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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:08 pm 
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sewa wrote:
We owe 11 million on a 40 million stadium, probably the best club stadium in Europe. We made a profit this year also. But hey why bother with facts

It is in it's hoop. Leicester, Racing? Any other number of French teams. It's not even suitable for your needs given you fill it maybe 4 times a year. And the only reason you owe only 11m is because you got a bail out from the IRFU. Without that the interest payments would have completely sank you. It's now apparent that the 10 year tickets won't be clearing the stadium debt(paid off 2.6m and it's 100k thereafter for a couple of years).


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:12 pm 
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anonymous_joe wrote:
earl the beaver wrote:
The Sun God wrote:
I hear there is a massive row brewing between Donnybrook and the IRFU in relation to JC. Leinster are insisting he is going nowhere as he still has a year to run on his contract. He has signed nothing with Munster..... Interesting times.

Leinster Rugby (the professional sports body) is wholly owned by the IRFU. The Leinster Branch IRFU is just that, a branch of the IRFU with the job of organising both the amateur game and supporting the professional game.

As such if the IRFU want something it is within their power to do it. The Ulster board did not want Jackson sacked or Olding sacked, it voted overwhelmingly to keep them (only Logan voted against) and the IRFU revoked the contracts.

Separate corporate personhood means that companies within one group can theoretically sue each other. Without knowing the corporate structure of the IRFU, it's impossible to say if the IRFU can just tell them what to do.

Indeed, though rare, separate branches of the State can sue each other.

It's also a bad look for the IRFU given what happened with Heidelberger.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:19 pm 
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paddyor wrote:
Diego wrote:
Looks like an Irish Fardy tbh.

If Fardy were 10kg lighter.

Nah, Beirne is at least the same size imo. Looks thicker set.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:38 pm 
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alliswell wrote:
CM11 wrote:
He's an excellent wide carrier, has good ball handling skills, good defender and obviously brilliant over the ball. If you were looking to describe what you wanted in a backrower, you wouldn't go far wrong pointing at him.

The reason players his height get put in the second row is because they're not agile enough to play backrow or they lack some basic backrow skills. And I'm not saying he can't be a decent lock and bring those skills just that he seems a bit light for the position. Munster apparently are going to bulk him up and we'll see what happens then but he could be another in a long list of Leinster locks who are tall enough but whose game suffers massively when asked to get to fighting lock weight.

It's an opinion I have that he could be world class as a 6 and I've accepted that he's not going to be developed there. I'm really not sure why you're coming down on me for having that opinion?

Your first three skills are what you'd expect from a good rugby player. His ability over the ball is a good reason to free him up a little at scrum time but he wouldn't be the first lock who's good on the ground. Itoje for example.

The only mark going against him as a lock is that he looks a bit lightweight but we don't really know what kind of power output he has or what his scrummaging is like so that's just speculation. Who else is in that long list you mention?

I would take issue with your description of 6'6"ish 2nd rows as lumbering oafs who are forced to toil away with the tall freaks to compensate for a lack of athleticism but maybe that's because I was a slightly short 2nd row myself.

Lastly, he's 27 this winter. If he was going to be world class anywhere one of his coaches would probably have identified it by now and would be focussing on keeping him in that position. Chances are that he'll be very good. World class is very optimistic.

Not sure I agree that good ball handling skills are an automatice for agood rugby player. Plenty of good forwards and a few backs who aren't good at it. Itoje, and Lawes, have played plenty at 6.

We don't know what exactly he was told to do re weight. I said it to someone re the 10kg and they said that players tend to lose weight throughout the season(and he's played over 2300mins this season) so it could be just getting back to his start of season weight or just above it. IMO if he packs on too much weight he'll lose what makes him so effective in the loose.

On the last point, he did get long listed for the Spiv cup player of the year and there was plenty of world class players in that. Like Scott Fardy, who didn't break thru until he was about 27. Scarlets operate on a budget between 60-80% of what Munster do depending on the exchange rate. They flogged him because they had to. He was on peanuts apparently.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:39 pm 
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Diego wrote:
paddyor wrote:
Diego wrote:
Looks like an Irish Fardy tbh.

If Fardy were 10kg lighter.

Nah, Beirne is at least the same size imo. Looks thicker set.

Fardy 114kg
Beirne 106kg

I think Fardy looks bigger.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:44 pm 
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Given how agile he is, he might be that weight but listed weights aren't that accurate. Does anyone believe Ryan is only 108kgs, for example?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:46 pm 
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paddyor wrote:
Diego wrote:
paddyor wrote:
Diego wrote:
Looks like an Irish Fardy tbh.

If Fardy were 10kg lighter.

Nah, Beirne is at least the same size imo. Looks thicker set.

Fardy 114kg
Beirne 106kg

I think Fardy looks bigger.

First rule of internet rugby shit talking - ignore "official" player weights and heights.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:48 pm 
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paddyor wrote:
sewa wrote:
We owe 11 million on a 40 million stadium, probably the best club stadium in Europe. We made a profit this year also. But hey why bother with facts

It is in it's hoop. Leicester, Racing? Any other number of French teams. It's not even suitable for your needs given you fill it maybe 4 times a year. And the only reason you owe only 11m is because you got a bail out from the IRFU. Without that the interest payments would have completely sank you. It's now apparent that the 10 year tickets won't be clearing the stadium debt(paid off 2.6m and it's 100k thereafter for a couple of years).

In general the French teams don´t own their own grounds, they are municipal facilities. Also most of them are aging and don´t have anywhere near the facilities available to Munster. Also we have incredible facilities in UL and Musgrave on top. Leicester is arguable so its either first or second. I don´t see any info anywhere how much came in from the 10 and 5 year ticket packages. I very much doubt that´s in the public domain as they are still on sale. Please provide a link to where you get that info


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:11 pm 
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sewa wrote:
paddyor wrote:
sewa wrote:
We owe 11 million on a 40 million stadium, probably the best club stadium in Europe. We made a profit this year also. But hey why bother with facts

It is in it's hoop. Leicester, Racing? Any other number of French teams. It's not even suitable for your needs given you fill it maybe 4 times a year. And the only reason you owe only 11m is because you got a bail out from the IRFU. Without that the interest payments would have completely sank you. It's now apparent that the 10 year tickets won't be clearing the stadium debt(paid off 2.6m and it's 100k thereafter for a couple of years).

In general the French teams don´t own their own grounds, they are municipal facilities. Also most of them are aging and don´t have anywhere near the facilities available to Munster. Also we have incredible facilities in UL and Musgrave on top. Leicester is arguable so its either first or second. I don´t see any info anywhere how much came in from the 10 and 5 year ticket packages. I very much doubt that´s in the public domain as they are still on sale. Please provide a link to where you get that info

https://munsterrugby.ie/2018/06/07/munster-rugby-agm-financial-update-2/
Quote:
In an extremely positive step, Munster Rugby made a loan repayment of €2.6M to the IRFU in April 2018 having renegotiated the schedule of loan repayments with the governing body. That saw the province bring the loan balance down to €6.9M and commit to future annual repayments of €100K plus a share of certain future potential revenue generating initiatives.

Right, so if you just ignore all them other stadiums available debt free and with no maintenances costs and the fact that it's too big 6 months of the year then yeas it's the definitely in the hunt for medals. What do training facilities have to do with the stadium?

This was ammended from 15/16. When it was supposed to be a lump sum of 4.2m in April 2017(never happened) and payments of 500k until 2026 to clear the balance of the loan.
http://www.irishrugby.ie/downloads/IRFU_AnnualReport_1516.pdf
Page 22.

I don't remember anything official about the 10 year tickets clearing the debt and given the deal that was on the table even in 15/16 they'd have been stupid to commit to that.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:14 pm 
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paddyor wrote:
Diego wrote:
paddyor wrote:
Diego wrote:
Looks like an Irish Fardy tbh.

If Fardy were 10kg lighter.

Nah, Beirne is at least the same size imo. Looks thicker set.

Fardy 114kg
Beirne 106kg

I think Fardy looks bigger.

Didn't even Pivac question (albeit respectfully) whether he had the size to make it as an international 2nd row?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:16 pm 
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Diego wrote:
paddyor wrote:
Diego wrote:
paddyor wrote:
Diego wrote:
Looks like an Irish Fardy tbh.

If Fardy were 10kg lighter.

Nah, Beirne is at least the same size imo. Looks thicker set.

Fardy 114kg
Beirne 106kg

I think Fardy looks bigger.

First rule of internet rugby shit talking - ignore "official" player weights and heights.

First rule of barstooling, claim the stats are wrong particularly when they don't fit your notion of how big or otherwise a player is. Some players are lighter than they look, sometimes the stats are out of date - but they've come from somewhere for the most part.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:20 pm 
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Good to see this thread has got it's mojo back after the weekend :thumbup: :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:21 pm 
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Well, if we accept the weights are all correct then both Beirne and Ryan are too light for locking at international level.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:28 pm 
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CM11 wrote:
Well, if we accept the weights are all correct then both Beirne and Ryan are too light for locking at international level.


What precise weight is acceptable for an international lock? To the tenth of a kg please.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:33 pm 
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What was Brad Thorne's height and weight whilst playing for the All Blacks?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:35 pm 
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danthefan wrote:
CM11 wrote:
Well, if we accept the weights are all correct then both Beirne and Ryan are too light for locking at international level.


What precise weight is acceptable for an international lock? To the tenth of a kg please.


Min of 111.65kgs.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:37 pm 
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Easy Now wrote:
What was Brad Thorne's height and weight whilst playing for the All Blacks?


http://www.allblacks.com/Player/AllBlacks?id=530


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:41 pm 
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paddyor wrote:
sewa wrote:
paddyor wrote:
sewa wrote:
We owe 11 million on a 40 million stadium, probably the best club stadium in Europe. We made a profit this year also. But hey why bother with facts

It is in it's hoop. Leicester, Racing? Any other number of French teams. It's not even suitable for your needs given you fill it maybe 4 times a year. And the only reason you owe only 11m is because you got a bail out from the IRFU. Without that the interest payments would have completely sank you. It's now apparent that the 10 year tickets won't be clearing the stadium debt(paid off 2.6m and it's 100k thereafter for a couple of years).

In general the French teams don´t own their own grounds, they are municipal facilities. Also most of them are aging and don´t have anywhere near the facilities available to Munster. Also we have incredible facilities in UL and Musgrave on top. Leicester is arguable so its either first or second. I don´t see any info anywhere how much came in from the 10 and 5 year ticket packages. I very much doubt that´s in the public domain as they are still on sale. Please provide a link to where you get that info

https://munsterrugby.ie/2018/06/07/munster-rugby-agm-financial-update-2/
Quote:
In an extremely positive step, Munster Rugby made a loan repayment of €2.6M to the IRFU in April 2018 having renegotiated the schedule of loan repayments with the governing body. That saw the province bring the loan balance down to €6.9M and commit to future annual repayments of €100K plus a share of certain future potential revenue generating initiatives.

Right, so if you just ignore all them other stadiums available debt free and with no maintenances costs and the fact that it's too big 6 months of the year then yeas it's the definitely in the hunt for medals. What do training facilities have to do with the stadium?

This was ammended from 15/16. When it was supposed to be a lump sum of 4.2m in April 2017(never happened) and payments of 500k until 2026 to clear the balance of the loan.
http://www.irishrugby.ie/downloads/IRFU_AnnualReport_1516.pdf
Page 22.

I don't remember anything official about the 10 year tickets clearing the debt and given the deal that was on the table even in 15/16 they'd have been stupid to commit to that.


It doesn´t say that 2.6 million is from the 10 and 5 year ticket sales, you are assuming it is.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:44 pm 
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"Accountancy hour" and "weigh that player", its definitely summer time.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:47 pm 
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hermie wrote:
First rule of barstooling, claim the stats are wrong particularly when they don't fit your notion of how big or otherwise a player is. Some players are lighter than they look, sometimes the stats are out of date - but they've come from somewhere for the most part.

:smug:


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:49 pm 
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Armchair_Superstar wrote:
"Accountancy hour" and "weigh that player", its definitely summer time.

We haven't had "why the flip did Ulster sign him?" yet, so we can't say conclusively.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:52 pm 
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Armchair_Superstar wrote:
"Accountancy hour" and "weigh that player", its definitely summer time.

Needs more Nordi whinge.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:52 pm 
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unseenwork wrote:
Armchair_Superstar wrote:
"Accountancy hour" and "weigh that player", its definitely summer time.

We haven't had "why the flip did Ulster sign him?" yet, so we can't say conclusively.


We could have a bumper edition of that this year :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:59 pm 
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Armchair_Superstar wrote:
unseenwork wrote:
Armchair_Superstar wrote:
"Accountancy hour" and "weigh that player", its definitely summer time.

We haven't had "why the flip did Ulster sign him?" yet, so we can't say conclusively.


We could have a bumper edition of that this year :lol:

Hoo boy we certainly could. :uhoh: At this point though I'll just be happy if we sign someone who isn't related to VDM.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:03 pm 
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CM11 wrote:
danthefan wrote:
CM11 wrote:
Well, if we accept the weights are all correct then both Beirne and Ryan are too light for locking at international level.


What precise weight is acceptable for an international lock? To the tenth of a kg please.


Min of 111.65kgs.


Have you thought that potentially your notion of what weight is alright for a lock is actually not correct as opposed to the player weights being wrong?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:04 pm 
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danthefan wrote:
CM11 wrote:
danthefan wrote:
CM11 wrote:
Well, if we accept the weights are all correct then both Beirne and Ryan are too light for locking at international level.


What precise weight is acceptable for an international lock? To the tenth of a kg please.


Min of 111.65kgs.


Have you thought that potentially your notion of what weight is alright for a lock is actually not correct as opposed to the player weights being wrong?


No.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:09 pm 
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unseenwork wrote:
Armchair_Superstar wrote:
"Accountancy hour" and "weigh that player", its definitely summer time.

We haven't had "why the flip did Ulster sign him?" yet, so we can't say conclusively.

This year it's been replaced with "why did Ulster sack them?", before everybody shouts at Earl to give it a rest.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:15 pm 
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Armchair_Superstar wrote:
"Accountancy hour" and "weigh that player", its definitely summer time.


Your hilarious running commentary on the thread continues through all seasons however.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:33 pm 
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Nolanator wrote:
unseenwork wrote:
Armchair_Superstar wrote:
"Accountancy hour" and "weigh that player", its definitely summer time.

We haven't had "why the flip did Ulster sign him?" yet, so we can't say conclusively.

This year it's been replaced with "why did Ulster sack them?", before everybody shouts at Earl to give it a rest.

“It was the IRFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUuuuuuuuuu...!”


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:55 pm 
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DOB wrote:
Nolanator wrote:
unseenwork wrote:
Armchair_Superstar wrote:
"Accountancy hour" and "weigh that player", its definitely summer time.

We haven't had "why the flip did Ulster sign him?" yet, so we can't say conclusively.

This year it's been replaced with "why did Ulster sack them?", before everybody shouts at Earl to give it a rest.

“It was the IRFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUuuuuuuuuu...!”

who are being secretly controlled by the lizard people. In conjunction with the reverse vampires


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:06 pm 
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HighKingLeinster wrote:
DOB wrote:
Nolanator wrote:
unseenwork wrote:
Armchair_Superstar wrote:
"Accountancy hour" and "weigh that player", its definitely summer time.

We haven't had "why the flip did Ulster sign him?" yet, so we can't say conclusively.

This year it's been replaced with "why did Ulster sack them?", before everybody shouts at Earl to give it a rest.

“It was the IRFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUuuuuuuuuu...!”

who are being secretly controlled by the lizard people. In conjunction with the reverse vampires

But there's rebels on the board who oppose the IRFU. They're Ulsters hope....even though they didn't actually rebel or even voice dissent. Who cares really, Earl bought their spiel hook line and sinke!


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:07 pm 
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HighKingLeinster wrote:
DOB wrote:
Nolanator wrote:
unseenwork wrote:
Armchair_Superstar wrote:
"Accountancy hour" and "weigh that player", its definitely summer time.

We haven't had "why the flip did Ulster sign him?" yet, so we can't say conclusively.

This year it's been replaced with "why did Ulster sack them?", before everybody shouts at Earl to give it a rest.

“It was the IRFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUuuuuuuuuu...!”

who are being secretly controlled by the lizard people. In conjunction with the reverse vampires

Don't forget that they force the national coach to select centrally contracted players, no matter their form.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:49 pm 
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CM11 wrote:
anonymous_joe wrote:
I'd presume that there's either a tripartite contract between player and province and then the IRFU or a standard form employee contract for players. This is speculation though.


IRFU hold all contracts. The provinces then compensate the IRFU an agreed amount each season.

:thumbup:


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:51 pm 
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paddyor wrote:
anonymous_joe wrote:
earl the beaver wrote:
The Sun God wrote:
I hear there is a massive row brewing between Donnybrook and the IRFU in relation to JC. Leinster are insisting he is going nowhere as he still has a year to run on his contract. He has signed nothing with Munster..... Interesting times.

Leinster Rugby (the professional sports body) is wholly owned by the IRFU. The Leinster Branch IRFU is just that, a branch of the IRFU with the job of organising both the amateur game and supporting the professional game.

As such if the IRFU want something it is within their power to do it. The Ulster board did not want Jackson sacked or Olding sacked, it voted overwhelmingly to keep them (only Logan voted against) and the IRFU revoked the contracts.

Separate corporate personhood means that companies within one group can theoretically sue each other. Without knowing the corporate structure of the IRFU, it's impossible to say if the IRFU can just tell them what to do.

Indeed, though rare, separate branches of the State can sue each other.

It's also a bad look for the IRFU given what happened with Heidelberger.

Heidelberger?

And yeah, it'd be a huge own goal for Irish rugby in general. I'd be amazed if something like that happened.

Tbh, I just feel sorry for Carbery. Nobody should have that sort of pressure put on them.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:59 pm 
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anonymous_joe wrote:
Heidelberger?

And yeah, it'd be a huge own goal for Irish rugby in general. I'd be amazed if something like that happened.

Tbh, I just feel sorry for Carbery. Nobody should have that sort of pressure put on them.

German team who qualified for the Challenged Cup but were disqualified because their German backer Bild is the Stade Francais Owner as well. Mohed Altrad the Montpellier owner was blocked from acquiring a majority stake in Gloucester last season too. Predictably enough this set some of the Welsh off on a round of whataboutery re the IRFU and SRU controlling all their teams.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:23 pm 
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danthefan wrote:
Armchair_Superstar wrote:
"Accountancy hour" and "weigh that player", its definitely summer time.


Your hilarious running commentary on the thread continues through all seasons however.


And there was me thinking you didn't have a sense of humour!


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:31 pm 
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paddyor wrote:
anonymous_joe wrote:
Heidelberger?

And yeah, it'd be a huge own goal for Irish rugby in general. I'd be amazed if something like that happened.

Tbh, I just feel sorry for Carbery. Nobody should have that sort of pressure put on them.

German team who qualified for the Challenged Cup but were disqualified because their German backer Bild is the Stade Francais Owner as well. Mohed Altrad the Montpellier owner was blocked from acquiring a majority stake in Gloucester last season too. Predictably enough this set some of the Welsh off on a round of whataboutery re the IRFU and SRU controlling all their teams.

Sure the Welsh central contracts mean they control their own teams partially now too.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:38 pm 
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anonymous_joe wrote:
paddyor wrote:
anonymous_joe wrote:
Heidelberger?

And yeah, it'd be a huge own goal for Irish rugby in general. I'd be amazed if something like that happened.

Tbh, I just feel sorry for Carbery. Nobody should have that sort of pressure put on them.

German team who qualified for the Challenged Cup but were disqualified because their German backer Bild is the Stade Francais Owner as well. Mohed Altrad the Montpellier owner was blocked from acquiring a majority stake in Gloucester last season too. Predictably enough this set some of the Welsh off on a round of whataboutery re the IRFU and SRU controlling all their teams.

Sure the Welsh central contracts mean they control their own teams partially now too.

Nah it wouldn't be considered full control.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:53 pm 
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Nah, but enough to shut them up. :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:58 pm 
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Indo team:

Possible Ireland team to face Australia: R Kearney; K Earls, G Ringrose, R Henshaw, J Stockdale; J Sexton, C Murray; C Healy, S Cronin, T Furlong; D Toner, J Ryan; P O'Mahony (capt), D Leavy, CJ Stander. Reps: TBC


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