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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:32 am 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:

I suspect chloe has enviable time management skills. She has certainly packed in a lot in a small space of time. Her simple but elegant dress sense suggests she has that rare ability of being naturally organised. I think she joined the wrong party but it got her straight into parliament. I could see her switching to Labour one day. Future pm material possibly.

Golly is dopey as fck but very entertaining. Probably a stayer too.


Despite being patronising as fudge :lol: I think you're right on Swarbrick being future PM material. I think James Shaw sees this in her, and it's why she was bumped up the list and she's been pushed to the front a lot. She will likely be loyal and only switch if the Greens go down, which isn't unlikely. She was talked up as a possible leader during the Turei brain explosion saga.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:33 am 
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Baby Neve takes hollywood:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainmen ... d=12138073


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:47 am 
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Santa wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:
MMP has certainly made it more difficult for governments to push through their agenda though, as no one has had an outright majority. The closest was when national could use Act or UF/Maori to get a majority.

Some may see this as a weakness, others see it as a strength. Kind of depends on your attitude to the agenda.


The benefit of an agenda and the power to push it through is policy coherence and integration. The flipside is a hodge podge of special interests, comparative inefficiency
and potentially increased policy contradiction.

There are benefits to inefficiency though.


This:
Quote:
a hodge podge of special interests, comparative inefficiency
and potentially increased policy contradiction.


is not the flip side of:
Quote:
The benefit of an agenda and the power to push it through is policy coherence and integration


It would be the flip side of; broader representation, change at a more incremental pace, more negotiation before enactment and collaborative rather than singular vision(s)


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:01 am 
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AD345 wrote:
Santa wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:
MMP has certainly made it more difficult for governments to push through their agenda though, as no one has had an outright majority. The closest was when national could use Act or UF/Maori to get a majority.

Some may see this as a weakness, others see it as a strength. Kind of depends on your attitude to the agenda.


The benefit of an agenda and the power to push it through is policy coherence and integration. The flipside is a hodge podge of special interests, comparative inefficiency
and potentially increased policy contradiction.

There are benefits to inefficiency though.


This:
Quote:
a hodge podge of special interests, comparative inefficiency
and potentially increased policy contradiction.


is not the flip side of:
Quote:
The benefit of an agenda and the power to push it through is policy coherence and integration


It would be the flip side of; broader representation, change at a more incremental pace, more negotiation before enactment and collaborative rather than singular vision(s)


Yeah I know. Used the wrong word. Typing on phone between tube stations.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:11 am 
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Seems like the Ravensdown superphosphate production line is toast.
I bet it was Greens voters that did it.

This will really fudge the dairy farmers in about 12 months time


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:41 am 
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Whopping $5.5 billion surplus announced.



...Teachers will want some of that.... :nod:


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:13 am 
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Location: A vacant lot next to a pile of rubble
And every other civil servant.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:43 am 
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Still need those fuel taxes though


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:41 am 
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Meanwhile Labours pre election 40,000 HOMELESS CRISISSSSS!! AAAGH!!"

Turns out to be 800 in Auckland

Or 0.05% of Aucklands population

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zeal ... d.amp.html

:lol: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:05 am 
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It’s a relatively recent issue and I don’t think 800 is anything to sniff at. It would be good if we had previous data to see what trends exist, if any.

And I don’t believe Labour ever said there were 40k homeless people did they?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:15 am 
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Wilderbeast wrote:
It’s a relatively recent issue and I don’t think 800 is anything to sniff at. It would be good if we had previous data to see what trends exist, if any.

And I don’t believe Labour ever said there were 40k homeless people did they?



Yeah they did

Quote:
Twyford believed the crisis was for all of New Zealand, not just those without homes.

"It did seem quite grudging. If there are 40,000 people who are homeless surely that is a crisis for the country and something that should concern all of us."


https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politi ... s-for-some


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:25 am 
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Dark wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:
It’s a relatively recent issue and I don’t think 800 is anything to sniff at. It would be good if we had previous data to see what trends exist, if any.

And I don’t believe Labour ever said there were 40k homeless people did they?



Yeah they did

Quote:
Twyford believed the crisis was for all of New Zealand, not just those without homes.

"It did seem quite grudging. If there are 40,000 people who are homeless surely that is a crisis for the country and something that should concern all of us."


https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politi ... s-for-some

Technically ;) he didn't say that in that particular quote.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:30 am 
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Wasn't the 40000 figure one that included people without a home of their own, but staying with friends or family?

Edit: Typo


Last edited by Fat Old Git on Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:32 am 
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Dark wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:
It’s a relatively recent issue and I don’t think 800 is anything to sniff at. It would be good if we had previous data to see what trends exist, if any.

And I don’t believe Labour ever said there were 40k homeless people did they?



Yeah they did

Quote:
Twyford believed the crisis was for all of New Zealand, not just those without homes.

"It did seem quite grudging. If there are 40,000 people who are homeless surely that is a crisis for the country and something that should concern all of us."


https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politi ... s-for-some


I can’t load stuff for some reason but assume he is referring to people who don’t have a place to call home. That measure includes people bunking with family and friends. Not the same.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:37 am 
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Wilderbeast wrote:
Dark wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:
It’s a relatively recent issue and I don’t think 800 is anything to sniff at. It would be good if we had previous data to see what trends exist, if any.

And I don’t believe Labour ever said there were 40k homeless people did they?



Yeah they did

Quote:
Twyford believed the crisis was for all of New Zealand, not just those without homes.

"It did seem quite grudging. If there are 40,000 people who are homeless surely that is a crisis for the country and something that should concern all of us."


https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politi ... s-for-some


I can’t load stuff for some reason but assume he is referring to people who don’t have a place to call home. That measure includes people bunking with family and friends. Not the same.


Aah. You are right

I forgot that they called people over 20 who still lived at home and retired people who downsize and move into the self contained unit out the back to help look after the grandkids homeless


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:10 am 
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There would be people living in garages, whole families in some instances, paying rent to the TENANT of that rental house. I personally knew a couple of people in this situation, although one couple had their kids sleep in the overcrowded house while they slept in the converted garage, paying $400 to the tenant of the house. What a crook that tenant was; happened to be one of his relatives as well. SMH.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:21 am 
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Do the landlords or their agents not do properly inspections?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:18 pm 
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Dark wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:
Dark wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:
It’s a relatively recent issue and I don’t think 800 is anything to sniff at. It would be good if we had previous data to see what trends exist, if any.

And I don’t believe Labour ever said there were 40k homeless people did they?



Yeah they did

Quote:
Twyford believed the crisis was for all of New Zealand, not just those without homes.

"It did seem quite grudging. If there are 40,000 people who are homeless surely that is a crisis for the country and something that should concern all of us."


https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politi ... s-for-some


I can’t load stuff for some reason but assume he is referring to people who don’t have a place to call home. That measure includes people bunking with family and friends. Not the same.


Aah. You are right

I forgot that they called people over 20 who still lived at home and retired people who downsize and move into the self contained unit out the back to help look after the grandkids homeless


People living at home are only labelled homeless if they are actively looking for accommodation and staying at home is a temporary arrangement between homes. The retired people would not be counted. That unit is their home.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:27 pm 
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Wilderbeast wrote:
Dark wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:
Dark wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:
It’s a relatively recent issue and I don’t think 800 is anything to sniff at. It would be good if we had previous data to see what trends exist, if any.

And I don’t believe Labour ever said there were 40k homeless people did they?



Yeah they did

Quote:
Twyford believed the crisis was for all of New Zealand, not just those without homes.

"It did seem quite grudging. If there are 40,000 people who are homeless surely that is a crisis for the country and something that should concern all of us."


https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politi ... s-for-some


I can’t load stuff for some reason but assume he is referring to people who don’t have a place to call home. That measure includes people bunking with family and friends. Not the same.


Aah. You are right

I forgot that they called people over 20 who still lived at home and retired people who downsize and move into the self contained unit out the back to help look after the grandkids homeless


People living at home are only labelled homeless if they are actively looking for accommodation and staying at home is a temporary arrangement between homes. The retired people would not be counted. That unit is their home.


Still seems a stretch calling them homeless.

So if I move back to Auckland and stay with my sister or friends until I can find rental accommodation I'm classified as homeless. Ridiculous!


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:36 pm 
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We sold our house and I then lived with my inlaws for a year while we built. I sometimes wished I was homeless but didn't realise by that definition I technically was.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:40 pm 
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JB1981 wrote:
We sold our house and I then lived with my inlaws for a year while we built. I sometimes wished I was homeless but didn't realise by that definition I technically was.


My sister did just that, twice. My poor homeless family. :(

Do we qualify for any benefits? :idea:


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:06 pm 
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More examples of that famous empathy of the hard right .


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:27 pm 
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Wilderbeast wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:

I suspect chloe has enviable time management skills. She has certainly packed in a lot in a small space of time. Her simple but elegant dress sense suggests she has that rare ability of being naturally organised. I think she joined the wrong party but it got her straight into parliament. I could see her switching to Labour one day. Future pm material possibly.

Golly is dopey as fck but very entertaining. Probably a stayer too.


Despite being patronising as fudge :lol: I think you're right on Swarbrick being future PM material. I think James Shaw sees this in her, and it's why she was bumped up the list and she's been pushed to the front a lot. She will likely be loyal and only switch if the Greens go down, which isn't unlikely. She was talked up as a possible leader during the Turei brain explosion saga.


Yeah piss off mate, she is a fcuking Yank :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:26 pm 
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Fat Old Git wrote:
Do the landlords or their agents not do properly inspections?


yes I'd expect so. I guess it would be easy enough to put mattresses away while everyone is at work/school.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:36 pm 
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JB1981 wrote:
We sold our house and I then lived with my inlaws for a year while we built. I sometimes wished I was homeless but didn't realise by that definition I technically was.


There are two definitions. One used in determining the housing shortage, one for those slumming it on the streets. Very different measures though not mutually exclusive.

Edit - if you are building then you wouldn’t qualify as you’re not actively “looking”. I think this is how it works.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:08 am 
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eugenius wrote:
More examples of that famous empathy of the hard right .


There are plenty of political scientists out there, even those from the left, who would argue that being motivated by empathy in politics is not necessarily good and in many cases is a bad thing


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:08 am 
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eugenius wrote:
More examples of that famous empathy of the hard right .


Hard right? :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:05 am 
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deadduck wrote:
eugenius wrote:
More examples of that famous empathy of the hard right .


There are plenty of political scientists out there, even those from the left, who would argue that being motivated by empathy in politics is not necessarily good and in many cases is a bad thing


Yes, politicians abusing pharmac is a good example.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:13 am 
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booji boy wrote:
eugenius wrote:
More examples of that famous empathy of the hard right .


Hard right? :lol:


It's called egocentric projection. Eug assumes most people share his world view because he is normal. Everyone does it to some extent. It's why he calls moderates "hard right", because he doesn't recognise his own far left values as anything other than somewhere near the middle.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:01 am 
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deadduck wrote:
booji boy wrote:
eugenius wrote:
More examples of that famous empathy of the hard right .


Hard right? :lol:


It's called egocentric projection. Eug assumes most people share his world view because he is normal. Everyone does it to some extent. It's why he calls moderates "hard right", because he doesn't recognise his own far left values as anything other than somewhere near the middle.

Now you're being as stupid as he was.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:21 am 
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;)


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:47 am 
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deadduck wrote:
;)

:D


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:17 am 
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I would put Sonny most definitely on the further right of the political spectrum wouldn’t you ?

And tho our resident Mr neutral DD might pretend , he’s an ACT supporter and unceasing apologist for all things National at the expense of any other perspective.

As a moderate social Democrat I’m probably closer to the middle than either of them , which is really saying something.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:09 am 
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I am not an ACT supporter :lol:


Whatever gave you that impression


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:26 am 
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The middle ... good lord :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:35 am 
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Let's have a battle for who can claim the centre ground. Any nominees? FOG or Wilderbeast seem most centric to me, but the centre is always different depending on the beholder.

If not, let's make a political spectrum with the representatives here.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:23 am 
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We can always do the old political compass
Image


Even though it seems to place the NZ parties way too far right. No way I should be sitting next to the Greens. I'd hate to see what kind of psycho answers you'd have to put in to get close to where ACT are
Image


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:35 am 
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Yeah, nah. That doesn't look right. Far too left-leaning the results on the old political compass. I come out as far left as you can be and about half way to Libertarian. I do not believe I'm further left than Hone Harawira or Marama Davidson.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:18 am 
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There's a real chance that entire site has been set up in an attempt to convince undecided voters to vote for left wing groups. This kind of social engineering is more common than ever these days.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:22 am 
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Classic - 😂


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