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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 8:50 am 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
I reckon you'll find moving people to and from the airport will be one of the least compelling reasons for the super lads backing this. The real reason is the unassailable reality of Auckland's geography. There is going to be some serious squeeze going on in the isthmus over next hundred years, and that will be the type of timeframe they're looking at.

I could easily see another big east west line, and then another in the south east, and then one across the bridge over the next 35 years.


Yeah... I'd put money on some form of corridor development scheme being part of the reasoning behind this. I'm sure I read something about that last week, projected population growth and densities, that sort of thing. It makes sense and so does your added lines idea, perhaps even sooner.

NZ really doesn't sort of do mass transit very well, and it could. Increased density would be fine, albeit a bit of culture shock for people like your Christchurch natives say, who are used to kilometres of empty footpaths in the city centre.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 8:52 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
I reckon you'll find moving people to and from the airport will be one of the least compelling reasons for the super lads backing this. The real reason is the unassailable reality of Auckland's geography. There is going to be some serious squeeze going on in the isthmus over next hundred years, and that will be the type of timeframe they're looking at.

I could easily see another big east west line, and then another in the south east, and then one across the bridge over the next 35 years.


Yeah... I'd put money on some form of corridor development scheme being part of the reasoning behind this. I'm sure I read something about that last week, projected population growth and densities, that sort of thing. It makes sense and so does your added lines idea, perhaps even sooner.

NZ really doesn't sort of do mass transit very well, and it could. Increased density would be fine, albeit a bit of culture shock for people like your Christchurch natives say, who are used to kilometres of empty footpaths in the city centre.


Christchurch has vast potential as a livable low density city where the emptiness is a feature not a bug. Not everyone wants packed cities. Auckland is fcked by its very geography. As is Wellington. So NZ is going to have to have two high density cities, that is pretty much a given.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 8:54 am 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
I reckon you'll find moving people to and from the airport will be one of the least compelling reasons for the super lads backing this. The real reason is the unassailable reality of Auckland's geography. There is going to be some serious squeeze going on in the isthmus over next hundred years, and that will be the type of timeframe they're looking at.

I could easily see another big east west line, and then another in the south east, and then one across the bridge over the next 35 years.


Yeah... I'd put money on some form of corridor development scheme being part of the reasoning behind this. I'm sure I read something about that last week, projected population growth and densities, that sort of thing. It makes sense and so does your added lines idea, perhaps even sooner.

NZ really doesn't sort of do mass transit very well, and it could. Increased density would be fine, albeit a bit of culture shock for people like your Christchurch natives say, who are used to kilometres of empty footpaths in the city centre.


Christchurch has vast potential as a livable low density city where the emptiness is a feature not a bug. Not everyone wants packed cities. Auckland is fcked by its very geography. As is Wellington. So NZ is going to have to have two high density cities, that is pretty much a given.


yeah... I guess the drawback I see in ChCh is the sprawl, but I live in one of the most bizarrely sprawled cities on the planet.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 9:02 am 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
I reckon you'll find moving people to and from the airport will be one of the least compelling reasons for the super lads backing this. The real reason is the unassailable reality of Auckland's geography. There is going to be some serious squeeze going on in the isthmus over next hundred years, and that will be the type of timeframe they're looking at.

I could easily see another big east west line, and then another in the south east, and then one across the bridge over the next 35 years.


Yeah... I'd put money on some form of corridor development scheme being part of the reasoning behind this. I'm sure I read something about that last week, projected population growth and densities, that sort of thing. It makes sense and so does your added lines idea, perhaps even sooner.

NZ really doesn't sort of do mass transit very well, and it could. Increased density would be fine, albeit a bit of culture shock for people like your Christchurch natives say, who are used to kilometres of empty footpaths in the city centre.


Christchurch has vast potential as a livable low density city where the emptiness is a feature not a bug. Not everyone wants packed cities. Auckland is fcked by its very geography. As is Wellington. So NZ is going to have to have two high density cities, that is pretty much a given.


We are very different. Why are we even comparing a city in NZ to Perth and the f**king desolate Nullaboor plain?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 9:14 am 
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Image

So look at this map. You can see a line from Airport to Howick via Manukau, another from Howick across to Mt Roskill via Panmure, and another one across a new harbour crossing to Albany. I imagine the Super fund would love to own that and most importantly large amounts of high density development around the stations, probably on leasehold models.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 9:22 am 
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Seneca,

This is what is being planned under ATAP over the next 10 years.

A lot of these have been talked about since forever. Especially that Eastern busway (AMETI). That has been on the drawing board since the old Auckland and Manukau councils were around under John Banks and Barry Curtis.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 9:24 am 
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Potential beyond 2028. These are official diagrams from the ATAP. That second harbour crossing has been talked about since forever as well.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 9:25 am 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
I imagine the Super fund would love to own that and most importantly large amounts of high density development around the stations, probably on leasehold models.

Bingo.... that's the way to do it.

We should be consulting to these clowns. We'd have it wrapped up in 5 yrs, easy. Then we'd take Wellington.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 9:30 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
I imagine the Super fund would love to own that and most importantly large amounts of high density development around the stations, probably on leasehold models.

Bingo.... that's the way to do it.

We should be consulting to these clowns. We'd have it wrapped up in 5 yrs, easy. Then we'd take Wellington.


A lot of this high density stuff is being talked about by the Council planners, which is where funding models like value-capture taxes are being studied. Hong kong and Singapore are two cities being looked at. Of course, the govt is interested in more houses for their kiwibuid and Twyford is very keen on transport and housing being talked about in the same sentences.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 9:36 am 
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Auckman wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
I imagine the Super fund would love to own that and most importantly large amounts of high density development around the stations, probably on leasehold models.

Bingo.... that's the way to do it.

We should be consulting to these clowns. We'd have it wrapped up in 5 yrs, easy. Then we'd take Wellington.


A lot of this high density stuff is being talked about by the Council planners, which is where funding models like value-capture taxes are being studied. Hong kong and Singapore are two cities being looked at. Of course, the govt is interested in more houses for their kiwibuid and Twyford is very keen on transport and housing being talked about in the same sentences.


Seriously we are larger than the UK, HK and Singapore combined and we we are arguing this high density bullshit?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 9:37 am 
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Auckman wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
I imagine the Super fund would love to own that and most importantly large amounts of high density development around the stations, probably on leasehold models.

Bingo.... that's the way to do it.

We should be consulting to these clowns. We'd have it wrapped up in 5 yrs, easy. Then we'd take Wellington.


A lot of this high density stuff is being talked about by the Council planners, which is where funding models like value-capture taxes are being studied. Hong kong and Singapore are two cities being looked at. Of course, the govt is interested in more houses for their kiwibuid and Twyford is very keen on transport and housing being talked about in the same sentences.


there's a bit of a push on in Perth over it too... the Freo council are pretty progressive and managing something of a development boom here because the City of Fremantle desperately needs higher density to draw a better rates base, but also density leads to commercial confidence and greater liveability through social funding and all the natural activity generation and stimulation that comes with it. Other councils across Perth are being encouraged to look at it as well... and the train lines provide a natural framework to hang that density modelling off.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 9:40 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
I imagine the Super fund would love to own that and most importantly large amounts of high density development around the stations, probably on leasehold models.

Bingo.... that's the way to do it.

We should be consulting to these clowns. We'd have it wrapped up in 5 yrs, easy. Then we'd take Wellington.


Globus mode, I have had a few drinks with some of the investment side Super guys. They are seriously seriously smart. Really really smart.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 9:45 am 
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maxbox wrote:
Auckman wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
I imagine the Super fund would love to own that and most importantly large amounts of high density development around the stations, probably on leasehold models.

Bingo.... that's the way to do it.

We should be consulting to these clowns. We'd have it wrapped up in 5 yrs, easy. Then we'd take Wellington.


A lot of this high density stuff is being talked about by the Council planners, which is where funding models like value-capture taxes are being studied. Hong kong and Singapore are two cities being looked at. Of course, the govt is interested in more houses for their kiwibuid and Twyford is very keen on transport and housing being talked about in the same sentences.


Seriously we are larger than the UK, HK and Singapore combined and we we are arguing this high density bullshit?


I'm not sure you are quite on the same page here. The size of NZ is irrelevant. The geography of Auckland is the point. And a decision has been made that strategically NZ needs one large global scale city (2.5m +), so that means transport and high density living in Auckland needs to be dealt with.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 9:45 am 
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:thumbup: hard out (sad to say Sen my main man I am never on the point) but still the greater Auckland council has about 6000 sq km at their disposal, why the emphasis on high density?


Last edited by maxbox on Wed May 09, 2018 9:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 9:47 am 
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maxbox wrote:
Auckman wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
I imagine the Super fund would love to own that and most importantly large amounts of high density development around the stations, probably on leasehold models.

Bingo.... that's the way to do it.

We should be consulting to these clowns. We'd have it wrapped up in 5 yrs, easy. Then we'd take Wellington.


A lot of this high density stuff is being talked about by the Council planners, which is where funding models like value-capture taxes are being studied. Hong kong and Singapore are two cities being looked at. Of course, the govt is interested in more houses for their kiwibuid and Twyford is very keen on transport and housing being talked about in the same sentences.


Seriously we are larger than the UK, HK and Singapore combined and we we are arguing this high density bullshit?


True up to a point Maxy. There is still room to sprawl for Auckland but two harbours means Auckland's infrastructure will be concentrated to a core metropolitan area. We also need to eat so we can't expand down south too much because the farms down there feed the city. Sprawling just increases the need for more roads and motorways which increases the need for more cars which increases congestion because they all need to come into the isthmus and clog up the place.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 9:51 am 
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True true, so you suggest green belt zones? Aucks will absorb most of Northland within the nek 20 years :((


Last edited by maxbox on Wed May 09, 2018 9:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 9:52 am 
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maxbox wrote:
:thumbup: hard out (sad to say Sen my main man I am never on the point) but still the greater Auckland council has about 6000 sq km at their disposal, why the emphasis on high density?


Well, I guess that's another big old debate. But if the Super fund and this govt have gone HD then that's where its going.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 9:54 am 
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Edited. 8)

Anyways I will leave it to you intelligent folk now...


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 10:20 am 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
Image

So look at this map. You can see a line from Airport to Howick via Manukau, another from Howick across to Mt Roskill via Panmure, and another one across a new harbour crossing to Albany. I imagine the Super fund would love to own that and most importantly large amounts of high density development around the stations, probably on leasehold models.




Owning real estate does the Super fund no good


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 10:23 am 
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Why not deadduck?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 10:25 am 
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Well I suppose it does if they can gain some kind of income from it
But will that be more than the cost of the initial investment?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 10:33 am 
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deadduck wrote:
Well I suppose it does if they can gain some kind of income from it
But will that be more than the cost of the initial investment?


It's an investment like any other. Rental returns tend not to match dividends but you would expect some pretty decent capital gains. Anyway, it's sound investment practice to diversify. Real estate is generally considered to provide lower returns than shares but its far less volatile. You're going to want some if there's an economic downturn.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 10:02 pm 
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Good graphic:

Image


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 10:51 pm 
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Took me way too long to get that :blush:


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 10:57 pm 
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oh wow...

:lol: :lol:

spot on.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 11:06 pm 
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guy smiley wrote:
oh wow...

:lol: :lol:

spot on.


:lol:

Man, when I was a teenager almost every knife in the cutlery draw was blackened. The ones mum used for our dinner were the ones with plastic handles on one of those racks and we knew not to use those, but all the old solid metals ones.....

They figured it out eventually and ripped the shit out of me & my brother.

I also recall one time an element broke at a mate's flat - sparks flew everywhere & the fuse blew. Quite impressive.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 11:11 pm 
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Jay Cee Gee wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
oh wow...

:lol: :lol:

spot on.


:lol:

Man, when I was a teenager almost every knife in the cutlery draw was blackened. The ones mum used for our dinner were the ones with plastic handles on one of those racks and we knew not to use those, but all the old solid metals ones.....

They figured it out eventually and ripped the shit out of me & my brother.

I also recall one time an element broke at a mate's flat - sparks flew everywhere & the fuse blew. Quite impressive.

:lol:
Mayhem and havoc...

we used to scour the op shops for old bone handled cutlery. They were best... and glass milk bottles with the bottom carefully removed kept in the freezer were perfect..


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 11:15 pm 
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guy smiley wrote:
glass milk bottles with the bottom carefully removed kept in the freezer were perfect..



Yeah, nothing worse than inhaling toxic fumes when someone accidentally touched a plastic bottle with the knife....


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 11:20 pm 
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Good times, good times...

this has brought back memories that really should have been scrambled beyond repair. :thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 2:30 am 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
Good graphic:

Image


:lol: :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 2:58 am 
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Jay Cee Gee wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
oh wow...

:lol: :lol:

spot on.


:lol:

Man, when I was a teenager almost every knife in the cutlery draw was blackened. The ones mum used for our dinner were the ones with plastic handles on one of those racks and we knew not to use those, but all the old solid metals ones.....

They figured it out eventually and ripped the shit out of me & my brother.

I also recall one time an element broke at a mate's flat - sparks flew everywhere & the fuse blew. Quite impressive.


Man I can't believe you did that in your mum's house. My flat was as you described but never did that shit at home.

Plus we had a gas flame stove so no exploding elements.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 3:14 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
Good times, good times...

this has brought back memories that really should have been scrambled beyond repair. :thumbup:


Did you guys get Solid in NZ?

Seems to be as rare as rocking-horse shit in Oz


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 3:22 am 
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booji boy wrote:
Jay Cee Gee wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
oh wow...

:lol: :lol:

spot on.


:lol:

Man, when I was a teenager almost every knife in the cutlery draw was blackened. The ones mum used for our dinner were the ones with plastic handles on one of those racks and we knew not to use those, but all the old solid metals ones.....

They figured it out eventually and ripped the shit out of me & my brother.

I also recall one time an element broke at a mate's flat - sparks flew everywhere & the fuse blew. Quite impressive.


Man I can't believe you did that in your mum's house. My flat was as you described but never did that shit at home.

Plus we had a gas flame stove so no exploding elements.


Yeah, I got away with a bit of shit in my late teens - I blame my older brother. Mum & Dad were very much creatures of habit and once they'd gone to bed could be relied on to stay there till morning so we didn't really worry about getting caught.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 4:59 am 
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Pat the Ex Mat wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
Good times, good times...

this has brought back memories that really should have been scrambled beyond repair. :thumbup:


Did you guys get Solid in NZ?

Seems to be as rare as rocking-horse shit in Oz


What's solid? :blush:


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 1:42 am 
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There was nearly an indecent exposure at our Minister's office this morning. The moral of the story is if you drop a pen on the way to meet with the Minister's staff, leave it. Otherwise like me you could be shuffling down Lambton Quay to buy an emergency pair of trousers, covering your front with a laptop but wondering about the view from behind, and arriving a few minutes late to your meeting.

On the plus side measuring my inner thigh would have been easy and the elderly male shop keeper asked if I played sport while measuring my buttocks :smug:.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 1:52 am 
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JB1981 wrote:
There was nearly an indecent exposure at our Minister's office this morning. The moral of the story is if you drop a pen on the way to meet with the Minister's staff, leave it. Otherwise like me you could be shuffling down Lambton Quay to buy an emergency pair of trousers, covering your front with a laptop but wondering about the view from behind, and arriving a few minutes late to your meeting.

On the plus side measuring my inner thigh would have been easy and the elderly male shop keeper asked if I played sport while measuring my buttocks :smug:.


:lol: there’s a few of us public servants on here aren’t there? More importantly, why did you have a pen and a computer? Wasteful use of taxpayer dollars!


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 2:10 am 
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The pen was practical and the computer was for show. If I'm honest I didn't even open it so it was more of a status symbol than a practical device.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 3:18 am 
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maxbox wrote:
Pat the Ex Mat wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
Good times, good times...

this has brought back memories that really should have been scrambled beyond repair. :thumbup:


Did you guys get Solid in NZ?

Seems to be as rare as rocking-horse shit in Oz


What's solid? :blush:


#


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 3:53 am 
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JB1981 wrote:
The pen was practical and the computer was for show. If I'm honest I didn't even open it so it was more of a status symbol than a practical device.

You should get a large Ipad Pro, Apple pencil and keyboard, that would be more of status symbol! ;)


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 4:18 am 
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Pat the Ex Mat wrote:
maxbox wrote:
Pat the Ex Mat wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
Good times, good times...

this has brought back memories that really should have been scrambled beyond repair. :thumbup:


Did you guys get Solid in NZ?

Seems to be as rare as rocking-horse shit in Oz


What's solid? :blush:


#


ah... missed getting back to this most vital of questions.

the answer is no, and it's the same situation as Oz... doesn't seem to be such a favoured mode of consumption, basically. I've no idea why but suspect it might have something to do with the extra work involved in production and the added risk of discovery as a result. We used to roll heads up in tight balls and let the knives do the work on that.


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