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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:28 am 
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You would rate Crusher Collins higher than bridges? Collins was complicit in that whole scandal involving her hubby and that Chinese company. Lady is a crook


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:34 am 
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maxbox wrote:
You would rate Crusher Collins higher than bridges? Collins was complicit in that whole scandal involving her hubby and that Chinese company. Lady is a crook


Didn't hurt Helen Clark.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:10 am 
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:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:17 am 
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Didn't Aunty Helen pretend to sign some art work and then sell them off? Something along those lines. She's hardly clean. Not to mention she fucken started the housing crisis.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:06 am 
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I didn't always, but I quite like Judith.


I did when she was at university. Fark she was hot. 9/10


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:12 am 
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booji boy wrote:
maxbox wrote:
You would rate Crusher Collins higher than bridges? Collins was complicit in that whole scandal involving her hubby and that Chinese company. Lady is a crook


Didn't hurt Helen Clark.


I doubt she had a Chinese businessman as a hubby somehow. Are you talking about the little airport scandal and her hubby that nobody got any info on - wonder if it was true or another National stitchup? If you are moaning about the art thing, that's not even worth a single breath of indignation on

Being a crook didn't hurt Bill English either remember.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:22 am 
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Enzedder wrote:
Quote:
I didn't always, but I quite like Judith.


I did when she was at university. Fark she was hot. 9/10


We have rules Sir!

Spoiler: show
Image


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:30 am 
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kiwinoz wrote:
Enzedder wrote:
Quote:
I didn't always, but I quite like Judith.


I did when she was at university. Fark she was hot. 9/10


We have rules Sir!

Spoiler: show
Image


I tried - what did you google to find her


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:38 am 
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Enzedder wrote:
kiwinoz wrote:
Enzedder wrote:
Quote:
I didn't always, but I quite like Judith.


I did when she was at university. Fark she was hot. 9/10


We have rules Sir!

Spoiler: show
Image


I tried - what did you google to find her

He probably had to go to the dark web :twisted:


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:41 am 
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Wignu wrote:
Enzedder wrote:
I tried - what did you google to find her

He probably had to go to the dark web :twisted:


In his wank bank more like (it's what I've just done)


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:01 am 
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True Blue wrote:
Didn't Aunty Helen pretend to sign some art work and then sell them off? Something along those lines. She's hardly clean.

Good grief. Clark signed a blank canvas, like many MPs and celebrities, and someone daubed some paint on it. The "artwork" was auctioned off for a charity. Some silly old Dutchman bought the "painting" thinking he'd make some money on it in the future. The idea that he was actually making a donation to a charity seemed to escape him.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:09 am 
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maxbox wrote:
You would rate Crusher Collins higher than bridges? Collins was complicit in that whole scandal involving her hubby and that Chinese company. Lady is a crook


She also came out the worst on dirty politics, being pretty tight with that fucktard Slater. Collins is a nasty piece of work who I want nowhere near the seat of power. Bridges is infinitely better.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:18 am 
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Wilderbeast wrote:
maxbox wrote:
You would rate Crusher Collins higher than bridges? Collins was complicit in that whole scandal involving her hubby and that Chinese company. Lady is a crook


She also came out the worst on dirty politics, being pretty tight with that fucktard Slater. Collins is a nasty piece of work who I want nowhere near the seat of power. Bridges is infinitely better.

Collins is a hideously corrupt person:

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/politics/jud ... s-minister


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:18 am 
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Enzedder wrote:
kiwinoz wrote:
Enzedder wrote:
Quote:
I didn't always, but I quite like Judith.


I did when she was at university. Fark she was hot. 9/10


We have rules Sir!

Spoiler: show
Image


I tried - what did you google to find her


I used DDG and just her name but interestingly now that picture does not come up. Poor use of the internet does not excuse violations of Rule 1.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:50 am 
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Waka Nathan wrote:
True Blue wrote:
Didn't Aunty Helen pretend to sign some art work and then sell them off? Something along those lines. She's hardly clean.

Good grief. Clark signed a blank canvas, like many MPs and celebrities, and someone daubed some paint on it. The "artwork" was auctioned off for a charity. Some silly old Dutchman bought the "painting" thinking he'd make some money on it in the future. The idea that he was actually making a donation to a charity seemed to escape him.


I'm not sure committing fraud for charity is really a reasonable excuse. If it was marketed as a painting by the PM and that was what the guy believed he was paying for as a result then that really isn't ok. It might be low level compared to what crusher was accused of ( and I admit I can't remember the details now, or if she ever actually convicted of anything?), but wrong is wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:58 am 
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Quote:
but wrong is wrong.


:lol: it's right up there with pony tail pulling


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:05 am 
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Did anyone else listen to question time today?

Chris Hipkins acted like a twelve year old having a tantrum when Mallard gave 10 extra free supplementary questions a day for 3 weeks to National because of his crap ability to do his job.

It was hilarious


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:11 am 
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Fat Old Git wrote:
Waka Nathan wrote:
True Blue wrote:
Didn't Aunty Helen pretend to sign some art work and then sell them off? Something along those lines. She's hardly clean.

Good grief. Clark signed a blank canvas, like many MPs and celebrities, and someone daubed some paint on it. The "artwork" was auctioned off for a charity. Some silly old Dutchman bought the "painting" thinking he'd make some money on it in the future. The idea that he was actually making a donation to a charity seemed to escape him.


I'm not sure committing fraud for charity is really a reasonable excuse. If it was marketed as a painting by the PM and that was what the guy believed he was paying for as a result then that really isn't ok. It might be low level compared to what crusher was accused of ( and I admit I can't remember the details now, or if she ever actually convicted of anything?), but wrong is wrong.

Clark didn't "commit fraud for charity"; she signed a blank canvas at the behest of the charity. Only a complete fcking idiot would equate that non event with the behavior of Collins--behaviour that caused Key to sack her.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:14 am 
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Enzedder wrote:
Quote:
but wrong is wrong.


:lol: it's right up there with pony tail pulling


So you agree with me then?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:20 am 
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Waka Nathan wrote:
Fat Old Git wrote:
Waka Nathan wrote:
True Blue wrote:
Didn't Aunty Helen pretend to sign some art work and then sell them off? Something along those lines. She's hardly clean.

Good grief. Clark signed a blank canvas, like many MPs and celebrities, and someone daubed some paint on it. The "artwork" was auctioned off for a charity. Some silly old Dutchman bought the "painting" thinking he'd make some money on it in the future. The idea that he was actually making a donation to a charity seemed to escape him.


I'm not sure committing fraud for charity is really a reasonable excuse. If it was marketed as a painting by the PM and that was what the guy believed he was paying for as a result then that really isn't ok. It might be low level compared to what crusher was accused of ( and I admit I can't remember the details now, or if she ever actually convicted of anything?), but wrong is wrong.

Clark didn't "commit fraud for charity"; she signed a blank canvas at the behest of the charity. Only a complete fcking idiot would equate that non event with the behavior of Collins--behaviour that caused Key to sack her.


Was it marketed as a painting by Helen Clark, or a painting signed by Helen Clark? I'm not equating it with the behavior of Collins either, in fact I've specifically pointed out that it's low level compared to that IF it was the the first case. Which iirc was how it was reported at the time.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:21 am 
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Enzedder wrote:
Quote:
but wrong is wrong.


:lol: it's right up there with pony tail pulling


Not really

Key's was being openly an idiot

Clark's was being openly dishonest


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:28 am 
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Saw there was a petition raised to rename the country to "Aotearoa New Zealand"

How would people feel about that change


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:29 am 
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Fat Old Git wrote:
Waka Nathan wrote:
Fat Old Git wrote:
Waka Nathan wrote:
True Blue wrote:
Didn't Aunty Helen pretend to sign some art work and then sell them off? Something along those lines. She's hardly clean.

Good grief. Clark signed a blank canvas, like many MPs and celebrities, and someone daubed some paint on it. The "artwork" was auctioned off for a charity. Some silly old Dutchman bought the "painting" thinking he'd make some money on it in the future. The idea that he was actually making a donation to a charity seemed to escape him.


I'm not sure committing fraud for charity is really a reasonable excuse. If it was marketed as a painting by the PM and that was what the guy believed he was paying for as a result then that really isn't ok. It might be low level compared to what crusher was accused of ( and I admit I can't remember the details now, or if she ever actually convicted of anything?), but wrong is wrong.

Clark didn't "commit fraud for charity"; she signed a blank canvas at the behest of the charity. Only a complete fcking idiot would equate that non event with the behavior of Collins--behaviour that caused Key to sack her.


Was it marketed as a painting by Helen Clark, or a painting signed by Helen Clark? I'm not equating it with the behavior of Collins either, in fact I've specifically pointed out that it's low level compared to that IF it was the the first case. Which iirc was how it was reported at the time.


I can't remember the precise context. Was it Clark being dishonest, or was it the charity doing the selling and marketing?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:32 am 
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Gordon Bennett wrote:
Saw there was a petition raised to rename the country to "Aotearoa New Zealand"

How would people feel about that change


Not a fan but I’m conservative in things like this. Kind of feel if we name change we should drop NZ altogether tho.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:34 am 
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Fat Old Git wrote:
Enzedder wrote:
Quote:
but wrong is wrong.


:lol: it's right up there with pony tail pulling


So you agree with me then?


Actually no, sexual harassment was a lot worse.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:35 am 
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Dark wrote:
Enzedder wrote:
Quote:
but wrong is wrong.


:lol: it's right up there with pony tail pulling


Not really

Key's was being openly an idiot

Clark's was being openly dishonest


Nope - as stated above, Key's was sexual harassment.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:41 am 
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Enzedder wrote:
Dark wrote:
Enzedder wrote:
Quote:
but wrong is wrong.


:lol: it's right up there with pony tail pulling


Not really

Key's was being openly an idiot

Clark's was being openly dishonest


Nope - as stated above, Key's was sexual harassment.


No it wasn't

At a stretch it could be minor assault, which would be thrown out, or harrassment, as you would have to prove it was sexually motivated and he wouldn't have done his weirdo thing if it was a bloke with a pony tail, to add sexual.

Clark knowing allowed a painting to be sold at auction advertised as being painted by her.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:41 am 
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Enzedder wrote:
Fat Old Git wrote:
Enzedder wrote:
Quote:
but wrong is wrong.


:lol: it's right up there with pony tail pulling


So you agree with me then?


Actually no, sexual harassment was a lot worse.


But both are still wrong yes? Or are you willing to excuse sexual harassment of we can find something that even worse? Perhaps murder? Although that might be OK if we can find someone guilty of mass murder...


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:44 am 
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Fat Old Git wrote:
Enzedder wrote:
Fat Old Git wrote:
Enzedder wrote:
Quote:
but wrong is wrong.


:lol: it's right up there with pony tail pulling


So you agree with me then?


Actually no, sexual harassment was a lot worse.


But both are still wrong yes? Or are you willing to excuse sexual harassment of we can find something that even worse? Perhaps murder? Although that might be OK if we can find someone guilty of mass murder...


I'm not willing to excuse it. It was idiotic.

But it wasn't sexual harassment


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:45 am 
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No, but some degrees of wrong (e.g. Bill English's rorts or the PM sexually harassing a waitress) deserve more ink than the Great Fake Art affair. She still took a hell of a lot of flak for that and it was deserved. Put off every PM from doing art ever again and charity missed out.

Luckily, waitresses ponytails are also safe.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:47 am 
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Gordon Bennett wrote:

I can't remember the precise context. Was it Clark being dishonest, or was it the charity doing the selling and marketing?


I can't remember either which is why I said "if" in my first post, and then asked the question in my second.

But it's hard to see how being shown a painting signed by a celeb wouldn't be misleading at best.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:48 am 
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Enzedder wrote:
No, but some degrees of wrong (e.g. Bill English's rorts or the PM sexually harassing a waitress) deserve more ink than the Great Fake Art affair. She still took a hell of a lot of flak for that and it was deserved. Put off every PM from doing art ever again and charity missed out.

Luckily, waitresses ponytails are also safe.


So you are agreeing with me. :)


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:49 am 
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Enzedder wrote:
No, but some degrees of wrong (e.g. Bill English's rorts or the PM sexually harassing a waitress) deserve more ink than the Great Fake Art affair. She still took a hell of a lot of flak for that and it was deserved. Put off every PM from doing art ever again and charity missed out.

Luckily, waitresses ponytails are also safe.



Not really

Key

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/70887869/null

Ardern

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/arti ... d=12090742


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:54 am 
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Gordon Bennett wrote:

I can't remember the precise context. Was it Clark being dishonest, or was it the charity doing the selling and marketing?


I post this without comment - just providing a summary of the situation.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/arti ... id=2050628

Quote:
One of the dubious daubs at the centre of the Paintergate scandal was destroyed before police announced yesterday that they would not charge the Prime Minister.

They ruled that Helen Clark committed forgery when she signed a painting someone else had created, but said prosecuting her was not in the public interest.

The police report also revealed that after the scandal became public, Labour Party member Simon Mitchell purchased the painting from Henricus van Dijk, who had bought it at the original auction in 1999 for $1000.

Mr Mitchell paid $5000 for the artwork and gave it to Helen Clark's Auckland executive assistant, Joan Caulfield.

Mrs Caulfield asked Helen Clark what she should do with the painting and was told to do whatever she liked. She and her husband burned the canvas on May 6, several weeks after the scandal became public.

In the investigation, police considered whether Mrs Caulfield, her husband and Mr Mitchell had attempted to obstruct justice by obtaining and destroying the painting but found that there was insufficient evidence to charge them.

"It might be argued that these three could or should have known of the possibility of the police investigation," said the report.

"They appear to have been motivated by a desire to get the painting out of the possession or control of Mr van Dijk, whom they saw as generating negative publicity."

Mrs Caulfield did not return calls from the Weekend Herald yesterday.

A spokesman for Helen Clark said she had not been aware that the painting had been destroyed.

It took police more than two months to decide whether to charge the Prime Minister over the Paintergate scandal, which erupted in April when it was revealed that she had signed a painting by a Paraparaumu artist and passed it off as her own.

The painting was given to the charity Save Animals from Exploitation in 1999, when Helen Clark was Leader of the Opposition, for a celebrity auction, where it sold for $1000.

At a press conference in Wellington yesterday, Police Commissioner Rob Robinson revealed that he had decided against prosecution, although the officer who investigated had established that a prima facie case of forgery could be made against Helen Clark.

Under the Crimes Act 1961, forgery carries a maximum penalty of 10 years in prison.

Mr Robinson said police had also found the same charge, plus another for the "uttering of a forged document", could be laid against Dawn Bush, a former staff member who commissioned the painting for Helen Clark.

But Mr Robinson said it was not in the public interest to charge the two women because their offending was at the lower end of the scale, they were motivated by a desire to assist a charity, had made no personal gain and did not realise the significance of their actions.

It was also likely that if they had been charged, the court would have discharged them without conviction.

Mr Robinson said he made his decision after being "strongly counselled" against prosecution by the Solicitor-General.

The Police Commissioner refused to answer questions about his decision yesterday, including how much the investigation cost.

The Prime Minister told reporters on the campaign trail in Hamilton that she was pleased the matter was at an end.

"The police have done their job as they see it. I've apologised in the past for an error of judgment."

Helen Clark said she did not believe the issue of the painting or the release of the police report had damaged Labour's election chances.

"Absolutely not. I have found the general public is extremely understanding on this and understanding of the fact that all I ever sought to do was help a charity."

National Party leader Bill English said the investigation was thorough and objective and he accepted the decision not to prosecute.

But he said if Helen Clark had taken responsibility for her actions and apologised when the concerns were first revealed, it would not have become such a big issue.

Act leader Richard Prebble said the police decision would leave the public wondering whether there was one law for Prime Ministers and another for everyone else.

But Helen Clark said this was "certainly not" the case - police often used their discretion not to prosecute.

The Wellington anaesthetist who complained to the police about Helen Clark told the Weekend Herald he was satisfied his concerns had been dealt with. Graham Sharpe wrote a letter of complaint on April 17 because he was concerned that the Prime Minister was attempting to brush off the concerns about her behaviour. Yesterday, he said he was not surprised at the decision not to prosecute.

In his letter, Dr Sharpe asked police to establish whether an offence had been committed and whether Helen Clark should be prosecuted.

Both questions had been answered in a thorough and complete investigation, he said.

Dr Sharpe said he did not regret laying the complaint, but he had not been prepared for the reaction it had generated.

Lauren Fouhy, the ghost artist behind the painting, is relieved at the decision, but distraught that her work has been destroyed.

"The decision is the obvious thing to have happen. I guess it will still jump up and bite her on the campaign trail, but at least she won't have a criminal record from it.

"I'm just cut to the quick that my beautiful, beautiful painting has been destroyed."

Dawn Bush, the former member of Helen Clark's staff who commissioned the artwork, wants to put the issue behind her, but said she was happy with what she called the best outcome.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:03 am 
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Hmmm. At best, that's showing a level of naïveté that you'd expect not to see in a PM.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:06 am 
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Gordon Bennett wrote:
Saw there was a petition raised to rename the country to "Aotearoa New Zealand"

How would people feel about that change


Aotearoa as a name for all of NZ is a modern invention. New Zealand is a much older name.

I'm not opposed to changing the name but it should be an accurate tradition, and not something that feels forced for the sake of bilingualism. It feels a little bit token.

The reality is there probably is not a suitable name and in that case it may be best to not change.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:12 am 
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deadduck wrote:
Gordon Bennett wrote:
Saw there was a petition raised to rename the country to "Aotearoa New Zealand"

How would people feel about that change


Aotearoa as a name for all of NZ is a modern invention. New Zealand is a much older name.

I'm not opposed to changing the name but it should be an accurate tradition, and not something that feels forced for the sake of bilingualism. It feels a little bit token.

The reality is there probably is not a suitable name and in that case it may be best to not change.


I think the calls shows how depressingly mono-lingual we are as a nation. Lots of countries have names that change depending on what language you are speaking.

English speakers visit Germany, French visit Allemagne, Spanish Alemania, Poles Niemcy. And the locals they all meet there live in Deutschland.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:15 am 
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Fat Old Git wrote:
deadduck wrote:
Gordon Bennett wrote:
Saw there was a petition raised to rename the country to "Aotearoa New Zealand"

How would people feel about that change


Aotearoa as a name for all of NZ is a modern invention. New Zealand is a much older name.

I'm not opposed to changing the name but it should be an accurate tradition, and not something that feels forced for the sake of bilingualism. It feels a little bit token.

The reality is there probably is not a suitable name and in that case it may be best to not change.


I think the calls shows how depressingly mono-lingual we are as a nation. Lots of countries have names that change depending on what language you are speaking.

English speakers visit Germany, French visit Allemagne, Spanish Alemania, Poles Niemcy. And the locals they all meet there live in Deutschland.


You don't have to change the name. You could just add it on the start or end, with or without a hyphen, make it official and everyone is happy


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:20 am 
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Enzedder wrote:
Dark wrote:
Enzedder wrote:
Quote:
but wrong is wrong.


:lol: it's right up there with pony tail pulling


Not really

Key's was being openly an idiot

Clark's was being openly dishonest


Nope - as stated above, Key's was sexual harassment.


:lol: ..yeh ok

You surely can’t be serious with that comment


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:24 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 3906
Waka Nathan wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:
maxbox wrote:
You would rate Crusher Collins higher than bridges? Collins was complicit in that whole scandal involving her hubby and that Chinese company. Lady is a crook


She also came out the worst on dirty politics, being pretty tight with that fucktard Slater. Collins is a nasty piece of work who I want nowhere near the seat of power. Bridges is infinitely better.

Collins is a hideously corrupt person:

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/politics/jud ... s-minister


‘Nasty piece of work’.. “hideously corrupt’ - people need to get a grip

Btw -she was cleared in an admittedly limited investigation but hardly deserves these type of exaggerated comments


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