning bodies need to take a tougher line with the these return fight conditions.
Fighters like Ruiz win titles fair and square but due to the grossly unfair conditions that have to be accepted in order to get a challenge, find that the promoter to all intents and purposes, still owns the titles and even gains control over the fighter himself.

Brinkmanship is Ruiz's only recourse to gain a better deal.
He knows that if he refuses to agree to the terms then the titles will become vacant and Hearn will lose big time as well.

It's easy to see why Wilder didn't sign for the fight everybody wanted.

It's not grossly unfair. It's just basically a potential two fight deal. All of a sudden standard practice is unfair when it's Hearn and Joshua. Ruiz just has to beat him again and he is free and clear. He was very happy to contact Eddie Hearn and ask for the fight in the first place knowing there would be a rematch clause. He was over the moon when Hearn said yes. My guess is he is still happy enough and just trying his luck and has got dickheads frothing for no good reason.

I guess he should be more grateful for the crumbs from Eddies table.


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 Post subject: Re: Anthony Joshua
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:43 am 
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BillW wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
BillW wrote:
Mick Mannock wrote:
Bowens wrote:
I hope Ruiz tells Eddie Hearn to fuck all the way off and stuff his blood money up his hole.

https://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_/id/ ... udi-arabia


If there is a contract in place Ruiz can be stripped for refusal. His risk.

The sanctioning bodies need to take a tougher line with the these return fight conditions.
Fighters like Ruiz win titles fair and square but due to the grossly unfair conditions that have to be accepted in order to get a challenge, find that the promoter to all intents and purposes, still owns the titles and even gains control over the fighter himself.

Brinkmanship is Ruiz's only recourse to gain a better deal.
He knows that if he refuses to agree to the terms then the titles will become vacant and Hearn will lose big time as well.

It's easy to see why Wilder didn't sign for the fight everybody wanted.

It's not grossly unfair. It's just basically a potential two fight deal. All of a sudden standard practice is unfair when it's Hearn and Joshua. Ruiz just has to beat him again and he is free and clear. He was very happy to contact Eddie Hearn and ask for the fight in the first place knowing there would be a rematch clause. He was over the moon when Hearn said yes. My guess is he is still happy enough and just trying his luck and has got dickheads frothing for no good reason.

I guess he should be more grateful for the crumbs from Eddies table.

I'm guessing he was and still is very happy he signed a contract to get the best purse of his life to fight Joshua which in the event of his win had a rematch clause which would see him get an even bigger purse. it's just laughable some plums can't see he is just trying to bump his money up. No one has a problem with him trying that.


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 Post subject: Re: Anthony Joshua
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:37 am 
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Fatty throwing his toys out of the pram because he's suddenly unhappy with the contract that plucked him out of the top 10, made him a unified heavyweight champion and put 7 figures in his bank account.

It's hard to have much sympathy.


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 Post subject: Re: Anthony Joshua
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:19 am 
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crash 669 wrote:
Frodder wrote:
SRL beat Hagler at a time when I didn't think he could be


There's an excellent video on that fight on the youtube channel Rummy's Corner, breaks it down round by round to see if Hagler was robbed.

His conclusion was that he had Hagler winning by 2, but there were at least 6 rounds that were so close it's a nightmare to score and so giving it to either fighter by one or two rounds is justifiable.

As a massive Hagler fan I'm very biased when it comes to that fight but I still think Hagler won and had it been 15 rounds I'm confident Hagler would have closed it out. But Ray Leonard was a great fighter without doubt.



Yeah I've seen that video. Interesting watch with the benefit of hindsight. I was also a massive Hagler fan and was completely gutted when he lost but I felt Leonard won the fight. I've always been surprised how many fans feel that Hagler was robbed. I just felt he was completely outboxed and outfoxed by Leonard. I wonder if Hagler was past his best that night. He just looked so slow compared to Leonard. But then again Leonard was 30 and coming off a three year layoff so nowhere near his peak either. I feel if they had fought in 1982, when both were at or near their peak, Leonard would still have won in similar fashion. Styles make fights and I just felt that Leonard had the perfect style, skills and game plan to beat Hagler.

Still love Hagler though. The Hagler Hearns fight is still the single most exciting fight I've ever watched.


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 Post subject: Re: Anthony Joshua
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:24 pm 
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I think if the fight was 15 rounds and Hagler had fought southpaw he would have won but it would have been close. Leonard was so flash and fast he was able to steal rounds, along with the narrative in people's minds that he was going to get blown away so he got the benefit of the doubt in close rounds just by surviving.

That said Hagler threw away some early rounds by boxing orthodox, one of the Petronelli's said he thought Marvin wanted to show the world that he was better than Ray orthodox or southpaw, and played into Ray's hands. Hagler was also a slow starter (Hearns being the exception) and grew into fights late, so I would have expected him to do well in 12-15.

But SRL was a great fighter, came up with a strategy that was just enough to get him past Hagler and had the stones to pull it off. As much as I want to find a way to say Hagler won really, a close SRL win is the right result. Just a shame they only did it once and left it so late.


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 Post subject: Re: Anthony Joshua
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:40 pm 
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crash 669 wrote:
I think if the fight was 15 rounds and Hagler had fought southpaw he would have won but it would have been close. Leonard was so flash and fast he was able to steal rounds, along with the narrative in people's minds that he was going to get blown away so he got the benefit of the doubt in close rounds just by surviving.

That said Hagler threw away some early rounds by boxing orthodox, one of the Petronelli's said he thought Marvin wanted to show the world that he was better than Ray orthodox or southpaw, and played into Ray's hands. Hagler was also a slow starter (Hearns being the exception) and grew into fights late, so I would have expected him to do well in 12-15.

But SRL was a great fighter, came up with a strategy that was just enough to get him past Hagler and had the stones to pull it off. As much as I want to find a way to say Hagler won really, a close SRL win is the right result. Just a shame they only did it once and left it so late.


100% agree with all of that.


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 Post subject: Re: Anthony Joshua
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:15 pm 
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crash 669 wrote:
I must be talking to my fucking self.


Now you know how I feel in the pub


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 Post subject: Re: Anthony Joshua
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:12 pm 
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booji boy wrote:
Still love Hagler though. The Hagler Hearns fight is still the single most exciting fight I've ever watched.


The only bad thing about it was that it finished so quickly. I wanted a good 10 rounds.


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 Post subject: Re: Anthony Joshua
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:29 pm 
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booji boy wrote:
crash 669 wrote:
Frodder wrote:
SRL beat Hagler at a time when I didn't think he could be


There's an excellent video on that fight on the youtube channel Rummy's Corner, breaks it down round by round to see if Hagler was robbed.

His conclusion was that he had Hagler winning by 2, but there were at least 6 rounds that were so close it's a nightmare to score and so giving it to either fighter by one or two rounds is justifiable.

As a massive Hagler fan I'm very biased when it comes to that fight but I still think Hagler won and had it been 15 rounds I'm confident Hagler would have closed it out. But Ray Leonard was a great fighter without doubt.



Yeah I've seen that video. Interesting watch with the benefit of hindsight. I was also a massive Hagler fan and was completely gutted when he lost but I felt Leonard won the fight. I've always been surprised how many fans feel that Hagler was robbed. I just felt he was completely outboxed and outfoxed by Leonard. I wonder if Hagler was past his best that night. He just looked so slow compared to Leonard. But then again Leonard was 30 and coming off a three year layoff so nowhere near his peak either. I feel if they had fought in 1982, when both were at or near their peak, Leonard would still have won in similar fashion. Styles make fights and I just felt that Leonard had the perfect style, skills and game plan to beat Hagler.

Still love Hagler though. The Hagler Hearns fight is still the single most exciting fight I've ever watched.


For a cruel dismantling https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGTlQsjzmWU&t=1502s


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 Post subject: Re: Anthony Joshua
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:43 pm 
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LandOTurk wrote:
booji boy wrote:
Still love Hagler though. The Hagler Hearns fight is still the single most exciting fight I've ever watched.


The only bad thing about it was that it finished so quickly. I wanted a good 10 rounds.


We got about 10 rounds worth of action in those 3 rounds though!


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 Post subject: Re: Anthony Joshua
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:41 pm 
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Mick Mannock wrote:
Bowens wrote:
I hope Ruiz tells Eddie Hearn to fuck all the way off and stuff his blood money up his hole.

https://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_/id/ ... udi-arabia


If there is a contract in place Ruiz can be stripped for refusal. His risk.


Bob Arum:

Quote:
I think Eddie Hearn showed how stupid he is by making the announcement that the fight was in Saudi Arabia before he signed Ruiz to a contract. Now Ruiz has him by the balls


https://www.boxingscene.com/bob-arum-an ... ls--141823


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 Post subject: Re: Anthony Joshua
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:30 pm 
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An interview with Manny Robles brings some clarity into what is causing the delay in signing off the fight in SA from the Ruiz team's point of view.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5lRDt5d12M

Manny Robles seems to be a pretty grounded individual.
It appears they want the fight but need some things cleared up.


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 Post subject: Re: Anthony Joshua
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:59 pm 
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Bowens wrote:
Mick Mannock wrote:
Bowens wrote:
I hope Ruiz tells Eddie Hearn to fuck all the way off and stuff his blood money up his hole.

https://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_/id/ ... udi-arabia


If there is a contract in place Ruiz can be stripped for refusal. His risk.


Bob Arum:

Quote:
I think Eddie Hearn showed how stupid he is by making the announcement that the fight was in Saudi Arabia before he signed Ruiz to a contract. Now Ruiz has him by the balls


https://www.boxingscene.com/bob-arum-an ... ls--141823

It's boxing and people can say what they want. My guess is Hearn Ruiz has to fight in SA and like I said before he is just angling for more money. No problem


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 Post subject: Re: Anthony Joshua
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:17 am 
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Anonymous. wrote:
Bowens wrote:
Mick Mannock wrote:
Bowens wrote:
I hope Ruiz tells Eddie Hearn to fuck all the way off and stuff his blood money up his hole.

https://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_/id/ ... udi-arabia


If there is a contract in place Ruiz can be stripped for refusal. His risk.


Bob Arum:

Quote:
I think Eddie Hearn showed how stupid he is by making the announcement that the fight was in Saudi Arabia before he signed Ruiz to a contract. Now Ruiz has him by the balls


https://www.boxingscene.com/bob-arum-an ... ls--141823

It's boxing and people can say what they want. My guess is Hearn Ruiz has to fight in SA and like I said before he is just angling for more money. No problem

And, if I can indulge in some wild speculation, the extra money does not necessarily have to come from Hearn.
The Saudi organisers could do a side deal with Ruiz to grease the wheels.


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