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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:33 am 
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Though, was it Logan or the players who did for McGlock?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:36 am 
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Willie Falloon wrote:
themaddog wrote:
Willie Falloon wrote:
harry 22 wrote:
not sure all the criticism of Kiss is warranted...

thats as bad a group of tight forwards we've seen in the provinces in a number of years imo. best has barely been fit this year and hendo cant play every game. the fact that herring is the most notable tight forward after that should be a clue

every other game they're going to get smoked up front. very hard to win like that

i've said before. they need to be moving heaven and earth to get the likes of Dooley/byrne from Leinster to pair with Moore. I'd even be looking at Bent whos become a serviceable TH

you cant blame Kiss for Coetzee's being permacrocked, nor can you blame him for the Jackson/olding issues. thats 3 serious players out long term

have some perspective ulsterfans


I think the problem with Kiss is his personality, his motivational skills and actually his defensive coaching

So, imagine how a typical Ulsterman presents himself and talks and then we are seeing this cub run about with an american style baseball hat and talking complete and utter shit in interviews. He needs to act a bit more like McLaughlin...


He keeps chopping and changing his sides, last week he played a FB at 13 and a 13 at 12 FFS. :roll:

And where did that get McLaughlin?

More popular than Les.

Evidently not really.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:41 am 
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CM11 wrote:
DiscoHips D'Arcy wrote:
harry 22 wrote:
not sure all the criticism of Kiss is warranted...

thats as bad a group of tight forwards we've seen in the provinces in a number of years imo. best has barely been fit this year and hendo cant play every game. the fact that herring is the most notable tight forward after that should be a clue

every other game they're going to get smoked up front. very hard to win like that

i've said before. they need to be moving heaven and earth to get the likes of Dooley/byrne from Leinster to pair with Moore. I'd even be looking at Bent whos become a serviceable TH

you cant blame Kiss for Coetzee's being permacrocked, nor can you blame him for the Jackson/olding issues. thats 3 serious players out long term

have some perspective ulsterfans



He’s had 3/4 years in charge in which we have significantly regressed each year and the facet of play for which he is responsible is appalling. He’s the guy that signed off on Deysel and VDM. He’s also the guy that threw two props who hadn’t a game in 2 months in together against munster. He certainly has had a poor hand and he is by no means the only issue but he is part of the problem.

He would also have a European QF in his pocket had he picked the first XV away at oyonnax a couple of years ago but he didn’t and it took a miraculous comeback for us to get the win when the TBP would have seen us in Europe’s quarters. He hasn’t helped himself.


Kiss is actually only in the job just over 2 years. This is his second full season.


Is that the case. It’s not that long. I still don’t care. He’s got his guys and we are going backwards. He’s not going anywhere mid season. If he reaches the European quarters he’s safe. If he reaches the pro14 play offs he is possibly safe. If he reaches neither he is gone.

I’d like nothing better than to see him turn it around. Seems a decent sort but he lacks any semblance of passion for the job he does. MoC at least got angry even if his anger was misplaced. If in a few years ulster have a bloody good pack I suspect people may well see Kiss as the guy that’s laid the foundations for a period of success but I don’t expect him to be around to see it.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:44 am 
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unseenwork wrote:
Though, was it Logan or the players who did for McGlock?



Iirc there was an element that said Muller and Terblanche led a lot of what was going on. Also I think Doak complained his attack was constrained under McLaughlin. McLaughlins biggest failing was (imo) being reliant on 15 to 18 guys and flogging them. Obviously we didn’t depth we had in the following years though


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:50 am 
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DiscoHips D'Arcy wrote:
unseenwork wrote:
Though, was it Logan or the players who did for McGlock?



Iirc there was an element that said Muller and Terblanche led a lot of what was going on. Also I think Doak complained his attack was constrained under McLaughlin. McLaughlins biggest failing was (imo) being reliant on 15 to 18 guys and flogging them. Obviously we didn’t depth we had in the following years though

That's pretty much what I'd always heard. It's been a series of player instigated moves.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:53 am 
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unseenwork wrote:
DiscoHips D'Arcy wrote:
unseenwork wrote:
Though, was it Logan or the players who did for McGlock?



Iirc there was an element that said Muller and Terblanche led a lot of what was going on. Also I think Doak complained his attack was constrained under McLaughlin. McLaughlins biggest failing was (imo) being reliant on 15 to 18 guys and flogging them. Obviously we didn’t depth we had in the following years though

That's pretty much what I'd always heard. It's been a series of player instigated moves.


Anscombe was player/IRFU led. Logan wanted to let him see out the deal but his behaviour was allegedly beyond the pale.

Edit: for clarity I don’t mean to say that Muller got rid of McLaughlin. I meant it that those two guys were already doing a lot of the training. The rumours were that in the last season of Anscombe Muller and Best were holding things together


Last edited by DiscoHips D'Arcy on Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:54 am 
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DiscoHips D'Arcy wrote:
CM11 wrote:
DiscoHips D'Arcy wrote:
harry 22 wrote:
not sure all the criticism of Kiss is warranted...

thats as bad a group of tight forwards we've seen in the provinces in a number of years imo. best has barely been fit this year and hendo cant play every game. the fact that herring is the most notable tight forward after that should be a clue

every other game they're going to get smoked up front. very hard to win like that

i've said before. they need to be moving heaven and earth to get the likes of Dooley/byrne from Leinster to pair with Moore. I'd even be looking at Bent whos become a serviceable TH

you cant blame Kiss for Coetzee's being permacrocked, nor can you blame him for the Jackson/olding issues. thats 3 serious players out long term

have some perspective ulsterfans



He’s had 3/4 years in charge in which we have significantly regressed each year and the facet of play for which he is responsible is appalling. He’s the guy that signed off on Deysel and VDM. He’s also the guy that threw two props who hadn’t a game in 2 months in together against munster. He certainly has had a poor hand and he is by no means the only issue but he is part of the problem.

He would also have a European QF in his pocket had he picked the first XV away at oyonnax a couple of years ago but he didn’t and it took a miraculous comeback for us to get the win when the TBP would have seen us in Europe’s quarters. He hasn’t helped himself.


Kiss is actually only in the job just over 2 years. This is his second full season.


Is that the case. It’s not that long. I still don’t care. He’s got his guys and we are going backwards. He’s not going anywhere mid season. If he reaches the European quarters he’s safe. If he reaches the pro14 play offs he is possibly safe. If he reaches neither he is gone.

I’d like nothing better than to see him turn it around. Seems a decent sort but he lacks any semblance of passion for the job he does. MoC at least got angry even if his anger was misplaced. If in a few years ulster have a bloody good pack I suspect people may well see Kiss as the guy that’s laid the foundations for a period of success but I don’t expect him to be around to see it.

With all due respect Ulster just don't have the forwards in particular to compete very much beyond a mid Pro 14 ranking. Kiss inherited the situation where Piutau was signed, at a price that would have bought two decent second rows, at a time when Ulster didn't need any back 3 players. There was no planning for any sort of life after Pienaar, until the IRFU forced Ulster, which led to the signing of Cooney. And finally, you are simply not producing enough home grown players of a high enough standard to be anything much more than mid level Pro 14.

Believe me I wish it was different, as Ireland need four strong provinces to compete themselves.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:02 am 
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unseenwork wrote:
DiscoHips D'Arcy wrote:
unseenwork wrote:
Though, was it Logan or the players who did for McGlock?



Iirc there was an element that said Muller and Terblanche led a lot of what was going on. Also I think Doak complained his attack was constrained under McLaughlin. McLaughlins biggest failing was (imo) being reliant on 15 to 18 guys and flogging them. Obviously we didn’t depth we had in the following years though

That's pretty much what I'd always heard. It's been a series of player instigated moves.

Which isn't healthy at all. That needs to be broken asap.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:03 am 
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paddyor wrote:
unseenwork wrote:
DiscoHips D'Arcy wrote:
unseenwork wrote:
Though, was it Logan or the players who did for McGlock?



Iirc there was an element that said Muller and Terblanche led a lot of what was going on. Also I think Doak complained his attack was constrained under McLaughlin. McLaughlins biggest failing was (imo) being reliant on 15 to 18 guys and flogging them. Obviously we didn’t depth we had in the following years though

That's pretty much what I'd always heard. It's been a series of player instigated moves.

Which isn't healthy at all. That needs to be broken asap.

There's a lot to come out about the Ulster set up that isn't healthy I think.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:05 am 
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camroc1 wrote:
DiscoHips D'Arcy wrote:
CM11 wrote:
DiscoHips D'Arcy wrote:
harry 22 wrote:
not sure all the criticism of Kiss is warranted...

thats as bad a group of tight forwards we've seen in the provinces in a number of years imo. best has barely been fit this year and hendo cant play every game. the fact that herring is the most notable tight forward after that should be a clue

every other game they're going to get smoked up front. very hard to win like that

i've said before. they need to be moving heaven and earth to get the likes of Dooley/byrne from Leinster to pair with Moore. I'd even be looking at Bent whos become a serviceable TH

you cant blame Kiss for Coetzee's being permacrocked, nor can you blame him for the Jackson/olding issues. thats 3 serious players out long term

have some perspective ulsterfans



He’s had 3/4 years in charge in which we have significantly regressed each year and the facet of play for which he is responsible is appalling. He’s the guy that signed off on Deysel and VDM. He’s also the guy that threw two props who hadn’t a game in 2 months in together against munster. He certainly has had a poor hand and he is by no means the only issue but he is part of the problem.

He would also have a European QF in his pocket had he picked the first XV away at oyonnax a couple of years ago but he didn’t and it took a miraculous comeback for us to get the win when the TBP would have seen us in Europe’s quarters. He hasn’t helped himself.


Kiss is actually only in the job just over 2 years. This is his second full season.


Is that the case. It’s not that long. I still don’t care. He’s got his guys and we are going backwards. He’s not going anywhere mid season. If he reaches the European quarters he’s safe. If he reaches the pro14 play offs he is possibly safe. If he reaches neither he is gone.

I’d like nothing better than to see him turn it around. Seems a decent sort but he lacks any semblance of passion for the job he does. MoC at least got angry even if his anger was misplaced. If in a few years ulster have a bloody good pack I suspect people may well see Kiss as the guy that’s laid the foundations for a period of success but I don’t expect him to be around to see it.

With all due respect Ulster just don't have the forwards in particular to compete very much beyond a mid Pro 14 ranking. Kiss inherited the situation where Piutau was signed, at a price that would have bought two decent second rows, at a time when Ulster didn't need any back 3 players. There was no planning for any sort of life after Pienaar, until the IRFU forced Ulster, which led to the signing of Cooney. And finally, you are simply not producing enough home grown players of a high enough standard to be anything much more than mid level Pro 14.


You’re right but ignoring the failings aswell. Agreed on Piutau. I’ve heard Piutau was signed to boost sales and not in the best interests of the team (albeit at that time we wouldn’t have been allowed to NIQ 2nd rows or backrows).

Ulster had tried (half arsed in my view) to plan for life after Pienaar by trying porter, Heaney and lastly Shanahan none of whom could get past small Paul but you’ll find I wasn’t critical of the irfu in the case of Pienaar. If Kiss is integral to the signings of Moore and Murphy then he has been valuable but I suspect Gibbes is more important there. Like I said Kiss has also signed off on Deysel (who has been poor) and VDM who looks like the worst overseas signing ever. He’s got selection wrong and he has also allowed guys like Warwick and Diack to thrive when they are past their usefulness. Obviously the Jackson thing has f**ked us but for his faults getting Lealiafano was fortunate

Should add the failed Botha signing


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:30 am 
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unseenwork wrote:
paddyor wrote:
unseenwork wrote:
That's pretty much what I'd always heard. It's been a series of player instigated moves.

Which isn't healthy at all. That needs to be broken asap.

There's a lot to come out about the Ulster set up that isn't healthy I think.

Big caveat - we don't really know the full details, but it doesn't seem healthy that Cave has a training ground bust up with Kiss and it leaks leading to a petition. Hendersons comments about Ulster aren't a feeder club for Leinster and then last week you'd former player (?) Ricky Lutton commenting on the make up of the team. Which is a valid concern, and it's been noted here a few times, but you wonder how that plays in the dressing room (Apparently Mick Kearney got put on the naughty step at Leinster for complaining about "dem furriners" (Triggs) along with the rest of it. There seems to have been a lot of coaching turnover at Ulster. The entire backroom was changed this season but nothings changed mainly because it's the same pack and there's only so much you can do with it.

I think you'd be in a much better place if the 2 saffers weren't made of biscuit (Fardy probably has more minutes in a few months for Leinster than Coatzee and Deysel altogether) and the 2 lads weren't on trial.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:36 am 
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Ulster are a basket case.
What's this Henderson comment?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:47 am 
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paddyor wrote:
unseenwork wrote:
paddyor wrote:
unseenwork wrote:
That's pretty much what I'd always heard. It's been a series of player instigated moves.

Which isn't healthy at all. That needs to be broken asap.

There's a lot to come out about the Ulster set up that isn't healthy I think.

Big caveat - we don't really know the full details, but it doesn't seem healthy that Cave has a training ground bust up with Kiss and it leaks leading to a petition. Hendersons comments about Ulster aren't a feeder club for Leinster and then last week you'd former player (?) Ricky Lutton commenting on the make up of the team. Which is a valid concern, and it's been noted here a few times, but you wonder how that plays in the dressing room (Apparently Mick Kearney got put on the naughty step at Leinster for complaining about "dem furriners" (Triggs) along with the rest of it. There seems to have been a lot of coaching turnover at Ulster. The entire backroom was changed this season but nothings changed mainly because it's the same pack and there's only so much you can do with it.

I think you'd be in a much better place if the 2 saffers weren't made of biscuit (Fardy probably has more minutes in a few months for Leinster than Coatzee and Deysel altogether) and the 2 lads weren't on trial.


I wouldn’t take much notice of the cave petition in fairness. Cave spoke after the munster game and seemed really frustrated but Kiss would have loved every word. I suppose the number of Leinster imports is a valid concern but there’s more made of that down south than up here and it’s hardly a criticism of those young leinstermen who are there on merit. You don’t hear criticism of AoC or Cooney who are the two most high profile leinstermen in the setup (currently).

You are 100% right in terms of we don’t know the full story. As much as McLaughlin going may have had something to do with players it was also Humphrey’s wanting his own man in charge (Matt Sexton) but not being prepared to relinquish control which cost him and we got Anscombe which unfortunately was doomed.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:11 am 
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I see earl mentiomed Henderson was "world class" a few posts ago, for me he's not even close. I could pick 5 + better locks in the home nations alone. Dunno what others thoughts are ? I suppose it's you definition of world class, for me its top 5 or top 10 players in that position in the world of which he is not imo, great player though and glad Ireland have him.

Ulster are in a bad place, been said previously but you can't just buy your way to success and now they are literally living off the scraps of other provinces, as much as I'd blame kiss I'd blame the admin...

When I say buy your way to succes I don't mean Toulon buy , I mean spending large sums on players where you have a deficit when you have one everywhere.ulster has been f**ked from years of bad running from youth level

I feel sorry for players like best but what's an acceptable level would be my question? It's just a province and if you ain't got the players you ain't got them


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:08 am 
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What was Anscombe up to then that got him sacked?

He was by far the best coach in terms of results that Ulster have had recently.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:38 am 
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goose81 wrote:
I see earl mentiomed Henderson was "world class" a few posts ago, for me he's not even close. I could pick 5 + better locks in the home nations alone. Dunno what others thoughts are ? I suppose it's you definition of world class, for me its top 5 or top 10 players in that position in the world of which he is not imo, great player though and glad Ireland have him.

Ulster are in a bad place, been said previously but you can't just buy your way to success and now they are literally living off the scraps of other provinces, as much as I'd blame kiss I'd blame the admin...

When I say buy your way to succes I don't mean Toulon buy , I mean spending large sums on players where you have a deficit when you have one everywhere.ulster has been f**ked from years of bad running from youth level

I feel sorry for players like best but what's an acceptable level would be my question? It's just a province and if you ain't got the players you ain't got them

Well you'd be wrong on Hendy.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:40 am 
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danthefan wrote:
What was Anscombe up to then that got him sacked?

He was by far the best coach in terms of results that Ulster have had recently.

Pisshead, was considered a bad influence on young players.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:46 am 
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earl the beaver wrote:
goose81 wrote:
I see earl mentiomed Henderson was "world class" a few posts ago, for me he's not even close. I could pick 5 + better locks in the home nations alone. Dunno what others thoughts are ? I suppose it's you definition of world class, for me its top 5 or top 10 players in that position in the world of which he is not imo, great player though and glad Ireland have him.

Ulster are in a bad place, been said previously but you can't just buy your way to success and now they are literally living off the scraps of other provinces, as much as I'd blame kiss I'd blame the admin...

When I say buy your way to succes I don't mean Toulon buy , I mean spending large sums on players where you have a deficit when you have one everywhere.ulster has been f**ked from years of bad running from youth level

I feel sorry for players like best but what's an acceptable level would be my question? It's just a province and if you ain't got the players you ain't got them

Well you'd be wrong on Hendy.

Extremely so.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:19 am 
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danthefan wrote:
What was Anscombe up to then that got him sacked?

He was by far the best coach in terms of results that Ulster have had recently.

Constantly in the pub, often bringing some favourites (kiwis) with him!!

We had some team in 12/13/14. That final vs Leinster in 2013 and that semi final loss vs Glasgow. We should have won the league at least once during the period. We were the best team in the league.


We do have a decent amount of talent coming through the underage set up currently. Hopefully they can rebuild the culture within the squad. More Ulster men, would be a start!!!


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:19 am 
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danthefan wrote:
What was Anscombe up to then that got him sacked?

He was by far the best coach in terms of results that Ulster have had recently.


Booze I think. Like all the time.

In terms of locks in the home nations I’d probably have Itoje in front of Henderson. There are others in his proximity but none clearly better


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:22 am 
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I wouldn't envy any coach going into that setup. Sounds like there's something rotten up there.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:23 am 
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unseenwork wrote:
earl the beaver wrote:
goose81 wrote:
I see earl mentiomed Henderson was "world class" a few posts ago, for me he's not even close. I could pick 5 + better locks in the home nations alone. Dunno what others thoughts are ? I suppose it's you definition of world class, for me its top 5 or top 10 players in that position in the world of which he is not imo, great player though and glad Ireland have him.

Ulster are in a bad place, been said previously but you can't just buy your way to success and now they are literally living off the scraps of other provinces, as much as I'd blame kiss I'd blame the admin...

When I say buy your way to succes I don't mean Toulon buy , I mean spending large sums on players where you have a deficit when you have one everywhere.ulster has been f**ked from years of bad running from youth level

I feel sorry for players like best but what's an acceptable level would be my question? It's just a province and if you ain't got the players you ain't got them

Well you'd be wrong on Hendy.

Extremely so.



Would worry about yer mauns comment on Henderson. He's the poster who said ferris was overrated in 2010/2011 and shouldn't start for Ireland.

Fez is the most talented blindside flanker to play for Ireland... Ever. When fully fit he was the equal of Juan Smith and Jerome Kaino.


Goose is full of dung.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:27 am 
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alliswell wrote:
I wouldn't envy any coach going into that setup. Sounds like there's something rotten up there.


I think it stems from having a CEO with no knowledge of Rugby and so is reliant on those below him who will have agendas. Humph was one, Doak another. I honestly can’t speak for Bryn. Only thing is Kiss has been given carte Blanche (as he should be) to have his own team


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:38 am 
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Why does the CEO need to have much knowledge of rugby? Ulster seem to do very well commercially and that's his job surely. I've never really seen or heard of Mick Dawson getting involved in the rugby side of things. In fact he's had a very low profile recently.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:46 am 
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It helps with the blame game, Dan.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:54 am 
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danthefan wrote:
Why does the CEO need to have much knowledge of rugby? Ulster seem to do very well commercially and that's his job surely. I've never really seen or heard of Mick Dawson getting involved in the rugby side of things. In fact he's had a very low profile recently.

Ah not that blunt.

I did my thesis on stuff like this how business decisions are different in pro sport etc

The players are both the employees and the product in a sense.

Commerical decisions need to be in line with playing ones. It's not crucial but it is important


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:11 am 
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unseenwork wrote:
Though, was it Logan or the players who did for McGlock?


David Humphreys.

Logan wouldn't know anything about coaches.

McGlock did a good job at steadying the ship after 2 years of Ulster being basket cases under McCall, temporary coaches and Muddie Williams but D Humph thought Ulster needed a coach to "take Ulster to the next level", which there was some truth in if you compared McGlock with Schmidt at Leinster (but then just about any coach would have suffered in comparison to Schmidt).


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:18 am 
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Jumper wrote:
SASP wrote:
earl the beaver wrote:
SASP wrote:
I've had a pop at some of the boo boys in King Ravens.

It's a poor show.

At what point did TOD go off? I don't remember what was happening as he left the field.


I wasn't referring to that incident nor was I at that game.

However 64th Minute when TOD went off.


Booed Sam Arnold when the camera was on him too. Whatever about the incident, he was one of your own.


He'd just clothes-lined our 10. Fair enough to give him some stick. Didn't hear TOD getting booed and don't know why he would've been.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:20 am 
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Lads it's Jumper FFS.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:21 am 
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Willie Falloon wrote:
unseenwork wrote:
earl the beaver wrote:
goose81 wrote:
I see earl mentiomed Henderson was "world class" a few posts ago, for me he's not even close. I could pick 5 + better locks in the home nations alone. Dunno what others thoughts are ? I suppose it's you definition of world class, for me its top 5 or top 10 players in that position in the world of which he is not imo, great player though and glad Ireland have him.

Ulster are in a bad place, been said previously but you can't just buy your way to success and now they are literally living off the scraps of other provinces, as much as I'd blame kiss I'd blame the admin...

When I say buy your way to succes I don't mean Toulon buy , I mean spending large sums on players where you have a deficit when you have one everywhere.ulster has been f**ked from years of bad running from youth level

I feel sorry for players like best but what's an acceptable level would be my question? It's just a province and if you ain't got the players you ain't got them

Well you'd be wrong on Hendy.

Extremely so.



Would worry about yer mauns comment on Henderson. He's the poster who said ferris was overrated in 2010/2011 and shouldn't start for Ireland.

Fez is the most talented blindside flanker to play for Ireland... Ever. When fully fit he was the equal of Juan Smith and Jerome Kaino.


Goose is full of dung.


Agree absolutely on Ferris.

On henderson, great as he is (and looks like he might go on to be absolutely top drawer) I agree that theres a couple ahead of him at the moment. Not really interested in 'world class' or similar, but hes got some catching up to do on the kiwi and english bunch imo (looks well capable of it though)

Retallick is the benchmark, and to be honest, no one else comes close


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:22 am 
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alliswell wrote:
I wouldn't envy any coach going into that setup. Sounds like there's something rotten up there.


I can't help but think there is a "big fish, small pond" issue with Ulster. Too many players living a comfortable life and thinking they are the dogs bollox being minor celeb pro sports players in what is basically a big town. Players like Rory Best and Trimble have been model pros themselves but a player-led culture of excellence never seems to have developed at Ulster, like it has at winning teams.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:30 am 
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FravBront wrote:
Willie Falloon wrote:
unseenwork wrote:
earl the beaver wrote:
goose81 wrote:
I see earl mentiomed Henderson was "world class" a few posts ago, for me he's not even close. I could pick 5 + better locks in the home nations alone. Dunno what others thoughts are ? I suppose it's you definition of world class, for me its top 5 or top 10 players in that position in the world of which he is not imo, great player though and glad Ireland have him.

Ulster are in a bad place, been said previously but you can't just buy your way to success and now they are literally living off the scraps of other provinces, as much as I'd blame kiss I'd blame the admin...

When I say buy your way to succes I don't mean Toulon buy , I mean spending large sums on players where you have a deficit when you have one everywhere.ulster has been f**ked from years of bad running from youth level

I feel sorry for players like best but what's an acceptable level would be my question? It's just a province and if you ain't got the players you ain't got them

Well you'd be wrong on Hendy.

Extremely so.



Would worry about yer mauns comment on Henderson. He's the poster who said ferris was overrated in 2010/2011 and shouldn't start for Ireland.

Fez is the most talented blindside flanker to play for Ireland... Ever. When fully fit he was the equal of Juan Smith and Jerome Kaino.


Goose is full of dung.


Agree absolutely on Ferris.

On henderson, great as he is (and looks like he might go on to be absolutely top drawer) I agree that theres a couple ahead of him at the moment. Not really interested in 'world class' or similar, but hes got some catching up to do on the kiwi and english bunch imo (looks well capable of it though)

Retallick is the benchmark, and to be honest, no one else comes close

By English bunch you mean Itoje yes? None of the others are better than him.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:35 am 
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mikerob wrote:
alliswell wrote:
I wouldn't envy any coach going into that setup. Sounds like there's something rotten up there.


I can't help but think there is a "big fish, small pond" issue with Ulster. Too many players living a comfortable life and thinking they are the dogs bollox being minor celeb pro sports players in what is basically a big town. Players like Rory Best and Trimble have been model pros themselves but a player-led culture of excellence never seems to have developed at Ulster, like it has at winning teams.


Agreed. In honesty I would hope this Jackson/Olding business would serve as a warning to some youngsters coming through. Our decent players don’t seem to be leaders either, aside from Best.

I would say currently whitelock, retallick and Itoje would be ahead of Henderson. I wouldn’t have launchbury or Kruis there though.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:37 am 
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unseenwork wrote:
Though, was it Logan or the players who did for McGlock?


Humphries, the vindictive, nepotistic sod.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:37 am 
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World class has a number of definitions but for me it's a level of play and not if you're in the top 5. You could have 20 world class players in one position and no world class in another.

I would probably have Hendo just below world class right now. He could achieve that standard over this calendar year.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:40 am 
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CM11 wrote:
World class has a number of definitions but for me it's a level of play and not if you're in the top 5. You could have 20 world class players in one position and no world class in another.

I would probably have Hendo just below world class right now. He could achieve that standard over this calendar year.

If his level of play hasn't been this world class level you speak of then I'm not sure what more he can do.

Fantastic for Lions, great for Ireland since he came back in and has single handedly beaten up a few supposed better packs on his own for Ulster (Wasps being the prime example)


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:41 am 
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Projected 32 man under-20 6 nations squad:

Props

Jordan Duggan (Naas RFC/Leinster)
James French (UCC/Munster)
Jack Aungier (St. Marys/Leinster)
Tom O'Toole (Banbridge/Ulster)

Hooker
Ronan Kelleher (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Alex Clarke (Queens/Ulster)

2nd Row
Cormac Daly (Clontarf/Leinster)
Jack Dunne (DUFC/Leinster)
Matthew Dalton (Malone/Ulster)
Ronan Coffey (Shannon/Munster)

Backrow
Sean Masterson (Corinthians/Connacht)
Aaron Hall (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
Jack O'Sullivan (UCC/Munster)
Max Kearney (DUFC/Leinster)
Richard Dunne (DUFC/Leinster)
Ronan Foley (UCD/Leinster)

Scrumhalf
Jonny Stewart (Queens/Ulster)
Hugh O'Sullivan (Clontarf/Leinster)
Patrick Patterson (UCD/Leinster)

Outhalf
Conor Dean (St Marys/Leinster)
Harry Byrne (UCD/Leinster)(u19)
Angus Curtis (Queens/Ulster)

Outside Backs
Tommy O'Brien (UCD/Leinster)
Michael Silvester (DUFC/Leinster)
Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
Peter Sullivan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Daniel Hurley (Young Munster/Munster)
David McCarthy (Garryowen/Munster)
James McCarthy (UL Bohs/Munster)(u19)
Angus Kernohan (Ballymena/Ulster)(u19)
Aaron O'Sullivan (Wasps)(u19)
James Newey (Bristol)


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:45 am 
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Willie Falloon wrote:
harry 22 wrote:
not sure all the criticism of Kiss is warranted...

thats as bad a group of tight forwards we've seen in the provinces in a number of years imo. best has barely been fit this year and hendo cant play every game. the fact that herring is the most notable tight forward after that should be a clue

every other game they're going to get smoked up front. very hard to win like that

i've said before. they need to be moving heaven and earth to get the likes of Dooley/byrne from Leinster to pair with Moore. I'd even be looking at Bent whos become a serviceable TH

you cant blame Kiss for Coetzee's being permacrocked, nor can you blame him for the Jackson/olding issues. thats 3 serious players out long term

have some perspective ulsterfans


I think the problem with Kiss is his personality, his motivational skills and actually his defensive coaching

So, imagine how a typical Ulsterman presents himself and talks and then we are seeing this cub run about with an american style baseball hat and talking complete and utter shit in interviews. He needs to act a bit more like McLaughlin...


He keeps chopping and changing his sides, last week he played a FB at 13 and a 13 at 12 FFS. :roll:

If a Munster fan said that we'd be laughing at that nonsense. Is this the Ulster version of pashun? Some sullen exemplar of Presbyterian work ethics and stolid bloody-mindedness?

The problem with Kiss is that the pack is absolute shite and Ulster have pissed away a load of money on Piatau rather than get in another decent forward at a time when Coetzee has proven unreliable.

Add in to the mix the Olding/Jackson imbroglio and not many coaches would be thriving. Harry 22's not wrong in his summing up of the issue.

Gerry Thornley was giving out about rugby fans becoming like football fans on Second Captains, and he was highlighting this idea of people crying out for coaches to be sacked rather than examining the problems in a team or squad.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:46 am 
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No Dunleavey?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:47 am 
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shortbutlong wrote:
unseenwork wrote:
Though, was it Logan or the players who did for McGlock?


Humphries, the vindictive, nepotistic sod.


Exactly and then he fûcked off. He was like a toddler who smeared sudocreme all over the telly but is found reading a book on the stairs.


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