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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:00 am 
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DOB wrote:
There will always be a section of cycling fans that don't like Valverde for precisely that reason. It might be a bit unfair, given he's served his time and at this stage absolutely proven that he's one of the most talented bike racers of his era. But at the same time, it's a worthwhile lesson for young riders considering trying something; this guy won a Vuelta, a Worlds, multiple monuments, but for a lot of people, they still talk about the one thing.

The other doping lesson with Valverde is they don't need to actually test you positive to ban you.


Yeah it's a bit of a pity since he has done his time as you say. I don't think there has been any suggestion that he's used since then. I think he's a fantastic cyclist and I'd count myself as a bit of a fanboy, so I'm delighted for him. He's had a very exciting season so it's good to see him come away with a big win like that.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:04 am 
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I thought this World Championship would be between Valverde and Alaphilippe, but the Frenchman didn't have enough in the tank and exploded on the final climb.

Impressive Valverde, but this was to be his championship. He is the only one who has that mix of climb ability, punch on steep hills and finishing speed.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:57 am 
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Bullettyme wrote:
DOB wrote:
There will always be a section of cycling fans that don't like Valverde for precisely that reason. It might be a bit unfair, given he's served his time and at this stage absolutely proven that he's one of the most talented bike racers of his era. But at the same time, it's a worthwhile lesson for young riders considering trying something; this guy won a Vuelta, a Worlds, multiple monuments, but for a lot of people, they still talk about the one thing.

The other doping lesson with Valverde is they don't need to actually test you positive to ban you.


Yeah it's a bit of a pity since he has done his time as you say. I don't think there has been any suggestion that he's used since then. I think he's a fantastic cyclist and I'd count myself as a bit of a fanboy, so I'm delighted for him. He's had a very exciting season so it's good to see him come away with a big win like that.


He’s put in a huge season, it’s great to see him win the worlds and at this stage of his career it’s fantastic. I’ve not been able to see any of it but I’ll chase down a replay when I’m placed... such a brutal course I suppose hindsight helps but not many riders were going to be able to pull that one off.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:22 am 
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Bullettyme wrote:
DOB wrote:
There will always be a section of cycling fans that don't like Valverde for precisely that reason. It might be a bit unfair, given he's served his time and at this stage absolutely proven that he's one of the most talented bike racers of his era. But at the same time, it's a worthwhile lesson for young riders considering trying something; this guy won a Vuelta, a Worlds, multiple monuments, but for a lot of people, they still talk about the one thing.

The other doping lesson with Valverde is they don't need to actually test you positive to ban you.


Yeah it's a bit of a pity since he has done his time as you say. I don't think there has been any suggestion that he's used since then. I think he's a fantastic cyclist and I'd count myself as a bit of a fanboy, so I'm delighted for him. He's had a very exciting season so it's good to see him come away with a big win like that.


I am conflicted about Valcerdes win, for those reasons, he is a fantastic cyclist (as were/are many convicted dopers) but I think penalties for proven dopers should be far harsher. As you say he has served his time according to the rules so so be it.

On a personal level I'd have preferred Woods to win or Dumoulin for his fantastic chase. From not liking Dumoulin he has changed my opinion since winning the TdF TT and his reaction to winning that stage and coming second in that race


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:31 pm 
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blindcider wrote:
Bullettyme wrote:
DOB wrote:
There will always be a section of cycling fans that don't like Valverde for precisely that reason. It might be a bit unfair, given he's served his time and at this stage absolutely proven that he's one of the most talented bike racers of his era. But at the same time, it's a worthwhile lesson for young riders considering trying something; this guy won a Vuelta, a Worlds, multiple monuments, but for a lot of people, they still talk about the one thing.

The other doping lesson with Valverde is they don't need to actually test you positive to ban you.


Yeah it's a bit of a pity since he has done his time as you say. I don't think there has been any suggestion that he's used since then. I think he's a fantastic cyclist and I'd count myself as a bit of a fanboy, so I'm delighted for him. He's had a very exciting season so it's good to see him come away with a big win like that.


I am conflicted about Valcerdes win, for those reasons, he is a fantastic cyclist (as were/are many convicted dopers) but I think penalties for proven dopers should be far harsher. As you say he has served his time according to the rules so so be it.

On a personal level I'd have preferred Woods to win or Dumoulin for his fantastic chase. From not liking Dumoulin he has changed my opinion since winning the TdF TT and his reaction to winning that stage and coming second in that race


He has never been tested positive.

Unlike other pro cyclists who were free to continue competing... :P


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:36 am 
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If you'd asked me in 2005, I'd have said that Valverde would have been the next great Spanish cyclist. Contador was not then regarded as the next great prospect, but Valverde was.

He's always been a classy rider. Of course his suspension for doping weighs heavily on his legacy.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:43 am 
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TheFrog wrote:
blindcider wrote:
Bullettyme wrote:
DOB wrote:
There will always be a section of cycling fans that don't like Valverde for precisely that reason. It might be a bit unfair, given he's served his time and at this stage absolutely proven that he's one of the most talented bike racers of his era. But at the same time, it's a worthwhile lesson for young riders considering trying something; this guy won a Vuelta, a Worlds, multiple monuments, but for a lot of people, they still talk about the one thing.

The other doping lesson with Valverde is they don't need to actually test you positive to ban you.


Yeah it's a bit of a pity since he has done his time as you say. I don't think there has been any suggestion that he's used since then. I think he's a fantastic cyclist and I'd count myself as a bit of a fanboy, so I'm delighted for him. He's had a very exciting season so it's good to see him come away with a big win like that.


I am conflicted about Valcerdes win, for those reasons, he is a fantastic cyclist (as were/are many convicted dopers) but I think penalties for proven dopers should be far harsher. As you say he has served his time according to the rules so so be it.

On a personal level I'd have preferred Woods to win or Dumoulin for his fantastic chase. From not liking Dumoulin he has changed my opinion since winning the TdF TT and his reaction to winning that stage and coming second in that race


He has never been tested positive.

Unlike other pro cyclists who were free to continue competing... :P



Jan Ullrich wasn't. Puerto killed his career.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:47 am 
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Giro di Lombardia up next.

I've always liked this race, a real classic.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:57 pm 
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Miguel Indurain wrote:
Giro di Lombardia up next.

I've always liked this race, a real classic.


The best of the lot. It's a shame it's so late in the season.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:05 pm 
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clydecloggie wrote:
Miguel Indurain wrote:
Giro di Lombardia up next.

I've always liked this race, a real classic.


The best of the lot. It's a shame it's so late in the season.


Its my favourite too, the race of the falling leaves!


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:53 am 
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Paris-Tours up next, actually.

An underrated classic. It's thrown up a few good races in recent years, not the automatic bunch sprint of reputation. I'm happy to see that it's separated from Lombardia by a week this year, instead of being the same weekend. It might get a bit of its own limelight.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:03 pm 
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This is kinda funny:

https://mobile.twitter.com/lancearmstro ... 6685815808


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:55 am 
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Bullettyme wrote:


I watched his Podcast a few times during the season, he is actually quite a witty prick.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:42 am 
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No mention of Tibopino's win at Lombardia? Really was an impressive ride, and just the way he dropped Nibali on the Civiglio left you in no doubt whatsoever who was the strongest in the race.

Again, not for the first time, a downside of the race was the inability of the chasing group to put together any sort of coordination. Once a break goes, there seems to be a sense of inevitability about never pulling it back, and apart from the odd dig by Martin or Wellens or Majka (but never all 3 at the same time) there was no attempt to change that. 40 seconds at the foot of the final climb should have been recoverable, given they'd all been sitting on Dani Martiniez's wheel while the front 4 had been taking turns (apart from Roglic, who was cooked).

But that's a small quibble; great ride by Pinot, who's really had a great finish to the season.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:52 am 
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Yeah, really good race by Pinot, but I agree, the inability to produce a cohesive chase was annoying.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:52 am 
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Good for Pinaut

Nice seeing him reverse his Giro implosion at the end of the season.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:25 pm 
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I guess he also wanted to make a point for Cyril Guimard. But nice for Pinot to win a monument. I hope he gets some form on his next attempt at a GT.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:53 pm 
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TheFrog wrote:
I guess he also wanted to make a point for Cyril Guimard. But nice for Pinot to win a monument. I hope he gets some form on his next attempt at a GT.

to be fair on form 3 of them could have pretended to the leading spot.

Pity Alaphilippe blew up as with Bardet as remaining team mate he would have been in a great position to win it


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:32 pm 
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Laurent wrote:
TheFrog wrote:
I guess he also wanted to make a point for Cyril Guimard. But nice for Pinot to win a monument. I hope he gets some form on his next attempt at a GT.

to be fair on form 3 of them could have pretended to the leading spot.

Pity Alaphilippe blew up as with Bardet as remaining team mate he would have been in a great position to win it


I had my money on Valverde though, this suited him perfectly. He has a higher resistance than Alaphilippe and does a good job on longer climbs (and repeated climbs) as proven in GTs, and he is a fast finisher. Pity Alaphilippe couldn't keep up with him.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:20 pm 
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Just heard that Conor Dunne has signed for the Israeli Cycling Academy. Glad he's got himself sorted for another contract, and it seems his profile is getting a lot of exposure after the #NoGoTour. 👏


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:32 am 
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Sky bailing after next year

https://www.teamsky.com/article/sky-to- ... 019-season


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:46 am 
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Margin_Walker wrote:


That news will cheer up a lot of people but the outlook for pro cycling teams sustainability is looking really poor


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:46 am 
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Bullettyme wrote:
Just heard that Conor Dunne has signed for the Israeli Cycling Academy. Glad he's got himself sorted for another contract, and it seems his profile is getting a lot of exposure after the #NoGoTour. 👏


It appears that his contract at ICA is being funded by Delaney from Aqua Blue so keeping his promises where he can


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:47 am 
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Yep, seems a real struggle to get sponsors in these days.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:48 am 
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Seems McLaren (Yes F1 McLaren)are going to partner with the Bahrain cycling team to form a UCI pro team.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:09 am 
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Margin_Walker wrote:
Yep, seems a real struggle to get sponsors in these days.


Yet many will celebrate it's largest sponsors withdrawl. Better chance of winning in a race to the bottom.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:47 am 
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BlackMac wrote:
Margin_Walker wrote:
Yep, seems a real struggle to get sponsors in these days.


Yet many will celebrate it's largest sponsors withdrawl. Better chance of winning in a race to the bottom.


To be fair in a sport struggling to be believed to be clean I don't think Team Sky did anything except make matters worse in the end. If they disband it might give cycling another "fresh start with a clean slate" that it needs for sponsors to eventually roll back in in the medium to long term.

Also I'm under the impression their financial muscle was far greater than the competition? It might make the things more competitive for a while?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:52 am 
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great, the spoofer is back x(


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:11 am 
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blindcider wrote:
Bullettyme wrote:
Just heard that Conor Dunne has signed for the Israeli Cycling Academy. Glad he's got himself sorted for another contract, and it seems his profile is getting a lot of exposure after the #NoGoTour. 👏


It appears that his contract at ICA is being funded by Delaney from Aqua Blue so keeping his promises where he can


Didn't realise that, fair play. Had heard some grumbling recently about some pros on the team not being paid, which prompted their ex-chief to bail.

Edit: big news on Team Sky. Can't say I'll be too sad to see the team break up considering the good run they've had of things. Doubt any future sponsor will throw money at them the same way. Bernal to Movistar :P

Just shows the precarious nature of cycling teams. With BMC in trouble this year, and Sky the following year, who'd want to get into it.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:31 am 
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Bullettyme wrote:
blindcider wrote:
Bullettyme wrote:
Just heard that Conor Dunne has signed for the Israeli Cycling Academy. Glad he's got himself sorted for another contract, and it seems his profile is getting a lot of exposure after the #NoGoTour. 👏


It appears that his contract at ICA is being funded by Delaney from Aqua Blue so keeping his promises where he can


Didn't realise that, fair play. Had heard some grumbling recently about some pros on the team not being paid, which prompted their ex-chief to bail.

Edit: big news on Team Sky. Can't say I'll be too sad to see the team break up considering the good run they've had of things. Doubt any future sponsor will throw money at them the same way. Bernal to Movistar :P

Just shows the precarious nature of cycling teams. With BMC in trouble this year, and Sky the following year, who'd want to get into it.


I would have thought a company building to medium size globally, looking for more exposure would be a good fit given the reasonable coverage in Western Europe of Cycling. Does anybody know the size of the sponsor ship Team Sky had and what the smaller ones are?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:53 pm 
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Estimates vary, but Sky are thought to have a budget of about $40mil in U.S. money, ore about twice their nearest other competitors.

https://www.velonews.com/2018/07/tour-d ... age_473476


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:35 pm 
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iarmhiman wrote:
Seems McLaren (Yes F1 McLaren)are going to partner with the Bahrain cycling team to form a UCI pro team.


The Bahrain royal family's Mumtalakat investment company owns 56% of McLaren Group


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:40 pm 
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DOB wrote:
Estimates vary, but Sky are thought to have a budget of about $40mil in U.S. money, ore about twice their nearest other competitors.

https://www.velonews.com/2018/07/tour-d ... age_473476


These are 2016 estimates, but illustrate the differentials:-

Team Sky – €35m
Katusha – €32m
BMC – €28m
Tinkoff – €25m
Astana – €20m
Etixx-Quick Step – €18m
Movistar – €15m
Lotto-Soudal – €14m
LottoNL-Jumbo – €14m
Dimension Data – €13.5m
Orica-BikeExchange – €13m
Giant-Alpecin – €12.5m
Trek-Segafredo – €12m
Ag2r La Mondiale – €12m


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:21 pm 
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There must surely be someone in the Katusha organization who’s asking questions about why they’re bankrolling a team that just doesn’t win anything.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:57 pm 
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DOB wrote:
There must surely be someone in the Katusha organization who’s asking questions about why they’re bankrolling a team that just doesn’t win anything.

Yeah, it’s an outstandingly poor return.

Hopefully Sky pulling out can return a little parity to the rider market and spread the talent a little more.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:28 pm 
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It remains to be seen if a) Brailsford can bring in a sponsor with equally deep pockets and b) if he can’t, what level of success he can achieve with diminished resources.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:21 am 
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DOB wrote:
Estimates vary, but Sky are thought to have a budget of about $40mil in U.S. money, ore about twice their nearest other competitors.

https://www.velonews.com/2018/07/tour-d ... age_473476


Cheers.

DOB wrote:
There must surely be someone in the Katusha organization who’s asking questions about why they’re bankrolling a team that just doesn’t win anything.


I was thinking the same thing :lol:

I mean that's a lot of cash. It's not like Basketball or football where good players still bring brand exposure. That's a lot of cash to be sinking down in a not hugely exposed sport. Though of I wonder if Cycling is like Tennis or Golf, the size of the audience isn't essential, it's the type of audience the sport has which attracts sponsors.


Last edited by eldanielfire on Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:24 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
DOB wrote:
There must surely be someone in the Katusha organization who’s asking questions about why they’re bankrolling a team that just doesn’t win anything.

Yeah, it’s an outstandingly poor return.

Hopefully Sky pulling out can return a little parity to the rider market and spread the talent a little more.


Are some of their contracts long term? If Sky/former team called Sky can't get a sponsor, is there penalties for Brailsfords organisation for not being able to pay their riders contracts?


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:29 am 
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DOB wrote:
It remains to be seen if a) Brailsford can bring in a sponsor with equally deep pockets and b) if he can’t, what level of success he can achieve with diminished resources.


It's interesting, that for all his forward thinking and genuine development of his wards successes that he has never been in a position where he hasn't had all the resources he could possibly need. The "Marginal gains" philosophy (as derided as it is these days) is not one that always allows less well resourced teams in any sport to over come the better resourced ones as that usually occurs with the smaller team needing to invent a game changer no-one else has done yet.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:15 am 
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eldanielfire wrote:
DOB wrote:
It remains to be seen if a) Brailsford can bring in a sponsor with equally deep pockets and b) if he can’t, what level of success he can achieve with diminished resources.


It's interesting, that for all his forward thinking and genuine development of his wards successes that he has never been in a position where he hasn't had all the resources he could possibly need. The "Marginal gains" philosophy (as derided as it is these days) is not one that always allows less well resourced teams in any sport to over come the better resourced ones as that usually occurs with the smaller team needing to invent a game changer no-one else has done yet.


Sorry, really struggling to understand your point there.


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